Lactic Acid buildup?

There is no such thing as lactic acid build up in pitching. Follow Eric's advice and do additional searches here and around the web and you will find the current thinking. 

Following Eric's advice is wise. Also 600 MG of Motrin 1/2 hour before and after pitching. Instead of running poles run more explosive sprints. Off season strength and conditioning along with modified throwing program followed by in season structured routine in between starts that includes a modified strength and conditioning will set your pitcher up just fine.

I apologize in advance for not giving the advice your probably asking for but getting into training argument generally ends up with the same effect as banging your head against a concrete wall. So this is the advice I will give.

Be careful when researching training or nutrition related things on the internet. The large majority of what you will find is someone trying to sell you something (not necessarily bad), someone who subscribes to a fitness magazine and feels they know, and in my opinion the worst the person took a two day or two week personal trainer course giving them just enough knowledge to be dangerous.

Keep this in mind on free training advice. How much would you trust a plumber that pulled up to your house and said hey I would like to come in and fix all your plumbing problems for free. Most people that know what there talking about don't give that knowledge away for free. That knowledge is their most valuable commodity.

Also be careful with "research" that your not trained to read. There is a great deal of research studies done to prove a point rather then to find an answer. Those are almost always corrupted studies.

The one comment I will post on. That distance running for pitchers or baseball players is useless. This is only true if the player is a very well conditioned and trained athlete. For everyone else ( especially HS players) there is plenty of benefit.

Could you give more details on the benefits of Distance Running for pitchers/baseball players.How does it help?

Also, What is your definition of well conditioned/trained athletes?  

I think the original OP's question was "after pitching in a game, should a pitcher immediately jog to remove lactic acid from the arm to prevent soreness?".  I'd like to know if that's true.  I see lots of kids run after pitching to "prevent" soreness, but have never seen anything supporting this as true.  Can't hurt, but sounds like a myth.

Cressey certainly has a great reputation in this arena.  I have no personal expertise in the area, however  my sons work out weekly at Cressey Performance and they are really focused on this stuff.

Playball2011, sorry I'm on my phone and don't know how to reply with quote from the mobile site lol.

For a general run down. Athletic performance regardless of explosive or endurance related requires the use of oxygen. Your ability to take oxygen out of the air and get it to muscle is measure by your Vo2 uptake. The higher this is the more oxygen your body can take in and use to power your body. The more oxygen the body has essentially the more efficient and powerful the contraction.  Sooo distance running is the easiest way for an athlete to increase his or her Vo2 uptake. Fast pace distance running not light jogging. Now can it be done with just sprints. YES. A good trainer can do it with jumping jacks if they wanted to. However if you don't have access to one of these trainers (which IMO most HS athletes don't) then distance running is the best way to do it.

I would consider a well conditioned athlete anyone who's Vo2 uptake is near maximum threshold. A well trained one would be one who's base strength and conditioning is well rounded and defined. IMO too many athletes are trying to do sport or activity specific training when they haven't built up the base strong enough. Just because a pro is doing it doesn't mean a 16 year old should be doing it.

My take on the lactic acid question. Before you ask no I can't give reference to the studies. I remember a large majority of everything I read but for some crazy reason I can never remember where I read it.

I'm still undecided on this subject. I've read many studies on the negative effects and build up of lactic acid and the fact that most muscle soreness comes from this. I've read some that say no soreness comes from lactic acid. If you buy lactic acid creates soreness I can easily see the jump to believing it's what created the soreness in a pitchers arm. Although recent studies have supposedly shown that pitching doesn't increase lactic acid significantly enough to cause soreness. However one of those I read (if I read it right) showed half the increase with pitching that I believe running caused. Then the study concluded that it wasn't enough of an increase to be viable. However what I understand about lactic acid is that any increase no matter how small could cause discomfort or pain so I'm not sure how that conclusion was drawn.

Now as far a running after to help with arm soreness. If you buy the lactic acid theory then yes (at least IMO) a light run after will help remove some of the lactic acid. If you believe in micro-tears well taking a light jog to increase blood flow would still help. So I don't see the jump from it's not lactic acid to stop running.

Now with all that said. I know pitchers that run after and have no soreness. I know pitchers than run after and have soreness. I know pitchers that do not run and have no soreness and pitchers that do not run and have soreness. Which is why I still haven't made up my mind on it yet. It's also the problem with any sort of one size fits all training advice. Two different bodies can react totally different.

if you are throwing enough between starts you will have very little soreness after pitching.  Pitchers don't throw enough.  I don't mean pitching, I mean long toss.  As far as running, Pitching is all about explosion (similar to sprints).  Pitchers should use explosion in all their running, jumping etc drills.  Here's the issue.  Those who believe in long distance running for pitchers hear "you shouldn't run long distance as a pitcher" and interpret it as "you shouldn't run".  I believe in only explosion drills but I can tell you after a week of them your player will beg to go back to distance running as the drills will push him further than long distance running will.  With that said if you are using the no long distance as an excuse to not work out you are wrong as well.  Look at a sprinter, now look at a marathon runner.  Which one looks in better shape for baseball?  I'll take the sprinter everyday.

First of all, research "from 2009-2010" may be the most recent stuff out there. It takes a good amount of time for that to go from study to publish.

 

Lactic acid build up is a fallacy that somebody at some point made an issue about and it has since exploded. It simply will not die. But it seems oftentimes the ones who talk about the "lactic acid build up" are the same ones that don't understand why lactic acid is produced in the first place. Contrary to popular belief, lactic acid is not a bad thing! In fact, the moment you stand up and walk away from your computer, you will produce a small amount of lactic acid...

 

Distance running is WORTHLESS in baseball. In fact, distance running is WORTHLESS for anything except running! Even a sport like basketball or soccer does not benefit from distance running. They are better off with sprints and intervals.

 

Lastly, the baseball world may come crashing down in coming years as the idea that "icing is bad" continues to mount. I've got a book sitting here talking about that and hopefully I'm able to get it read in the near future. There are many medical professionals moving away from the use of ice...

Ice Ice Ice and condition on your days off!

I was a huge believer in icing until hearing some newer research a year ago from Wolforth he felt it wasn't "bad" but didn't help.  I have then read some research that says it slows the healing process and unless it is an injury you should not ice.  My son starting taking 2 Advil just before he pitched and no ice afterwards.  When he used to ice he was always saying his arm was tight the day after pitching.  Now with no ice he is seldom sore at all.  As a matter of fact he tends to get sore now only if he isn't long tossing enough.

He can quit the Advil too and save his internal organs...

It makes my head spin when I come across coaches who still advocate for long distance running. 

 

It serves no purpose in baseball, at all.

Well I advocate some long distance running for ALL athletes.  But I'm not a coach well not a baseball one. I do teach hitting but that's IMO is not a coach. So no my opinion isn't biased on coaching HS, nor reading magazines, and definitely not the internet. It comes from my bachelors in kinesiology and my masters in exercise science. Anyway the head banging has started so I'm out of the conversation.

To the OP. Wether or not running will help you it sure as heck won't hurt you. Good luck.

Taking a few Motrin or Advil (ibuprofen) has no (none, zero) anti inflammatory effect. It is a mild pain killer, but Tylenol is easier to take for a pain killer since you can take it on an empty stomach, but bad for the fans in the stands since you shouldn't mix acetaminophen with alcohol. 

 

Running for pitchers for leg strength to push of the rubber and stabilize the trunk at landing. 

 

Runner after pitcher after a works  is for the aerobic exercise that gets the blood pumping throughout the body and washes out some lactic acid and brings in nutrients. 

 

 I'm bowing out of this one, I've argued this way too many times on this site, with numerous scientific examples, proving why the exact opposite of this is true. If someone else would like to run with it, go ahead. Good luck. 

 

Ice or no ice?

Advil or Tylenol or none? 

Long distance running or sprints?  

My head is spinning. 

Calgon take me away! 

Lactic Acid comes from strenuous exercise, such as weight lifting. It causes the burning sensation one feels when going to the limit in the gym. It has not been found to have any correlation to muscle soreness the next day. DOMS, as it is referred to, delayed onset muscle soreness, is best prevented by stretching and nutrition. Long distance running, or  running in general has no effect on next day muscle soreness. Ice ,is used in the early treatment of an injury or during treatment of such injury, not as a way to rid, or prevent muscle soreness. Instead of stretching the muscle to relieve it ice shrinks and stiffens muscle and tendons.

thanks for all the opinions. 

Even though my degree is not in exercise science or related field and I might not be trained to read research I've learned a lot here. 

I'm going to continue following Cressey , only have son ice if pain(which is working for him), long toss on conservative schedule, light warmup jogging before game, and continue protein after game/workout, and hope for the best. 

IMO the best thing for any athlete is to stay in good shape the entire yr so when their season sport begins they will be ready and not have to deal w sore muscles, poss injuries from not being ready.

if anyone hears new data please pass along. 

I think it's wise to avoid absolute positions in general, and in particular when talking about subjects in this thread. The current movement is away from icing after games. I tend to believe that this is correct and that icing has been overrated and overused. But like most things in baseball and in life, it's situational and individual.  No one has THE answer... and no approach is necessarily dead wrong to right. What is "known" to be fact via scientific examples today can become fiction quickly.  Nothing has been proven to be true or false on the subject of post game icing... likewise how much and what types of running... Likewise pitch counts. Pitchers threw massive total innings and total pitches every year for decades...did and didn't ice, jogged poles, and enjoyed pre game breakfasts of chipped beef and scotch. For a long period, the belief system swung toward pitchers throwing less and less... so there were years of guys not throwing much and then heating it up and going max effort sporadically at showcases, key games, and such. That never made much sense, but most "experts" cited all the good science supporting this approach to the exclusion of all others. Now prevailing wisdom swings toward throwing more often and at higher intensity. So I think the best approach is to be informed, stay informed, know your player, and learn what is most effective for him. One size rarely fits all.

 

My son has never liked icing his arm and rarely does so during the summer, though I notice he always ices after pitching HS games, as do all our HS pitchers. Think it might have something to do with getting wrapped up by the trainers while girls are still within eyeshot. Now that's an irrefutable scientific reason for post game icing.  

Your probably right.

I'm with you JH some people already know everything and therefore never learn anything new no matter how much proof you have.

Oldmanmoses, well said!!!

It's definitely a major plus when the athletic trainer is a good looking female... unfortunately for my baseball players, they don't have that luxury...