NCAA to grant an additional year of eligibility

jonsmith posted:

So my son is a junior (2021) at a D1 school in the MAC.  Assuming he graduates next year, I'm assuming he could come back as a grad player, in 2022 He currently receives a partial scholarship (like most) and the balance is covered with academic money.  I'm guessing that if he comes back, he would need to come up with the $ for difference between his athletic scholarship, including the increase cost of grad classes, as his undergrad scholarship would be done? (right?)  Lots of time to think about it. Just curious if anyone has a thought on this. Wondering how much financial sense does it make to come back for another year for baseball when not really pursuing a grad degree.  He has a slight possibility of being drafted in late rounds RHP 93-95 FB 6'3" 225 lbs.

Dang, with those measurables, you don’t think he had a chance to be drafted this year?  Not to rub it in, but losing his junior year probably hurt him pretty hard

Chico Escuela posted:

Has there been an announcement that D3 players will get an extra year of eligibility, too?  In that world, there aren't scholarship limits to contend with, and not many players who are thinking seriously about the draft.

 

Yes, DIII extended a year of eligibility to everyone in a spring sport. I'd think this is mostly symbolic, since a lot of those schools don't really have 5th year players, though you can always plan for grad school early.

Eokerholm posted:

I think you will see more guys try to draft out of high school now than deal with this mess and the extra competition and reduced playing opportunity and time. If that is the case or happens. 

Why a blanket extra year for all 4 classes?

It isn’t like the MLB isn’t going to draft this year. I think the seniors came back for a reason. The didn't draft or didn't like their slot.  They shouldn’t need another year. Juniors hoping to draft this year still have a chance to draft this or go back and draft after their senior. Sophomores, aren't affected. Freshman, aren't affected. Red Shirt Seniors, definitely not affected.

Yes, losing the remaining of the season sucks, BUT everyone got the benefit of fall ball and prep and spring season prep. Weight room, nutrition, pitching/batting coach.... 

How many team roster spots have seniors on them? Typically not many. And they typically finish school/baseball and try to draft and/or more likely finish up and get a job. You’re going to create a 4 year problem for the small number of seniors who also had an opportunity to draft last year but chose not to. There are still or would be MLB workouts, etc.....   

I don’t get it.... help me understand this a bit better?

blanket extra year is due to an existing clause in the eligibility handbook which states nonmedical hardship waivers will be considered for players who are unable to participate with no more than participation in 30% of a teams scheduled spring games due to "circumstances beyond the student-athletes control"...I would think they (NCAA) would just use this as support for the approval given a player still remained within its "four out of five years" clause.  My sons a JUCO soph, so not sure how this would impact him, but the season postponement definitely has thrown a wrench in the seasons plans.

Eligibility to play another year isn't the same as required to get a roster spot.  Every single player, incoming and returning, will have to prove he deserves a spot next year.  I figure that the returning seniors will boost the squad numbers in the fall and cuts will have to be made by spring.  Most budgets can't absorb more than normal roster count, so I don't expect the cap to be increased.

I don't think the limits will go up because the AD's will not agree to it.  They cannot afford it or want to afford it, even P5's.  Not saying P5's can't but won't want to.  They would have to buy new uniforms and the extra players would make the costs go up.  Plus they really don't need them.  You can't get 35 players playing time so you sure wouldn't be able to get 40 playing time.  As someone suggested, they may give you the ability to travel with 30 or all 35 but that is about all.  I think for four years they will expand the scholarship numbers because the SEC is required to keep everyone for their full time on scholarship so unless they make a provision they cannot cut them and their scholarship unless the player on scholarship chooses to leave.  But who knows.  it may change tomorrow or Tuesday, you get the point.

This is what maturity looks like.

https://twitter.com/treymongru.../1239324735592415236

This was fairly close to the conversation going on between my son and his other senior teammates when I hung out with a few of them last week after his surgery.  A few are actually more actively exploring graduate school choices that might allow them to play (and my son already was), but realistically it's a lot more likely, especially for DIII guys, to just move on with their lives.

Some of son's teammates are likely to stay in MN, where townball is a big deal still, so there are also amateur opportunities to keep playing.

I know there are lots of conversations going on all at D3 schools about the extra year, plus 1 MBA are being looked at, adding a 2nd major and blowing it up fast, adding a minor and so forth. I know some that at are considering transfers etc. 

For 2019 this could not have worked out any better. He had about 12 or so innings out of the bullpen as a true freshman and was set to make his debut as a weekend starter in what would have been yesterday's series finale. With the new 2020 draft rules he would've been a draft eligible sophomore - and now he'll be a draft eligible freshman next season. Assuming he doesn't get drafted and remains a contributor on the team he'll be able to milk a year or two of grad school out of the situation at the very least. 

That being said, it's not pretty for everybody - in fact it's only going to get uglier, not just for the guys who were in their last year of eligibility, but redshirt juniors, early grads, and older guys on the roster. Even if the scholarship limit were bumped from 11.7, who is funding this? How are 50 guys going to fit on a roster? Schools who were not fully funded to begin with? Guys who are free to transfer as grad transfers?

Truth is that the seniors who are not potential pros or key contributors are not going to be welcomed back. And it sucks, but baseball was never in the cards moving forward and they likely need to start thinking about life without baseball. Unless I had a very specific role on the team and grad school was a legitimate option I would likely be walking away as well. I know two of the seniors on our team have already informed everybody they won't be coming back. They are starters, but not pro prospects and would rather die of coronavirus than spend another summer living with a host family playing in a summer league halfway across the country. 

The only way I see this working is if the NCAA says all incoming freshmen must redshirt, the same way freshmen had to sit out years ago. But there is still the scholarship issue. 

I can’t understand why redshirting all freshmen is the only option?  If that were in play, I’m guessing most kids who have a draft option go, whether it’s the round they wanted or not, they would really consider it.  If you say most seniors will leave, there is no reason to redshirt all the freshmen.  If they were crazy pro options, they would have gone as juniors unless there was an injury.

son just received the official email from his AD concerning the season cancellation at his JUCO...he will retain his soph status, but now season ending will only make it that much more difficult in the recruiting process...looks like recruiting will be turned to a virtual event as well.

oh another complication is this is housing time of year, apartments are being rented, new roommate groups established, kids being sent home and kids not knowing if or who is coming back next year makes it even more of Shit show then it typically is. Certainly not a major item but just adds to the fun...

PABaseball posted:

 

The only way I see this working is if the NCAA says all incoming freshmen must redshirt, the same way freshmen had to sit out years ago. But there is still the scholarship issue. 

And then do what with 2021's when its there time, Redshirt them too? It would just keep rolling forward that way as you are just building up a backlog of players unless I misunderstand what you mean.  What is the situation you are referencing from years ago where this happened?  Would love to read up on that.

Gunner Mack Jr. posted:

PABaseball posted:

 

The only way I see this working is if the NCAA says all incoming freshmen must redshirt, the same way freshmen had to sit out years ago. But there is still the scholarship issue. 

And then do what with 2021's when its there time, Redshirt them too? It would just keep rolling forward that way as you are just building up a backlog of players unless I misunderstand what you mean.  What is the situation you are referencing from years ago where this happened?  Would love to read up on that.

Used to be freshman could not play college athletics, only practice. 1950’s/60’s. 

if you know the actual date this changed, you are older than me!

phillyinNJ posted:

son just received the official email from his AD concerning the season cancellation at his JUCO...he will retain his soph status, but now season ending will only make it that much more difficult in the recruiting process...looks like recruiting will be turned to a virtual event as well.

How does that work with JUCO's?  I assume all Sophomore's have to transfer out due to being done with their hours but get an extra year at the next level? 

Ok, so I went through each of the PG Top 25 schools for the 2020 Recruiting class's rosters and counted the exisiting roster spots that are Senior or RS-Seniors.

Average across the top 25 schools is only 3.64. I would bet if I went to the top 100 it would get down closer to 3.0  

• So you're screwing with programs and the next 4 years of baseball for players and recruits for 3-4 guys that could have drafted as Juniors - if they were good or healthy enough.
• They've have 3+ years to prove their worth and develop their craft.
• They could still do a showcase and/or combine or something for the MLB draft to make up for the shorten season for those Seniors (RS and regular).
• This year's Juniors can still draft (in showcase/combine or not) and/or return for their normal Senior Year. So they're not affected.
• Sophomores and Freshman are/were not affected either . Those that got to play got some reps, those that didn't, didn't - but EVERYONE across ALL 4-5 CLASSES got the benefit of education, nutrition, strength training, fall ball and prep, spring ball prep, and the 15-17 games that were played this season.
• They still got the last 8 months of instruction and work with a pitching coach, hitting coach, batting coach and head coach.
• This year was not lost or not valueable.

Most of the seniors should have been planing for a job and/or graduate school by now as their primary or back up plan knowing their time was going to be up.  

Why make such a mess of all of this? Move the Draft to the end of summer (so Juniors can draft if they want, or return to school.....and give them the summer to showcase and combine. No need to mess with ALL classes and the next 4 years of baseball, programs, recruiting, etc. 

Giving them another year of eligibility doesn't guarantee them a roster spot either. There are cuts every year that are made. 

Not everyone is on scholarship and for some schools that barely helps, so coming up with another year's worth of tuition is an additional hardship on players/families, for guys that if they were good enough, would/could/should have drafted already and were planning on it for a better slot this year or just moving on.

For example. When we sat down with Coach O'Connor at UVA on 11/1, if my son would have gotten their last arm slot, he told us he was practically out of money. So if he got any money it would only be 25%. Even after 25% and being out of state, across 4 years of school (at UVA you have to graduate in 4) that would be over $135,000 in loans.

So now a senior at UVA has to go to graduate school for their 5th year of eligibility. Now they'll get 2 degrees on the school and their dime now given time to graduate from grad school too, if they red shirted.

I like the summer draft idea posted online and the showcase/combine to give the scouts and guys time to show their stuff, be seen and draft before the Juniors have to return to campus.

My so so school has 8 SR or R-SR on the current roster.  Big impact here.

Agreed for your program, however, if they move draft to August before school starts they all will have a chance to showcase/combine and then decide and move on and not incur another year of school or delay the real world if they don’t draft...

And with just 3 months before Omaha and draft, I would have hoped they had back up plans in place...

Nothing is guaranteed in life but death and taxes. No one expects to get laid off, divorced, or cancer. Life happens....

May be seniors only, according to a recent Kendall Rogers tweet

I have a D3 Freshman and a 2021 HS coming off an injury and hoping to get recruited.  He was on track prior to injury and rehabbed and is back stronger than ever.  Life is interesting around the house to say the least.

I would think those that have a previous redshirt (medical or nonmedical) wouldn't receive another year, would they?  giving them 6 total years?  will be interesting to see what the final specifics are on this once the dust settles.

Eokerholm posted:

Ok, so I went through each of the PG Top 25 schools for the 2020 Recruiting class's rosters and counted the exisiting roster spots that are Senior or RS-Seniors.

Average across the top 25 schools is only 3.64. I would bet if I went to the top 100 it would get down closer to 3.0  

Why do you think the average would decrease if you expanded? I actually would guess the # of seniors and rs-seniors increases at mid-major and lower D1s. Those rosters often have a lot of juco transfers, redshirts, and undraftable upperclassmen. My 2020 is headed to one such school, and they had maybe 11 this season (no idea yet how many desire to return). I heard from another mid-major D1 with 7 seniors that 5 are hoping to return. 

I was just guessing because I didn’t want to count all 100 or check other conferences.  Buy dayum....still doesn’t make sense to me. I still think this is just a senior thing and not everyone.  Just because they’re eligible doesn’t mean they’ll get a spot. 

I’m sure and hope it will all work out

d-mac posted:

phillyinNJ posted:

son just received the official email from his AD concerning the season cancellation at his JUCO...he will retain his soph status, but now season ending will only make it that much more difficult in the recruiting process...looks like recruiting will be turned to a virtual event as well.

How does that work with JUCO's?  I assume all Sophomore's have to transfer out due to being done with their hours but get an extra year at the next level? 

JuCo sophs will have the option to come back for a 3rd year if they choose to. At my sons school a couple are considering doing that b/c they are coming off injuries, are just now healthy, and don’t yet have a four year school to go to. Obviously there are academic challenges that go along with spending 3 years at a JuCo and I wouldn’t recommend that anyone do that under normal circumstances. 

adbono posted:

d-mac posted:

phillyinNJ posted:

son just received the official email from his AD concerning the season cancellation at his JUCO...he will retain his soph status, but now season ending will only make it that much more difficult in the recruiting process...looks like recruiting will be turned to a virtual event as well.

How does that work with JUCO's?  I assume all Sophomore's have to transfer out due to being done with their hours but get an extra year at the next level? 

JuCo sophs will have the option to come back for a 3rd year if they choose to. At my sons school a couple are considering doing that b/c they are coming off injuries, are just now healthy, and don’t yet have a four year school to go to. Obviously there are academic challenges that go along with spending 3 years at a JuCo and I wouldn’t recommend that anyone do that under normal circumstances. 

As the CCCAA in CA isn't governed by the national Juco's, all the California Juco's are still in the waiting game.  Season has not been canceled, but merely postponed.  This is good in that hope for this season still remains (albeit diminishing daily), but bad in that there has been no official ruling on status of players and whether they will also be given a "do-over".   Gotta believe they eventually will.  At least my sophomore pitcher surely hopes so.  

For any who might be interested, we're trying to keep our clients and subscribers updated on new developments through our weekly email newsletter, our Informed Athlete Facebook page, and our Twitter account, @InformedAthlete.  

NCAA Division II has already given clear guidance to their member schools that any spring sport athlete who had their season cancelled due to COVID-19 can have another season of eligibility.  (I've been shown a copy of what Division II sent out to each school.)

I haven't seen guidance from NCAA Division III yet that is as clear and detailed as Division II.

And, Division I has not finalized their guidance on this issue yet.  They're still seeking input from the D1 conferences across the country, or least they were as of yesterday morning.

Finally, I was a guest on a podcast this week in which I and host Geoff Rottmayer talked about the impact of this situation on college athletes - not just in baseball but for all spring sports - at the two and four-year level, as well as on high school recruits.  You can find the podcast here: https://baseballawakening.podbean.com/

latebloomer21 posted:

adbono posted:

d-mac posted:

phillyinNJ posted:

son just received the official email from his AD concerning the season cancellation at his JUCO...he will retain his soph status, but now season ending will only make it that much more difficult in the recruiting process...looks like recruiting will be turned to a virtual event as well.

How does that work with JUCO's?  I assume all Sophomore's have to transfer out due to being done with their hours but get an extra year at the next level? 

JuCo sophs will have the option to come back for a 3rd year if they choose to. At my sons school a couple are considering doing that b/c they are coming off injuries, are just now healthy, and don’t yet have a four year school to go to. Obviously there are academic challenges that go along with spending 3 years at a JuCo and I wouldn’t recommend that anyone do that under normal circumstances. 

As the CCCAA in CA isn't governed by the national Juco's, all the California Juco's are still in the waiting game.  Season has not been canceled, but merely postponed.  This is good in that hope for this season still remains (albeit diminishing daily), but bad in that there has been no official ruling on status of players and whether they will also be given a "do-over".   Gotta believe they eventually will.  At least my sophomore pitcher surely hopes so.  

Season is now cancelled. Everyone gets their year back (CCCAA).

Rick at Informed Athlete posted:

...

NCAA Division II has already given clear guidance to their member schools that any spring sport athlete who had their season cancelled due to COVID-19 can have another season of eligibility.  (I've been shown a copy of what Division II sent out to each school.)

...

 

Apparently DII just changed their minds, and only Seniors will get another year of eligibility.

I can't see any way this is fair...

LHP's Roady posted:

latebloomer21 posted:

adbono posted:

d-mac posted:

phillyinNJ posted:

son just received the official email from his AD concerning the season cancellation at his JUCO...he will retain his soph status, but now season ending will only make it that much more difficult in the recruiting process...looks like recruiting will be turned to a virtual event as well.

How does that work with JUCO's?  I assume all Sophomore's have to transfer out due to being done with their hours but get an extra year at the next level? 

JuCo sophs will have the option to come back for a 3rd year if they choose to. At my sons school a couple are considering doing that b/c they are coming off injuries, are just now healthy, and don’t yet have a four year school to go to. Obviously there are academic challenges that go along with spending 3 years at a JuCo and I wouldn’t recommend that anyone do that under normal circumstances. 

As the CCCAA in CA isn't governed by the national Juco's, all the California Juco's are still in the waiting game.  Season has not been canceled, but merely postponed.  This is good in that hope for this season still remains (albeit diminishing daily), but bad in that there has been no official ruling on status of players and whether they will also be given a "do-over".   Gotta believe they eventually will.  At least my sophomore pitcher surely hopes so.  

Season is now cancelled. Everyone gets their year back (CCCAA).

 

I hope you are right, but its not showing on their website nor their twitter feed.  

Rick at Informed Athlete posted:

For any who might be interested, we're trying to keep our clients and subscribers updated on new developments through our weekly email newsletter, our Informed Athlete Facebook page, and our Twitter account, @InformedAthlete.  

NCAA Division II has already given clear guidance to their member schools that any spring sport athlete who had their season cancelled due to COVID-19 can have another season of eligibility.  (I've been shown a copy of what Division II sent out to each school.)

I haven't seen guidance from NCAA Division III yet that is as clear and detailed as Division II.

And, Division I has not finalized their guidance on this issue yet.  They're still seeking input from the D1 conferences across the country, or least they were as of yesterday morning.

Finally, I was a guest on a podcast this week in which I and host Geoff Rottmayer talked about the impact of this situation on college athletes - not just in baseball but for all spring sports - at the two and four-year level, as well as on high school recruits.  You can find the podcast here: https://baseballawakening.podbean.com/

Thank you for this post and for the link to the podcast. I listened to it and learned something that specifically applies to my son’s situation. Would not have known it otherwise and it is helpful to know now as opposed to later. 

T_Thomas, see the answer I just posted to your question in the other thread.  

The CCCAA Twitter account is now showing through a link to their website that all spring sport seasons are cancelled and that student-athletes will have their season of competition restored. 

The NCAA has not yet determined whether they will be revising any of their rules regarding transfers from two-year colleges.  

adbono posted:

d-mac posted:

phillyinNJ posted:

son just received the official email from his AD concerning the season cancellation at his JUCO...he will retain his soph status, but now season ending will only make it that much more difficult in the recruiting process...looks like recruiting will be turned to a virtual event as well.

How does that work with JUCO's?  I assume all Sophomore's have to transfer out due to being done with their hours but get an extra year at the next level? 

JuCo sophs will have the option to come back for a 3rd year if they choose to. At my sons school a couple are considering doing that b/c they are coming off injuries, are just now healthy, and don’t yet have a four year school to go to. Obviously there are academic challenges that go along with spending 3 years at a JuCo and I wouldn’t recommend that anyone do that under normal circumstances. 

My son is looking elsewhere...he retained his soph eligibility and graduates with his AS in may, so as long as he can find a place to play and fits academically, he will be moving to a four year this fall.

So do they come back as a redshirt or their current class?

My son, who is committed to a Patriot League team got a call from the RC Friday letting him know none of the Seniors will return because they all have jobs.  It was a relief to hear it and was what we suspected. The school prides itself on graduates having jobs before leaving school. This was one of the things that drew us to the school. That and the high starting salaries for most grads!

Kimb27 posted:

My son, who is committed to a Patriot League team got a call from the RC Friday letting him know none of the Seniors will return because they all have jobs.  It was a relief to hear it and was what we suspected. The school prides itself on graduates having jobs before leaving school. This was one of the things that drew us to the school. That and the high starting salaries for most grads!

That is good news (for your son and for the seniors).  But keep in mind:  Given the state of the economy, some of those job offers may be withdrawn between now and this summer.  During the 2008 recession, grad school enrollments grew quite a bit.  This may or may not affect your son's future college (and I hope it doesn't), but I expect some graduating seniors may find returning to school looks more attractive than it might have even a month ago. 

Chico you may be right. But, grad school app deadlines have passed I think. So, that could be a problem, right?

Kimb27 posted:

Chico you may be right. But, grad school app deadlines have passed I think. So, that could be a problem, right?

In most cases, I would think that's true.  But there are options such as waiting to get one's bachelor's degree and enrolling in the fall to work on a second major or a minor, and then starting grad school in the spring semester.  Or some programs might make space in a master's program for a good student who was suddenly jobless. 

I'm not trying to be alarmist.  Whatever happens, I assume your son will enter college this fall expecting to have to compete for roster space, and whether he is competing with any 5th-year seniors is beyond his control anyhow.  My son is also starting college in 2020.  I have told him he may be playing fall ball with some 23-year-olds that he didn't expect to see on the field.  He told me it was no big deal--which is exactly what he ought to say (even if his old man is a little bit concerned).

c2019 posted:

So do they come back as a redshirt or their current class?

I’m guessing they would use the redshirt term. A player has been referenced in the past by redshirt (eligibility year) since his academic year may be different. 

However if a student is in his third year of academic attendance but on track to graduate he’s just called a junior athletically.