No sports for Bowdoin until 2021

friends sent that to us this afternoon, as we have a soccer playing friend who is devastated.  One son had an offer for baseball and interest in hockey there.  Unclear if the rest of the NESCAC conference will follow.  

This is really tough news for all.  

students living off campus will not be permitted to participate in on-campus workouts

Is that a money grab?  I don’t like it!

Very pleased my daughter chose to NOT play hockey at Bowdoin...not saying her season won't be effected where she is attending/playing but at least it is not cancelled...yet?

@RoadRunner posted:

students living off campus will not be permitted to participate in on-campus workouts

Is that a money grab?  I don’t like it!

Most students are required to live on campus ...

An inclusive and dynamic residential community is a central element of the Bowdoin experience. All first-year and sophomore students are required to live on campus. However, due to fluctuations in enrollment numbers and changing on-campus capacity, the College does allow a limited number of juniors and seniors to live off campus. These students typically live in houses or apartments in close proximity to the campus that are neither owned nor managed by Bowdoin.

Wow.  Hope this isn't the first domino.

@RJM posted:

Most students are required to live on campus ...

An inclusive and dynamic residential community is a central element of the Bowdoin experience. All first-year and sophomore students are required to live on campus. However, due to fluctuations in enrollment numbers and changing on-campus capacity, the College does allow a limited number of juniors and seniors to live off campus. These students typically live in houses or apartments in close proximity to the campus that are neither owned nor managed by Bowdoin.

This is typical for many schools. However, I’ve never heard of excluding athletes that live off campus. 

Bowdoin: First years, transfers, and few seniors will be on campus, others will remain at home. It will be hybrid online learning for the first semester.  This drove dropping fall and winter sports for the 2020 season.

Middlebury just released a statement yesterday: all classes will be back to the school Sept 8, eliminated fall break, end the first semester Nov 20, virtual classroom for a week then online exams. So, it will be a long Dec break.  Their Jterm (one class for the month of Feb) is at risk as well. Sounds like winter sports could be at risk. 

Isn't Bowdoin D1 for hockey? 

no D3 for hockey, like all the other NESCAC schools but all very competitive usually.  

I hope the NESCAC schools aren't in lockstep athletically, but it wouldn't surprise me if they are.  I know Amherst's schedule this fall is roughly the same as Middlebury's.

I wonder how much of Bowdoin’s decision is media induced. The fear factor in Maine has been fierce led by the governor and hammers home by the one news media organization in the state.

All the papers are owned by the same company. From day one we’ve been barraged with a NYC sized COVID problem in Maine. The number of people afraid to go anywhere is incredible. It’s been hammered home when people from Massachusetts come to Maine we’re all going to die.

Ironically, while the governor and the media are playing up the death march visitmaine.com ads are playing on Massachusetts tv hourly.

Things not looking great at Amherst for fall sports and for the whole year, perhaps. Which realistically may apply to all NESCAC schools, and probably every D3 in the NE.

Seems there's no room for EVERYONE to return in the fall and be safe so parents and students are being surveyed about their preferences. looks like first years may have preference to be on=campus, which I understand but does that mean the seniors don't get any time on campus with their cohort their whole senior year?  And if kids can't be on campus how can they play?

I'm thinking about a gap year for my guys, frankly.  On-line for liberal arts schools is purely half-assed academically, and whole-assed socially and athletically.  Why not give Covid a year to settle down and then back at it on campus in Fall 2021, assuming an effective vaccine is in place.  Big assumption, I know, but kids don't need to rush through this part of their lives  just to graduate into an iffy job market.

On the other hand, my rising college senior is working on line for his internship at a private equity firm. If they like him and he likes them (which is really hard to know since EVERY contact with them, interviews, hiring meeting, current training, everything has been via zoom, FaceTime, and Skype) should he just go ahead, finish his degree, and plunge into full adulthood.

I am the absolute worst person to be giving that advice.  I resisted adulthood kicking and screaming until I got married at 40.  Anyone care to step in and parent my boys for me?  I promise I'll stay in touch.

Smoke, as you know we're kicking that issue around here as well.

Is all the cool stuff you do on gap years still happening?

My kid really doesn't want to attend online, and is highly dubious of some sort of "in-person light" program where there is no real social life.  My stance has been  -- if you have a good, in-person internship or even a good in-person job, sure, take the fall off.  But if you don't, hang in there and get your degree ASAP and start your career if you can.  If the job market sucks when you graduate, then go to grad school (and play another year of baseball!) or maybe do another internship.  Sounds like your senior has a great thing going, so I'd say the same to him.  

Our school situation is a little different, I think. If the state lets them they will have most kids on campus, from what they're saying.  In a more urban area than your two guys are in, the school is also able to rent a lot of nearby housing so that they can decrease the dorm density.  With a warm climate and class sizes that are already really small, they can teach small groups in person, outside, pretty much year round.  I think they are working through their plans very well and very thoroughly, but if things continue to trend the wong way this summer, it may all be moot.

@smokeminside posted:

 

I'm thinking about a gap year for my guys, frankly.  

 

 

About a dozen of my friends took time off during undergrad (some even voluntarily)...every single one benefited greatly from the experience.

It's an excellent question about whether typical gap year experiences are even available.

Does surfing count?

The biggest problem with sending kids back to college in the fall is convincing them they can’t have a social life even if places are open. I’ve been out to eat six times in the past two and a half weeks. But it’s been outside, not in prime time and not in crowded places. 

There is an article in the WSJ today the biggest obstacle to sports coming back is bars and clubs. The pro athletes and college athletes know they’re not vulnerable to die. So many are getting out. And they’re getting COVID. 

@RJM posted:

The biggest problem with sending kids back to college in the fall is convincing them they can’t have a social life even if places are open.

I think you have to close campus. If campus is dry, good luck with that.  You ban parties of more than a certain number of  people.  10?  20? Outdoors only.  And maybe that group has to be from the same dorm or floor or whatever to make tracing contacts easier when people do get sick. 

I’ve been in three COVID trace lines a few levels down. All three traced back to friends of my friend’s young adult kids. The closest I came to getting COVID is a friend’s daughter got it. My friend tested negative. Only one of four kids in the COVID  trace lines who tested positive actually got sick. Ironically, he works for Abbott Labs. For those who may not know Abbott Labs makes the COVID test.

I’ll bet most people have been in COVID trace lines and were never aware because people were asymptomatic and not tested. 

@JCG posted:

I think you have to close campus. If campus is dry, good luck with that.  You ban parties of more than a certain number of  people.  10?  20? Outdoors only.  And maybe that group has to be from the same dorm or floor or whatever to make tracing contacts easier when people do get sick. 

How do you enforce a ban on parties?  You might have some success inside dorms, maybe even at on-campus apartments and Greek houses.  But at most schools, at least some students live off campus.  IMO, college kids will find a way to socialize (and drink, and generally make a mockery of any social distancing rules).

As for a gap year:  My kids will be a freshman and a junior in college this year.  Neither wants to spend the semester online-only, so I suggested maybe they take some time off from school.  Their response was emphatic:  "Online classes are better than nothing, and what else would we do?"  I think gap years are a great idea for a lot of kids--in normal times.  But right now very few countries' borders are open for travel or study, good jobs are scarce--online classes may be the least worst option for this fall.

Chico - I was talking about small LAC's like my son's.  94% of students where he is live on campus.  Small campus, plenty of security people and staff outside, plus resident staff inside -- I think it can be done. Not perfectly but well enough.  Clearly state schools with large numbers off campus are a different story.  I'm glad  my older son is done with UCSB -- tens of thousands of kids are packed into a tiny apartments and houses in a tiny beach town next to campus.  Not a manageable environment.

BTW  - have folks seen the recent news about the "pool testing" strategy being considered by the govt?  It sounds like a potentially useful tool for schools of all levels and types.

I agree you can forget about 'banning parties'.  I don't think I went to a single college party that was legal, as I was a minor at all of them (only had one month of being of legal drinking age before graduating).  I will also tell you that I would not have cared a bit about covid.  The only time a healthy kid will care about covid is when they have it or they can use it to get out of something.  It is up to the parents to police it, and when they are out of the house, you can forget it.

JCG, the presence of fewer temptations in a small town can only help; but unless colleges literally lock students in their rooms, most plans for social distancing on campus seem like wishful thinking to me. 

"Risky behavior" peaks in the late teens and early twenties:  https://www.nytimes.com/2020/0...archResultPosition=7   The campus combo of hormones and not-fully-developed prefrontal cortices poses a truly formidable obstacle.  (And consider how poorly many adults have taken requirements to wear masks and avoid large gatherings.) 

I also think that if a school disciplines students for partying (especially off campus), some parents are going to complain.  Forcefully.  I'm not saying those parents would be justified, but the pressure they will bring to bear on administrators is going to be an issue.  "Snowplow parents" gonna snowplow... 

Yep.  Kids all know that social distancing won't work.  Professors know too, that's why they don't want to teach in-person.  And, there is nothing to do for a gap year.  I really want my son to go back to his campus, even if all his classes are online.  He needs to be around other students who are working on classes. 

Frankly, the universities' focus on social distancing and disinfecting is a waste of time and money, especially for schools with a lot of off-campus students.  What they should be doing is planning to convert gyms and other large spaces into wards for students who test positive.  I agree that most won't get very sick (those with pre-existing conditions are, of course, in a separate group), and you can't convince them otherwise.

Several months ago, I posted that I would think the resident population of college towns would be worried about a big influx of germy students.  Someone countered that they would rather keep their jobs.  I think that is true.  Large universities in small towns are huge economic drivers.

Right now the big concern about young people getting COVID is that they will infect old people and the vulnerable.  If the young people have the sense to wear masks in the presence of older and vulnerable people, at least, then keeping them all grouped together at colleges sounds like a reasonable idea.

Besides, public schools will be going back, they have to; there's a lot of pressure from parents who need the child care. 

As for college sports, that's a whole different issue.  The benefit of D3s is that football isn't such a financial factor.

@anotherparent, I can't decide whether I think gathering hundreds or thousands of college kids together as a potential reservoir of infected (even if largely asymptomatic) people is going to be the best available strategy.  It's a potential tragedy for staff and faculty, some of whom will not be able to avoid spending a good deal of time around students.  Also a potential tragedy for other non-students in the community.  But those same thousands of kids living at home aren't going to socially distance there either, I realize.  

I agree that if you ask someone today whether they are willing to take on these risks for the sake of their jobs, many would say "yes."  But I also think those same folks will feel very differently if they or someone they care about is hospitalized.  Right now, much of the willingness to bear the risk rests on an assumption that there won't be any serious costs.

I expect to send my kids off to college in August.  I have no idea what the fall will bring though.

What a pickle we are all in.  My senior's school is going to switch to quarters (from semesters) and have a rotation of students on campus. Not super clear how they are going to handle kids that live in a house next to campus (my son is in that group).  My Daughter's big state school is welcoming everyone back to campus but half her classes are online and the other half are in person.  She's moving into her sorority house in August and rush will be done both virtually and in person.  She will end the semester at Thanksgiving time and not go back until Feb - online finals.

Talked to my son about a gap year and he said no unless all his friends and teammates also take the year off...  Can't blame him. So we are going to muddle through. The administration is talking about spring sports happening but fall are in question.  However we think the baseball season will be about 20-25 games and not 30 -- with no Spring Break trip.  Just really want his last year of baseball to happen.  He (and I'd) be so disappointed if this is how he is forced to hang up his cleats.

I'm starting to see some HA schools take this route and it really sucks for their student athletes, especially when other schools plan on going back normally. If you're at a NESCAC your hands are tied as an athlete. There is very little upwards mobility academically, and even if you were to go Ivy it's likely that level of competition is out of reach as well. 

Then again, everybody thought these schools were being dramatic the first time around. Could be the same thing over again where there are no fall sports. Depending on who you ask, they should start tomorrow or everything should be cancelled until fall 2022. 

The sports programs bringing back players now are the laboratory for everyone else.  I saw yesterday that 37 of Clemson's football players have now tested positive, no hospitalizations; Texas Tech's football team has 23 cases so far.  It's not even July.  At Kansas State, it was because a group played video games in someone's room, while they were waiting for test results, and other group went out to bars.  So, typical stuff students do, not even from athletic activity.  Let's hope someone is keeping a close medical eye on those groups, it will give us more data about consequences. 

What's interesting about summer baseball is that there are so few leagues playing, and all are private organizations, so the level of testing and information is most likely non-existent.  I wonder if they will even tell anyone if players test positive?  That, too, would be really useful data to have, about a much more physically distanced sport.  However, covid information information impacts their business, so I would think they have an incentive to have as little info as possible.  Indiana has been pretty proactive about random testing, I wonder if anyone there is keeping an eye on their summer league?

My understanding is that NCAA football workouts to date have been designed to keep players separated to a great extent. These aren’t even partial contact drills, so far as I know.  On the other hand, the little bit of info I have seen suggests infections are happening because of students doing non-sports things (like getting together in apartments or going out). That is good news for athletics, I guess; but not so good as an indication of how kids are going to behave once they all return to campus. 

@Chico Escuela posted:

It's a potential tragedy for staff and faculty, some of whom will not be able to avoid spending a good deal of time around students.  Also a potential tragedy for other non-students in the community. 

I hope that universities will be able to shield those employees who want or need shielding, by doing work online or remotely. 

I am very concerned about staff who can't work remotely, i.e. dining hall staff.  That often includes work-study students.  However, if you keep all students off-campus, all those jobs are lost.  Many students depend on those work-study jobs.  Where are those people going to work?  If they can find jobs at all, they are likely to be in less-secure places.  Universities, in general, are more committed to virus safety than many other employers.  Of course, this has a bigger impact on big universities in small towns, as opposed to smaller colleges in big cities. Many, many businesses either directly or indirectly dependent on the students.

It's just a mess.  I hope that there is more data in July.

Williams joins Bowdoin cancelling fall sports

Williams College on Monday became the second school in the New England Small College Athletic Conference to announce that it will not participate in fall athletics amid the coronavirus outbreak.

https://www.boston.com/sports/...0-fall-sports-season

Grinnell cancelled fall sports today

Swarthmore cancelled fall sports.

Only first years, sophs and transfers on campus in fall.

If they can’t take everyone back second semester, then first years and sophs stay home second semester. Jrs and Srs will be on campus.

 Likely no sports in Spring if all students can’t be on campus. 

Grinnell cancelled? Good lord this is ridiculous. My prediction is coming true. They will all be dumbfounded a year from now wondering why they overreacted, while scrambling to save their school and jobs. 

Dartmouth is doing something similar to Swarthmore:  Students in each class will be on campus 2 out of 4 quarters in 2020-21.  One quarter is designated for each particular class, and students get to rank their choice of an additional one. Sports status is on hold pending decision by Ivy conference. 

Johns Hopkins and Wake Forest announced plans today that look like most I have seen:  A mix of online and in-person classes; dorms mostly singles and extra housing in local apartments or hotels; students go home at Thanksgiving and take remaining classes and exams remotely. This model seems the most popular, at least for schools in places where additional housing can be had.

@ JamesG, There will be schools where that may happen but $ pockets are Mariana Trench deep at Grinnell, Williams, Bowdoin, and Swarthmore. They’ll get through.

Still, very tough already for these kids and will be brutal if athletes in the Classes of ‘20 and ‘21 lose two spring seasons. Fifth years at these schools would be financially, lets’s say, unappealing. 

If ‘21 spring sports are cancelled, then I think extra seasons are off the table and everything will reset. HS  Class of ‘21 may actually have a “normal” off-to-college experience with no (or smaller, at least) logjam of players ahead of them.

Just out of curiosity, Swarthmore is in a suburban area; do they have any idea whether groups of students will rent apartments in the area, and take their online classes from there?  I could see some doing that, although I'm sure that the college wouldn't want it.  Sort of what Cornell was afraid of.

Chico, Swarthmore can house 900 kids in singles so that’s why there’s a rotation planned.

No fall or Spring break. Bye bye Florida.  

Home before Thanksgiving. Introducing  a remote Jan Term. Back Feb1. 

SIGH 

AnotherParent:

If students do live off campus they won’t have access to campus. Effectively banished. 

That is just terrible.  Having half the students there - that doesn't even make classes very meaningful.  How do they even decide who gets to take which classes?

Cornell, which is large (22,000 undergrads) and in a small isolated town, just announced that they are bringing students back for fall.  The rationale was interesting; they have a renowned group of operations research modellers, who concluded that "resuming residential learning this fall would create a safer environment for Cornell and its neighbors than if classes were only held online. . . The analysis determined that two to 10 times more people could be infected with COVID-19 during a semester conducted entirely online, with significantly higher numbers becoming seriously ill. That’s because surveys indicated a large percentage of Cornell students planned to return to off-campus housing in Ithaca even if all instruction was conducted remotely. In that scenario, Cornell would have had no authority to mandate testing or restrict students’ behavior. Now, students living on or off campus will be subject to agreements to follow public health guidelines and an 'absolute requirement' to comply with a testing program."

It doesn't work for small residential colleges, but it's interesting about any schools with a lot of off-campus housing.  It only works if there is a testing program, though.

I saw that Cornell study and it makes sense

I admit i am being cynical, but it sure sounds to me like Cornell is rationalizing.  Isn’t it odd that no other school in the country (that I know of, anyhow) has offered up similar logic. 

As for classes, many places seem to be planning for students not on campus to participate remotely.while their fellow students take those same classes in person. The technical term for this pedagogical strategy is “chaos.”

We just got more information from Notre Dame where my oldest daughter goes. They are doing the same model discussed by another poster (arrive early, no spring break, finish at Thanksgiving) but the latest is that they are sending COVID test to all students before they arrive on campus as opposed to testing them when they get there (which is what they did for the basketball and football players for my other daughter at Northwestern...and they did have some positives and had to isolate more kids because of socializing). The basketball player at NU has to work out with a face mask on. Interestingly Notre Dame women's basketball did NOT go back early for summer workouts. 

This is definitely a case of building the plane while flying. FWIW I am in Mozambique for work right now and they had students learning from home for the past few months (much harder here with cuts in electricity and WiFi). On Monday the President announced a gradual return to school (seasons are flipped here so kids are in school) and 70% of parents are opting to keep their kids at home, primarily because so many students take public transportation which increase chances of infection exponentially.

I went to a smaller school and it was such an amazing experience. I sure hope this generation of kids can capture as much of that experience as possible. 

We can only hope the schools get financially gutted this fall to force them out into the real world. 

What an outrage! If Boston University PhD candidates want to get paid for their research or teaching in the fall they have to show up for work. 

https://digboston.com/memo-req...-fall-sparks-outcry/

Amherst is next domino to fall. No fall sports but teams can practice.

Srs, First years, Sophs can come back.  Essentially no Jrs. 
classes larger than 35 will be on line.

Term ends at Thanksgiving like many others. 

nescac is toast this fall. I’m sure it won’t be alone. 

So Amherst Jrs are all online?  I guess many were planning study abroad this fall (my daughter was) and so don't have housing on campus?

@Chico Escuela posted:

So Amherst Jrs are all online?  I guess many were planning study abroad this fall (my daughter was) and so don't have housing on campus?

I think the idea is that you can take your Gen Eds anywhere. So rather than giving fresh/sophs the option to take classes locally for a semester (part or full) they're saying we'll keep the future money coming in as the juniors and seniors are pretty much stuck unless they didn't plan to graduate on time. 

I'm sure housing and study abroad has something to do with it but every school I've seen making alternate plans has revolved around the younger students. 

Re: fall sports, the linked article is interesting.  Morehouse College becomes first D1 or D2 school to cancel football for this fall.  Meanwhile, Clemson now has 37 positive tests among players, but still plans to play.  Obviously the schools' incentives and situations are different.  The article has some good insights into the thought process at Morehouse.  Unfortunately Clemson didn't grant interviews on this subject, so there's not much about them.

(Yes, it's the NY Times and I know some of you don't like that publication.  The article is worth reading for the quotes from the Morehouse president.  You don't have to agree or disagree with him to recognize he and other university presidents face some tough choices.)

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/0...&pgtype=Homepage

Well, Chico, I, for one, think those head guys are way off base. Pick 'em.

@smokeminside posted:

Well, Chico, I, for one, think those head guys are way off base. Pick 'em.

I'm not sure what you mean, smoke.  A plague on both Morehouse's and Clemson's presidents?  

Seems like, as Lincoln said, both of them may be--and one of them must be--wrong.   

poorly executed sarcasm. Sorry, man.

The Ivy League will determine the fate of its fall sports by next Wednesday (July 8). If they run sports, they are leaning towards an Ivy only 7 game football season.

Had town hall meetings with both boys' college admins.  The kids are gonna be so locked down they're both thinking about just staying home and doing their course work on line.

Very few courses at either school will meet in person. Major restrictions on going off campus, no guests from off-campus, no food delivery, grab n go meals.  How are they gonna get their beer? Besides, who wants to drink alone?

Amherst is lowering its # of credits to graduate from 32 to 30 (each credit essentially meaning one course). Courses will be graded as usual.  

RE: athletics Amherst is going through a phased opening.  First phase: Teams can practice ten kids at a time with a coach or staff member  to enforce social distancing. They can't share any equipment which means they can't even play catch. I guess if they're COVID free for two weeks they can then start sharing some equipment.   If each school gets to spring relatively intact and all students back, they'll have a season but it will probably be just against conference foes, and highly condensed. No spring break, no overnight trips.

To borrow a phrase, baseball may be ending for a while not with a bang, but a whimper.

People need to start pressing schools on their plans for 21-22 school year with sports and classes. And press them now for answers and make a plan, because this will be the same situation we are in now. All potential recruits and students deserve to know who will provide opportunities and who won't. 

@James G posted:

People need to start pressing schools on their plans for 21-22 school year with sports and classes. And press them now for answers and make a plan, because this will be the same situation we are in now. All potential recruits and students deserve to know who will provide opportunities and who won't. 

How can a school possibly know what their plans on for a year+ from now when  no one can predict with any certainty where we'll stand 1 month from now?

If a school thinks there will be no covid19 a year from now, I have timeshares to sell. If anybody thinks it will magically disappear, I have more timeshares to sell. Vaccine or not, it will still be everywhere. And people will still choose not to get vaccinated. So they absolutely should be planning now for the next few years, possibly forever. I'm flabbergasted that people think if we buckle down and wear masks things will get back to normal. This is forever folks. Unless we collectively say we just have to live with it and do what we do, these modifications aren't going anywhere. Potential recruits should know what they are getting into. It's a buyer's market and use it. 

@James G posted:

If a school thinks there will be no covid19 a year from now, I have timeshares to sell. If anybody thinks it will magically disappear, I have more timeshares to sell. Vaccine or not, it will still be everywhere. And people will still choose not to get vaccinated. So they absolutely should be planning now for the next few years, possibly forever. I'm flabbergasted that people think if we buckle down and wear masks things will get back to normal. This is forever folks. Unless we collectively say we just have to live with it and do what we do, these modifications aren't going anywhere. Potential recruits should know what they are getting into. It's a buyer's market and use it. 

I'm in NYC, trust me, I don't think it will magically disappear,  but what would you expect a school, any school to tell a student, let alone a student athlete about 21/22? From an athletics standpoint, what does the conference do? What does the NCAA do? 

For my 2022, should I avoid any school that doesn't have a detailed plan to deal with Covid in 2022? Heck, my 2020's school is changing their plan weekly at this point. 

@smokeminside posted:

Had town hall meetings with both boys' college admins.  The kids are gonna be so locked down they're both thinking about just staying home and doing their course work on line.

Very few courses at either school will meet in person. Major restrictions on going off campus, no guests from off-campus, no food delivery, grab n go meals.  How are they gonna get their beer? Besides, who wants to drink alone?

Amherst is lowering its # of credits to graduate from 32 to 30 (each credit essentially meaning one course). Courses will be graded as usual.  

RE: athletics Amherst is going through a phased opening.  First phase: Teams can practice ten kids at a time with a coach or staff member  to enforce social distancing. They can't share any equipment which means they can't even play catch. I guess if they're COVID free for two weeks they can then start sharing some equipment.   If each school gets to spring relatively intact and all students back, they'll have a season but it will probably be just against conference foes, and highly condensed. No spring break, no overnight trips.

To borrow a phrase, baseball may be ending for a while not with a bang, but a whimper.

Thanks for the info.  You've heard more than I have from either of my kids' colleges.

Did the schools say how they plan to enforce restrictions on going off campus, ordering food delivery, etc.?  I assume it's mostly on a honor system, unless you are careless enough to get caught by an Authority Figure?  No food delivery surprises me, since a) that's not considered much of a risk and b) one reason schools offer for bringing students back is the economic impact on their towns.  Plus, eating nothing but grab and go dining hall food straight through until Thanksgiving could be rough.  Not even grocery deliveries so kids can stock snacks in their rooms?  

Given the restrictions, any idea if baseball will schedule official fall workouts?  And can those initial ten-person workouts be in the weight room?

Sorry to pepper you with questions.  And I realize you may not know the answers (especially given that the schools don't have all the answers yet themselves).

In the case of my kid's school:

Students are allowed to leave campus to buy food. No visitors allowed on campus so dunno about delivery.  They are adding food trucks to campus as well as fresh food vending machines in dorms.

Students must sign a contract  that stipulates penalties including expulsion, and requires agreement to abide by rules such as when mask are worn, how many can be in rooms at a time, no drinking games, etc., and they agree to install a contract tracing app on their phone.  Supposedly the app is not used for enforcement, but to trace who a person has been around should they test positive, but it's not hard to imagine there being an issue if the app shows that student was in a dorm room with 20 others.  There is also a website for anonymous reporting of violators.

It sounds like baseball will be permitted to hold limited workouts.  Not sure if it's official workouts, captains' or both.  The athletic center is going to be open, so I'm guessing teams will workout there.

@nycdad yes I would avoid schools that can't tell me what they plan to do. I would be asking schools if they are going to cowar and do remote learning next year, or are they committing to in person learning and sports? If they can't or refuse to tell you, that's a turn off for me. Until there is some overreaching law that mandates what every college must do, these institutions are free to make up their plans based on guidance, and guidance only. Schools that can't commit or are afraid to would get crossed off the list for me. Would not want my kid looking to play going to a school where the leaders are looking for ways to not do things instead of looking for ways to do them. 

@James G posted:

@nycdad yes I would avoid schools that can't tell me what they plan to do. I would be asking schools if they are going to cowar and do remote learning next year, or are they committing to in person learning and sports? If they can't or refuse to tell you, that's a turn off for me. Until there is some overreaching law that mandates what every college must do, these institutions are free to make up their plans based on guidance, and guidance only. Schools that can't commit or are afraid to would get crossed off the list for me. Would not want my kid looking to play going to a school where the leaders are looking for ways to not do things instead of looking for ways to do them. 

What you speak of is not the current reality, and my guess is you don't currently have a dog in the race so it's very easily to get on a soap box and say these things.

@James G posted:

@nycdad yes I would avoid schools that can't tell me what they plan to do. I would be asking schools if they are going to cowar and do remote learning next year, or are they committing to in person learning and sports? If they can't or refuse to tell you, that's a turn off for me. Until there is some overreaching law that mandates what every college must do, these institutions are free to make up their plans based on guidance, and guidance only. Schools that can't commit or are afraid to would get crossed off the list for me. Would not want my kid looking to play going to a school where the leaders are looking for ways to not do things instead of looking for ways to do them. 

I actually agree with you (and I do have a dog in the race - still waiting to hear).  I'm dismayed that colleges are failing their mission by not offering to bring back all students, especially since some (many?) won't come anyway.  However, this is not something that anyone could have possibly predicted six months ago, and the variety of responses for next fall is sufficiently different from school to school that I'm not even sure anyone could have predicted which school would do what.  And, in fact, we don't know what the outcomes are going to be, although by next November we'll have a better idea.

Besides, we all know that kids choose colleges for baseball, not for what their pandemic policy might be.

@anotherparent posted:

the variety of responses for next fall is sufficiently different from school to school that I'm not even sure anyone could have predicted which school would do what.  

I work in higher ed. and have been following universities' announcements fairly closely.  From what I have seen, there really are only two major categories of responses, at least when it comes to colleges with substantial residential populations:  1) some schools (e.g., most of the Cal State system) have announced they are going to offer remote learning only.  And 2) others plan to have students back on campus with social distancing measures that look similar across the board.  I guess you could say 2a -- schools that have invited all students back, and 2b -- schools that plan to have only a portion of students on campus at a time.  And most colleges in category 2 appear to have hedged their plans by saying they may have to reevaluate later.  Profs at UNC system schools have been told to be prepared to move to remote instruction-only, in case that becomes necessary.  D1 schools are planning to play football this fall, but you don't have to look far at all to find statements that it may not be possible.  

Here's a link to the most comprehensive source I know of collecting colleges' plans.  IMO, they overstate things when they separate schools planning a "hybrid" approach from those planning in-person instruction, because most schools that will have students on campus in the fall seem to be planning to conduct some classes remotely (which is how I would define "hybrid"):

https://www.chronicle.com/arti...d=wcontentgrid_hp_1b

My son is an incoming freshman and the uncertainty about everything is pretty tough.  Last week, the coach held a Zoom meeting with all the players to update them on what they’ll be doing as far as he can share at this point and to introduce the new players.  Evidently, they will have a structured fall practice with all the rules of social distancing in place.  He’s also given them a summer practice plan.  Evidently, one hurdle is the fact that the gym equipment can’t be used because it’s indoors so there is some discussion of moving it outside. I appreciate the meeting if for no other reason than it gave my son something positive to look forward to and to feel he’s part of a team going forward.  

The downside in all of this is just the nature of the college experience overall.  As mentioned in previous posts, these kids who actually return to campus will be living in a lockdown mode.  Others will take all their classes remotely online. Most who return to campus will be taking most if not all classes online but living in a single dorm room. Those who don’t want to return to campus under these conditions but also don’t want to pay full tuition for online courses are requesting a gap year or ability to get a deferment for a year.  Originally, Dartmouth, for example, told the incoming class that they either had to show up or reapply next year.  The students challenged this with a Change.Org petition and Dartmouth relented immediately.  Evidently, many students are planning on taking advantage of this because Dartmouth quickly went to its Waitlist, something it hasn’t done in years.  Other Ivy League schools are evidently doing the same. There is some undercurrent of unhappiness among the students because it appears that the schools are first taking the kids off the Waitlist who can pay full tuition.  This week will be key in how all of this plays out because the Ivy League will give some direction about it’s plans and students will have to let the school know if they plan to attend or defer. This is anticipated to result in further use of the Waitlist which predictably will have a ripple effect among other schools. 

All of this said, everything can change in an instant depending on what happens with the pandemic as the kids learned last spring. This experience is and will continue to be a roller coaster for parents and students alike.

Harvard's plan for returning in the fall:

https://news.harvard.edu/gazet...to-campus-this-fall/

Kicking the sophomores off is brutal, since they didn't get to finish their freshman year.  If they dump anyone, it should be the juniors and first-semester seniors.  Anyway, it's horrible for everyone.  Public schools are no better, our system seems to have no coherent plan for the high schools, which start in a month.

Yale will have no sophomores in fall, no freshmen in spring:

https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/01...us-reopen/index.html

What gets me is that some schools are not even asking students what they think or want, or whether they would come back if allowed.  They are just making decisions based on no knowledge.  What if half the students would choose not to come back to campus anyway?  Then the others could be spaced adequately.  What if 85% really want to come back, and won't pay if they can't?  Kills me that the bigger schools are planning to bring students back (maybe because 3/4 are living off-campus), it's the smaller ones with more money that are doing these crazy contortions, keeping whole classes out.   

Maybe my kids have had a different experience. They and their mom and I were surveyed several times about priorities.  Now it looks like our two are gonna either stay home or live with teammates off campus but where they can work out together or live with HS buddies in similar straits, either in Thailand or Bali and learning on line from there.

Bali or Thailand?  Smoke, would you consider adopting me?

My kids' schools had some websites and online meetings that invited various kinds of feedback from students and parents.  There was a lot of "process"--I can't say how seriously the input was treated.

Here is one (dark) vision of the socially distanced college classroom.  On the other hand, students care mainly about getting away from home and seeing their friends, not about how classes operate:  https://www.insidehighered.com...ed-classroom-opinion

I am in on conversations about how the classroom will be set up.  There is a lot of thought put into it.  In the end, though, it will be the kids hanging out together that will spread it as is the case now. 

Chico, when I told son we'd think about it, he came back with the fact that his summer internship money was going to help pay for room and board somewhere.  Might as well be someplace he'd like to be, where he can actually hang out with his friends. Frankly from where I sit Bali is closer than Paris, he's already been to Europe. Plus the cost of living is cheaper. 

@smokeminside posted:

Chico, when I told son we'd think about it, he came back with the fact that his summer internship money was going to help pay for room and board somewhere.  Might as well be someplace he'd like to be, where he can actually hang out with his friends. Frankly from where I sit Bali is closer than Paris, he's already been to Europe. Plus the cost of living is cheaper. 

France is closed to US citizens now for study or vacationing anyhow.  Bali or Phuket sound a lot more interesting (much cheaper, too).

And here is the Centennial Conference announcement suspending fall sports:  https://centennial.prestosport...al/2020-21/fall_2020

@Chico Escuela posted:

France is closed to US citizens now for study or vacationing anyhow.  Bali or Phuket sound a lot more interesting (much cheaper, too).

And here is the Centennial Conference announcement suspending fall sports:  https://centennial.prestosport...al/2020-21/fall_2020

I would expect the Ivy League to follow suit 

@Chico Escuela posted:

I work in higher ed. and have been following universities' announcements fairly closely.  From what I have seen, there really are only two major categories of responses, at least when it comes to colleges with substantial residential populations:  1) some schools (e.g., most of the Cal State system) have announced they are going to offer remote learning only.  And 2) others plan to have students back on campus with social distancing measures that look similar across the board.  I guess you could say 2a -- schools that have invited all students back, and 2b -- schools that plan to have only a portion of students on campus at a time.  And most colleges in category 2 appear to have hedged their plans by saying they may have to reevaluate later.  Profs at UNC system schools have been told to be prepared to move to remote instruction-only, in case that becomes necessary.  D1 schools are planning to play football this fall, but you don't have to look far at all to find statements that it may not be possible.  

Here's a link to the most comprehensive source I know of collecting colleges' plans.  IMO, they overstate things when they separate schools planning a "hybrid" approach from those planning in-person instruction, because most schools that will have students on campus in the fall seem to be planning to conduct some classes remotely (which is how I would define "hybrid"):

https://www.chronicle.com/arti...d=wcontentgrid_hp_1b

Great resource. Thank you for sharing. 

@adbono posted:

I would expect the Ivy League to follow suit 

Decision expected tomorrow.

@Chico Escuela posted:

France is closed to US citizens now for study or vacationing anyhow.  Bali or Phuket sound a lot more interesting (much cheaper, too).

And here is the Centennial Conference announcement suspending fall sports:  https://centennial.prestosport...al/2020-21/fall_2020

this is stunning...I just goes to show rich smart people can be stupid to!! IVY is next no doubt, they can't allow anyone to appear more woke then they are. 

Centennial was woke FIRST, though! They get the Cadillac Eldorado, and Ivy gets the steak knives, which is great because there are 8 knives.

Clearly, the Ivy League will do what the Centennial Conference is doing.  All the articles I’ve seen report that they’re expected to announce that they’ll try to move football to the spring.  I’m curious how all this is supposed to work in light of everything else anyway. At all these schools, on campus residence will be restricted to certain classes.  So the incoming freshman may be on campus in the fall but not in the spring and vice versa for the seniors.  How exactly are they supposed to have competitive sports at any of these schools? For example, if you’re a sophomore baseball player at a school that isn’t scheduled to have sophomores in residence for the spring semester are you supposed to find a place to live off campus or will there be special dorm space for the athletes whose class isn’t in residence in a semester when your team is supposed to be playing?  It seems most likely that barring a vaccine,  there really won’t be any sports in the Ivy League or at HA schools this year. If that proves to be true, how will that affect baseball at any of these schools since it will essentially mean that they won’t play for two consecutive seasons (considering the fact that last season was dramatically cut short)? On a separate note, how will this affect sports, particularly in the Ivy League, overall?  In recent years, there has been discussion of taking legacies and athletes out of the equation in Ivy League admissions.  Doubtful they’ll ever get rid of the former but will this disruption ultimately lead to the latter?

@BackstopMom posted:

It seems most likely that barring a vaccine,  there really won’t be any sports in the Ivy League or at HA schools this year. If that proves to be true, how will that affect baseball at any of these schools since it will essentially mean that they won’t play for two consecutive seasons (considering the fact that last season was dramatically cut short)? On a separate note, how will this affect sports, particularly in the Ivy League, overall?  In recent years, there has been discussion of taking legacies and athletes out of the equation in Ivy League admissions.  Doubtful they’ll ever get rid of the former but will this disruption ultimately lead to the latter?

I was going to write back that some high academics will continue to have sports but just found some new info that spooks me a bit.  My son is at a school in the NEWMAC conference (d3) which is basically all in Massachusetts with one in CT.  Not all are high academic schools in conference but they announced they will play sports in all seasons but no travel and only in conference for now.   The one school I was most worried about was MIT.  I just noticed that they did just cancel all fall sports yesterday.  They have not made decisions on winter yet.  My sons school did announce fall practice plans for baseball and has announced they plan to play all seasons.  They gave themselves the out of course - following the data.  The virus here in the NorthEast is under control for now. 

Side thought- I assumed the virus would weaken in the summer and come back in the fall winter.  It didn't weaken in summer - its in the south in the middle of the summer.  So why do we expect a second (or third) wave to occur in the fall / winter when it can occur now?  Perhaps the virus can live longer in colder temps and the risk is just higher.  Just an observation.   

Gunner, I think the main concern about fall/winter is that people spend a lot more time inside then.  So instead of gathering in places like beaches, parks and outdoor patios, they are more likely to be in enclosed spaces.  

I'm not making a prediction or a recommendation, but it would not surprise me to see some schools switch to all-remote classes in the next few weeks (or all-remote except labs and other activities that just cannot be done via Zoom).  Maybe they take Cornell's route and invite students to live on campus anyway?  But the tea leaves don't look positive to me--infection and hospitalization trends in many states, increasing faculty objections, students and parents having second thoughts about the appeal of socially distanced college now that they see the rules that will apply.  

At this point, it looks as though I am going to be paying tuition, room & board to send two kids to private universities so they can take most of their classes online from their dorm rooms and eat dining hall take out.  Seems like the main reason students would be interested in that arrangement is because they assume they can party despite rules trying to prohibit that.  

@Chico Escuela posted:

Gunner, I think the main concern about fall/winter is that people spend a lot more time inside then.  So instead of gathering in places like beaches, parks and outdoor patios, they are more likely to be in enclosed spaces.  

I'm not making a prediction or a recommendation, but it would not surprise me to see some schools switch to all-remote classes in the next few weeks (or all-remote except labs and other activities that just cannot be done via Zoom).  Maybe they take Cornell's route and invite students to live on campus anyway?  But the tea leaves don't look positive to me--infection and hospitalization trends in many states, increasing faculty objections, students and parents having second thoughts about the appeal of socially distanced college now that they see the rules that will apply.  

At this point, it looks as though I am going to be paying tuition, room & board to send two kids to private universities so they can take most of their classes online from their dorm rooms and eat dining hall take out.  Seems like the main reason students would be interested in that arrangement is because they assume they can party despite rules trying to prohibit that.  

I just sent checks for both my kids so they are going even if the schools won't let them on campus..... I will just have them live with RJM or Glofisher.  For me, the next few weeks are key to understand how this massive spike in cases filters through hospitalizations, to ICU to deaths by age group.   The spike started around June 10th so we are a month past and data should start telling us more information now. 

This is going back to what colleges can afford to take the financial hits and which ones can't.  The hits are coming if they restrict access to campus or only allow kids to do all remote learning.  I doubt the administrators have forgotten this but I can tell you the parents will be asking for Williams type discounts if it's remote learning.  

@Chico Escuela posted:

 

At this point, it looks as though I am going to be paying tuition, room & board to send two kids to private universities so they can take most of their classes online from their dorm rooms and eat dining hall take out.  Seems like the main reason students would be interested in that arrangement is because they assume they can party despite rules trying to prohibit that.  

To the party comment how great is this from Tulane:

Dear Student,

Over the weekend, in spite of our pleas to the contrary, many of our students living in New Orleans chose to have parties and large gatherings where social distancing wasn't being practiced and face masks weren't being worn. They then saw fit to post this all-over social media. This comes on the heels of national news attention about super spreader events. These events were disruptive to our neighbors and drew a lot of very negative attention to Tulane. The behaviors of the student hosts and those who chose to attend these parties was disrespectful, selfish and dangerous and not in line with Tulane values. This type of behavior is indefensible and truly shameful.

For those of you who are returning students, as you know, we are incredibly lucky that Tulane is in a city that is unlike any in the country, a city where culture and community matter and one that honors difference. After an initial surge of infections, the citizens of New Orleans came together to flatten the curve of this pandemic and reduce infections to a rate that allowed for our city to begin reopening. The actions of the individuals over the weekend were very publicly disrespectful to the Tulane University community and to the people of New Orleans, and have the potential to undermine our significant progress against this deadly disease.

The calculation is simple - If you want to have a residential experience at Tulane in the fall, you have to behave differently. This means, no large gatherings (+15 people), and at all times wearing masks in public spaces, practicing social distancing and washing your hands. We are finishing our complete enforcement plan for the fall, but it is clear that this message had to be delivered immediately. DO NOT HOST PARTIES OR GATHERINGS WITH MORE THAN 15 PEOPLE, INCLUDING THE HOST. IF YOU DO, YOU WILL FACE SUSPENSION OR EXPULSION FROM THE UNIVERSITY. All gatherings, of any size, must observe appropriate social distancing and attendees should wear masks. There is no room for error here. People’s lives depend on your adherence to these rules. They aren't just nameless, faceless people – they are our people.

So please, make decisions with this in mind. We understand that it requires a different way of thinking about and approaching life – but we believe our students are conscientious enough and mature enough to adhere to the public health expectations of Tulane and the City of New Orleans. If we didn't, we would not be reopening. We need everyone's help to have a safe fall. Hold your friends and peers accountable and reach out when you need help with that. You can report problematic behavior by using our online report system <https://t.e2ma.net/click/f8ykqc/rlp77lb/f4nlwi>. These reports are received in real time. You can also call the Tulane University Police at tel:504-865-5381.

Do you really want to be the reason that Tulane and New Orleans have to shut down again?

Given the typical college experience these days, if all schools turn to an enforcement model of expelling violations such as what happened at Tulane, admission to even the most selective schools will become much easier.  We have a Webinar with my son’s school this week and they’ll be going over the rules, but as we’ve read them so far it appears that his freshman experience will look more like that in 1820 than 2020.  Currently, he’s not happy about that, but he’s willing to give it a try.  

No parties at Tulane?  Mind blown... 

A university can, as a legal matter, restrict off campus parties as part of an enrollment “contract.”  But if those parties don’t violate state/local rules, it’s going to be a heck of a lift to actually expel any student living off campus.  Or maybe students will wise up and stop documenting parties on social media? (I know, that really seems impossible.)

The Tulane letter refers to “hosting” parties. Find a friend who is a recent grad or just not affiliated with Tulane and party at his/her place—no violation?  Folks living near campus could make some coin with an AirBnB-type arrangement for parties.  

I would like to be proven wrong, but I don’t expect any of these new policies to have much bite.  My working assumption is that my kids will violate social distancing requirements regularly at school this fall. I am not happy about that, but am resigned to it. For now at least. 

Higher education is delusional....they are going to get a hair cut they never saw coming from several directions. Granted it is about 30 years to late but in a weird painful way it could save them from themselves. One of the greediest, self-serving and pompous industries that has never been through an adjustment...it will be fun to watch. 

@Gunner Mack Jr. posted:

Side thought- I assumed the virus would weaken in the summer and come back in the fall winter.  It didn't weaken in summer - its in the south in the middle of the summer.  So why do we expect a second (or third) wave to occur in the fall / winter when it can occur now?  Perhaps the virus can live longer in colder temps and the risk is just higher.  Just an observation.   

I was thinking about this, but consider this.

1) The South and West are generally nice in the Spring, while the Northeast is cold

2) The Northeast is nice in the summer, while the South and West are too hot

So, where the weather is nicer, more people our outside, so they don't spread it as much.  BTW, I claim no expertise on this, but just going with my own side thought on a side thought.

@Gunner Mack Jr. posted:

To the party comment how great is this from Tulane:

Dear Student,

Over the weekend, in spite of our pleas to the contrary, many of our students living in New Orleans chose to have parties and large gatherings where social distancing wasn't being practiced and face masks weren't being worn. They then saw fit to post this all-over social media. This comes on the heels of national news attention about super spreader events. These events were disruptive to our neighbors and drew a lot of very negative attention to Tulane. The behaviors of the student hosts and those who chose to attend these parties was disrespectful, selfish and dangerous and not in line with Tulane values. This type of behavior is indefensible and truly shameful.

For those of you who are returning students, as you know, we are incredibly lucky that Tulane is in a city that is unlike any in the country, a city where culture and community matter and one that honors difference. After an initial surge of infections, the citizens of New Orleans came together to flatten the curve of this pandemic and reduce infections to a rate that allowed for our city to begin reopening. The actions of the individuals over the weekend were very publicly disrespectful to the Tulane University community and to the people of New Orleans, and have the potential to undermine our significant progress against this deadly disease.

The calculation is simple - If you want to have a residential experience at Tulane in the fall, you have to behave differently. This means, no large gatherings (+15 people), and at all times wearing masks in public spaces, practicing social distancing and washing your hands. We are finishing our complete enforcement plan for the fall, but it is clear that this message had to be delivered immediately. DO NOT HOST PARTIES OR GATHERINGS WITH MORE THAN 15 PEOPLE, INCLUDING THE HOST. IF YOU DO, YOU WILL FACE SUSPENSION OR EXPULSION FROM THE UNIVERSITY. All gatherings, of any size, must observe appropriate social distancing and attendees should wear masks. There is no room for error here. People’s lives depend on your adherence to these rules. They aren't just nameless, faceless people – they are our people.

So please, make decisions with this in mind. We understand that it requires a different way of thinking about and approaching life – but we believe our students are conscientious enough and mature enough to adhere to the public health expectations of Tulane and the City of New Orleans. If we didn't, we would not be reopening. We need everyone's help to have a safe fall. Hold your friends and peers accountable and reach out when you need help with that. You can report problematic behavior by using our online report system <https://t.e2ma.net/click/f8ykqc/rlp77lb/f4nlwi>. These reports are received in real time. You can also call the Tulane University Police at tel:504-865-5381.

Do you really want to be the reason that Tulane and New Orleans have to shut down again?

When these same people allow protests they lose all credibility.  Who listens to this after watching the news night after night?

@Viking0 posted:

I was thinking about this, but consider this.

1) The South and West are generally nice in the Spring, while the Northeast is cold

2) The Northeast is nice in the summer, while the South and West are too hot

So, where the weather is nicer, more people our outside, so they don't spread it as much.  BTW, I claim no expertise on this, but just going with my own side thought on a side thought.

People get infected by influenza during summer months. Just not as easily because:

1. Herd immunity

2. Vaccination

2. People are out and about with a good portion of them being outside.

C-19:

1. Novel virus

2. No vaccination

I can’t help but sense the irony as I enjoy watching my son and other college baseball players play summer collegiate-league ball this summer around the country all the while knowing he may not play ball next Spring!

Of course, if fall baseball workouts are a go in some form, I guess I will have to send my kid to campus if only for those.  Doesn’t seem like a great bargain. 

At my son’s school, he will be required to sign a document stating that he will comply with all the rules or be sent home.  He will download an app where he will keep track of daily COVID symptom status. He’ll also be required to keep a daily contact list of everyone he comes in contact with each day for contact tracing later if necessary. If he leaves campus for any reason (which is highly discouraged), he will be COVID tested upon return.  He can’t have any outside guests without prior approval.  Those are the basics.  We’ll learn more later. 

I will say that in this environment, as an entering freshman, I am grateful that he’s on the baseball team.  It gives him a ready made group of kids he’s already getting to know.  They are developing a sense of teamwork already feeling that while they’re in a strange situation, they’re in this together. Perhaps that will benefit them later as a team.  I certainly would hate to send a kid off to school in this environment not knowing a soul.  It’s already designed to be very isolating.  It would feel more like going off to a minimum security federal prison than a college. I know it’s the best these schools can do under the circumstances, but I wonder the long term impact on higher education.

BackstopMom  -- this sounds very similar to the plan announced by our son's school. They have a hybrid plan and  they're working on infrastructure.  At this point the big question is will the county and state let them reopen.  A couple of weeks ago that didn't concern me. Now it does.

From what I have seen, every school is doing much the same thing.  Which makes sense—best practices shouldn’t vary much. (But those best practices still seem unlikely to stop kids from being kids, IMO.)

@BackstopMom posted:

He will download an app where he will keep track of daily COVID symptom status. He’ll also be required to keep a daily contact list of everyone he comes in contact with each day for contact tracing later if necessary. If he leaves campus for any reason (which is highly discouraged), he will be COVID tested upon return.  He can’t have any outside guests without prior approval.  Those are the basics.  We’ll learn more later. 

 

Hmm. I need to do some research on some companies to invest in. "Burner phones" are getting ready to be extremely popular to more than just the intelligence, criminal, and terrorism organizations!!!

This pandemic has made me realize the importance of a residential college education that I never thought about before. The importance of face-to-face instruction because of the little interactions that occur before and after class, and outside of class, between students and between students and professors. The vital importance of living in a place where everyone is engaged in the same activity, everyone is taking classes, doing homework, taking exams. The rest of it - sports, extra-curriculars, lectures, etc. - are very important too, but at base is the contact with other students in your classes.

Son's school is not bringing any students to campus this fall, I am furious. He needs to get away from home, to be living and learning with others. Never mind the baseball aspect - where is he going to train? How is going to our local gym to lift going to be safer for him than being on campus? So right now, those of you with sons who are being brought back to quarantined campuses, consider yourselves lucky.

Ivy League has cancelled fall sports.

@anotherparent posted:

Ivy League has cancelled fall sports.

Of course they have. Expect the same fate for spring sports.