The southern coaches may not care where the recruit comes from but you best believe that the AD and Administration cares..I've been told that from several Southern school coaches who were scouting my son...Administration reviews who the coaches want to bring in and will question the AD in no uncertain terms why they can't find a local southern kid...they get questioned by alumni and donors who strongly advocate for southern kids...it's a big factor..if you don't understand this or have some sort of denial mechanism going on then you are putting yourself at a disadvantage in the process.. I'm referring to the southern state schools...don't bother citing the Vanderbilts of the world.
CatcherDadNY posted:The southern coaches may not care where the recruit comes from but you best believe that the AD and Administration cares..I've been told that from several Southern school coaches who were scouting my son...Administration reviews who the coaches want to bring in and will question the AD in no uncertain terms why they can't find a local southern kid...they get questioned by alumni and donors who strongly advocate for southern kids...it's a big factor..if you don't understand this or have some sort of denial mechanism going on then you are putting yourself at a disadvantage in the process.. I'm referring to the southern state schools...don't bother citing the Vanderbilts of the world.
I don't buy that. Southern AD's and administrators, specifically the SEC, want to win. They don't care where a recruit comes from in any sport if they can help them win. Sports are really important in the South. Winning trumps everything. Arkansas had players from CA, CO, NJ, IL, IA, MO, KS, TX, OK. Mississippi State has players from Canada, IL, IN, WI, and a signee from NJ.
Ask a Bama alumni if they care where a football recruit comes from.
Really?...if you are going to cite Alabama then have a look at their current football roster...QED.
D Mac my take on what people are talking about is more the average player on a roster or even more so lower roster kids. And yes it makes sense. Why take an out of stater for your 28th roster spot?? Doesn't make sense. Both from a financial and home sick standpoint. I think we all agree if a kid is throwing 95 he can go wherever he wants and nobody will care if he is out of state.
And be careful when citing Arkansas and a NJ recruit...out of 41 rostered players he was the only one with a Northeast connection and he actually played a good part of his HS at IMG in Florida.
CatcherDadNY posted:Really?...if you are going to cite Alabama then have a look at their current football roster...QED.
How many Northern kids really want to go to Alabama? Yes I am serious. For us northerners the sun doesn't rise and set over the SEC. If my son (football player) were of that caliber (he is not) top three choices would be Wisconsin, Michigan and Notre Dame. Alabama not so much. There are a lot of reasons kids pick schools. And it's not always cause they are the 'top dog'. So while I do generally agree with you there is some bias I think we also have to say there are other factors as well.
2020dad posted:D Mac my take on what people are talking about is more the average player on a roster or even more so lower roster kids. And yes it makes sense. Why take an out of stater for your 28th roster spot?? Doesn't make sense. Both from a financial and home sick standpoint. I think we all agree if a kid is throwing 95 he can go wherever he wants and nobody will care if he is out of state.
In state kid, sure. Local Southern kid? No way. Do you think Arkansas alumni/adminstrators are going to put pressure on a coach to take a kid from Texas over a kid from New Jersey? That’s what I was replying to. Every baseball program is going to have a base of in state kids. The rest are going to be comprised of kids who can help the program win regardless of where they live. I’m referring to the Southern programs that recruit nationally.
Understood,..but that is a separate issue not germane to my point...you cited Alabama and Arkansas in your reply, however the facts don't support your assertion...to the contrary, the rosters show an overwhelming preponderance toward southern recruits and a demonstrable lack of northern recruits..therefore a reasonable argument can be made that supports what I was told by several southern state school coaches..they have to deal with political pressure when they recruit players..northern coaches are not constricted in that manner...look at the rosters in all sports...they are loaded with southern players at northern schools..a lot of the being transfers..it's the dirty little secret and if you have a player that is going through the process it is better that you understand this..I'm not saying it's wrong...but I am calling out those who are denying such.
In State recruiters see the in state stock earlier and more often.
johnny played for a SEC powerhouse from 2013-2017 that had 5-8 out of towners (generally pitchers; although he was OF from a NE Prep).
Top SEC/ACC schools will take the best of the best, but have so much talent in state that the rosters lean toward in state.
iMO, more looks over a longer period playing against better HS pitching .
If the SEC/ACC only recruit the best talent then they would have a overwhelming record of athletes in all sports that go on to play at the pro level, far above that of northern schools, which they don't...pitchers are outliers and always will have separate tracks...we don't live in an altruistic world where decisions are made in a vacuum..every recruit decision gets scrutinized by several people at different levels..if you think a coach makes that decision on his own then he better be Urban Meyer.
CatcherDadNY posted:If the SEC/ACC only recruit the best talent then they would have a overwhelming record of athletes in all sports that go on to play at the pro level, far above that of northern schools, which they don't...pitchers are outliers and always will have separate tracks...we don't live in an altruistic world where decisions are made in a vacuum..every recruit decision gets scrutinized by several people at different levels..if you think a coach makes that decision on his own then he better be Urban Meyer.
In baseball they do. 2018 MLB draft picks by conference:
- SEC: 99
- ACC: 75
- Pac 12: 49
- Big 12: 45
- B1G: 37
- Big East: 17
- Atlantic 10: 12
- America East: 7
- MAAC: 5
- Northeast Conf: 5
174 for SEC/ACC vs 167 for the others cited is nearly equal.
CatcherDadNY posted:174 for SEC/ACC vs 167 for the others cited is nearly equal.
LOL, you said that the SEC/ACC would have a number "far above that of northern schools" . . . didn't realize you were counting the PAC12 and Big 12 in the "northern schools."
PAC 12 is not southern...Big 12 has Texas...WV and Oklahoma depend on how one defines southern...and your point is?
CatcherDadNY posted:PAC 12 is not southern...Big 12 has Texas...WV and Oklahoma depend on how one defines southern...and your point is?
You said: "If the SEC/ACC only recruit the best talent then they would have a overwhelming record of athletes in all sports that go on to play at the pro level, far above that of northern schools, which they don't"
My point is, in baseball, they do. I don't know about other sports.
This thread is funny. It’s got nothing to do with north vs south. Pull up a roster in Wisconsin, most kids are from Wisconsin and Illinois. Gee, not one Florida kid??? For shame!!!! The northern schools shouldn’t discriminate like that!
The majority of kids go to school within two hours of their house, whether they play baseball or not.
d-mac posted:CatcherDadNY posted:The southern coaches may not care where the recruit comes from but you best believe that the AD and Administration cares..I've been told that from several Southern school coaches who were scouting my son...Administration reviews who the coaches want to bring in and will question the AD in no uncertain terms why they can't find a local southern kid...they get questioned by alumni and donors who strongly advocate for southern kids...it's a big factor..if you don't understand this or have some sort of denial mechanism going on then you are putting yourself at a disadvantage in the process.. I'm referring to the southern state schools...don't bother citing the Vanderbilts of the world.
I don't buy that. Southern AD's and administrators, specifically the SEC, want to win. They don't care where a recruit comes from in any sport if they can help them win. Sports are really important in the South. Winning trumps everything. Arkansas had players from CA, CO, NJ, IL, IA, MO, KS, TX, OK. Mississippi State has players from Canada, IL, IN, WI, and a signee from NJ.
Ask a Bama alumni if they care where a football recruit comes from.
You aren't comparing Alabama football to any college baseball program are you? Virtually every school in the country would cut the baseball program overnight to become Alabama football. They would drop it completely and honor all expenses for the next several years to clean the books and then go have a party in the Presidents house!!
Alabama football will do what it damn well pleases within very large open boundaries and Alabama baseball will follow orders inside much smaller ones.
2019Dad posted:CatcherDadNY posted:If the SEC/ACC only recruit the best talent then they would have a overwhelming record of athletes in all sports that go on to play at the pro level, far above that of northern schools, which they don't...pitchers are outliers and always will have separate tracks...we don't live in an altruistic world where decisions are made in a vacuum..every recruit decision gets scrutinized by several people at different levels..if you think a coach makes that decision on his own then he better be Urban Meyer.
In baseball they do. 2018 MLB draft picks by conference:
- SEC: 99
- ACC: 75
- Pac 12: 49
- Big 12: 45
- B1G: 37
- Big East: 17
- Atlantic 10: 12
- America East: 7
- MAAC: 5
- Northeast Conf: 5
Hrumpf, Fuzzy Math.
CaCO3Girl posted:This thread is funny. It’s got nothing to do with north vs south. Pull up a roster in Wisconsin, most kids are from Wisconsin and Illinois. Gee, not one Florida kid??? For shame!!!! The northern schools shouldn’t discriminate like that!
The majority of kids go to school within two hours of their house, whether they play baseball or not.
But we DO discriminate like that! Us Yankees want to keep y'all down there where you belong - not up here in gods country!!
Again it's some of both. If you have a climate which allows you to play way more baseball than another climate it stands to reason that player A from the south and Player B from Gods country who both have the same God given talent... player A will become better cause he had better opportunities. Then because there ARE more good players per capita in the south the perception and reality become muddled. So then yes I do believe some better Northern kids get snubbed because some southern kid gets the benefit of perception. Or maybe the benefit of more scouts seeing him cause they are scouting the hotbeds. Plus baseball minded people often move south and breed better baseball players. If you don't believe in DNA's role... I can't help you. So I think everybody is a little bit right here.
2020DAD,
I thought God's Country was Texas? Now there is a bias for ya! 
FriarFred posted:2020DAD,
I thought God's Country was Texas? Now there is a bias for ya!
God’s country is North Carolina. It’s why he painted the sky Carolina blue.
Kids who love sports in general (not necessarily going to compete at the college level) love the atmosphere at the SEC games. My son had a kid from his HS go to Clemson this year just because he wanted to have that "big school" experience and it was much easier to get into than the big-time in-state programs in our state.
Alabama football also has this effect, along with Duke and NC basketball. Kids want a great college experience and when they see the student body sections on TV, that helps drive their decision making.
2020dad posted:CaCO3Girl posted:This thread is funny. It’s got nothing to do with north vs south. Pull up a roster in Wisconsin, most kids are from Wisconsin and Illinois. Gee, not one Florida kid??? For shame!!!! The northern schools shouldn’t discriminate like that!
The majority of kids go to school within two hours of their house, whether they play baseball or not.
But we DO discriminate like that! Us Yankees want to keep y'all down there where you belong - not up here in gods country!!
Again it's some of both. If you have a climate which allows you to play way more baseball than another climate it stands to reason that player A from the south and Player B from Gods country who both have the same God given talent... player A will become better cause he had better opportunities. Then because there ARE more good players per capita in the south the perception and reality become muddled. So then yes I do believe some better Northern kids get snubbed because some southern kid gets the benefit of perception. Or maybe the benefit of more scouts seeing him cause they are scouting the hotbeds. Plus baseball minded people often move south and breed better baseball players. If you don't believe in DNA's role... I can't help you. So I think everybody is a little bit right here.
I think the other factor -- impossible to measure -- is "what portion of a region's best athletes play the sport?" I have heard from Minnesotans that their best athletes play hockey. I know in SoCal, quite a few of the best athletes play baseball. Not sure that's the case equally around the country. Climate might influence it, but climate isn't the only thing (e.g., basketball in Indiana).
CatcherDadNY posted:Understood,..but that is a separate issue not germane to my point...you cited Alabama and Arkansas in your reply, however the facts don't support your assertion...to the contrary, the rosters show an overwhelming preponderance toward southern recruits and a demonstrable lack of northern recruits..therefore a reasonable argument can be made that supports what I was told by several southern state school coaches..they have to deal with political pressure when they recruit players..northern coaches are not constricted in that manner...look at the rosters in all sports...they are loaded with southern players at northern schools..a lot of the being transfers..it's the dirty little secret and if you have a player that is going through the process it is better that you understand this..I'm not saying it's wrong...but I am calling out those who are denying such.
Southern players are better. More southern players being on the rosters of the best teams in the nation would be the facts to back that claim up. The ACC/SEC having the same number of players drafted as the next 8 conferences would be the facts.
The only job these coaches have are to win and if they're not winning to get their kids drafted. The president of UF doesn't tell the coach he can't go to Diamond Nation in NJ to recruit. He just doesn't need to. Why? Because for every kid in NJ/NY/CT/PA/DE over 90mph, there are 10 in Florida. That is why mid majors in the south are good at baseball. There is more talent than there are schools in the south.
2019 was recruited by a few southern schools. He had no interest. Didn't want to play/live 12 hours from home. Didn't want to take 3 days off school to visit each campus. Things like this factor into it as well.
2019Dad posted:2020dad posted:CaCO3Girl posted:This thread is funny. It’s got nothing to do with north vs south. Pull up a roster in Wisconsin, most kids are from Wisconsin and Illinois. Gee, not one Florida kid??? For shame!!!! The northern schools shouldn’t discriminate like that!
The majority of kids go to school within two hours of their house, whether they play baseball or not.
But we DO discriminate like that! Us Yankees want to keep y'all down there where you belong - not up here in gods country!!
Again it's some of both. If you have a climate which allows you to play way more baseball than another climate it stands to reason that player A from the south and Player B from Gods country who both have the same God given talent... player A will become better cause he had better opportunities. Then because there ARE more good players per capita in the south the perception and reality become muddled. So then yes I do believe some better Northern kids get snubbed because some southern kid gets the benefit of perception. Or maybe the benefit of more scouts seeing him cause they are scouting the hotbeds. Plus baseball minded people often move south and breed better baseball players. If you don't believe in DNA's role... I can't help you. So I think everybody is a little bit right here.
I think the other factor -- impossible to measure -- is "what portion of a region's best athletes play the sport?" I have heard from Minnesotans that their best athletes play hockey. I know in SoCal, quite a few of the best athletes play baseball. Not sure that's the case equally around the country. Climate might influence it, but climate isn't the only thing (e.g., basketball in Indiana).
Really good point 2019!
I know Wisconsin is Gods country cause I saw it stated on a beer commercial when I was a kid! Hamm's I believe!!! They can't lie in commercials or it would be false advertising!!
correction. It was old style!
Is there new information or more people hearing the old information?
Starting to see the speculation in other baseball message boards, now with some more additional details and that some upcoming PG tournaments originally planned for LakePoint going to be held now in Birmingham AL.
Why would PG leave LP?
The only reason I can see to leave would be if the threat of loss of access or loss of control to guarantee the programs you are selling all summer are able to move forward.
I wonder what kind of deal PG has with LakePoint. If PG has a very good deal, maybe LakePoint decided it gave away too much and they are not able to make a profit, hence the bankruptcy filing, and the filing allowed LakePoint to renegotiate causing PG to walk away?
atlnon posted:I wonder what kind of deal PG has with LakePoint. If PG has a very good deal, maybe LakePoint decided it gave away too much and they are not able to make a profit, hence the bankruptcy filing, and the filing allowed LakePoint to renegotiate causing PG to walk away?
The bankruptcy was a legal loophole Lakepoint always planned on taking advantage of.
Don't know if this in anyway related....but I have a friend whose son (14ish) has played PG tournaments in Birmingham all fall. Before posting I went and looked up facilities and see that Bham (Hoover) has upped the ante on whats available. There are also several highschools within 10 miles of this facility. (PLUS traffic would be a whole lot less of a hassle!). This is where the SEC baseball tournament is played.
BASEBALL FIELDS
OPENING AUGUST 2018, The Hoover Met Complex’s state-of-art outdoor baseball complex features:
- Five (5) NCAA regulation-size baseball/softball fields:
- Four (4) artificial turf fields
- One (1) natural grass field
Each field is equipped with a scoreboard and LED field lighting, including 50-foot infield candles and 30-foot outfield candles.
For younger players, the four turf fields can be broken up at the corners, transforming them into eight regulation youth-size fields. Our facilities will also include ten (10) batting cages for athletes and coaches to reserve.
CaCO3Girl posted:atlnon posted:I wonder what kind of deal PG has with LakePoint. If PG has a very good deal, maybe LakePoint decided it gave away too much and they are not able to make a profit, hence the bankruptcy filing, and the filing allowed LakePoint to renegotiate causing PG to walk away?
The bankruptcy was a legal loophole Lakepoint always planned on taking advantage of.
Are you saying that LakePoint has always planned on using bankruptcy to renegotiate their deals with PG (and other parties like vendors) from the very beginning?
atlnon posted:CaCO3Girl posted:atlnon posted:I wonder what kind of deal PG has with LakePoint. If PG has a very good deal, maybe LakePoint decided it gave away too much and they are not able to make a profit, hence the bankruptcy filing, and the filing allowed LakePoint to renegotiate causing PG to walk away?
The bankruptcy was a legal loophole Lakepoint always planned on taking advantage of.
Are you saying that LakePoint has always planned on using bankruptcy to renegotiate their deals with PG (and other parties like vendors) from the very beginning?
https://www.mdjonline.com/news...56-43d38feea3b8.html
“This is very much like what Delta’s gone through and some other large corporations when they reorganize with new dollars,” Ehrhart said. “In layman’s terms, it’s a prearranged reorganization, and those are done through the bankruptcy courts. … There’s still 2 million visitors a year coming through there.”
Likewise, the sports complex’s main investor, Rimrock Capital, said in a statement that the process, which the statement refers to as “recapitalization,” was planned and will make the complex more financially stable in the long run.
I'm not saying anything about PG. I'm saying lakepoint is using a well known loophole, it was their plan B if things started to go sideways, and with projects like this they almost always go sideways.
CaCO3Girl posted:atlnon posted:I wonder what kind of deal PG has with LakePoint. If PG has a very good deal, maybe LakePoint decided it gave away too much and they are not able to make a profit, hence the bankruptcy filing, and the filing allowed LakePoint to renegotiate causing PG to walk away?
The bankruptcy was a legal loophole Lakepoint always planned on taking advantage of.
I seriously doubt if the original investors in LakePoint Land LLC ever envisioned getting involved with a private equity firm and losing their majority ownership.
MidAtlanticDad posted:CaCO3Girl posted:atlnon posted:I wonder what kind of deal PG has with LakePoint. If PG has a very good deal, maybe LakePoint decided it gave away too much and they are not able to make a profit, hence the bankruptcy filing, and the filing allowed LakePoint to renegotiate causing PG to walk away?
The bankruptcy was a legal loophole Lakepoint always planned on taking advantage of.
I seriously doubt if the original investors in LakePoint Land LLC ever envisioned getting involved with a private equity firm and losing their majority ownership.
Agree to disagree on that one.
This is a high end real life monopoly game.
Hoover is no replacement for metro Atlanta considering how many other fields are required during a typical large PG event.
IF PG is considering leaving and does, LP isn’t going to have a 10th of the visitors related to baseball. IMHO, it folds.
Shoveit4Ks posted:Hoover is no replacement for metro Atlanta considering how many other fields are required during a typical large PG event.
IF PG is considering leaving and does, LP isn’t going to have a 10th of the visitors related to baseball. IMHO, it folds
“OPENING AUGUST 2018, The Hoover Met Complex’s state-of-art outdoor baseball complex features:
- Five (5) NCAA regulation-size baseball/softball fields:
- Four (4) artificial turf fields
- One (1) natural grass field
Each field is equipped with a scoreboard and LED field lighting, including 50-foot infield candles and 30-foot outfield candles.
For younger players, the four turf fields can be broken up at the corners, transforming them into eight regulation youth-size fields. Our facilities will also include ten (10) batting cages for athletes and coaches to reserve.”
It’s not LP but I guess they can pull in high school fields as well.
Shoveit4Ks posted:Hoover is no replacement for metro Atlanta considering how many other fields are required during a typical large PG event.
IF PG is considering leaving and does, LP isn’t going to have a 10th of the visitors related to baseball. IMHO, it folds.
Unless another similar competitor in the marketplace who is willing to operate on thinner margins decides its worth the cost to rent the place. Let’s face it, finally for once, that the only people who made money on Lakepoint since it’s inceptio was PG due to their sweetheart deal. If that is gone, then we may see others using the venue.