I can say with certainty, if PG pulls out of LP the only thing out there that will make money and survive will be the Chick-Fil-A.
Shoveit4Ks posted:I can say with certainty, if PG pulls out of LP the only thing out there that will make money and survive will be the Chick-Fil-A.
And Loves Travel Center Gas Station - the business that was originally in that area before LakePoint was even conceived.
I sure hope V-Tool, PBR, or whoever continues to thrive and provide some level of competition. Monopoly bad.
Buckeye 2015 posted:I wonder if it's possible that PG will end up with a stake in LakePoint....or even buy out the baseball portion? Seems like that may be an easier route than trying to start from scratch. It is a good location, just seems like LakePoint got too big too fast and maybe revenue couldn't keep up with the costs to build the place
Probably doesn't make sense for PG to have much, if any, capital or debt tied up in land and baseball fields. They draw hotel, restaurant, and tourist dollars to wherever they host tournaments. For many municipalities it makes sense to make sweetheart deals with PG because of the boon it brings to the local economy. I think this article about Lee County FL from 2016 has been posted here before:
"This year, Perfect Game has 46 events scheduled in the county. That’s 15 more than were held last year, when it generated a record $26 million of the county’s $61 million in visitor spending from sports tourism other than spring training. Perfect Game filled an estimated 62,800 hotel room nights, many of them during the slow summer months.
For now, Perfect Game events are played rent-free other than $500 a month for a utility bill, at four Lee County-owned stadiums, 39 county-managed baseball fields and sometimes other area fields on loan to the county. Soon, Perfect Game may have a much larger, single-site venue to generate, and make, even more money."
https://www.news-press.com/sto...s-millions/85920274/
As Shove hinted at, this is probably just part of a negotiation. LakePoint (and the surrounding region) needs PG. The new owners at LakePoint probably want to renegotiate a more favorable deal, but PG has almost no reason to do that.
CatcherDadNY posted:Something in PA or Massachusetts would make sense in my opinion...lots of teams.
As much as I would like to see this happen, the remote fields are just too poor to host such big events. Seeing some of the HS fields in Georgia was like going to another planet after playing up north so long. The high school fields in the northeast are baddddd. Now imagine how bad they are in the summer when the players aren't there everyday watering, raking, and mowing.
I always wondered how PG would do if they rented out Diamond Nation for a week, but there just aren't enough fields in the area.
CatcherDadNY posted:Something in PA or Massachusetts would make sense in my opinion...lots of teams.
There are only 14M people in all of New England. Hotels are very expensive in the summer. It wouldn’t make good business sense to be there. If PG builds a Northeast facility the NJ-PA I-78 corridor probably makes the most sense.
Anybody want to go half and we'll throw $1000 in rent money on top of that $500 utility bill charge and see if Lee County will give us those 4 stadiums and 39 fields to use for the summer? Sweet deal for PG to say the least 
Too many teams in GA and I think Pg has done well at lake point. Tournament fees are high for Pg but they are not the biggest cost associated with travel ball. I think if they chose to raise fees maybe 4-500 per tournament to cover higher cost at Lakepoint, teams would pay it without question. Most teams have 20ish players so $20-25 per kid additional per tournament.
Combination of central airport, a lot of quality fields on the north side of Atlanta. Central location for the southeast, I think they will work it out. PG loses income without Lakepoint and Lakepoint really loses money without PG. it benefits both to work it out.
If PG is really out of lakepoint, which I still don’t believe, it opens the door for others. PBR just came to GA, they have had some showcases but claiming stake on LP would secure their position. Also Triple Crown is big here...they could take over LP.
It won’t be empty guys, someone will snatch it up.
Maybe I’m foolish but I can’t see PBR, Triple Crown or any other organization bringing the volume of teams that PG could.
Most high school kids are playing PG, not Triple Crown, right?
atlnon posted:Shoveit4Ks posted:I can say with certainty, if PG pulls out of LP the only thing out there that will make money and survive will be the Chick-Fil-A.
And Loves Travel Center Gas Station - the business that was originally in that area before LakePoint was even conceived.
Agree on Loves, who doesn't love a good, clean truck stop? Breaker 1-9
Shoveit4Ks posted:atlnon posted:Shoveit4Ks posted:I can say with certainty, if PG pulls out of LP the only thing out there that will make money and survive will be the Chick-Fil-A.
And Loves Travel Center Gas Station - the business that was originally in that area before LakePoint was even conceived.
Agree on Loves, who doesn't love a good, clean truck stop? Breaker 1-9
LoL
hshuler posted:Maybe I’m foolish but I can’t see PBR, Triple Crown or any other organization bringing the volume of teams that PG could.
Most high school kids are playing PG, not Triple Crown, right?
TC would have to change to be more like PG.
My understanding is that in other states PBR and PG are neck and neck.
This may be a great opportunity for Wilson to expand its footprint in the Southeast. There would be a natural affiliation with East Cobb, and Wilson has established its name as being able to pull in top competition. Maybe they expand outside of their "Wilson" organizations?.?.
CaCO3Girl posted:hshuler posted:Maybe I’m foolish but I can’t see PBR, Triple Crown or any other organization bringing the volume of teams that PG could.
Most high school kids are playing PG, not Triple Crown, right?
TC would have to change to be more like PG.
My understanding is that in other states PBR and PG are neck and neck.
In Texas, for play, V-Tool outdoes PG. My opinion.
I think within a few years PBR is a contender. Their new tournaments are using MLB spring training facilities and they can pull coaches.
And Waffle House
CaCO3Girl posted:hshuler posted:Maybe I’m foolish but I can’t see PBR, Triple Crown or any other organization bringing the volume of teams that PG could.
Most high school kids are playing PG, not Triple Crown, right?
TC would have to change to be more like PG.
My understanding is that in other states PBR and PG are neck and neck.
PBR is about 10 years behind PG right now. They can compete when it comes to showcases, but that is about it. They don't really have tournaments and the brand isn't there yet. To build up to a 400 team tournament with roughly 75% of all D1 coaches present will take years. PBR actually covered the Jupiter WWBA if that tells you anything.
Triple Crown is irrelevant when it comes to recruiting. They can take LP, but nobody will be traveling hundreds of miles to play there.
Amazing how many responses/opinions are posted on PGs business.
Needless to say, that wherever they go; Y’all will follow.
Just sayin’
Does Lakepoint need 300 team tournaments?? I’m not sure what the costs to rent the fields are, but if my quick math is right. Then the 8 fields will only support about 100 teams. This is for a four day tournament with A 4 game guarantee ???
if you spread that across 3 age groups, it’s about 33 teams per age group. That is possible without pulling teams from outside of a 2-3 hour drive. But to charge the fees that PG charges, you would have to draw scouts and provide more than others are currently offering. I think it would take a partnership between several companies to make it possible.
Question in my mind is with the number of teams that is has been able to draw and the fees charged. If PG can’t make the numbers work to thier benefit, then probably no one else can???
WWBA GEORGIA pre lakepoint
240ish teams @ $2000= $480k
this year at lake point
390ish teams @ $3000=$1,170,000
I am sure you can’t contrubute all of this to lake point but is PG willing to take that risk?
Keep in mind, this is only one tournament for one age group
Lakepoint would have to be asking something outrageous for PG to actually pull out.
PABaseball posted:CaCO3Girl posted:hshuler posted:Maybe I’m foolish but I can’t see PBR, Triple Crown or any other organization bringing the volume of teams that PG could.
Most high school kids are playing PG, not Triple Crown, right?
TC would have to change to be more like PG.
My understanding is that in other states PBR and PG are neck and neck.
PBR is about 10 years behind PG right now. They can compete when it comes to showcases, but that is about it. They don't really have tournaments and the brand isn't there yet. To build up to a 400 team tournament with roughly 75% of all D1 coaches present will take years. PBR actually covered the Jupiter WWBA if that tells you anything.
Triple Crown is irrelevant when it comes to recruiting. They can take LP, but nobody will be traveling hundreds of miles to play there.
I agree to an extent but I think that PBR catches up quicker than that. If you have ever been to their futures games, it is more coaches than I have ever seen including WWBA. If they keep it somewhat select I think they become huge for recruiting.
$tinky posted:
there has been extensive conversation on this site over the years on PG role, mission, revenue requirements and if they are the "right fit" for many of the players and teams that come to the events.
I think based on the comments on the link it should be pretty obvious that PG is thinking somewhat different then what has been claimed in the past by many, revenue growth is obviously the primary motivator at this point in time for them and the argument over if they can be discussed as a normal business or some mystical baseball guardian angel can be put to bed.
For better or worse PG has transitioned in a growth oriented business looking to make better returns as the primary method of daily operation. I don't fault them at all, I even support them as a capitalist to do whatever they see fit with the high quality product and brand recognition they have....but at least the argument is now clear.
With all of this INTEL over the past 2 weeks, can anyone venture to guess the following.
when will they go public?
just attempting to steer the topic in another direction
Doug’s is awesome as well and will remain a top eating destination but the PG boom had to quadruple their business in the summers. Love that spot.
So, the press release says they will move their tournaments from LakePoint in 2020. Does that mean they will play tournaments there in 2019?
Also, what does this mean:
"The situation regarding LakePoint's uncertainty was a catalyst for Perfect Game to begin its search for its own facilities. In Georgia's Cobb County (home of the Atlanta Braves), the annual economic impact that Perfect Game brings with it is pegged at $139M by Cobb County officials making it a one-of-a-kind property."
That second sentence doesn't even make sense. I guess they have begun talking with Cobb County "officials." Sounds more like the economic development folks than the planning and zoning folks. But are they also suggesting they already have a "one-of-a-kind property" in Cobb County? That would be surprising. Land values are much higher in Cobb than Bartow, so the development costs for a complex like the 129-acre complex they are building in Iowa would be quite high. Also, is there even a parcel of land that size left in Cobb that would be appropriate for a large baseball tournament complex? Doubtful in the central or east side of the county, which is already heavily developed and mostly just infill development now. Maybe West Cobb, off I-20, near Six Flags? And, could they have something ready by 2020 when they say they want to move their tournaments? They'd have to be breaking ground immediately, right?
I tend to agree with others that this looks more like posturing during renegotiations with LakePoint. They're just trying to get a more favorable lease going forward.
Triple Crown's GA director is now with PG.
atlnon posted:Triple Crown's GA director is now with PG.
Tony is a great guy, I wish him luck!
baseballhs posted:PABaseball posted:PBR is about 10 years behind PG right now. They can compete when it comes to showcases, but that is about it. They don't really have tournaments and the brand isn't there yet. To build up to a 400 team tournament with roughly 75% of all D1 coaches present will take years. PBR actually covered the Jupiter WWBA if that tells you anything.
Triple Crown is irrelevant when it comes to recruiting. They can take LP, but nobody will be traveling hundreds of miles to play there.
I agree to an extent but I think that PBR catches up quicker than that. If you have ever been to their futures games, it is more coaches than I have ever seen including WWBA. If they keep it somewhat select I think they become huge for recruiting.
I have never been to futures games but have heard good things. I just see PBR as a more local version of PG. There's no doubt they're competition, but I don't see them building tournaments up to PG level for a long time. They would most likely have to start small with 30 or so teams and work their way up. I think them covering the Jupiter event shows that they have to still go out of their way to cover the best players (they aren't coming to them), which I think puts them about 7-10 years behind. I think their best bet is partnering up with some of the better travel teams and promoting their guys.
PABaseball posted:baseballhs posted:PABaseball posted:PBR is about 10 years behind PG right now. They can compete when it comes to showcases, but that is about it. They don't really have tournaments and the brand isn't there yet. To build up to a 400 team tournament with roughly 75% of all D1 coaches present will take years. PBR actually covered the Jupiter WWBA if that tells you anything.
Triple Crown is irrelevant when it comes to recruiting. They can take LP, but nobody will be traveling hundreds of miles to play there.
I agree to an extent but I think that PBR catches up quicker than that. If you have ever been to their futures games, it is more coaches than I have ever seen including WWBA. If they keep it somewhat select I think they become huge for recruiting.
I have never been to futures games but have heard good things. I just see PBR as a more local version of PG. There's no doubt they're competition, but I don't see them building tournaments up to PG level for a long time. They would most likely have to start small with 30 or so teams and work their way up. I think them covering the Jupiter event shows that they have to still go out of their way to cover the best players (they aren't coming to them), which I think puts them about 7-10 years behind. I think their best bet is partnering up with some of the better travel teams and promoting their guys.
PG goes to PBR, PBR goes to PG. How else does a kid who has never played a PG event get ranked by them? And vice versa?
I'm not sure PG goes to PBR events. Even if they were, they're not filming and writing articles on them. I don't see why they would have to. They have all of the top events (PG All American, PG National, WWBA, Jupiter). The rest of the rankings you can get referrals from Area Code, ECP, Team USA, etc.
I also don't put too much stock into rankings. A top 150 player on our summer team isn't even a starter
CaCO3Girl posted:PG goes to PBR, PBR goes to PG. How else does a kid who has never played a PG event get ranked by them? And vice versa?
They hear about kids. The # 4 PG ranked 2020 has never played a PG event of any kind. He is, however, good at baseball, so PG has heard about him and had people see him. PG has scouts at USA Baseball, Area Codes, NHSI, Boras Classic, and probably some other events (maybe Arizona Fall Classics?)
On a much smaller scale, there are lots and lots of kids who get ranked, say, 500, by PG without playing PG events. I don't know what network of scouts they have, but it is apparently extensive.
LakePoint contributes eight fields toward the biggest tourneys, summertime WWBA. The real benefit of LakePoint is college scouts can see 16 teams in a single time slot in one location. That's what would be gone if PG pulled out. The Atalanta area should be able to handle the remainder of the tournament sans LakePoint. The vast majority of teams get a single game at LakePoint so I don't think much changes from their perspective.
CaCO3Girl posted:PABaseball posted:baseballhs posted:PABaseball posted:PBR is about 10 years behind PG right now. They can compete when it comes to showcases, but that is about it. They don't really have tournaments and the brand isn't there yet. To build up to a 400 team tournament with roughly 75% of all D1 coaches present will take years. PBR actually covered the Jupiter WWBA if that tells you anything.
Triple Crown is irrelevant when it comes to recruiting. They can take LP, but nobody will be traveling hundreds of miles to play there.
I agree to an extent but I think that PBR catches up quicker than that. If you have ever been to their futures games, it is more coaches than I have ever seen including WWBA. If they keep it somewhat select I think they become huge for recruiting.
I have never been to futures games but have heard good things. I just see PBR as a more local version of PG. There's no doubt they're competition, but I don't see them building tournaments up to PG level for a long time. They would most likely have to start small with 30 or so teams and work their way up. I think them covering the Jupiter event shows that they have to still go out of their way to cover the best players (they aren't coming to them), which I think puts them about 7-10 years behind. I think their best bet is partnering up with some of the better travel teams and promoting their guys.
PG goes to PBR, PBR goes to PG. How else does a kid who has never played a PG event get ranked by them? And vice versa?
PG prides itself as a scouting service. They gather information on top kids who don’t attend PG events.
GaryMe posted:Pitchingfan, I agree that to have the WWBA in it's current state it would probably need to be held in a metropolitan area as you described, but with the advantages of field availability and lodging availability come the downside of traffic, increased expense for lodging due to being in a metro area, etc.
I don't think for a minute think that PG gives a modicum of thought as to the impact of where the event is played, airline hubs, etc as it relates to the teams. I really don't. I do however feel that PG would love to "grow the sport" (which means increase their revenue) and by not being tied to an 8-field complex in rural Georgia, they may be able to do that. Hell, LakePoint is 45 miles from Atlanta. Throw is ATL traffic and that is a freaking nightmare scenario, and that is only 8 of probably a hundred fields that they utilize...so leaving LakePoint itself is not a huge factor on the event. Leaving a metro area is more of an impact.
IF PG were listening and decided to "regionalize" the WWBA event (Southeast, Northeast, Mid Atlanta, Central Plains, West Coast/Rocky Mtn States) they would get far more teams to participate because the travel would not be as prohibitive. Then they could hold a "WWBA World Championship" for say the top 10 teams at each event at a premium venue.
It's a start:
https://twitter.com/PerfectGam.../1063491902752923650
https://www.perfectgame.org/Ev...ault.aspx?event=8753
That’s a stab.
only a small part of the marketing scheme I’m sure
Dont hate the player, hate the game
Recruiters love it and non-southern parents seek teams going to PG events and MLB secures life-long fans
No one gets hurts here.
why the hate?
I wonder what this means for Triple Crown in Ga? Sounds like PG basically bought them out.
How do you spell MONOPOLY
Yeah, they just put the 2019 schedules up and the prices seem a bit higher than they were in 18. At least they are for some events. I saw a couple of 4gg for 14u that were $1250.