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PLAYER APPEARANCE = MEXICAN STANDOFF

TPMTPMHSBaseballweb Member since 2003
quote:
Originally posted by CADad:
I doubt that the coach was a total clown. He's had some very successful teams. In fact, the kid told me about an incident that seemed to be the straw that broke the camel's back and I thought the coach was technically in the right in that particular instance. I'm only going from what the kid told me and what I've heard but I think it was simply a kid who had become very successful doing it his own way and a coach who was trying to exert authority who was telling him he couldn't keep doing what was working so well. The kid is extremely intelligent and had developed himself into a top talent through hard work and dedication to a program he believed in and wasn't going to change. The coach kept using the "my way or the highway" ploy and the kid called his bluff.

To be honest I can't fault the coach or the kid in this particular situation. I just wanted to bring out the point that we tend to make some overly strong assumptions about kids and coaches based on our personal biases. I'm certainly as guilty of that as the next person.


I finally figured out what you are getting at.
Was this a situation where the player wouldn't abide by the coaches rule, or just wanted to do something else, play another position, etc. If so that has nothing to do with not accepting team rules, does it?
Coach WaltripCoach Waltrip100+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by CADad:
I'm only going from what the kid told me and what I've heard but I think it was simply a kid who had become very successful doing it his own way and a coach who was trying to exert authority who was telling him he couldn't keep doing what was working so well. The kid is extremely intelligent and had developed himself into a top talent through hard work and dedication to a program he believed in and wasn't going to change. The coach kept using the "my way or the highway" ploy and the kid called his bluff.



That's a good point CADad, if a kid doesn't like the coach or his rules he can either relent or walk...In OODaddyO's case his kid walked and now he is looking for validation of this decision which he is obviously disappointed about...

The fact is coaches are not always right and there may be valid reasons to walk, but what we have here with OODaddyO's kid is someone who is proud of his hair and thinks the coach should relent for his sake alone. For the kid’s hair for all things...a battle, which is doomed to failure...and seems to me, to be an unwise crusade for a parent to pursue...

Imagine for a moment if the coach did relent with Jr. OODaddyO. There is little doubt, players and parents would soon lose respect for the coach and his rules... Inevitably, another rule would soon be challenged, then another...resulting in undercutting the foundation of the team. It’s very possible there may have been other kids he told to get a haircut and did. Imagine what these kid(s) would think if the coach caved on Jr OODaddyO’s hair, but they followed the rule? Most certainly a drop in team morale would soon follow because the coach caved causing other issues to be questioned by players and parents. It is very conceivable that this could result in a long and losing season where respect for the team and the coach deteriorate over the course of the season. From anybody's perspective, challenging a coach on such an elementary rule is a losing strategy all the way around...

We are not talking about civil rights or a coach trying to get a kid to throw his arm out or to run 10 miles on a hot a summer day without water...we are talking about a simple rule that is being challenged as if he coach has committed a serious felony. It is evident OODaddyO needs to take a step back...a big step back and stop trying to rationalize Jr OODaddyO’s decision with such lofty, elaborate and arrogant explanations of a 16 year olds motivations. The kid just did not want to get his haircut and thought he could get the coach to relent with dad’s pressure. That’s all...nothing more, nothing less. Additionally, he should stop trying to define this coach’s attitude as out of control, manipulating and irrational. Just what is OODaddyO trying to teach his kid here by such a ridiculous fight?

Anybody who has been around good cohesive teams know that respect for the rules, whether right or wrong, is a common thread throughout and does not undercut the coach's directions or rules. It just doesn't typically happen, unless you were the 1977 Yankees of course...

OODaddyO, I wish the best for your son...maybe one day he will be a fine doctor and he will look back at his decision to quit the baseball team over his hair and laugh about it as a youthful mis-step...nothing more, nothing less...
Last edited by Coach Waltrip
B Bear1,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by theEH:
....He took one look at me with my long stringy hair and Said, You get a Hair-Cut and come back and talk to me. ...I got a hair-cut that night, and showed up the next day.


Almost cut my hair
It happened just the other day
It's gettin' kind of long
I could've said it was in my way

But I didn't and I wonder why
I feel like letting my freak flag fly
And I feel like I owe it, to someone

Must be because I had the flu for Christmas
And I'm not feeling up to par
It increases my paranoia
Like looking in my mirror and seeing a police car

But I'm not giving in an inch to fear
çause I've promised myself this year
I feel like I owe it, to someone
TurnTwoNetTurnTwoNet100+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by PGStaff:
Whatever happened to doing what the coach wants? One rule we had for our boys was very simple. THE COACH IS ALWAYS RIGHT!

We all know that coaches are not always right. However, it makes life easier if that is the attitude of the player.



VERY True! This reminded me of a situation my younger son encountered on his first LL All Star team. The coach spent most of the practice teaching the team how to do run downs in the event they caught a player between bases. He told them just about everything different than I'd ever heard before. After the practice, as we were driving home, my son told me the coach didn't know how to do run downs. I explained to him that different coaches had different ways of doing things and that he needed to do it the way the coach wanted while he was a part of that team...He "got" it and asked if he should still do it "the right way" with his travel team! I said yes...

Coaches decide how the team will play, act and appear...if the young man doesn't like it, that's fine - he's not being forced to play by the coach, but he is being forced to be part of the team if he chooses to play...that is a decision for him to make and his parents to advise him on...once it is done, he will have to live with the decision...sounds like he is fine with it, but Dad hasn't come to terms with it yet..
J journey2100+ posts
Am just so glad there is not such a battle over long hair around here. Arriving for workouts this weekend, several of our players again noted to one of our coachs it was too cold outside to get their hair cut. Towards the end of the 2 hour indoor practice, out of the blue, "Shaggy" (my youngest) made the comment, he was ready for it to warm up, & maybe the team getting haircuts would bring on Spring weather Roll Eyes Received a text late last night, two have already had their ears lowered, & the weather is looking real promising, dry till end of the week & 55 degrees on Weds, boys first team fielding practice. Needless to say, my boy has an appt to get his whacked this afternoon. Life is good Smile
RJMRJMHSBaseballWeb member since 2007
quote:
How bad do you want to play?
If my son was told if he shaved his head and ran naked down Main Street he would play at the college of his choice, his only questions would be, "Where are the shears? Where's the start and finish line?" I guess it's a matter of how badly a player wants something.

Add: He might need to know how much is bail.
Last edited by RJM
Coach_MayCoach_May10,000+ posts
I will go on record saying "Any hs baseball player that decides that he would rather not play than get a hair cut really is saying he just doesnt want to play."

There might be other reasons outside of the hair cut. He might be using the hair cut rule as an excuse because there are other reasons. But it still comes down to he just doesnt want to play.

If he really wanted to play a hair cut would not be able to stop him.
D dswann100+ posts
Now I get it. I suspect the poetic waxings on being an individual the reference to the 3K team, quotes on indivuality, etc are your way of validating his decision to drop baseball.

Your a baseball guy and have resigned to the fact that your boy is done at least at the HS level maybe beyond. Of course you'll miss it. I will too. It's not if, but when this ride will come to an end. Did you really expect the coach to change his mind? How disappointing would that have been.

Attrition in baseball comes in many forms. Your son has opted for a self imposed early exit.

FWIW. Got the Call may been the appropriate forum.
CS coach scotty10+ posts
I read through this entire post and although it's long enough I just had to post this story.

When I was in HS I had this almost exact same experience. It was my freshman year during spring practice and I was going out for varsity football. Now our coach had a rule if he could see hair when your helmet was on you didn't play for him. Which pretty much means a buzz cut. Anyway I though "no way he will cut me". "I am the best athlete in the school". So I showed up first day of practice with hair down to my shoulders and sure enough. Coach said get of my field and don't come back till your hair is cut. I actually had the audacity to ask "but do you know who I am" He replied nope I don't know kids that are not on my team. Then smiled and walked off.

So I get home that night and told my father what happened. He ask what I was going to do and I told him I hadn't decided yet but it was my hair and the coach had no right to tell me how to wear it. He said don't worry boy I'll take care of it. I'll fix the problem. I remember thinking oh yeah the coach is going to get it now. Dad's gonna kick his a**. So later that night at supper I heard a buzzing noise as I felt something go up the back of my head. My father had taken a pair of clippers and cut a line right up the back of my head. When I looked around at him in disbelief. HE said there ya go problem solved. He handed me the clippers and said now go even it up.
OnWabanaOnWabana100+ posts
Wow. Quotes from Galileo and Mencken, huh? I'm impressed he can quote something other than Dumb and Dumber, which is more than can be said for most of today's youth.

Just make sure he realizes that he's not battling Comstock Laws and I don't think he's invented anything quite on par with the telescope.

--------------------------
Last edited by OnWabana
Coach_MayCoach_May10,000+ posts
Love that story Scotty. My dad was a Command Sgt Major in the US Army. No one called him by name. They called him Sgt Major , Sir. We called him Dad. So did Mom. We had many strict rules around the house. And we were expected to treat everyone with respect. There were many days I cursed him under my breath. There were many days I wished I could be like some of the kids I went to school with and lived in the neihborhood. We all had buzz cuts. We had to work in the yard. Cut the grass , trim the shrubs , clear brush , work the gardens and we had to work on my grand pa's farm every summer in tobacco. It wasnt our choice. In fact very few things were.

When we reached the hs years we were told "If you want to play games you can. If you do you will give everything you have or you lose the right to play. I never got to play games as a kid. I had to drop out of school when I was 12 to support the family like all my brothers. So I want you guys to have the chance to play games if you want to."

My dad walked out of the tobacco fields at 18 and to the recruiters office to enlist in the Army. He got his hs diploma while in the Army. He later got his college degree with the GI Bill while in the Army. He never got to play any sports or as he would call them "games."

So I remember coming home after a practice where the football coach was very upset with our performance the previous Friday night. When we came to practice he said "No need for footballs today. No need for anything other than your cleats. Today I am going to find out who really wants to be out here." The entire practice we ran. Laps , sprints , grass drills etc. It was pure hell. But we did find out who really wanted to be there. The ones that were left when practice ended. We did not lose again that year. But that night I came home after puking my brains out I fell out on the couch. My Dad says "Whats wrong with you." I said "Coach killed us today. He ran us the entire practice." I could not get another word out because my Dad sat up looked me straight in the eyes and said "Boy when I was 18 years old I was in Korea. Me and a bunch of other boys your exact age. We were not playing games. If your not tough enough to handle it like a man then turn in your uniform. Dont you ever come in here again and complain about your coach. Dont you ever complain about playing games again. I never got to play games."

I never said another word. I got it. My Dad never missed a game. He was the guy that always cheered the loudest. All those things I used to hate and all those things that I used to think were stupid and had no value he made us do and live by. Those are all the things that have made me who I am. They are the things he gave me I will always cherish. He taught me the value of hard work. Sacrifice , discipline and commitment. I was allowed to make choices but I was made aware with those choices were consequences.

My Dad thank God was not my friend when I needed a Dad. He was my best friend when I needed him to be my best friend. And that was after I had become a man. Its easy to , very easy to be your kids friend. The problem is they got friends. They need you to be a father. Its alot harder to be a Dad. But thats what they need.

Playing a game is not your right. Making up the rules is not up to you. It is an honor and a priviledge to get to play games. It is an honor to represent your school , class mates and community. And your also representing every person that ever played for your school and program. If your not willing to run through a brick wall to get a jersey then you dont deserve one. If your playing is contingent on someone changing a rule so you WILL play. Then you simply dont deserve that right. Your kid has it all wrong. And so do you Dad. Others can disagree with me thats fine it doesnt bother me to be different. But maybe a few months in the tobacco field humping some leaf and maybe a few months not playing games but actually working would give him a different perspective on what games really are about.
Last edited by Coach_May
RJMRJMHSBaseballWeb member since 2007
quote:
Originally posted by Coach_May:
Love that story Scotty. My dad was a Command Sgt Major in the US Army. No one called him by name. They called him Sgt Major , Sir. We called him Dad. So did Mom. We had many strict rules around the house. And we were expected to treat everyone with respect. There were many days I cursed him under my breath. There were many days I wished I could be like some of the kids I went to school with and lived in the neihborhood. We all had buzz cuts. We had to work in the yard. Cut the grass , trim the shrubs , clear brush , work the gardens and we had to work on my grand pa's farm every summer in tobacco. It wasnt our choice. In fact very few things were.

When we reached the hs years we were told "If you want to play games you can. If you do you will give everything you have or you lose the right to play. I never got to play games as a kid. I had to drop out of school when I was 12 to support the family like all my brothers. So I want you guys to have the chance to play games if you want to."

My dad walked out of the tobacco fields at 18 and to the recruiters office to enlist in the Army. He got his hs diploma while in the Army. He later got his college degree with the GI Bill while in the Army. He never got to play any sports or as he would call them "games."

So I remember coming home after a practice where the football coach was very upset with our performance the previous Friday night. When we came to practice he said "No need for footballs today. No need for anything other than your cleats. Today I am going to find out who really wants to be out here." The entire practice we ran. Laps , sprints , grass drills etc. It was pure hell. But we did find out who really wanted to be there. The ones that were left when practice ended. We did not lose again that year. But that night I came home after puking my brains out I fell out on the couch. My Dad says "Whats wrong with you." I said "Coach killed us today. He ran us the entire practice." I could not get another word out because my Dad sat up looked me straight in the eyes and said "Boy when I was 18 years old I was in Korea. Me and a bunch of other boys your exact age. We were not playing games. If your not tough enough to handle it like a man then turn in your uniform. Dont you ever come in here again and complain about your coach. Dont you ever complain about playing games again. I never got to play games."

I never said another word. I got it. My Dad never missed a game. He was the guy that always cheered the loudest. All those things I used to hate and all those things that I used to think were stupid and had no value he made us do and live by. Those are all the things that have made me who I am. They are the things he gave me I will always cherish. He taught me the value of hard work. Sacrifice , discipline and commitment. I was allowed to make choices but I was made aware with those choices were consequences.

My Dad thank God was not my friend when I needed a Dad. He was my best friend when I needed him to be my best friend. And that was after I had become a man. Its easy to , very easy to be your kids friend. The problem is they got friends. They need you to be a father. Its alot harder to be a Dad. But thats what they need.

Playing a game is not your right. Making up the rules is not up to you. It is an honor and a priviledge to get to play games. It is an honor to represent your school , class mates and community. And your also representing every person that ever played for your school and program. If your not willing to run through a brick wall to get a jersey then you dont deserve one. If your playing is contingent on someone changing a rule so you WILL play. Then you simply dont deserve that right. Your kid has it all wrong. And so do you Dad. Others can disagree with me thats fine it doesnt bother me to be different. But maybe a few months in the tobacco field humping some leaf and maybe a few months not playing games but actually working would give him a different perspective on what games really are about.
Unfortunately these kinds of values are slipping away from society because some candy butt kid's feelings might get hurt.
WklinkWklink500+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by catfish342:
I was actually somewhat sympathetic to 00'sDad dilemma until he came back and posted that picture. That was some weak stuff. If you don't want opinions, then don't ask. Just because there are people who disagree with you doesn't make them narrow-minded bigots.



Agreed. Pretty pathetic 00dad. You stated you wanted opinions then you throw out some stupid picture correlating people who think your kid should maybe compromise on this issue with Klansmen.

Very weak. Throwing out junk like this means you think your arguement is weak and to 'win' you have to slander the person you disagree with.

If you think your kid was right to refuse playing because he wants his hair long then fine. Support him. But don't slander those of us that think playing for a baseball team means being part of that team. If the team rules state something and a kid doesn't want to follow the rules then he is fine not playing but don't come here whining about it and then get upset when people may not agree with you.
kjktjkjktj100+ posts
I maybe repeating: Bill Walton showed up to the 1st practice in his Jr. or Sr. year.with hair down to his shoulders. Coach John Wooden suggested he shorten his hair. Walton politely refused saying Coach couldn't direct him in how to wear it. Wooden agreed, but let Walton know he could determine the who played. Walton came to practice the next day with a haircut
RJMRJMHSBaseballWeb member since 2007
There are 264 posts in this thread made by probably at least 100 posters. Are there any that say the kid should be allowed to play without cutting his hair against his coach's wishes? I don't recollect any. Maybe 00Dad thought he was going to see sympathetic parent's responses and didn't like the truth when he saw it repeatedly.

Too bad we probably won't find out what decision was made. I'm guessing 00SON will be asking people if they want ketchup for their fries. But he'll have his principles in tact.
RJMRJMHSBaseballWeb member since 2007
quote:
Originally posted by kjktj:
I maybe repeating: Bill Walton showed up to the 1st practice in his Jr. or Sr. year.with hair down to his shoulders. Coach John Wooden suggested he shorten his hair. Walton politely refused saying Coach couldn't direct him in how to wear it. Wooden agreed, but let Walton know he could determine the who played. Walton came to practice the next day with a haircut
I saw an interview with Walton where he said Wooden was so detailed oriented he taught the team how to put on their uniforms and tie their shoe laces. Walton didn't get it coming in. He loved Wooden coming out.
Coach_MayCoach_May10,000+ posts
No the coach caved into a players demands and lost. It has nothing to do with ability talking. I could careless if your son could throw 105 and could strike out 21 batters a game. If I had a rule and he refused to follow it he wouldnt be on the team. Rules are not contingent on ability. By the way the Coach is a clown.
Last edited by Coach_May
B Brickhouse100+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by 00'sDAD:
No he just stuck to his guns and let his ability do the talking till someone listened .


He stuck to his guns but deprived his teammates of a player that apparently has the ability to start and could have probably helped them him win a few more games last year, but as long as he got what he wanted, that is the important thing.
DB Danny Boydston1,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by Coach_May:
No the coach caved into a players demands and lost. It has nothing to do with ability talking. I could careless if your son could throw 105 and could strike out 21 batters a game. If I had a rule and he refused to follow it he wouldnt be on the team. Rules are not contingent on ability. By the way the Coach is a clown.

And while that would be the appropriate thing to do, you would and do have just as many "clown" coaches who would take the 105/21 over team rules. You see it at every level.
Coach_MayCoach_May10,000+ posts
Come on we all know its not about the team. Its about me. Its about what I want. My hair is more important than you guys. I got to stick by my guns man. And guess what happened? I am such a stud that the coach caved in and let me have my way. See what happens when you stand up for what you believe in? Congrats I am very impressed.
00'sDAD00'sDAD10+ posts
The coach and my son sat down at the first of school this year and talked for about an hour and when they were done he said if he could make the team he could play.
He said he had time to think about it and realized that they both were stubborn and he decided that someone who tried as hard as my son deserved a chance.
coach2709coach270910,000+ posts
Maybe this was discussed in the thread but I'm not going to go back and read 14 pages. Is this a young coach? I hope it is and he figures out what he wants to stand for as a coach and then sticks with it.

Only problem is that once you cave on one thing you start to cave on others. People see you cave on one things they start coming at you to try and cave on others. At some point you totally lose credibility and therefore you lose the team.
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