He's a clown as Coach May put it.
The beginning of the end for this coach.
00's dad let me give you this example. I'm an asst. on a staff that is coaching one of the best seniors in the entire country. Please make sure you read that - I'm coaching on a staff that has one of the best seniors in the country. He gets no special treatment from us. Whatever the rule is that we have he follows it. Now he's like any other kid who will question why and we explain why we have the rule. But if he keeps it up he knows he will get put back in his place quickly.
We don't have a haircut policy but if we did he would get a haircut. One of the main reasons he would get a haircut is because his dad would make him.
The issue here is the haircut policy but it doesn't matter what the rule is - you stick with it.
We don't have a haircut policy but if we did he would get a haircut. One of the main reasons he would get a haircut is because his dad would make him.
The issue here is the haircut policy but it doesn't matter what the rule is - you stick with it.
How good a player is has absolutely nothing to do with it. If it does the coach is a clown. The rules are for everyone because they are the programs rules. I have coached kids who are in the Majors right now. I have coached kids who are playing and have played major college baseball. I never gave one thought to how good they were or how bad they were when I enforced a rule. When a coach starts bending the rules because a player he see's as important to the teams success will not abide by it then he has lost the ability to lead a program. He has lost all respect of his players. He has lost the ability to enforce the rules in the future if they are questioned by another player. In other words this coach sold out if this story is true.
Your son learned a lesson here. If he sticks to his guns and the coach is a clown he will win out in the end. On the other hand if he ever plays for a legit coach he will be on the outside looking in. At least he will be able to say he stuck to his guns. Good luck
Your son learned a lesson here. If he sticks to his guns and the coach is a clown he will win out in the end. On the other hand if he ever plays for a legit coach he will be on the outside looking in. At least he will be able to say he stuck to his guns. Good luck
oo's dad,
You seem to commend your son for sticking to his guns, and the coach for caving from his. The rule would potentially help your son get looks from schools that will not look at him now. Yes, you won. The coach could not stand for his own values, your son learned that if he is stubborn and doesn't appreciate rules he can have his way. I am not sure that is the message I want my son to receive. What happens when he doesn't like the posted speed limit. He sent a message to his team-mates that his hair meant more than his team. That would be his choice, but not one my players would make if they plan on being on my team. You learned that the coach cares for your son, but just doesn't care enough to help him learn about what matters most in life. In order to succeed in life you have to make some sacrifices, this could have been a great lesson your son could have learned for the rest of his life. Teams are much larger than the individual parts. Your son does not play on a true team and will not find the true meaning and joy of being a part of one. I hope some day he gets to experience what it is like to place your teammates first and succeed as a group.
You seem to commend your son for sticking to his guns, and the coach for caving from his. The rule would potentially help your son get looks from schools that will not look at him now. Yes, you won. The coach could not stand for his own values, your son learned that if he is stubborn and doesn't appreciate rules he can have his way. I am not sure that is the message I want my son to receive. What happens when he doesn't like the posted speed limit. He sent a message to his team-mates that his hair meant more than his team. That would be his choice, but not one my players would make if they plan on being on my team. You learned that the coach cares for your son, but just doesn't care enough to help him learn about what matters most in life. In order to succeed in life you have to make some sacrifices, this could have been a great lesson your son could have learned for the rest of his life. Teams are much larger than the individual parts. Your son does not play on a true team and will not find the true meaning and joy of being a part of one. I hope some day he gets to experience what it is like to place your teammates first and succeed as a group.
00's Dad,
I know you're proud of your boy for "sticking to his guns," but there might come a day when throwing away a high school season no longer seems like the crowning achievement of his youth.
Do your son a favor and don't post his information on the "Please identify your son" thread. Give him a chance to live this down once he learns to think about others.
I know you're proud of your boy for "sticking to his guns," but there might come a day when throwing away a high school season no longer seems like the crowning achievement of his youth.
Do your son a favor and don't post his information on the "Please identify your son" thread. Give him a chance to live this down once he learns to think about others.
Great thread taking a simple principle (discipline and team) and twisting it until it is no longer recognizable. It is not about the boy, he is young and stubborn as most of us were at that age. The boy doesn't know squat. In my mind, this is about the coach. At 55 years old he should know better. He is not teaching his players, parents & program anything positive in this sitiuation. He is a clown as Coach May described. Neville Chamberlain would be proud.
Life lessons are learned everyday. Some are learned early and some learned later in life. This lesson is going to have be learned later for both the boy and the coach.
Life lessons are learned everyday. Some are learned early and some learned later in life. This lesson is going to have be learned later for both the boy and the coach.
And apparently by the proud father as well.
I wonder if the Board member friends got involved?
Coach caved.
My son showed up at tryouts last year with longer hair. Coach told him that if he made the team, he'd have to cut his hair. Made the team, cut his hair. Now keeps it short year round and likes it much better.
Coach caved.
My son showed up at tryouts last year with longer hair. Coach told him that if he made the team, he'd have to cut his hair. Made the team, cut his hair. Now keeps it short year round and likes it much better.
Am I the only one calling "BS" on his son playing this year while not cutting his hair in over a year's time? I think the only part that is true is that his son didnt play hs ball last year. Daddy read all the posts that went against him and waited to come back when the season started and tell everyone they were wrong and that his son was opening day starter. I guess we will never really know the truth, but I still think the boy is not playing.
Congrats, big guy, you really showed us who is boss.
Congrats, big guy, you really showed us who is boss.
quote:Originally posted by Mizzoubaseball:
Am I the only one calling "BS" on his son playing this year while not cutting his hair in over a year's time? I think the only part that is true is that his son didnt play hs ball last year. Daddy read all the posts that went against him and waited to come back when the season started and tell everyone they were wrong and that his son was opening day starter. I guess we will never really know the truth, but I still think the boy is not playing.
Congrats, big guy, you really showed us who is boss.
You are probably right.
quote:Originally posted by Strike 3:
I wonder if the Board member friends got involved?
Coach caved.
I wondered if this happened too. If this happened to me they would have to find a new baseball coach.
I bet Jason Werth could have got a lot more than $128 million from the Nationals if he got a haircut and a shave.
It still amazes me that the dad see's this as a positive. Through this whole thing, I've wondered if he's not just a troll trying to rile feathers to get a reaction...anyone with any competitive sense of team would KNOW this goes against the moral fiber of anything related to what it takes to be successful.
I've also wondered, if all true, what the other teammates think...got to create a lot of great team chemistry...especially for others that did cut their hair.
I've also wondered, if all true, what the other teammates think...got to create a lot of great team chemistry...especially for others that did cut their hair.
My humble observations (with the huge reservation that (a) this whole story is B.S. or (2) that the son is now playing is B.S.:
1. I wish someone would've kicked my butt when I did stuff like this at 16 years old. BE A DAD. Oh, and Dad, if you are not conforming at work, you're not working. How's your "stand" going in life?
2. If, in fact, the Coach caved (see my introduction), then the Coach wanted "it" more than the kid. Maybe the Coach loves his job, wants to win, blah, blah, blah. If so, the COACH IS A CLOWN. PERIOD.
1. I wish someone would've kicked my butt when I did stuff like this at 16 years old. BE A DAD. Oh, and Dad, if you are not conforming at work, you're not working. How's your "stand" going in life?
2. If, in fact, the Coach caved (see my introduction), then the Coach wanted "it" more than the kid. Maybe the Coach loves his job, wants to win, blah, blah, blah. If so, the COACH IS A CLOWN. PERIOD.
quote:Originally posted by AntzDad:
I bet Jason Werth could have got a lot more than $128 million from the Nationals if he got a haircut and a shave.
My guess, and it's just a wild guess here, is that the Nationals don't have a rule that Werth would be violating. Just a guess.
I'm also assuming that the Nationals are not a high school team. Again, that's merely an assumption on my part.
Other than these considerations, I'm sure there is a direct comparison.
quote:Originally posted by 00'sDAD:
He's 55 and has coached for years.
Heck, Emmett Kelly performed into his 70's.
Read the entire thread and it raises a ton of interesting questions in my mind:
What is a coach's main objective? Does it change as you go up levels?
Is it to win? At all costs?
Is it to develop players for the next level?
Is it to have a respectable program with respectable community citizens and direct their development as a person?
Is it to teach players life lessons?
This whole thread (viewed from the coaching side) has to do with conflict between these objectives as a coach that was brought on by the player's defiance.
After everything is said and done, will the team win more because the coach gave in?
Assuming yes for the sake of the thought, does that make giving in ok?
Assuming yes, can we blame a coach who's livelihood depends on winning for giving in so he can put food on the table for his family (or have better job security)?
Does a player have any responsibility to his teammates to "fall in line" to get himself into the lineup so he can help the team?
Does a coach have responsibility to his team (and fans, AD, alumni)to play the best nine, no matter what?
Is there a difference between "the best nine individuals" and the best nine that make a TEAM?
Did the coach hurt his own chances of winning by creating a rule that would exclude one of those best nine that would otherwise help the team on the field?
Was the player assuming the fact that the coach would play the players that would give the team the best chance of winning?
Is that a bad assumption?
If it is a bad assumption, what does that say about the coach? He's principled? He's uncompetitive?
If not, then there is probably a difference between how valuable the player thinks he is and how valuable the coach thinks he is.
What is a coach's main objective? Does it change as you go up levels?
Is it to win? At all costs?
Is it to develop players for the next level?
Is it to have a respectable program with respectable community citizens and direct their development as a person?
Is it to teach players life lessons?
This whole thread (viewed from the coaching side) has to do with conflict between these objectives as a coach that was brought on by the player's defiance.
After everything is said and done, will the team win more because the coach gave in?
Assuming yes for the sake of the thought, does that make giving in ok?
Assuming yes, can we blame a coach who's livelihood depends on winning for giving in so he can put food on the table for his family (or have better job security)?
Does a player have any responsibility to his teammates to "fall in line" to get himself into the lineup so he can help the team?
Does a coach have responsibility to his team (and fans, AD, alumni)to play the best nine, no matter what?
Is there a difference between "the best nine individuals" and the best nine that make a TEAM?
Did the coach hurt his own chances of winning by creating a rule that would exclude one of those best nine that would otherwise help the team on the field?
Was the player assuming the fact that the coach would play the players that would give the team the best chance of winning?
Is that a bad assumption?
If it is a bad assumption, what does that say about the coach? He's principled? He's uncompetitive?
If not, then there is probably a difference between how valuable the player thinks he is and how valuable the coach thinks he is.
If he wants to play, he cuts his hair. If the hair means more, he don't play. What's so hard about that?
Taking the whole thing at face value assuming it's all on the up and up...which is a big leap of blind faith........it's really no surprise the kid fights authority.
The father's motto is "Illegitimus non Carborundum" or as folklore would interpret it, "Don't let the *******s grind you down."
The actual literal latin translation is supposed to be
And rural america is a symphony of unusual persons. Most are very well adapted to living at odds with mainstream society. They are attracted to the rural life because of its requirement to be self reliant. The quality of "sticking to ones guns" is more out of practiced habit than a reflection of what might be best in the long run.
So if this is on the up and up....a big IF....you stand a better chance of hitting the powerball than changing their minds.
The father's motto is "Illegitimus non Carborundum" or as folklore would interpret it, "Don't let the *******s grind you down."
The actual literal latin translation is supposed to be
Even after three years of Latin, I couldn't have figured that one out without cheating. The point is apples usually do not fall far from the tree which is another equally accurate saying from folklore.quote:“Noli sinere malos te vexare”
And rural america is a symphony of unusual persons. Most are very well adapted to living at odds with mainstream society. They are attracted to the rural life because of its requirement to be self reliant. The quality of "sticking to ones guns" is more out of practiced habit than a reflection of what might be best in the long run.
So if this is on the up and up....a big IF....you stand a better chance of hitting the powerball than changing their minds.
One of the keys to long term success is being low maintenance and high production. I'm afraid a teachable moment went bye-bye. Let us know if the team gets to .500 this year. It it Coach Herbie, by any chance???
quote:Originally posted by 00'sDAD:
Took last year at school off played on summer and fall travel teams. No haircut again this year but was chose to start opening day game.
I only read the first page and then realized it was started last year, so presumably you are giving us an update.
If I understand you correctly, you are saying your son chose to keep his hair long and did not try out for the team(or was cut)last year, correct?
Then this year for whatever reason the coach and your son came to an agreement about the length of his hair(i.e. not cutting it) and he is on the team?
Is this the varsity coach or the JV coach we are discussing?
Varsity. He made the team last year also but did not want to cut his hair to play as he felt "The length
of his hair had nothing to do with his baseball ability".
of his hair had nothing to do with his baseball ability".
quote:Originally posted by Jimmy03:quote:Originally posted by AntzDad:
I bet Jason Werth could have got a lot more than $128 million from the Nationals if he got a haircut and a shave.
My guess, and it's just a wild guess here, is that the Nationals don't have a rule that Werth would be violating. Just a guess.
I'm also assuming that the Nationals are not a high school team. Again, that's merely an assumption on my part.
Other than these considerations, I'm sure there is a direct comparison.
Maybe, there's a lesson, here. The team that plays at the highest level in the world says, 'if we think you can help our team, it doesn't matter if you look like something the cat dragged in.' I don't know. I'm only guessing.
I find it interesting that 'the coach who caved in' is ridiculed for changing his mind, while at the same time this player who 'won't get a haircut' is lambasted for NOT changing his mind.
Wow...16 pages of replies....why doesnt the most recent page POP UP...and allow US to go back to the beginning if we need to? Reverse the current system.
Westcoast HS and college teams would not have players or their dad using the word cave as in cave in. What does he do or will do when the team travels off sight and team rules say where trousers - sport coat and tie?
Agree with BOF; Should never come to this! He is playing a team sport not golf or tennis.
Lastly I hope this doesn't offend anyone but a won and loss record of 19-5 with velo speeds of 75-80 has really very little to do with it.
Westcoast HS and college teams would not have players or their dad using the word cave as in cave in. What does he do or will do when the team travels off sight and team rules say where trousers - sport coat and tie?
Agree with BOF; Should never come to this! He is playing a team sport not golf or tennis.
Lastly I hope this doesn't offend anyone but a won and loss record of 19-5 with velo speeds of 75-80 has really very little to do with it.
quote:I find it interesting that 'the coach who caved in' is ridiculed for changing his mind, while at the same time this player who 'won't get a haircut' is lambasted for NOT changing his mind.
I find it interesting you confuse the roles of the coach and player. Coach Herbie is the kid's b**** now. The player and coach sound well-suited for each other.
There are rules against dipping at the games also yet every coach and most umps and half the players do it yet no one ever whines we should throw em all out.
My son is a good kid who stood up for what he thought was his right to self expression and last year the coach refused to budge and so did the boy.
There were hard feelings on both sides with some support from parents toward both.
This year instead of just saying screw you they sat down and found they had more in common than they thought and that neither was as bad as the other thought.
It seems to me the lack of respect is coming mostly from all the name callers on here who can't stand
the fact that these two came to a mutual agreement.
My son is a good kid who stood up for what he thought was his right to self expression and last year the coach refused to budge and so did the boy.
There were hard feelings on both sides with some support from parents toward both.
This year instead of just saying screw you they sat down and found they had more in common than they thought and that neither was as bad as the other thought.
It seems to me the lack of respect is coming mostly from all the name callers on here who can't stand
the fact that these two came to a mutual agreement.
quote:Originally posted by 00'sDAD:
There are rules against dipping at the games also yet every coach and most umps and half the players do it yet no one ever whines we should throw em all out.
My son is a good kid who stood up for what he thought was his right to self expression and last year the coach refused to budge and so did the boy.
There were hard feelings on both sides with some support from parents toward both.
This year instead of just saying screw you they sat down and found they had more in common than they thought and that neither was as bad as the other thought.
It seems to me the lack of respect is coming mostly from all the name callers on here who can't stand
the fact that these two came to a mutual agreement.
What did you honestly expect to read?
the difference is the coach made the rule. then he didn't follow his own rule. someone needed to be the adult. jury's still out on that one. 
quote:Originally posted by AntzDad:quote:Originally posted by Jimmy03:quote:Originally posted by AntzDad:
I bet Jason Werth could have got a lot more than $128 million from the Nationals if he got a haircut and a shave.
My guess, and it's just a wild guess here, is that the Nationals don't have a rule that Werth would be violating. Just a guess.
I'm also assuming that the Nationals are not a high school team. Again, that's merely an assumption on my part.
Other than these considerations, I'm sure there is a direct comparison.
Maybe, there's a lesson, here. The team that plays at the highest level in the world says, 'if we think you can help our team, it doesn't matter if you look like something the cat dragged in.' I don't know. I'm only guessing.
So then, there is a direct comparison. The team of professionals is exactly like the team of 16 year olds learning all the elements of the sport including following rules and discipline and who plays what role.
quote:Originally posted by Dad04:
I find it interesting you confuse the roles of the coach and player. The player and coach sound well-suited for each other.
You should be glad the kid found 'the right fit'.
So is the haircut rule gone, or just for your son?
Gone
quote:Originally posted by AntzDad:quote:Originally posted by Dad04:
I find it interesting you confuse the roles of the coach and player. The player and coach sound well-suited for each other.
You should be glad the kid found 'the right fit'.
The fit is very important. It might not go that well next time tho.
Maybe the coach can issue these so no one feels out of place, and "fit in".
quote:Originally posted by 00'sDAD:
Varsity. He made the team last year also but did not want to cut his hair to play as he felt "The length
of his hair had nothing to do with his baseball ability".
Ok, lets look at this from a little different perspective. Your son apparently decided appearance is irrelevant to his playing ability. While that is true, I think he is missing the bigger picture which is your responsibility to instill in him.
He will face similar choices in life, regarding rules in college, work and even his personal life. I am sure that as a caring father you want to assure him of being successful, happy and a good member of society. Standing up for ones principles is not mutually exclusive to complying with reasonable rules.
If the coach had a rule that didn't make sense, but did not affect him personally, I doubt he would sit out the year on principle. So since this rule affected his appearance, he rebelled against it.
In my opinion you should have stepped in and explained to your 14-16 year old son that having long hair for the girls is not more important than making a small concession of trimming his hair to the longest his coach would find acceptable. You could have used Johnny Damon as a perfect example. When he was with the A's and Red Sox he looked much different than when he went to the Yankees.
He obviously complied with the Yankees rule(which has nothing to do with playing ability), and he is still a productive player to this day. Unlike Samson, his hair had nothing to do with his ability, nor attracting pretty women.
Damon would most likely not have been willing to comply with denouncing his religious beliefs, his country, etc., just to play for the Yankees. Yet he was willing to make a minor personal sacrifice about shaving his beard and trimming his hair. I suspect he was raised to accept a certain level of compliance without compromising his principles, at least the ones that really matter.
The aforementioned is not an attack on you or your son. Rather it is an attempt for you to see this more from a parental point of view, and the responsibility that you and you alone possess. He will be confronted with many challenges in life, and what you instill in him now will help to determine how he handles those challenges, be it well or poorly.
Good luck this year and into the future.
quote:Originally posted by AntzDad:quote:Originally posted by Jimmy03:quote:Originally posted by AntzDad:
I bet Jason Werth could have got a lot more than $128 million from the Nationals if he got a haircut and a shave.
My guess, and it's just a wild guess here, is that the Nationals don't have a rule that Werth would be violating. Just a guess.
I'm also assuming that the Nationals are not a high school team. Again, that's merely an assumption on my part.
Other than these considerations, I'm sure there is a direct comparison.
Maybe, there's a lesson, here. The team that plays at the highest level in the world says, 'if we think you can help our team, it doesn't matter if you look like something the cat dragged in.' I don't know. I'm only guessing.
Maybe it's because it IS the Nationals that they don't care. On the other hand, the team with the most World Series victories has rules related to appearance. Of course, these are adults and not a mullet wearing 16 year old kid.
BTW, I'm having a hard time believing this story anymore. I bet the kid cut his hair last year and played.
Anyone whose hair is more important to him than the team isn't even close to being a team player. The whole thing about him playing this year without getting a haircut is a joke. If the team has no rules about hair length and he wants long hair, (Phillies) then that's fine. I sure wouldn't be bragging on the Baseball Web how my son taught the Coach a lesson by being a brat.
HMMNN. Funny thread.
America.
America's game.
Personal freedoms.
Bureaucratic rule.
Freedom of speech and expression.
Public funding.
Conformity. or not?
Judgements.
Kristallnacht.
America.
America's game.
Personal freedoms.
Bureaucratic rule.
Freedom of speech and expression.
Public funding.
Conformity. or not?
Judgements.
Kristallnacht.
quote:Originally posted by 00'sDAD:
Gone
Honestly, was this a rule that was passed by the coach or was this something that was passed down by your friend (board member) to the coach?
Enjoy these years of HS ball, take lots of pictures, because he'll be done after that.
I still think this guy is full of ****. I dont think he played high school ball last year, and he isnt this year.