[QUOTE]Originally posted by LLorton:
From hs on most players are thinking about the possibility of playing in the Minors or at least making it to the JUCO level. But to keep the information from them of what the pro scouts are looking for in a ball player to my way of thinking is like telling a kid he is working in hs to graduate from college and then not giving the benefit of what he needs to achieve the goal based upon the established minimums.
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LL
i don't totally disagree with your thoughts. but you may have much bigger hs's or much better players. i don't believe most players in hs THINK they can play pro ball. but i woulsd be interested in what that number would be. most LL players have that dream ,but by hs it is probably just that.
i see the more emidiate goal of college being the eye opener.and an attanable goal for most.
Coach May said:
Don't stay away too long! Check in from time to time - 'though it is your busy season. Hope your team stays injury free, and racks up many wins.
quote:Honestly I find it amazing what some people actually believe. Some of the posts on this site are simply amazing to me. I will now go off to the hs season for a few months and back to reality. This place has become fantasy world. Talk to you guys in a few months.
Don't stay away too long! Check in from time to time - 'though it is your busy season. Hope your team stays injury free, and racks up many wins.
1. Coaches at all levels play their players at positions in order to win ball games.
2. Players DO have a say in which position they play.
3. Parents DO influence their sons’ decisions as to where they play.
All those statement are true but once on a team you do have to go with the flow in order to be a team player. Control by either the player or the parent are normally minimal once the player is part of a roster. However their influence can be significant during the instruction, planning, and recruiting process. My son was recruited both as a pitcher and a catcher and his position preference was one of the major factors in selecting a college.
I might add that things don’t always go completly as planned --- I remember a conversation we had on the phone when he was in college. He told me the coach had “asked” him to come out from behind the plate and pitch once the SEC conference games started. I suggested he remind the coach that he was signed as a catcher and during his recruitment was told he wouldn’t be asked to pitch. --- He quickly told me: “That is not an option.” He ptched the rest of the season.
Fungo
2. Players DO have a say in which position they play.
3. Parents DO influence their sons’ decisions as to where they play.
All those statement are true but once on a team you do have to go with the flow in order to be a team player. Control by either the player or the parent are normally minimal once the player is part of a roster. However their influence can be significant during the instruction, planning, and recruiting process. My son was recruited both as a pitcher and a catcher and his position preference was one of the major factors in selecting a college.
I might add that things don’t always go completly as planned --- I remember a conversation we had on the phone when he was in college. He told me the coach had “asked” him to come out from behind the plate and pitch once the SEC conference games started. I suggested he remind the coach that he was signed as a catcher and during his recruitment was told he wouldn’t be asked to pitch. --- He quickly told me: “That is not an option.” He ptched the rest of the season.
Fungo
Son is a junior.
Freshman year he played 3rd, pitched, and played a little 1st (when needed)
Sophomore year he played 2nd and pitched and caught a few innings (when needed)
This year as a junior, he will pitch, play 2nd, s/s, and catch when needed (our "to be" starting catcher is out for the season with a football injury).
The coach plays my son where ever he feels he will help the team the most in any given game.
As a parent I have never questioned this or even thought about it. IMO this will make him a better ball player.
Freshman year he played 3rd, pitched, and played a little 1st (when needed)
Sophomore year he played 2nd and pitched and caught a few innings (when needed)
This year as a junior, he will pitch, play 2nd, s/s, and catch when needed (our "to be" starting catcher is out for the season with a football injury).
The coach plays my son where ever he feels he will help the team the most in any given game.
As a parent I have never questioned this or even thought about it. IMO this will make him a better ball player.
I started this thread just to get some feed back...and the information has been great. Thanks
My kid is there everyday busting his butt, working out with JV and/or Varsity, putting in twice as much time as many kids. He plays where he is told and does not ask why. He is not a selfish player and gives 200% and hustles in all positions. He was taught to be respectful and lead by example.
I may be a selfish dad...I am just concerned for my child, as any parent should be, and am trying to learn what is best for him. Wish we were in a different school environment. The team has not yet won a game in its competitve division .... so changing positions at this point seems like putting a band-aid on a shotgun wound.
So are we successful if we run off one of the top future team players. My boys says he does not care about baseball anymore (cause it is so bad) and wants to quit. He will play where told and do his best as long as he wants or as long as I can make him. We will let him play where the coach tells him to play. We really dont have a choice and we do believe, philosphically, there is no I in TEAM... I hope the boy is good enough to succeed which ever position(s) the coach says is his.
Thanks
My kid is there everyday busting his butt, working out with JV and/or Varsity, putting in twice as much time as many kids. He plays where he is told and does not ask why. He is not a selfish player and gives 200% and hustles in all positions. He was taught to be respectful and lead by example.
I may be a selfish dad...I am just concerned for my child, as any parent should be, and am trying to learn what is best for him. Wish we were in a different school environment. The team has not yet won a game in its competitve division .... so changing positions at this point seems like putting a band-aid on a shotgun wound.
So are we successful if we run off one of the top future team players. My boys says he does not care about baseball anymore (cause it is so bad) and wants to quit. He will play where told and do his best as long as he wants or as long as I can make him. We will let him play where the coach tells him to play. We really dont have a choice and we do believe, philosphically, there is no I in TEAM... I hope the boy is good enough to succeed which ever position(s) the coach says is his.
Thanks
"as long as I can make him "
"we will let him play where the coach tells him to play"
WOW---sign of the times---no wonder good coaches are quitting
"I spent a lot of time and money developing a catcher"
WHO CARES??? Does it help the team
This is becoming all too prevalent !!!
"we will let him play where the coach tells him to play"
WOW---sign of the times---no wonder good coaches are quitting
"I spent a lot of time and money developing a catcher"
WHO CARES??? Does it help the team
This is becoming all too prevalent !!!
4290,
Ummmmmmmmm????????????
I am of the opinion that if you truely love the game, you dont quit because your team looses.
Highschool is a pivetal point.
Its a point which can weed out the players who are not truely passionate for the game. ( There will be plenty more pivetal points down the road,..this is just one. )
In my opinion, you have to love the game inside & out, to your core and back,.... from the top of your head down to your left pinky toe, and all the way in between.
Losing stinks, but if that is all that it takes to make a player quit, then perhaps that says it all.
See dad, when it comes down to it,..its really all very simple.
Its just about playing the game.
There will be sacrafices made, there will be adaptations. There will be blood, sweat, and tears.
There will be joy.
It has to be the player's dream. The player's passion.
*** Too much will be asked of him for it to be anyone elses.***
Funny thing,.... one of the first and one of the hardest lessons I learned was that it is us parents who now have to learn how to step back
and not place " our " expectations on how " we " think things are supposed to be.
We have to let go and watch our boys sink or swim. Time to see what is important to them. Time to see what they are made of. Time to let someone else coach them now.
Many of the Old Timers here on the HSBBW taught me that, reminded me of that, and walked me through it. I'll be honest, it took me a while to really grasp the whole concept when I was a freshman mom.
Who would have thought that us parents have to learn to adapt and overcome, too? I didnt see that coming.
I didnt know that I was going to learn things also, right along side my son.
And the truth is, these ideas are sometimes easier for some of us to grasp than others.
( Even now as a seniormom, four years later, you can usually find moi' parked waaaaaay out behind center field with my mouth duck taped shut, sitting on my hands as to not make crazy motions with my arms in the air.
" Strike?? You call THAT a stinkin' strike????? " )
If a player truely wants to play the game he will, and the life lessons he learns in the meantime,.....
well, consider those a big time- well worth it, bonus.
( for all of us!
)
quote:or as long as I can make him
Ummmmmmmmm????????????
quote:The team has not yet won a game in its competitve division ....
quote:So are we successful if we run off one of the top future team players. My boys says he does not care about baseball anymore (cause it is so bad) and wants to quit.
I am of the opinion that if you truely love the game, you dont quit because your team looses.
Highschool is a pivetal point.
Its a point which can weed out the players who are not truely passionate for the game. ( There will be plenty more pivetal points down the road,..this is just one. )
In my opinion, you have to love the game inside & out, to your core and back,.... from the top of your head down to your left pinky toe, and all the way in between.
Losing stinks, but if that is all that it takes to make a player quit, then perhaps that says it all.
See dad, when it comes down to it,..its really all very simple.
Its just about playing the game.
There will be sacrafices made, there will be adaptations. There will be blood, sweat, and tears.
There will be joy.
It has to be the player's dream. The player's passion.
*** Too much will be asked of him for it to be anyone elses.***
Funny thing,.... one of the first and one of the hardest lessons I learned was that it is us parents who now have to learn how to step back
and not place " our " expectations on how " we " think things are supposed to be.
We have to let go and watch our boys sink or swim. Time to see what is important to them. Time to see what they are made of. Time to let someone else coach them now.
Many of the Old Timers here on the HSBBW taught me that, reminded me of that, and walked me through it. I'll be honest, it took me a while to really grasp the whole concept when I was a freshman mom.
Who would have thought that us parents have to learn to adapt and overcome, too? I didnt see that coming.
I didnt know that I was going to learn things also, right along side my son.
And the truth is, these ideas are sometimes easier for some of us to grasp than others.
( Even now as a seniormom, four years later, you can usually find moi' parked waaaaaay out behind center field with my mouth duck taped shut, sitting on my hands as to not make crazy motions with my arms in the air.
" Strike?? You call THAT a stinkin' strike????? " )If a player truely wants to play the game he will, and the life lessons he learns in the meantime,.....
well, consider those a big time- well worth it, bonus.
( for all of us!
)
Run Off, whats that.
A player, a PLAYER!!
Help's his team get better, get BETTER.
Some people just don't have the Heart for Baseball.
It's a game of a Lot of Disappointment.
Baseball's No Hill for a Stepper though??
EH
A player, a PLAYER!!
Help's his team get better, get BETTER.
Some people just don't have the Heart for Baseball.
It's a game of a Lot of Disappointment.
Baseball's No Hill for a Stepper though??
EH
You forgot to mention your son wasn't happy because he's on a losing team.
All the more reason to step up to help the team.
All the more reason why HS BB played 3-4 months out of the year for many shouldn't be relied on for your players success.
Find your son a good summer/fall travel team to play on so he can begin to learn how to enjoy the game.
Don't let him pitch and catch same team, even at this level, it will take a toll.
And remember, happiness at this level is not always found in the wins and losses. If you and he approach it as a learning experience, things will make sense later on.
You also have to accept the fact that any coach, will use your player where he will help the team to succeed. That's pretty common for every level of baseball.
You might want to try pitching lessons, if he has a strong arm, that may turn out to be his bread and butter.
All the more reason to step up to help the team.
All the more reason why HS BB played 3-4 months out of the year for many shouldn't be relied on for your players success.
Find your son a good summer/fall travel team to play on so he can begin to learn how to enjoy the game.
Don't let him pitch and catch same team, even at this level, it will take a toll.
And remember, happiness at this level is not always found in the wins and losses. If you and he approach it as a learning experience, things will make sense later on.
You also have to accept the fact that any coach, will use your player where he will help the team to succeed. That's pretty common for every level of baseball.
You might want to try pitching lessons, if he has a strong arm, that may turn out to be his bread and butter.
Coach2709 didn't mean to tick your ire...just a difference of opinion, meant no disrespect.
TRhit whenever you disagree it isn't determinate but I understand that some coaches like doing things in a more traditional manner. I came out of that kind of environment...more seat-of-pants where coaching decisions were more an intuitive gut sense of the coaches perspective of what needed to be done.
It's not wrong, but it only can carry a program so far then more scientific and technical methods need to be considered in order to provide the players and coaches with better teaching techniques and technical excellence.
IMO that's where the HSBBWeb has become so important to the hs bb environment.
JMO
It's not wrong, but it only can carry a program so far then more scientific and technical methods need to be considered in order to provide the players and coaches with better teaching techniques and technical excellence.
IMO that's where the HSBBWeb has become so important to the hs bb environment.
JMO
shortstopmom in an esoteric sense you are correct when you say the object of the exercise is just play the game. But in all cases the object when playing any game is to win, not lose.
Losing makes a loser out of a team...the team lost and therefore they are the losers of the contest...not necessarily losers in life. But to much losing is like any other habit that has negative connotation and consequences it is destructive to self-worth, self-confidence and finally a players self-respect.
Why, because bb is about respect, showing up players, coaches and umpires is considered out-of-bounds and poor behavior. But showing up your competition by making a great play and getting the GWH is considered AWESOME as long as you run the bases calmly without fanfare...but none-the-less every player knows what it means.
Losing is nothing more than feedback to everyone that you are not working smart enough, or not working hard enough...which means your competition is outsmarting you and outhustling you. For players who care it means getting up at 5AM to go run, be in the batting cage by 5:30AM and have completed two to three hours of practice before his first class at 8AM.
JMO
Losing makes a loser out of a team...the team lost and therefore they are the losers of the contest...not necessarily losers in life. But to much losing is like any other habit that has negative connotation and consequences it is destructive to self-worth, self-confidence and finally a players self-respect.
Why, because bb is about respect, showing up players, coaches and umpires is considered out-of-bounds and poor behavior. But showing up your competition by making a great play and getting the GWH is considered AWESOME as long as you run the bases calmly without fanfare...but none-the-less every player knows what it means.
Losing is nothing more than feedback to everyone that you are not working smart enough, or not working hard enough...which means your competition is outsmarting you and outhustling you. For players who care it means getting up at 5AM to go run, be in the batting cage by 5:30AM and have completed two to three hours of practice before his first class at 8AM.
JMO
LLNorton
Thanx for the lecture---it is duly noted
Thanx for the lecture---it is duly noted
4290 it is sad to hear that your son is feeling bumbed out with losing...it is understandable. No one likes losing. But I would offer to you that your support of your son is even more critical now if he is to have any chance to play beyond hs.
Players go through slumps...some in batting, some in fielding, and others in pitching. My son, though a fine pitcher didn't win a game in his senior year in hs; and though many variables can be cited for that outcome, its impact on him none-the-less was not a positive experience. He could have given up and quit but he didn't, and now he is a starting pitcher ith his college team.
Help him get through this slump, buy him a new bat or glove give it to him broken in with a pocket, ready to go, he will want to try it out in the games.
A lot of coaches don't realize the more they move players around the more unsettled most players feel about their place. Every position on that field has very specific nuances of skills that take time to develope. The best thing your coach could do for your hs team is settle on one lineup, best nine players, and help each player understand the differences between what is required at each position as far as techniques, foot work, hands, body position and the like, etc, and what is required in order to execute the correct methods to reach a good understanding of what they are doing...and hopefully excellence before the season is over.
JMO
Players go through slumps...some in batting, some in fielding, and others in pitching. My son, though a fine pitcher didn't win a game in his senior year in hs; and though many variables can be cited for that outcome, its impact on him none-the-less was not a positive experience. He could have given up and quit but he didn't, and now he is a starting pitcher ith his college team.
Help him get through this slump, buy him a new bat or glove give it to him broken in with a pocket, ready to go, he will want to try it out in the games.
A lot of coaches don't realize the more they move players around the more unsettled most players feel about their place. Every position on that field has very specific nuances of skills that take time to develope. The best thing your coach could do for your hs team is settle on one lineup, best nine players, and help each player understand the differences between what is required at each position as far as techniques, foot work, hands, body position and the like, etc, and what is required in order to execute the correct methods to reach a good understanding of what they are doing...and hopefully excellence before the season is over.
JMO
When will players and parents learn as the player goes up the ladder they play where they can and where the coach wants them, not where they want? Any position on the field is better than one on the bench or JV team.
LL,
If parents had to buy their players a new bat or glove when they went through a slump, they may be spending a whole bunch of money. The pitcher who has lost control, the batter that can't hit, needs to find out what adjustments need to be made not new equipment.
Baseball is about failure, if you can't take the heat, and quit, then you weren't much of a player to begin with, JMO, sorry if that offends anyone.
I posted this once, son's college coach said it takes about 20-22 games until HE can figure out what is going to work and what is not. In a 28 game HS season, you don't have that time, but I would assume that some coaches that haven't found success for their team should do whatever they can to find a way, if that means moving players, that's a better sign to me than just playing the same players every game because that's where the player wants to be. JMO.
If parents had to buy their players a new bat or glove when they went through a slump, they may be spending a whole bunch of money. The pitcher who has lost control, the batter that can't hit, needs to find out what adjustments need to be made not new equipment.
Baseball is about failure, if you can't take the heat, and quit, then you weren't much of a player to begin with, JMO, sorry if that offends anyone.
I posted this once, son's college coach said it takes about 20-22 games until HE can figure out what is going to work and what is not. In a 28 game HS season, you don't have that time, but I would assume that some coaches that haven't found success for their team should do whatever they can to find a way, if that means moving players, that's a better sign to me than just playing the same players every game because that's where the player wants to be. JMO.
LL - Thanks
I am being supportive and will stay behind him, and the coach. Good last paragraph.
I am being supportive and will stay behind him, and the coach. Good last paragraph.
RJM I understand the authority function of a coaches perogatives.
I just don't agree with the idea that moving players around after they have spent years learning ho to play a position on the bb field is the best utilization of their skill set.
The corners on the infield require a totally different foot work component then the middle-infielders.
LF is played completely differently then right field and requires a different level of arm in comparison to RF. RF requires a gun for an arm and the foot work is different then LF.
Pitching takes a long time to master, as does catching...and both these positions are not interchangeable...and any coach that says so doesn't know what he is talking about.
Pitching is a mastery of balance throughout a very high velocity throwing motion with a release point that cannot be off by more than a few centimeters, eg.
Little League is great for the coach who likes moving his players around...let them all play and it doesn't matter where they play mentality...but by the time they reach hs their position skills should already be formed, maybe not perfected because of course they are still learning.
You show me a coach that moves his players around a lot and I bet he loses more than he wins.
I just don't agree with the idea that moving players around after they have spent years learning ho to play a position on the bb field is the best utilization of their skill set.
The corners on the infield require a totally different foot work component then the middle-infielders.
LF is played completely differently then right field and requires a different level of arm in comparison to RF. RF requires a gun for an arm and the foot work is different then LF.
Pitching takes a long time to master, as does catching...and both these positions are not interchangeable...and any coach that says so doesn't know what he is talking about.
Pitching is a mastery of balance throughout a very high velocity throwing motion with a release point that cannot be off by more than a few centimeters, eg.
Little League is great for the coach who likes moving his players around...let them all play and it doesn't matter where they play mentality...but by the time they reach hs their position skills should already be formed, maybe not perfected because of course they are still learning.
You show me a coach that moves his players around a lot and I bet he loses more than he wins.
LL
Who says that what a player learned position wise in all those expensive instruction years prior to HS ball is in fact correct?---DADDY !!!!---Who dream is the boy living?
Who says that what a player learned position wise in all those expensive instruction years prior to HS ball is in fact correct?---DADDY !!!!---Who dream is the boy living?
TRhit in other words DADDY's are not supposed to help their son's develope any bb skills through arranging for them for private lessons with ex-pro MLB coaches or players?
Lessons are all assumed to be incorrect in your eyes? Why? because DADDY might be accused of trying to live vicariously through his son?
Are you trying to put yourself out of business? TRhit you can be so wrong sometimes.
Some dream...my son is away at college playing ball and if he remembers to call us once a week it's because he probably ran out of money.
JMO
Lessons are all assumed to be incorrect in your eyes? Why? because DADDY might be accused of trying to live vicariously through his son?
Are you trying to put yourself out of business? TRhit you can be so wrong sometimes.
Some dream...my son is away at college playing ball and if he remembers to call us once a week it's because he probably ran out of money.
JMO
LL,
If parents have the resources to help to develop their players no one is saying you shouldn't.
Just don't expect that because you have spent those $$ that's where your son's strength may lie and his position for life. A good HS coach, scout or college coach may see things alot different as the player gets older. It may or may not be worthless to spend lots of bucks on a specific position when a player is young. Things change, players change, needs change. In college baseball the catcher that usually gets the start is a catcher that needs to hit to be in the lineup, or if not, he has to have incredible management and leadership skills to handle his pitching staff. That sometimes may take precedence over his skill or lack of. Most HS catchers, IMO, end up as BP catchers. Lessons or no lessons.
Catchers are very often converted to pitchers due to their accurate arm and arm strength. A catcher doing BP duty day in and day out and offered another chance to be in the lineup everyday or make a bigger impact at any position, I would imagine would jump at the chance.
If parents have the resources to help to develop their players no one is saying you shouldn't.
Just don't expect that because you have spent those $$ that's where your son's strength may lie and his position for life. A good HS coach, scout or college coach may see things alot different as the player gets older. It may or may not be worthless to spend lots of bucks on a specific position when a player is young. Things change, players change, needs change. In college baseball the catcher that usually gets the start is a catcher that needs to hit to be in the lineup, or if not, he has to have incredible management and leadership skills to handle his pitching staff. That sometimes may take precedence over his skill or lack of. Most HS catchers, IMO, end up as BP catchers. Lessons or no lessons.
Catchers are very often converted to pitchers due to their accurate arm and arm strength. A catcher doing BP duty day in and day out and offered another chance to be in the lineup everyday or make a bigger impact at any position, I would imagine would jump at the chance.
LLnorton
I did not say dont have daddy work with the boy--what I am saying is that you do not drive the boy to one position because YOU AS DADDY think it is best---you as a daddy cannot create a player---my sons played multiple positions as they evolved and NO they did not take lessons and I am not saying that is right or wrong-I did not feel they needed them dur to the strength of the baseball knowledge of the people involved in our youth leagues and the clinics we ran
Am I trying to put my self out of business??? Look at this way-- I am who I am, for whatever that is worth, because of my beliefs---I do not think you know anything about who I am and what I do---all you do is read words here on this site
By the way I am retired and what I do with baseball is to keep my sanity as a retired person---I do not like golf---I love the sport and can give back to the kids then I will--plus I enjoy the company of the great majority of the baseball people that I know and have met
LL
Do not judge me please because you will be the fool even more than you have shown in this thread.
I did not say dont have daddy work with the boy--what I am saying is that you do not drive the boy to one position because YOU AS DADDY think it is best---you as a daddy cannot create a player---my sons played multiple positions as they evolved and NO they did not take lessons and I am not saying that is right or wrong-I did not feel they needed them dur to the strength of the baseball knowledge of the people involved in our youth leagues and the clinics we ran
Am I trying to put my self out of business??? Look at this way-- I am who I am, for whatever that is worth, because of my beliefs---I do not think you know anything about who I am and what I do---all you do is read words here on this site
By the way I am retired and what I do with baseball is to keep my sanity as a retired person---I do not like golf---I love the sport and can give back to the kids then I will--plus I enjoy the company of the great majority of the baseball people that I know and have met
LL
Do not judge me please because you will be the fool even more than you have shown in this thread.
There's this term for the kids playing high school baseball and other high school sports. The term is "athlete." It comes from being athletic. An athletic kid can make an adjustment to playing almost any position. It may not be his best position, but it's the best situation for the team.quote:I just don't agree with the idea that moving players around after they have spent years learning ho to play a position on the bb field is the best utilization of their skill set.
My son thinks he's better than the starting shortstop. Others have told me the same. But my son is smart enough to know he's not beating out a returning senior starter unless the kid falls on his face. So my son is going out for third even though it's never been a regular position for him He played a few games there in 13U and then in middle school last year when the varsity coach wanted to see him at third. Are the skills different for third than short? Of course. But to him playing third (assuming he wins the position) on varsity beats playing short on JV. He also told the coach he's willing to play rightfield since that's another open position.
I'm proud to say my son got it at an early age. We were at LL regions when the shortstop from our state (and section) made two great plays. My son told me to get him for the 12U travel team we were starting. I told my son if I get the kid he's playing short and not him. My son told me if I could find eight better players he would play left and bat ninth.
TPM if the young player is a catcher and arrives at college level and doesn't have the skill set, batting prowess that is associated with the requirements of what a catcher's job is both on offense and on defense then he probably received very poor advice and training about what a catcher must have to be a top college prospect.
That doesn't surprise me because even here there is such a variance of what is considered to be the right way to bring players along from level to level.
For me the baseline is the pro scouting ranking system. It has to be otherwise you end up with exactly your description of catchers becoming pitchers. For me that is a no no. Why, because catchers use short throwing motions that put a lot of stress on the shoulder and elbow. Pitchers use a long arm throwing motion and it is meant to provide less stress to the arm and it helps with the rhythm component of the rocking movement. I wouldn't convert a catcher into a pitcher and vice-versa. To much chance of ruining the catchers arm.
So there you have it, I learned one way...and apparently like NYC there are 8 millions stories and 8 million ways. But in the end they all have to meet the pro scouting standards...so why not start there.
JMO
That doesn't surprise me because even here there is such a variance of what is considered to be the right way to bring players along from level to level.
For me the baseline is the pro scouting ranking system. It has to be otherwise you end up with exactly your description of catchers becoming pitchers. For me that is a no no. Why, because catchers use short throwing motions that put a lot of stress on the shoulder and elbow. Pitchers use a long arm throwing motion and it is meant to provide less stress to the arm and it helps with the rhythm component of the rocking movement. I wouldn't convert a catcher into a pitcher and vice-versa. To much chance of ruining the catchers arm.
So there you have it, I learned one way...and apparently like NYC there are 8 millions stories and 8 million ways. But in the end they all have to meet the pro scouting standards...so why not start there.
JMO
LL
I can only hope your son has the talent to overcome what your thinking is doing to him
I can only hope your son has the talent to overcome what your thinking is doing to him
TRHit was not making any value judgments of your personal attributes or your bb philosophy simply responding to the underlying meaning of your statements.
Galileo was considered a fool until the world found out the earth wasn't flat. LOL
I'd like think my son is still playing when all his fellow LLers are no longer in the game...maybe it was those lessons.
JMO
Galileo was considered a fool until the world found out the earth wasn't flat. LOL
I'd like think my son is still playing when all his fellow LLers are no longer in the game...maybe it was those lessons.
JMO
My son has been a catcher for three years, because a coach needed someone to catch on his travel team. He was moved up to varsity, and became the starter, as a freshman. He is a good solid catcher, but not great. Several coaches have told him that if he plays at a higher level, it will be at third or in the outfield. On his showcase team he plays center field, and catches every once in a while. On his high school team he is stictly a catcher. The year before my son started high school they had a sophmore behind the plate who was a natural outfielder, last year they moved the kid to the outfield and he signed with a D-1.That kid did what the team needed to have the best team on the field. Most of the kids I know are more interested in winning than what position they play, and will play where the coach thinks will be best for the team.
bcb3 it's great to hear that your son is doing so well. I wish for him a great season.
JMO
JMO
LL,
Yes. I agree.
Sometimes, there is no choice. A player is stuck on a team that loses. They lose year, after year, after year.
Is it better to play on a losing team, than to not play at all?
You better believe it!
Its only those things if you allow it to be.
Sometimes losing can bring out unbelieveable determination and a true test of passion, desire, and work ethic inorder to just keep playing the game.
Its easy win. Its hard to lose.
And for those players who go back out to the field over and over again bustin' their rumps, ( rising at 5am to hit in the cages, etc. before class at 8:00 am ) inspite of an unsuccessful winning record, I commend them and admire them.
They have back bone, and I have to tell ya, its much bigger than mine.
quote:But in all cases the object when playing any game is to win, not lose.
Yes. I agree.
quote:But too much losing is like any other habit that has negative connotation and consequences, it is destructive to self-worth, self-confidence and finally a players self-respect.
Sometimes, there is no choice. A player is stuck on a team that loses. They lose year, after year, after year.
Is it better to play on a losing team, than to not play at all?
You better believe it!
quote:it is destructive to self-worth, self-confidence and finally a players self-respect.
Its only those things if you allow it to be.
Sometimes losing can bring out unbelieveable determination and a true test of passion, desire, and work ethic inorder to just keep playing the game.
Its easy win. Its hard to lose.
And for those players who go back out to the field over and over again bustin' their rumps, ( rising at 5am to hit in the cages, etc. before class at 8:00 am ) inspite of an unsuccessful winning record, I commend them and admire them.
They have back bone, and I have to tell ya, its much bigger than mine.
What happens when all your players show up for tryouts and they all have trained to be SS and pitchers? Who plays the other posistions?
What happens when the parents and players dictate who plays where? What happens to the team?
What ever happened to being a baseball player?
Versatile players get on the field quicker and have way more options. If your a catcher and you come into a hs program and the starting catcher is a JR stud what do you do? What if you can also play the outfield? Do you play JV for two years when you could start in the outfield for the varsity? Do you help your team win or do you do what you feel is best for you? Is it best for you to train under an upperclassman at your primary posistion for the future but also play everyday in the outfield to help your team win?
Who makes these types of decisions? The player or parent? Or does the coach make these types of decisions? Do you actually believe that the posistion a kid plays four months out of the year and in 30 or so games will be the determining factor of his baseball development? What is he doing the other 8 months out of the year?
Parents that can not let go for four months and allow their child to be a part of a team - are they helping their son?
Our best 3b plays 1b and pitches. Why? Because our 2nd best 3b can not play first base and he does not pitch. It didnt stop the kid that plays 1st base from getting a scholley to NC State to play 3B. Why? Because they saw him play 3b in the summer with his showcase team. And they saw him swing it in the line up last year during our hs season.
Quite frankly parents that can not let go and allow their kid to find his own path during the hs years only hinder their development. And they end up making it a miserable experience for their kid. The coaches job is to put the 9 guys on the field at the posistions that give his boys the best chance to win. The players job is to do what it takes to help his team win.
If your not playing the posistion you feel is best suited for your ability then play it in the summer and fall. Heck start a team of your own and that way you can ensure that he does.
What happens when the parents and players dictate who plays where? What happens to the team?
What ever happened to being a baseball player?
Versatile players get on the field quicker and have way more options. If your a catcher and you come into a hs program and the starting catcher is a JR stud what do you do? What if you can also play the outfield? Do you play JV for two years when you could start in the outfield for the varsity? Do you help your team win or do you do what you feel is best for you? Is it best for you to train under an upperclassman at your primary posistion for the future but also play everyday in the outfield to help your team win?
Who makes these types of decisions? The player or parent? Or does the coach make these types of decisions? Do you actually believe that the posistion a kid plays four months out of the year and in 30 or so games will be the determining factor of his baseball development? What is he doing the other 8 months out of the year?
Parents that can not let go for four months and allow their child to be a part of a team - are they helping their son?
Our best 3b plays 1b and pitches. Why? Because our 2nd best 3b can not play first base and he does not pitch. It didnt stop the kid that plays 1st base from getting a scholley to NC State to play 3B. Why? Because they saw him play 3b in the summer with his showcase team. And they saw him swing it in the line up last year during our hs season.
Quite frankly parents that can not let go and allow their kid to find his own path during the hs years only hinder their development. And they end up making it a miserable experience for their kid. The coaches job is to put the 9 guys on the field at the posistions that give his boys the best chance to win. The players job is to do what it takes to help his team win.
If your not playing the posistion you feel is best suited for your ability then play it in the summer and fall. Heck start a team of your own and that way you can ensure that he does.
Shortstopmom,
Right on you go girl.You play with passion, you play where the coach puts you, you play as a team,you always be prepared to give your team the best shot at winning, but always if you are a true player YOU JUST PLAY.None of these boys want to lose, but sometimes by circumstance you might not have enough talent to win. That is not the HS coaches fault give me a break. Your kids played for 8-9 years before they got to high school.
and if you are constantly critical of the coaches and your sons teammates in front of your sons please think again. I cant stand sitting in the stands listening to parents bash the coaches and certain players that they think are not as good as their kids. It does nobody anygood, ruins the game for me personally, causes dissention among parents which can trickle down to the players.
If your kid plays hard, trains hard and is passionate and has some skill just be happy that he is in the line up.and if he is not then work harder and make sure it doesnt happen again
Right on you go girl.You play with passion, you play where the coach puts you, you play as a team,you always be prepared to give your team the best shot at winning, but always if you are a true player YOU JUST PLAY.None of these boys want to lose, but sometimes by circumstance you might not have enough talent to win. That is not the HS coaches fault give me a break. Your kids played for 8-9 years before they got to high school.
and if you are constantly critical of the coaches and your sons teammates in front of your sons please think again. I cant stand sitting in the stands listening to parents bash the coaches and certain players that they think are not as good as their kids. It does nobody anygood, ruins the game for me personally, causes dissention among parents which can trickle down to the players.
If your kid plays hard, trains hard and is passionate and has some skill just be happy that he is in the line up.and if he is not then work harder and make sure it doesnt happen again
Now that is the kind of parent a coach loves to have in his corner. You can bet a parent with that attitude also has a kid with a great attitude as well.
LL,
Just one more question.
I know a college coach who has converted different position players to pitchers, are you saying that was wrong?
Just one more question.
I know a college coach who has converted different position players to pitchers, are you saying that was wrong?
i have always felt kids need to play everywhere. when you get to high school and some stud plays where you usually do,now what? learn to play as many positions as you can.
One of the best things I did for my son was, on the 13U team he played whatever position the pitcher came from except when he was the pitcher. He played 2b, ss, 3b, cf and c.quote:Originally posted by 20dad:
i have always felt kids need to play everywhere. when you get to high school and some stud plays where you usually do,now what? learn to play as many positions as you can.
quote:Originally posted by RJM:One of the best things I did for my son was, on the 13U team he played whatever position the pitcher came from except when he was the pitcher. He played 2b, ss, 3b, cf and c.quote:Originally posted by 20dad:
i have always felt kids need to play everywhere. when you get to high school and some stud plays where you usually do,now what? learn to play as many positions as you can.
Many players do that, because their natural talent allows them the ability to do so. And so does their natural understading of the game. It also gives them another perspective and appreciation for the game at each position.
It is very common that college coaches take players and re position them. A 2year SS I know is now playing 3B. A hard hitting friend of my son played 1st b when he signed D1. He pitched all 3 years and nver picked up a bat at a D1.
Joey Votto was drafted as a catcher. He had played 3rd all his career until he was converted by a pro scout to catch. Nice 600K bonus at a position he never played before. He is expected to make the 40 man roster this year. I can tell you many stories of converted players.
Joey Votto was drafted as a catcher. He had played 3rd all his career until he was converted by a pro scout to catch. Nice 600K bonus at a position he never played before. He is expected to make the 40 man roster this year. I can tell you many stories of converted players.
Coach May - I like your post. I was thinking of saying something similar. At the risk of redundancy:
I don't know how realistic some of these scenarios are that we debate, but we have been discussing the extreme scenario of one "7/7" (very talented) player and the rest not so good on a team. Should the 7/7 player play his best position or the position at which the team needs him most? Looking at the other (unrealistic) extreme may shed some light. What if I had nine 7/7 players that were catchers? Would I stack them all up at only their best position on the depth chart and play only one of them? No. I don't think I have had the privilege to coach even one 7/7 player, but if I had nine, they would be on the field somewhere (and we would likely be winning or pushing for a state championship in our smallest school class in our state).
I think it is most important to assign and discuss a well-defined role to the players on the team as to how I see them helping this team to win this year and also discuss the need for flexibility as team circumstances change. The best player I have had the privilege to help coach was the type that usually is a P/SS/3 or 4 hitter in our rural communities. He assumed several different roles involving different defensive positions (usually one-per-season) over the last few years on our Legion team. He is a coach's dream, even strapping on the catcher's gear (it was his idea) in a playoff game when our starting catcher was injured and did a great job (we knocked off our biggest rival). We have had some success as a team and he is at a D1 school on a scholarship as a pitcher, so it didn't seem to hurt him to play the different positions.
I mentioned my son earlier as an example. In his sophomore season, he played on four teams with four different coaches and he had four different roles. On HS JV, he was 1b/cleanup hitter. On HS Varsity, he was RF/7 hitter. On Senior Legion, he was 2B/8 hitter. In Senior LL, he was CF/Leadoff. In three of the four, he played some 1B and P, but his primary roles were as mentioned. He learned a lot from this experience and it hasn't hurt him as far as I can tell.
I don't see a big downside to using players where they fit best for the team to make the team successful. Also, as a coach, I like to accomodate the player's wishes if it makes sense, all things being equal.
I don't know how realistic some of these scenarios are that we debate, but we have been discussing the extreme scenario of one "7/7" (very talented) player and the rest not so good on a team. Should the 7/7 player play his best position or the position at which the team needs him most? Looking at the other (unrealistic) extreme may shed some light. What if I had nine 7/7 players that were catchers? Would I stack them all up at only their best position on the depth chart and play only one of them? No. I don't think I have had the privilege to coach even one 7/7 player, but if I had nine, they would be on the field somewhere (and we would likely be winning or pushing for a state championship in our smallest school class in our state).
I think it is most important to assign and discuss a well-defined role to the players on the team as to how I see them helping this team to win this year and also discuss the need for flexibility as team circumstances change. The best player I have had the privilege to help coach was the type that usually is a P/SS/3 or 4 hitter in our rural communities. He assumed several different roles involving different defensive positions (usually one-per-season) over the last few years on our Legion team. He is a coach's dream, even strapping on the catcher's gear (it was his idea) in a playoff game when our starting catcher was injured and did a great job (we knocked off our biggest rival). We have had some success as a team and he is at a D1 school on a scholarship as a pitcher, so it didn't seem to hurt him to play the different positions.
I mentioned my son earlier as an example. In his sophomore season, he played on four teams with four different coaches and he had four different roles. On HS JV, he was 1b/cleanup hitter. On HS Varsity, he was RF/7 hitter. On Senior Legion, he was 2B/8 hitter. In Senior LL, he was CF/Leadoff. In three of the four, he played some 1B and P, but his primary roles were as mentioned. He learned a lot from this experience and it hasn't hurt him as far as I can tell.
I don't see a big downside to using players where they fit best for the team to make the team successful. Also, as a coach, I like to accomodate the player's wishes if it makes sense, all things being equal.
I will end my posts on this subject with this example. You can look him up on the Tampa Rays website if you would like to.
Chris Luck RHP drafted last year by the Tampa Rays.
Freshman year. Chris played varsity for us. He played SS and pitched. The games after he pitched he played 1B to limit the strain on his arm.
Soph year. Chris moved to CF where we needed to replace a stud that had graduated the year before. We had a kid that could do a good job at SS but needed a guy in CF that could cover ground. He pitched some and played 1B again to limit strain on his arm.
Jr year. Chris played 1B 3B Pitched and again played 1B on days after he had pitched.
Sr year. Chris played SS and pitched and 1B after pitching.
In other words he played where the team needed him the most. He wanted to win. He wanted to play where he helped the team the most. During his career he played 3B , SS , OF , 1B and pitched.
He was drafted last year as a RHP. He had an outstanding first year in pro ball and will report again soon. He never cared one bit about where he was playing. He pitched every 3rd or 4th game. He never threw a pitch on less than four days rest in his entire hs career. He logged 48 innings his sr year the most of his hs career in one season.
Did playing multiple posistions and playing where the team needed him hurt his ability to be drafted? Did it hurt his development as a player? Give me a freaking break!
Pratt Maynard an 08 for us has signed with NC State and is a stud RHP 3B 1B lh hitting stud. He asked this year if we wanted him to play some outfield after seeing we were very young at this posistion. Why? He wants to win. These are the types of players that move on. The ones that are driven to win. That ones that are team players. The ones that want to do whatever they can do to help their team win.
I could give so many other examples over the years just like these. If a player came into our program and told us where he should play. And the parent told us where he was going to play my response would be "Take him to the school that will allow you to play for yourself." I could careless how talented he was or was going to be. There are things more important than talent or projection of talent. The first is the desire to be a part of a team.
Chris Luck RHP drafted last year by the Tampa Rays.
Freshman year. Chris played varsity for us. He played SS and pitched. The games after he pitched he played 1B to limit the strain on his arm.
Soph year. Chris moved to CF where we needed to replace a stud that had graduated the year before. We had a kid that could do a good job at SS but needed a guy in CF that could cover ground. He pitched some and played 1B again to limit strain on his arm.
Jr year. Chris played 1B 3B Pitched and again played 1B on days after he had pitched.
Sr year. Chris played SS and pitched and 1B after pitching.
In other words he played where the team needed him the most. He wanted to win. He wanted to play where he helped the team the most. During his career he played 3B , SS , OF , 1B and pitched.
He was drafted last year as a RHP. He had an outstanding first year in pro ball and will report again soon. He never cared one bit about where he was playing. He pitched every 3rd or 4th game. He never threw a pitch on less than four days rest in his entire hs career. He logged 48 innings his sr year the most of his hs career in one season.
Did playing multiple posistions and playing where the team needed him hurt his ability to be drafted? Did it hurt his development as a player? Give me a freaking break!
Pratt Maynard an 08 for us has signed with NC State and is a stud RHP 3B 1B lh hitting stud. He asked this year if we wanted him to play some outfield after seeing we were very young at this posistion. Why? He wants to win. These are the types of players that move on. The ones that are driven to win. That ones that are team players. The ones that want to do whatever they can do to help their team win.
I could give so many other examples over the years just like these. If a player came into our program and told us where he should play. And the parent told us where he was going to play my response would be "Take him to the school that will allow you to play for yourself." I could careless how talented he was or was going to be. There are things more important than talent or projection of talent. The first is the desire to be a part of a team.
Wouldn't convert a catcher into a pitcher? There are quite a few ex-catchers making a nice living as pitchers in MLB. Troy Percival comes to mind. Arms are arms and if a player turns out to have an arm that is much better than his bat he's going to be converted into a pitcher eventually.
As far as the original post, don't sweat it. It sounds like he has a strong arm and if he keeps building his skills as a catcher they'll use him there eventually.
As far as the original post, don't sweat it. It sounds like he has a strong arm and if he keeps building his skills as a catcher they'll use him there eventually.