I believe MLB coaching is more in line with a solid lineup, very few conversions, and it is a major big deal to move one player from one position to another. Must be a reason why?
Coaches using the major league model IMO are preparing their players for the meeting the Pro Scout Rating System, and helping those players who are the great athletes to compete with very fine tuned skills...not slock part-time level performances at three different positions.
JMO
LL,
Ok I give up how many players have you had drafted, if any, and how many of them played one position.
Ok I give up how many players have you had drafted, if any, and how many of them played one position.
Craig Biggio - C, 2B, OF - he was an allstar
Robin Yount - SS, OF - hall of famer
Pete Rose - 3B, 1B - hall of famer
Cal Ripken - SS, 3B - hall of famer
Alex Rodriguez - SS, 3B - future hall of famer
Victor Martinez - C, 1B - allstar
Jose Oquendo - definition of utility player - lasted 10 years in MLB and played every position on the field at one point. He pitched 4 innings in relief against the Braves and shut them out for 3 and gave up 2 runs
TPM - your son played at Clemson University. As almost everyone knows they are a powerhouse in the NCAA. Could you please list the players who played multiple positions during the season?
Coach May - could you tell us how many players at North Carolina play or have played multiple positions?
Logan Johnson who played at the University of Louisville in the 2007 CWS was a 2B. My HS team played against his HS team and he was a SS there. When he signed with U of L it was on the understanding he was going to play 2B.
LL - should Logan's HS coach switched him then to play 2B since that is where he was going to play? Should Logan's dad demanded he play 2B after signing?
Logan was a great and I mean great HS shortstop. He played there because he was the best choice for that position to help his team win.
I had a OF / P who was a pitcher in college. He wasn't a great HS pitcher but that was because he couldn't concentrate on it exclusively. We had to have in the OF and he loved playing it. He knew he was going to pitch in college as a submarine pitcher. He set many of his JUCO's pitching records but he was adequate for us because we had to have him throwing over the top because he played OF. He didn't care because he loved playing the game.
So there you have different levels of baseball - high school, college and professional - and there are examples of guys playing different positions for many different reasons.
So are you going to say they made the wrong choice?
Robin Yount - SS, OF - hall of famer
Pete Rose - 3B, 1B - hall of famer
Cal Ripken - SS, 3B - hall of famer
Alex Rodriguez - SS, 3B - future hall of famer
Victor Martinez - C, 1B - allstar
Jose Oquendo - definition of utility player - lasted 10 years in MLB and played every position on the field at one point. He pitched 4 innings in relief against the Braves and shut them out for 3 and gave up 2 runs
TPM - your son played at Clemson University. As almost everyone knows they are a powerhouse in the NCAA. Could you please list the players who played multiple positions during the season?
Coach May - could you tell us how many players at North Carolina play or have played multiple positions?
Logan Johnson who played at the University of Louisville in the 2007 CWS was a 2B. My HS team played against his HS team and he was a SS there. When he signed with U of L it was on the understanding he was going to play 2B.
LL - should Logan's HS coach switched him then to play 2B since that is where he was going to play? Should Logan's dad demanded he play 2B after signing?
Logan was a great and I mean great HS shortstop. He played there because he was the best choice for that position to help his team win.
I had a OF / P who was a pitcher in college. He wasn't a great HS pitcher but that was because he couldn't concentrate on it exclusively. We had to have in the OF and he loved playing it. He knew he was going to pitch in college as a submarine pitcher. He set many of his JUCO's pitching records but he was adequate for us because we had to have him throwing over the top because he played OF. He didn't care because he loved playing the game.
So there you have different levels of baseball - high school, college and professional - and there are examples of guys playing different positions for many different reasons.
So are you going to say they made the wrong choice?
A friend's son played every inning of every game for four years in high school behind the plate. Growing up, the only time he didn't catch was when he pitched in LL and BR. He's at an SEC school now. He played first today. It beats second string catcher or DH. When he got to college he had to learn how to field grounders properly. Imagine never seeing grounder all your life until you step on the field in an SEC game. He learned and adapted because he's a top level athlete.
2709,
All I know about Clemson is that they recruit on ability and athleticism. Your bat and arm are more important than the position. Many players have come and not played the position they played in HS. Example, Stan Widman and Taylor Harbin both played ss in HS, they both arrived at the same time and recruited for their bat. Who needs two ss? Who doesn't need great hitters?
Tyler Colvin, I do beleive was originlly an infielder (first), converted to outfield and 13th pick in the 2006 draft for his bat.
Colin Mahoney recruited as catcher, drafted 4th round after only pitching 28 innings total for his arm.
Brad chalk pitcher in HS, played CF, drafted 3rd round for his speed and arm.
Tony Sipp,outfielder (?) converted to pitcher drafted in 2004 for his arm. I do beleive he is a top prospect in his organization.
Kris Harvey (son of Bryan), pitcher, DH, drafted 2nd round his bat. He never played a position other than pitcher, well, maybe once or twice at 1B.
Currently, DJ Mitchell played OF for 2 years, now a weekend pitching starter expected to go high in the draft for his arm.
I don't know LL but I am not sure if he realizes that bat,speed and the arm rules, not fancy footwork. I'd like him to show me one college program where there are no converted players on a team. I'd like him to show me where a MLB player never played any other position but one.
What about Arod? What about Cabrerra? Ankiel?
BTW, my son was listed in All County Team his senior year, as utility.
It's a major big deal in MLB why players aren't converted because they have spent years at one position. But ask them if they will make a change for more money, I am sure they are more than willing. Ask any milb player if they would rather try another position or get cut and see what they will do. Ask any player that question. I have seen too many players transfer because they didn't want to play where the coach wanted them and you never heard about them again.
All I know about Clemson is that they recruit on ability and athleticism. Your bat and arm are more important than the position. Many players have come and not played the position they played in HS. Example, Stan Widman and Taylor Harbin both played ss in HS, they both arrived at the same time and recruited for their bat. Who needs two ss? Who doesn't need great hitters?
Tyler Colvin, I do beleive was originlly an infielder (first), converted to outfield and 13th pick in the 2006 draft for his bat.
Colin Mahoney recruited as catcher, drafted 4th round after only pitching 28 innings total for his arm.
Brad chalk pitcher in HS, played CF, drafted 3rd round for his speed and arm.
Tony Sipp,outfielder (?) converted to pitcher drafted in 2004 for his arm. I do beleive he is a top prospect in his organization.
Kris Harvey (son of Bryan), pitcher, DH, drafted 2nd round his bat. He never played a position other than pitcher, well, maybe once or twice at 1B.
Currently, DJ Mitchell played OF for 2 years, now a weekend pitching starter expected to go high in the draft for his arm.
I don't know LL but I am not sure if he realizes that bat,speed and the arm rules, not fancy footwork. I'd like him to show me one college program where there are no converted players on a team. I'd like him to show me where a MLB player never played any other position but one.
What about Arod? What about Cabrerra? Ankiel?
BTW, my son was listed in All County Team his senior year, as utility.
It's a major big deal in MLB why players aren't converted because they have spent years at one position. But ask them if they will make a change for more money, I am sure they are more than willing. Ask any milb player if they would rather try another position or get cut and see what they will do. Ask any player that question. I have seen too many players transfer because they didn't want to play where the coach wanted them and you never heard about them again.
Thank you TPM you answered my question completely and even added a few more names to my list in my previous post of players who made position switches.
Our oldest was a LHP/1B/OF in high school, converted to a switch hitting CF in college, played 5 seasons RF/CF/LF in the minors and a few call ups, and was called up again last August to play 1B. Every change was made to fill a team need and eventually lead to a job at the next level. Hopefully, this last one will have the same effect. 
TxMom,
"Hopefully, this last one will have the same effect."
I'll second that! We will all be wishing him the best this season!
"Hopefully, this last one will have the same effect."
I'll second that! We will all be wishing him the best this season!
quote:Originally posted by coach2709:
Thank you TPM ... even added a few more names to my list in my previous post of players who made position switches.
Here's another one. From Wikipedia
:On March 20, 2006, Nationals manager Frank Robinson wrote Soriano in the lineup to play left field. Soriano, who since 2001 had played exclusively at second base, refused to take the field, and the Nationals organization threatened him with disqualification, which would have meant forfeiture of his salary, and he would not have received credit for service time in fulfillment of the obligations of his contract. With his contract's service terms officially still unfulfilled, he would then not have been eligible for free agency at season's end.
Two days later, Soriano relented and played in left field for the Nationals in their exhibition game against the St. Louis Cardinals. Robinson indicated that he considered Soriano's move to left field to be permanent and he will not consider moving Soriano back to second base at any point this season. In his comments following that game, Soriano indicated that he would accept his new position without further argument. As the season got underway, however, Soriano began to enjoy his new position, and by the All-Star break, he led the league in outfield assists and became one of the few players ever to start the All-Star game at two different positions.
Soriano has enjoyed the greatest season in his career in 2006. He shattered his previous career high in walks with 67 (previously 38). He also reached a career high in home runs with 46 (previously 39). He also had 41 stolen bases. On August 25, a week after reaching 30-30, he became the fastest man in baseball history to reach 200 home runs and 200 stolen bases, reaching the mark in 929 games (breaking the previous record of 1,053 games held by Eric Davis..
Just play!
Txmom,
There ya go!
Fingers crossed! Lots of good wishes!
Infidel,
Thanks for the post I had added something to my original post, but wasn't sure who it was.
MLB players have little or no say until they reach FA status and good to point out this happens at ALL levels.
There ya go!
Fingers crossed! Lots of good wishes!
Infidel,
Thanks for the post I had added something to my original post, but wasn't sure who it was.
MLB players have little or no say until they reach FA status and good to point out this happens at ALL levels.
Infidel_08 thank you for making my point, after all the thousands of players that have played in the MLB few can cited as having converted to another position with great success. Usually the older a player gets the closer he gets to playing one of the corners on in the INF. Standard stuff to help keep a big bat in the lineup...as is used in the American League.
I understand why there is a "circling of the wagons here". Discussions and debates of coaching methods usally do that, try speaking about a new procedure being introduced in medicine and see how the wagons are circled.
I really admire the loyalty that is expressed here to what you have been taught and watched as your son's have been taking through years of trial and error.
Just remember that each player on defense and offense in bb is a specialist at that position. If I want a specialist I teach them the speciality not a liberal general education that is not pertinent to the task. That is where we sttart with a player in LL but we want to movve away from that as soon as psssible.
What a player needs to achieve is the ability to play his position based upon instinct. Everytime you move him you make him have to think instead of react. That delay can cost the team a game and the chance to win.
I stand by my statement, show me a coach that moves his players around from position to position and I'll bet he loses more than he wins.
JMO
I understand why there is a "circling of the wagons here". Discussions and debates of coaching methods usally do that, try speaking about a new procedure being introduced in medicine and see how the wagons are circled.
I really admire the loyalty that is expressed here to what you have been taught and watched as your son's have been taking through years of trial and error.
Just remember that each player on defense and offense in bb is a specialist at that position. If I want a specialist I teach them the speciality not a liberal general education that is not pertinent to the task. That is where we sttart with a player in LL but we want to movve away from that as soon as psssible.
What a player needs to achieve is the ability to play his position based upon instinct. Everytime you move him you make him have to think instead of react. That delay can cost the team a game and the chance to win.
I stand by my statement, show me a coach that moves his players around from position to position and I'll bet he loses more than he wins.
JMO
quote:Originally posted by LLorton:
That is where we sttart with a player in LL but we want to movve away from that as soon as psssible.
You changed this around, we are not talking LL here. We are talking about a HS or college player coming in and playing at another position.
What a player needs to achieve is the ability to play his position based upon instinct. Everytime you move him you make him have to think instead of react. That delay can cost the team a game and the chance to win.
Good talented players can adapt to any position easily.
I stand by my statement, show me a coach that moves his players around from position to position and I'll bet he loses more than he wins.
This is not about changing players around on a daily basis, but deciding where he fits into helping the team. The original post was about a catcher (who also pitches) helping the team in where they need help with the most to achieve success.
Your position leads me to beleive that you beleive that a catcher who is not getting it done you leave him at the position because his parents spent lots of money to make him a catcher?
JMO
LL
You miss the point completely and then some
Coaches , at the HS level,don't just move players around on a whim---they use players in the best positions to help their team succeed
Have you written a book on your theories?
Have you got players in MLB that played for you/
What level do you coach right now?
What is your track record?
You miss the point completely and then some
Coaches , at the HS level,don't just move players around on a whim---they use players in the best positions to help their team succeed
Have you written a book on your theories?
Have you got players in MLB that played for you/
What level do you coach right now?
What is your track record?
Teach your kids from LL on to do whatever the coach asks with a positive and unselfish attitude...even if that means cheering from the bench. When your son focuses on team goals, individual success often follows.
Life is a group project.
Life is a group project.
quote:Originally posted by TxMom:
Teach your kids from LL on to do whatever his coach asks with a positive and unselfish attitude...even if that means cheering from the bench. When your son focuses on team goals, individual success often follows.
Life is a group project.
Great post TxMom.
LL I would love to see the answers to TR's questions. If you are going to get on here and make some outlandish statements you better have proof to back them up.
Do you realize you are the only one supporting your theories? Everyone from various different places in baseball - successful HS coaches, successful travel coaches, parents of successful players - all support playing where needed.
I want to know exactly what you would say / do if a coach moves your son to another position.
What you are saying is it's better to focus on one kid to make them and their parents happy and if you win great but if you don't win then it's no big deal because the one kid in this matter is taken care of. Coaches (which I highly doubt you have ever done at a high level) have to worry about the whole team and not just one player.
LL needs to go read the article in the thread "we only recruit 4 positions".
I think that article just about wraps it up.
I think that article just about wraps it up.
quote:Originally posted by TPM:
LL needs to go read the article in the thread "we only recruit 4 positions".
I think that article just about wraps it up.
Very good point.
4290,
Your son will be placed where the team needs him. I have seen it first hand. My son played every position in Little League and travelball and it benefited him tremendously. He is currently a sophomore in H.S. and has played every position except first base. He likes the fact that he can be counted on and his openess with this is a coaches dream. Your son may be a pitcher now then all of a sudden get moved back to catcher. It is in the coaches hands now and regardless of how you feel they will do what is best for the team.
Currently my son is playing SS but I am sure he will be playing a different position next year on Varsity. The fact that your son has a good arm means he will have many more opportunites to play different positions. Coaches love strong arms and kids that can play different spots.
Good luck and let it play out....
Your son will be placed where the team needs him. I have seen it first hand. My son played every position in Little League and travelball and it benefited him tremendously. He is currently a sophomore in H.S. and has played every position except first base. He likes the fact that he can be counted on and his openess with this is a coaches dream. Your son may be a pitcher now then all of a sudden get moved back to catcher. It is in the coaches hands now and regardless of how you feel they will do what is best for the team.
Currently my son is playing SS but I am sure he will be playing a different position next year on Varsity. The fact that your son has a good arm means he will have many more opportunites to play different positions. Coaches love strong arms and kids that can play different spots.
Good luck and let it play out....
In concern for 4290's son, which is the reason for this tread, he expressed a concern that he had been helping his son develope as a catcher, and apparently because the team needs pitching his son is being used more at pitching then as a catcher.
That spawned this discussion because in my first post I posed a hypothetical A1 or 7-7 player who might fit in the catcher-pitcher scenario of my coaching philosophy and how I would use this player where he could help the team the most. As 7-7 hs prospect he would be my catcher. Why, because 7-7 has a meaning in bb coaching. To change a 7-7 prospect from his current position to play something else part-time, or otherwise, is not using that player where he can help the team the most, IMO.
I also indicated if the player were moderately good a 5-5, 5-6 type it would not be such a large sacrifice for him or the team. But it's just not moving them it's realizing that teaching them to play that one position takes time, and as he goes through the learning curve he will make mistakes...eg, errors that can cost you games.
That's the reason my premise is from the very beginning of this thread have stated that moving players from position to positon causes a player to go through learning curves at each position.
This is because each position on that diamond has very sophisticated skill nuances that require reaction by instinct, not delayed response, things like proper foot work(first step direction, hop-skip, foot alignment to target), alignment of the shoulders, weight transfer, short arm or long arm throw, release point, quick release versus extended release, etc are just some of the things that can cause bad throws, off-line, or over-under throws to create critical errors under pressure during the game.
With pitchers and catchers the skills are even more sophisticated and take much longer to teach and master. Pitchers and catchers are battery mates, but are not interchangeable if they are learning the techniques specific to their craft. They are interchangeable to some if the coach has a philosophy where he only coaches for his level only and doesn't care if he hurts a kid potential career or not.
Not once have I advocated that anyone here change anything they are doing with their son's or their teams. This has been an esoteric discussion for me of coaching philosophy.
I stated from the beginning I learned to use the Pro Scout Rating System(PSRS) to set proper goals of what our team would use as the grading system for everyone to work toward. That we did and we monitor the progress of our players against the various 5 tool minimums and ideals.
I have also watched many coaching methods and through my own experience formulated my methods. One thing I noticed and have stated here repeatedly, that coaches that move players from one position to another usually do not fare as well with their teams as coaches who teach to a position for excellence in performance.
These are my conclusions, and mine alone, I have opined as anyone else here...yet I see noone else here who is presenting their opinions on coaching being attacked for their coaching philososphy. Maybe bb is more like checkers or chess for them I don't know...for me coaching is about training young men to become specialist at a position on the bb diamond, and their right to qualify for a position is based upon how they measure up against their peer group using the PSRS. It is not personal and in that way it is not politics that decides who makes the team or who gets to play as part of what goes into the result...it is based strictly on their ability to perform the 5 tools better than another player.
Thanks for your input.
JMO
That spawned this discussion because in my first post I posed a hypothetical A1 or 7-7 player who might fit in the catcher-pitcher scenario of my coaching philosophy and how I would use this player where he could help the team the most. As 7-7 hs prospect he would be my catcher. Why, because 7-7 has a meaning in bb coaching. To change a 7-7 prospect from his current position to play something else part-time, or otherwise, is not using that player where he can help the team the most, IMO.
I also indicated if the player were moderately good a 5-5, 5-6 type it would not be such a large sacrifice for him or the team. But it's just not moving them it's realizing that teaching them to play that one position takes time, and as he goes through the learning curve he will make mistakes...eg, errors that can cost you games.
That's the reason my premise is from the very beginning of this thread have stated that moving players from position to positon causes a player to go through learning curves at each position.
This is because each position on that diamond has very sophisticated skill nuances that require reaction by instinct, not delayed response, things like proper foot work(first step direction, hop-skip, foot alignment to target), alignment of the shoulders, weight transfer, short arm or long arm throw, release point, quick release versus extended release, etc are just some of the things that can cause bad throws, off-line, or over-under throws to create critical errors under pressure during the game.
With pitchers and catchers the skills are even more sophisticated and take much longer to teach and master. Pitchers and catchers are battery mates, but are not interchangeable if they are learning the techniques specific to their craft. They are interchangeable to some if the coach has a philosophy where he only coaches for his level only and doesn't care if he hurts a kid potential career or not.
Not once have I advocated that anyone here change anything they are doing with their son's or their teams. This has been an esoteric discussion for me of coaching philosophy.
I stated from the beginning I learned to use the Pro Scout Rating System(PSRS) to set proper goals of what our team would use as the grading system for everyone to work toward. That we did and we monitor the progress of our players against the various 5 tool minimums and ideals.
I have also watched many coaching methods and through my own experience formulated my methods. One thing I noticed and have stated here repeatedly, that coaches that move players from one position to another usually do not fare as well with their teams as coaches who teach to a position for excellence in performance.
These are my conclusions, and mine alone, I have opined as anyone else here...yet I see noone else here who is presenting their opinions on coaching being attacked for their coaching philososphy. Maybe bb is more like checkers or chess for them I don't know...for me coaching is about training young men to become specialist at a position on the bb diamond, and their right to qualify for a position is based upon how they measure up against their peer group using the PSRS. It is not personal and in that way it is not politics that decides who makes the team or who gets to play as part of what goes into the result...it is based strictly on their ability to perform the 5 tools better than another player.
Thanks for your input.
JMO
The odds are against most players playing the same position from youth to high school to college to professional baseball.
Using any grading system, many players "profile" at a different position than the one they play in high school.
One of the top defensive catchers in high school baseball this year, played left field and hit 4th for his high school last year. He didn't catch because he was behind a senior catcher who signed with a DI school.
So I think it's more about where they can help the high school the most rather than how they grade out in the five tools. If you have two kids grade out the best and equally as shortstops... One of them is going to play a different position.
Using any grading system, many players "profile" at a different position than the one they play in high school.
One of the top defensive catchers in high school baseball this year, played left field and hit 4th for his high school last year. He didn't catch because he was behind a senior catcher who signed with a DI school.
So I think it's more about where they can help the high school the most rather than how they grade out in the five tools. If you have two kids grade out the best and equally as shortstops... One of them is going to play a different position.
PGStaff there is no disagreement with your premise...and I understand now of how the thrust of the argument here became misinterpreted.
No where in any post have I ever said that a coach shouldn't evaluate a players abilities at different positions...that is after all part of the PSRS process. My experience shows that staging player development so it incrementalizes based upon their ratings helps a coach to utilize a player a and place him where he should be playing to "help" the team, since that is the criteria of the acceptiblility concensus here.
I can't go through and connect the dots for everyone here, but if the scout rating system really does have meaning in evaluating players then every coach in this country should be using it to evaluate the player development, though there are many other development tools also.
The reason is based on the fact that it is what the scouts are using to select players for the draft, but also they are using it to eliminate players.
That means players may be eliminated who through no fault of their own haven't had the benefit of the information, or knowledge of its impact on their potential career in baseball and as a result did not follow a rigid goal oriented PSRS path because coaches would rather use their own gradients to evaluate players.
It's like scouts are playing by one set of rules, while coaches and players are ignoring them until they come smack up against the PSRS criteria, and find out to late that they could have been setting their goals all along to meet the PSRS standard, but haven't because they have been playing for a coach that only gives it cursory importance.
The game has rules, and the rules for the player to meet MLB standards are those in the PSRS. IMO it is this process for evaluation and player development that should be standardized and should begin at the LL level and progress with the player as a standard record for a player who is being considered by hs, colleges, and the MLB.
Now as far as the impact of changing a player from position to position I will leave you with this summary.
Alex Rodriguez, who changed his position from SS to 3B with the Yankees...while considered one of the best players ever in baseball, faltered and made numerous errors while he was going through his learning curve of adjusting his skills to accomodate the new requirements for his foot work, release point and the like. Many blamed him for the Yankees poor performance. It had such dire consequences he was almost run out of New York. His batting also suffered during his first season with them as it affected him psychologically. Last season he started to finally feel more comfortable and confident with the 3B to 1B skills, such that he began to relax with his AB's and did much better.
Though a player may be required to play other positions it goes directly to how well and how long that player will finally take to be good enough to make that same transition that took Alex Rodriguez several seasons...and he is a great athlete and one of the best 5 tool players. Think how much longer and harder it becomes for players that are not like an Alex Rodriguez?
JMO
I'm out...
No where in any post have I ever said that a coach shouldn't evaluate a players abilities at different positions...that is after all part of the PSRS process. My experience shows that staging player development so it incrementalizes based upon their ratings helps a coach to utilize a player a and place him where he should be playing to "help" the team, since that is the criteria of the acceptiblility concensus here.
I can't go through and connect the dots for everyone here, but if the scout rating system really does have meaning in evaluating players then every coach in this country should be using it to evaluate the player development, though there are many other development tools also.
The reason is based on the fact that it is what the scouts are using to select players for the draft, but also they are using it to eliminate players.
That means players may be eliminated who through no fault of their own haven't had the benefit of the information, or knowledge of its impact on their potential career in baseball and as a result did not follow a rigid goal oriented PSRS path because coaches would rather use their own gradients to evaluate players.
It's like scouts are playing by one set of rules, while coaches and players are ignoring them until they come smack up against the PSRS criteria, and find out to late that they could have been setting their goals all along to meet the PSRS standard, but haven't because they have been playing for a coach that only gives it cursory importance.
The game has rules, and the rules for the player to meet MLB standards are those in the PSRS. IMO it is this process for evaluation and player development that should be standardized and should begin at the LL level and progress with the player as a standard record for a player who is being considered by hs, colleges, and the MLB.
Now as far as the impact of changing a player from position to position I will leave you with this summary.
Alex Rodriguez, who changed his position from SS to 3B with the Yankees...while considered one of the best players ever in baseball, faltered and made numerous errors while he was going through his learning curve of adjusting his skills to accomodate the new requirements for his foot work, release point and the like. Many blamed him for the Yankees poor performance. It had such dire consequences he was almost run out of New York. His batting also suffered during his first season with them as it affected him psychologically. Last season he started to finally feel more comfortable and confident with the 3B to 1B skills, such that he began to relax with his AB's and did much better.
Though a player may be required to play other positions it goes directly to how well and how long that player will finally take to be good enough to make that same transition that took Alex Rodriguez several seasons...and he is a great athlete and one of the best 5 tool players. Think how much longer and harder it becomes for players that are not like an Alex Rodriguez?
JMO
I'm out...
Just in the interest of accuracy.
Actually Alex Rodriguez worst year playing 3B was 2006, his third year at that position.
His first year he had more assists, more put outs, more DPs than he did in his third year at 3B. Yet he made 13 errors in 2004, 12 errors in 2005 and then 24 errors in 2006. In 2005 he was the league MVP.
LL, I'm not sure I understand exactly what you mean. But IMO FWIW...
A typical high school team will have mostly players who grade out 2 in the 2-8 MLB scouting system. I can’t follow why a coach needs to grade tools of the players he sees every day in order to figure out his line up. Can’t we just watch them field and figure out who should play shortstop?
The scouting system I think you are referring to is designed to compare players from all parts of the country to MLB standards. If a professional scout watched a team for an extended period of time he wouldn’t need to grade the players to figure out which position they need to play. But he might play people at different positions than the position they think they’re best at.
Also it takes a certain amount of experience to accurately grade players in areas that require a scouts opinion. A catcher graded an overall 7 by an inexperienced person might be graded a 2 by a professional scout.
Do agree that tools are important when considering position, but using the MLB grading system would leave a coach with a lot of NPs if he knew how to grade. Maybe a system simply geared to the team would make more sense. Fastest outfielder on the team in center, best arm in right, best athlete who can play infield at SS, etc.
Actually Alex Rodriguez worst year playing 3B was 2006, his third year at that position.
His first year he had more assists, more put outs, more DPs than he did in his third year at 3B. Yet he made 13 errors in 2004, 12 errors in 2005 and then 24 errors in 2006. In 2005 he was the league MVP.
LL, I'm not sure I understand exactly what you mean. But IMO FWIW...
A typical high school team will have mostly players who grade out 2 in the 2-8 MLB scouting system. I can’t follow why a coach needs to grade tools of the players he sees every day in order to figure out his line up. Can’t we just watch them field and figure out who should play shortstop?
The scouting system I think you are referring to is designed to compare players from all parts of the country to MLB standards. If a professional scout watched a team for an extended period of time he wouldn’t need to grade the players to figure out which position they need to play. But he might play people at different positions than the position they think they’re best at.
Also it takes a certain amount of experience to accurately grade players in areas that require a scouts opinion. A catcher graded an overall 7 by an inexperienced person might be graded a 2 by a professional scout.
Do agree that tools are important when considering position, but using the MLB grading system would leave a coach with a lot of NPs if he knew how to grade. Maybe a system simply geared to the team would make more sense. Fastest outfielder on the team in center, best arm in right, best athlete who can play infield at SS, etc.
LL
You continually state "in my experience" ---answer my questions in a previous post and perhaps we will have a better idea as to why you are so freaking brilliant in your own mind
What is your experience anyway?
You continually state "in my experience" ---answer my questions in a previous post and perhaps we will have a better idea as to why you are so freaking brilliant in your own mind
What is your experience anyway?