Posted article from Eric Cressey removed on showcases

Steve A. posted:

Just as an aside. Dr. James Andrews recommends "at least 2 months, preferably 3-4 months of no overhead throwing per year," at the youth level. The majority of these velocity camps are held when??? Winter, indoor, off season, not good.  

I agree with that and really like 3 months. I would only add that I think the year long schedule gives more rather than less options for taking time off. However, yes, there are those who don't, but that's on them. I'll even admit I made the same mistake with my son this past off season. I had shut him down in October with the plan not to start him up until mid-late December. However, there was a local camp (actually a thinly disguised showcase during the dead period) where about 20 D1 schools were attending. Three or four schools told my son they'd like to see him there and we geared up in late November for this. In hindsight, there was interest, but no more or less than he would have gotten from them without showing up to this thing. he did get interest from a few schools that came from this, but for the schools he was already offered by or interested in, they didn't see anything they hadn't already seen. I won't make the same mistake again. There has been no harm done, but...

roothog66 posted:

Steve A. posted:

Just as an aside. Dr. James Andrews recommends "at least 2 months, preferably 3-4 months of no overhead throwing per year," at the youth level. The majority of these velocity camps are held when??? Winter, indoor, off season, not good.  

I agree with that and really like 3 months. I would only add that I think the year long schedule gives more rather than less options for taking time off. However, yes, there are those who don't, but that's on them. I'll even admit I made the same mistake with my son this past off season. I had shut him down in October with the plan not to start him up until mid-late December. However, there was a local camp (actually a thinly disguised showcase during the dead period) where about 20 D1 schools were attending. Three or four schools told my son they'd like to see him there and we geared up in late November for this. In hindsight, there was interest, but no more or less than he would have gotten from them without showing up to this thing. he did get interest from a few schools that came from this, but for the schools he was already offered by or interested in, they didn't see anything they hadn't already seen. I won't make the same mistake again. There has been no harm done, but...

Sounds like your boy is fortunate to have you to rely on. Clearly, you get it. Please keep me in the loop as things progress. My 13 yo is in the mix & these opportunities are already presenting themselves & you can feel the pull as a parent. Sometimes less is more I suppose & we need to remember that. Have really enjoyed this conversation.

roothog66 posted:

...Three or four schools told my son they'd like to see him there and we geared up in late November for this. In hindsight, there was interest, but no more or less than he would have gotten from them without showing up to this thing. he did get interest from a few schools that came from this, but for the schools he was already offered by or interested in, they didn't see anything they hadn't already seen. I won't make the same mistake again. There has been no harm done, but...

Well now, we are on the same page after all.... 

roothog66 posted:

Your claim that you see more 8th, 9th, and 10th graders with arm issues. Jus keep in mind that there are a lot of factors that make it tough to put a universal tag on this to the extent that you can call it a epidemic, as some have. First, over how many years are you talking? A long enough time and a large enough sample to make it predictable? For example, I was sitting here today trying to even think of a single kid from our area during youth ball with an arm issue. I clicked off almost a hundred pitchers in my head and could come up with none. Now, I realize, that's probably a statistical anomaly, but if I were to let my personal experience lead the ay, I'd conclude that you people are crazy and there's no problem whatsoever. However, I know that isn't true.

I think some are getting the idea that I'm saying nothing is wrong and overuse isn't a problem. That's not at all what I'm trying to say. I'm saying overuse has been a problem as long as baseball has been around and I'm definitely of the opinion that something should - and I believe something is - being done about it.

On the 2020 PM we are discussing this issue as well.  The consensus seems to be that at 11u-14u you don't get tears you get breaks because in younger players the ligaments are stronger than the bones/growth plates.  So instead of the tear, you get a fracture.  Multiple people have reported several pitchers are down on their teams due to "arm issues", several warnings from doctors about growth plates not being able to handle the speed that the kid is trying to throw and we have had reports of one 2020 having TJ and multiple 2019's and 2018's.

What's that saying.....just because you can't see it doesn't mean it isn't happening. 

CaCO3Girl posted:

roothog66 posted:

Your claim that you see more 8th, 9th, and 10th graders with arm issues. Jus keep in mind that there are a lot of factors that make it tough to put a universal tag on this to the extent that you can call it a epidemic, as some have. First, over how many years are you talking? A long enough time and a large enough sample to make it predictable? For example, I was sitting here today trying to even think of a single kid from our area during youth ball with an arm issue. I clicked off almost a hundred pitchers in my head and could come up with none. Now, I realize, that's probably a statistical anomaly, but if I were to let my personal experience lead the ay, I'd conclude that you people are crazy and there's no problem whatsoever. However, I know that isn't true.

I think some are getting the idea that I'm saying nothing is wrong and overuse isn't a problem. That's not at all what I'm trying to say. I'm saying overuse has been a problem as long as baseball has been around and I'm definitely of the opinion that something should - and I believe something is - being done about it.

On the 2020 PM we are discussing this issue as well.  The consensus seems to be that at 11u-14u you don't get tears you get breaks because in younger players the ligaments are stronger than the bones/growth plates.  So instead of the tear, you get a fracture.  Multiple people have reported several pitchers are down on their teams due to "arm issues", several warnings from doctors about growth plates not being able to handle the speed that the kid is trying to throw and we have had reports of one 2020 having TJ and multiple 2019's and 2018's.

What's that saying.....just because you can't see it doesn't mean it isn't happening. 

You really are misreading me. I have never said it isn't happening. I'm saying it's been happening for over 150 years and that we're just recently getting around to addressing it. My point is that young pitchers were being overused long, long before travel ball became a thing - probably more than even today. In Little League, I can remember pitching two complete games I a day and that wasn't abnormal at all. Many LL teams would go an entire season with one pitcher pitching 90% of the innings. High Schools often did the same. I was recently looking at the leader board at our high school. I keep having to remind my son there are records there he'll have no chance of breaking because of pitching limits. Our school record for wins is 13. That may not sound like much until you realize that guy (a long time major leaguer) picked up those 13 wins with an 18 game schedule and he was not a reliever. In high school, I once pitched a complete game in a 20-18 win and threw again two days later. No one thought anything of it. It wasn't even a remarkable feat. I have no idea how many pitches I threw, but it was a lot - a whole lot. That's my point. So, if you were reading my posts as advocating for the position that overuse isn't a problem, that wasn't the point at all. My argument centered more on what evidence can logically be used to prove a point and what can't. that's really all it was.

Note on the guy with the school record. His father was one of the leading figures objecting to the implementation of pitch counts in Colorado last year. He hated the idea. His contention was that his kid didn't even get warmed up until he had thrown 90 pitches. Now, his kid is probably one of the genetically gifted that I spoke of earlier. He threw 12 years in the Bigs with no arm problems. So, Dad's perception was probably tainted there by his own experiences with his own son.

justbaseball posted:

roothog66 posted:

...Three or four schools told my son they'd like to see him there and we geared up in late November for this. In hindsight, there was interest, but no more or less than he would have gotten from them without showing up to this thing. he did get interest from a few schools that came from this, but for the schools he was already offered by or interested in, they didn't see anything they hadn't already seen. I won't make the same mistake again. There has been no harm done, but...

Well now, we are on the same page after all.... 

That's it in a nutshell. 

TPM posted:

justbaseball posted:

roothog66 posted:

...Three or four schools told my son they'd like to see him there and we geared up in late November for this. In hindsight, there was interest, but no more or less than he would have gotten from them without showing up to this thing. he did get interest from a few schools that came from this, but for the schools he was already offered by or interested in, they didn't see anything they hadn't already seen. I won't make the same mistake again. There has been no harm done, but...

Well now, we are on the same page after all.... 

That's it in a nutshell. 

I'll even admit that TPM told me not to do it. The truth is, I can see how some get caught up in the need to be at everything. In that instance, he wasn't throwing any harder than he was in July when they last saw him. It screwed around with his off-season schedule. Like I said, I got caught up with it and I consider myself fairly well informed. This summer, he has been bombarded by requests and we've tried to narrow it down and not feel pressured. So, other than his summer team's tourney schedule there's PG Junior nationals, Area Code Tryouts (and Area Code Games if lucky enough). that's pretty much it. Jupiter being a big maybe. Nov, Dec, and Jan off-season. If the schools that are interested can't see him in those and a couple of PG tourneys, then we'll live with it.

roothog66 posted:

TPM posted:

justbaseball posted:

roothog66 posted:

...Three or four schools told my son they'd like to see him there and we geared up in late November for this. In hindsight, there was interest, but no more or less than he would have gotten from them without showing up to this thing. he did get interest from a few schools that came from this, but for the schools he was already offered by or interested in, they didn't see anything they hadn't already seen. I won't make the same mistake again. There has been no harm done, but...

Well now, we are on the same page after all.... 

That's it in a nutshell. 

I'll even admit that TPM told me not to do it. The truth is, I can see how some get caught up in the need to be at everything. In that instance, he wasn't throwing any harder than he was in July when they last saw him. It screwed around with his off-season schedule. Like I said, I got caught up with it and I consider myself fairly well informed. This summer, he has been bombarded by requests and we've tried to narrow it down and not feel pressured. So, other than his summer team's tourney schedule there's PG Junior nationals, Area Code Tryouts (and Area Code Games if lucky enough). that's pretty much it. Jupiter being a big maybe. Nov, Dec, and Jan off-season. If the schools that are interested can't see him in those and a couple of PG tourneys, then we'll live with it.

Root, can you expand on that last thought and list the dates (or just months) of those events?  We are close to having an invaluable post to note for others.

Well, June is crazy as he'll do the PG Nationals in Fort Meyers and then fly to Phoenix for the Underclass Area Code Tryouts. Other than that, he has one tournament the first week of June an one in Fayetteville, AR the last month. July will be two PG tourneys - the WWBA 17u and The 16u World Series. The team has nothing scheduled in August. That month has been saved for individual school camps. I am hopeful he won't need to go to one. He actually hopes to have decided by then. September has two local tournaments. If there is some need, we might do Jupiter in October. I've sort of come to the realization that if you can't get it done with that schedule, adding four more showcases in there isn't going to help. Then he can start gearing up for high school in early February with some off season work in between.  

Forgot one. Our state final four is the weekend of May 28. Hopefully, we'll be playing. If not, he's signed up for the PG Rocky Mountain Showcase. There's no money lost there, so it would be a good warm up for the Jr. Nationals.

roothog66 posted:

TPM posted:

justbaseball posted:

roothog66 posted:

...Three or four schools told my son they'd like to see him there and we geared up in late November for this. In hindsight, there was interest, but no more or less than he would have gotten from them without showing up to this thing. he did get interest from a few schools that came from this, but for the schools he was already offered by or interested in, they didn't see anything they hadn't already seen. I won't make the same mistake again. There has been no harm done, but...

Well now, we are on the same page after all.... 

That's it in a nutshell. 

I'll even admit that TPM told me not to do it. The truth is, I can see how some get caught up in the need to be at everything. In that instance, he wasn't throwing any harder than he was in July when they last saw him. It screwed around with his off-season schedule. Like I said, I got caught up with it and I consider myself fairly well informed. This summer, he has been bombarded by requests and we've tried to narrow it down and not feel pressured. So, other than his summer team's tourney schedule there's PG Junior nationals, Area Code Tryouts (and Area Code Games if lucky enough). that's pretty much it. Jupiter being a big maybe. Nov, Dec, and Jan off-season. If the schools that are interested can't see him in those and a couple of PG tourneys, then we'll live with it.

I guess I am not so stupid after all.

I think you are helping us bring up the point some of us are making. One does not need to do all this stuff. It becomes overwhelming. It can become too much for the pitcher. Hitters can showcase every weekend, they only get better with more at bats. Pitchers are using up the bullets, I know some don't believe that, I do. Stay as healthy as you can for as long as you can.

As far as CaCo last post, I agree. I am going to say that more than likely our southeast location turns out a lot of great players, but many injuries as well. Was it happening when my son was in HS, yes but to a much lessor degree than you hear about today. I don't know of any HS player son played with in his graduatino class who wanted to go to college who didn't make it because of injury.  That year there were lots of 90+ pitchers from here. Some were drafted and still playing mlb. All have had TJS or labrum issues. But guess what, they made it. 

That's the whole point isn't it?  And telling us you take your son to the chiropractor before he pitches even proves to me that in your mind you fear injury.  

If you were doing all the right things why would you?

TPM posted:

roothog66 posted:

TPM posted:

justbaseball posted:

roothog66 posted:

...Three or four schools told my son they'd like to see him there and we geared up in late November for this. In hindsight, there was interest, but no more or less than he would have gotten from them without showing up to this thing. he did get interest from a few schools that came from this, but for the schools he was already offered by or interested in, they didn't see anything they hadn't already seen. I won't make the same mistake again. There has been no harm done, but...

Well now, we are on the same page after all.... 

That's it in a nutshell. 

I'll even admit that TPM told me not to do it. The truth is, I can see how some get caught up in the need to be at everything. In that instance, he wasn't throwing any harder than he was in July when they last saw him. It screwed around with his off-season schedule. Like I said, I got caught up with it and I consider myself fairly well informed. This summer, he has been bombarded by requests and we've tried to narrow it down and not feel pressured. So, other than his summer team's tourney schedule there's PG Junior nationals, Area Code Tryouts (and Area Code Games if lucky enough). that's pretty much it. Jupiter being a big maybe. Nov, Dec, and Jan off-season. If the schools that are interested can't see him in those and a couple of PG tourneys, then we'll live with it.

I guess I am not so stupid after all.

I think you are helping us bring up the point some of us are making. One does not need to do all this stuff. It becomes overwhelming. It can become too much for the pitcher. Hitters can showcase every weekend, they only get better with more at bats. Pitchers are using up the bullets, I know some don't believe that, I do. Stay as healthy as you can for as long as you can.

As far as CaCo last post, I agree. I am going to say that more than likely our southeast location turns out a lot of great players, but many injuries as well. Was it happening when my son was in HS, yes but to a much lessor degree than you hear about today. I don't know of any HS player son played with in his graduatino class who wanted to go to college who didn't make it because of injury.  That year there were lots of 90+ pitchers from here. Some were drafted and still playing mlb. All have had TJS or labrum issues. But guess what, they made it. 

That's the whole point isn't it?  And telling us you take your son to the chiropractor before he pitches even proves to me that in your mind you fear injury.  

If you were doing all the right things why would you?

Wow. Not sure WTH that is supposed to mean. He has scoliosis and his hips get misaligned. He feels better and it keeps him pain-free.

You didn't say that, you didn't present all of the evidence counselor!

roothog66 posted:

Well, June is crazy as he'll do the PG Nationals in Fort Meyers and then fly to Phoenix for the Underclass Area Code Tryouts. Other than that, he has one tournament the first week of June an one in Fayetteville, AR the last month. July will be two PG tourneys - the WWBA 17u and The 16u World Series. The team has nothing scheduled in August. That month has been saved for individual school camps. I am hopeful he won't need to go to one. He actually hopes to have decided by then. September has two local tournaments. If there is some need, we might do Jupiter in October. I've sort of come to the realization that if you can't get it done with that schedule, adding four more showcases in there isn't going to help. Then he can start gearing up for high school in early February with some off season work in between.  

Forgot one. Our state final four is the weekend of May 28. Hopefully, we'll be playing. If not, he's signed up for the PG Rocky Mountain Showcase. There's no money lost there, so it would be a good warm up for the Jr. Nationals.

Thanks Root and best of luck to him with both the HS state chase and the recruiting trail!  Hope you don't mind, I'm going to take some of your timeframe combined with one of your previous posts to make a point to the younger crowd.

One story - I think relevant.

I had this kid at age 10 playing on our local all star team.  Nice kid, lots of natural 'tools' if you can say that about a 10-year old.  Smallish, but fast as lightning and he could hit and hit with some power.  Not a pitcher really, outfielder.  Could pitch some - decent arm.

About this time our older son was getting recruited for college, so the kid's dad (kind of a Silicon Valley geek - thats ok, maybe I am/was too?) got real interested in how this all unfolded with our older son.  Before I knew it, this dad had his kid running all over the place with lessons, tournament teams (plural), travel ball, rec ball...just about everything you could imagine, at the same time, all year.  Its somewhat typical of Silicon Valley folks to go 'all in' on something - I just think his dad was focused on, 'My son is good, I'm going to give him every chance I can and I know people get really good at things by doing them a lot.'

10 years old.

When the kid hits about 12, his son was nowhere to be found.  So I started poking around.  Turns out he was on mandatory 'shutdown' for about a 1/2 year from his pediatrician.  Why?  I will get this wrong (medically) but basically he was suffering from back and shoulder problems from too many repetitive body motions.  I can believe it, that kid was probably in the cage 360 days a year, not to mention all kinds of other training.

12 years old!

I had never even heard of a kid getting that kind of injury?!  12-freaking-years-old!!

He shoulda been playing soccer and basketball for parts of the year - which is pretty much what the doctor told him - but his dad was focused on getting his son to college baseball from age 10.

The kid eventually got back on the field, but his dad went right back to the 'do something every day of every week to get better' method, maybe even intensified it.  I actually felt sorry for the kid - his eyes looked a little absent to me - just executing like a machine.  By the time HS rolled around, the kid was on the team and started, but was barely noticeable.  I think he coulda been better in a different situation.

These are the types of overuse injuries that seem to be seen more often now.  Nope, don't have data to prove it.  But to me it seems clear what happened in this...that didn't have to happen.

Let your kids....be kids!!

justbaseball posted:

One story - I think relevant.

I had this kid at age 10 playing on our local all star team.  Nice kid, lots of natural 'tools' if you can say that about a 10-year old.  Smallish, but fast as lightning and he could hit and hit with some power.  Not a pitcher really, outfielder.  Could pitch some - decent arm.

About this time our older son was getting recruited for college, so the kid's dad (kind of a Silicon Valley geek - thats ok, maybe I am/was too?) got real interested in how this all unfolded with our older son.  Before I knew it, this dad had his kid running all over the place with lessons, tournament teams (plural), travel ball, rec ball...just about everything you could imagine, at the same time, all year.  Its somewhat typical of Silicon Valley folks to go 'all in' on something - I just think his dad was focused on, 'My son is good, I'm going to give him every chance I can and I know people get really good at things by doing them a lot.'

10 years old.

When the kid hits about 12, his son was nowhere to be found.  So I started poking around.  Turns out he was on mandatory 'shutdown' for about a 1/2 year from his pediatrician.  Why?  I will get this wrong (medically) but basically he was suffering from back and shoulder problems from too many repetitive body motions.  I can believe it, that kid was probably in the cage 360 days a year, not to mention all kinds of other training.

12 years old!

I had never even heard of a kid getting that kind of injury?!  12-freaking-years-old!!

He shoulda been playing soccer and basketball for parts of the year - which is pretty much what the doctor told him - but his dad was focused on getting his son to college baseball from age 10.

The kid eventually got back on the field, but his dad went right back to the 'do something every day of every week to get better' method, maybe even intensified it.  I actually felt sorry for the kid - his eyes looked a little absent to me - just executing like a machine.  By the time HS rolled around, the kid was on the team and started, but was barely noticeable.  I think he coulda been better in a different situation.

These are the types of overuse injuries that seem to be seen more often now.  Nope, don't have data to prove it.  But to me it seems clear what happened in this...that didn't have to happen.

Let your kids....be kids!!

TPM posted:

You didn't say that, you didn't present all of the evidence counselor!

Fair enough. But, yeah I'm worried about injury. I'll be worried no matter what I do.

CACO3GIRL, please share with your 2020 PM group!  Root's experience is so much a part of what many of us "ancients" have been trying to warn the next several recruiting classes about... 

Root has a very good player who is getting attention.  Below, he outlines some of his scheduling plans over what was/is likely the two key years of recruiting for his son....  

From Root...

"I'll even admit I made the same mistake with my son this past off season. I had shut him down in October with the plan not to start him up until mid-late December. However, there was a local camp (actually a thinly disguised showcase during the dead period) where about 20 D1 schools were attending. Three or four schools told my son they'd like to see him there and we geared up in late November for this. In hindsight, there was interest, but no more or less than he would have gotten from them without showing up to this thing. he did get interest from a few schools that came from this, but for the schools he was already offered by or interested in, they didn't see anything they hadn't already seen. I won't make the same mistake again. There has been no harm done, but..."

..and in another post...

"I'll even admit that TPM told me not to do it. The truth is, I can see how some get caught up in the need to be at everything. In that instance, he wasn't throwing any harder than he was in July when they last saw him. It screwed around with his off-season schedule. Like I said, I got caught up with it and I consider myself fairly well informed. This summer, he has been bombarded by requests and we've tried to narrow it down and not feel pressured. So, other than his summer team's tourney schedule there's PG Junior nationals, Area Code Tryouts (and Area Code Games if lucky enough). that's pretty much it. Jupiter being a big maybe. Nov, Dec, and Jan off-season. If the schools that are interested can't see him in those and a couple of PG tourneys, then we'll live with it."

Root is an intelligent guy with a background in the game, a level head and a solid plan for his son.  He scheduled the right events and proper rest time.  He describes what happens to almost every decent player/parent going through the process.  Even with smart, careful planning, there is always another event that seems like something the player should attend or someone is asking if he will be there or someone who wants to see him play in person.  So, a schedule that starts in Dec/Jan prepping for HS, and is scheduled to end in September or October is easily stretched even further due to that one key event in the middle of the break or "just two weeks further" than planned shut down. It's VERY EASY to get caught up in it.

And, for the majority who have players who aren't getting the desired attention, that pressure to attend becomes even greater.  "We thought/hoped we'd have found a school by now".  "He doesn't have an offer that he likes and now we're running out of time".   Another point - don't compound the issue in the years prior (7th - 10th grade) by allowing the player to attend everything under the sun for most of the year.  If he has the talent and really wants it, you'll want to save some of that fortitude (and health) for when it becomes more necessary.  I'm a big proponent of summer/travel ball and showcases.  But it really needs to be managed with conviction to protect the player.  Most of us, like Root and I, failed a test or three the first time through.  Most of us don't have a second time through.  

Excellent ! Make a plan! Keep it simple until the time comes when you need to do more than he should do but you know you have to.

Don't let anyone tell you that you HAVE to do this or do that. Stay true to your plan you have made with your son.

Don't forget about school!!!!

TPM posted:

I guess I am not so stupid after all.

I think you are helping us bring up the point some of us are making. One does not need to do all this stuff. It becomes overwhelming. It can become too much for the pitcher. Hitters can showcase every weekend, they only get better with more at bats. Pitchers are using up the bullets, I know some don't believe that, I do. Stay as healthy as you can for as long as you can.

As far as CaCo last post, I agree. I am going to say that more than likely our southeast location turns out a lot of great players, but many injuries as well. Was it happening when my son was in HS, yes but to a much lessor degree than you hear about today. I don't know of any HS player son played with in his graduatino class who wanted to go to college who didn't make it because of injury.  That year there were lots of 90+ pitchers from here. Some were drafted and still playing mlb. All have had TJS or labrum issues. But guess what, they made it. 

That's the whole point isn't it?  And telling us you take your son to the chiropractor before he pitches even proves to me that in your mind you fear injury.  

If you were doing all the right things why would you?

I would like to start a poll about to get a consensus.  

lionbaseball posted:

TPM posted:

I guess I am not so stupid after all.

I think you are helping us bring up the point some of us are making. One does not need to do all this stuff. It becomes overwhelming. It can become too much for the pitcher. Hitters can showcase every weekend, they only get better with more at bats. Pitchers are using up the bullets, I know some don't believe that, I do. Stay as healthy as you can for as long as you can.

As far as CaCo last post, I agree. I am going to say that more than likely our southeast location turns out a lot of great players, but many injuries as well. Was it happening when my son was in HS, yes but to a much lessor degree than you hear about today. I don't know of any HS player son played with in his graduatino class who wanted to go to college who didn't make it because of injury.  That year there were lots of 90+ pitchers from here. Some were drafted and still playing mlb. All have had TJS or labrum issues. But guess what, they made it. 

That's the whole point isn't it?  And telling us you take your son to the chiropractor before he pitches even proves to me that in your mind you fear injury.  

If you were doing all the right things why would you?

I would like to start a poll about to get a consensus.  

Why don't you do that..go ahead.

You are not funny, why don't you offer something of value to the discussion instead of baiting. 

roothog66 posted:

TPM posted:

You didn't say that, you didn't present all of the evidence counselor!

Fair enough. But, yeah I'm worried about injury. I'll be worried no matter what I do.

Unfortunetly, the more one knows the more one needs to be afraid!

cabbagedad posted:

CACO3GIRL, please share with your 2020 PM group!  Root's experience is so much a part of what many of us "ancients" have been trying to warn the next several recruiting classes about... 

Root has a very good player who is getting attention.  Below, he outlines some of his scheduling plans over what was/is likely the two key years of recruiting for his son....  

From Root...

"I'll even admit I made the same mistake with my son this past off season. I had shut him down in October with the plan not to start him up until mid-late December. However, there was a local camp (actually a thinly disguised showcase during the dead period) where about 20 D1 schools were attending. Three or four schools told my son they'd like to see him there and we geared up in late November for this. In hindsight, there was interest, but no more or less than he would have gotten from them without showing up to this thing. he did get interest from a few schools that came from this, but for the schools he was already offered by or interested in, they didn't see anything they hadn't already seen. I won't make the same mistake again. There has been no harm done, but..."

..and in another post...

"I'll even admit that TPM told me not to do it. The truth is, I can see how some get caught up in the need to be at everything. In that instance, he wasn't throwing any harder than he was in July when they last saw him. It screwed around with his off-season schedule. Like I said, I got caught up with it and I consider myself fairly well informed. This summer, he has been bombarded by requests and we've tried to narrow it down and not feel pressured. So, other than his summer team's tourney schedule there's PG Junior nationals, Area Code Tryouts (and Area Code Games if lucky enough). that's pretty much it. Jupiter being a big maybe. Nov, Dec, and Jan off-season. If the schools that are interested can't see him in those and a couple of PG tourneys, then we'll live with it."

 

Root is an intelligent guy with a background in the game, a level head and a solid plan for his son.  He scheduled the right events and proper rest time.  He describes what happens to almost every decent player/parent going through the process.  Even with smart, careful planning, there is always another event that seems like something the player should attend or someone is asking if he will be there or someone who wants to see him play in person.  So, a schedule that starts in Dec/Jan prepping for HS, and is scheduled to end in September or October is easily stretched even further due to that one key event in the middle of the break or "just two weeks further" than planned shut down. It's VERY EASY to get caught up in it.

And, for the majority who have players who aren't getting the desired attention, that pressure to attend becomes even greater.  "We thought/hoped we'd have found a school by now".  "He doesn't have an offer that he likes and now we're running out of time".   Another point - don't compound the issue in the years prior (7th - 10th grade) by allowing the player to attend everything under the sun for most of the year.  If he has the talent and really wants it, you'll want to save some of that fortitude (and health) for when it becomes more necessary.  I'm a big proponent of summer/travel ball and showcases.  But it really needs to be managed with conviction to protect the player.  Most of us, like Root and I, failed a test or three the first time through.  Most of us don't have a second time through.  

 

Thank you Cabbage Dad, we have been discussing this issue as well lately.  Several of our kids have been invited to this event and that event even in 8th grade.  Anyway, I have cut and pasted this into the 2020PM.

Another thought.  Many players in past generations blew out their arms and just stopped pitching or playing without ever getting medical treament.  Or nursed it to get through the season even though their arm was hanging.  They could do that in the past simply because there was a very specific season.  You played HS and Legion.  Whatever the timeline was you knew in X weeks that you would be done throwing for 6+ months.  Todays baseball does not offer that luxury.  

TPM posted:

roothog66 posted:

TPM posted:

You didn't say that, you didn't present all of the evidence counselor!

Fair enough. But, yeah I'm worried about injury. I'll be worried no matter what I do.

Unfortunetly, the more one knows the more one needs to be afraid!

This!!!

Just for contrast with the old days. I happened to hear a nice discussion on the radio the other day about the July 3, 1963 game between the Brewers and Giants at Candlestick Park.  It's known as the greatest pitcher's duel in history.  The game went 16 innings and ended when Willie Mays broke a scoreless tie with a walkoff home run.  25-year-old Juan Marichal and 42-year-old Warren Spahn both pitched complete games, with Spahn throwing 201 pitches, and Marichal 227.

More here:  http://www.mercurynews.com/ci_...uel-was-50-years-ago