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In essence, 9 guys per class or 6.8 per class getting money.  When you look at it, you look at who is also being recruited in that class for what positions.  I think it is vital to know where you fit.  When my son was deciding on Tennessee, we looked at school, coaches, competition that will be in program (those in years before him) and those in his class.  There are four other LHP for sure in his recruiting class and 8 others that will be there when he gets there unless they add juco or some leave.  Will you be able to play or is the water to full was a major question.  Some P5 schools showed interest that were too full already with LHP that it would be a battle just to compete for playing time much less starting.  Again, what are you looking for?  You will never fully know until you are there and get a feel for it. 

I say recruiting is like dating.  YOu have to trust the other person.  Once you find the one you like then commit.  Until then.  Keep going out until you find the right one.  Just know that until you say I do (NLI) the other person can break your heart by breaking up with you.  And divorce is always an option for some.  Even if it is not your fault.  The Bible says God hates divorce.  I say because of what it does to the people He loves.  It is the same in recruiting.  When a school lets a player go it hurts everyone or when a player transfers, it hurts everyone.

 

Last edited by PitchingFan
justbaseball posted:


3. There is never a shortage of players willing to commit and sign with programs with higher reputations for doing this.  Everyone assumes it won't be them.  Sometimes it is...  True, it may discourage your son or mine, but the supply of good-enough players is greater than the slots on college teams.  Many nationally ranked programs "over-recruit."  It hasn't hurt them in the big picture.

THIS!

I never understood the problem with committing early. I completely understand why many are opposed to it, but I don't know why the NCAA and coaches need to combat it. 

Sure, plenty of kids don't end up at the school they committed to, but how much of that has to do with players and parents not doing their research? There is a school that commits 15-19 kids every single year and only have 1 to 3 players drafted from their program each season. If your son is the 15th player to commit to this class, as a parent how do you not step in?  They already offered 14 other players before you. It isn't going to work. 

We know a player who committed to a mid major over the likes of plenty of ACC and Big 12 schools. Why? They already had 12 kids committed and more offers out. Even if he progresses as expected, is the money going to be there, is the roster space going to be there, etc? This is a family that did their research and about 40% the recruiting class at the Big 12 school never set foot on campus. 

I don't have a problem with kids committing early if it makes sense. If you are a stud freshman/soph, you will most likely be a stud junior who is more mature and ready to commit. If you didn't pan out/progress as expected, it was never meant to be in the first place. I think fall of junior year is the time to really start looking into schools and committing if the offer is there. Frosh/Sophs can wait. 

Chico Escuela posted:

One other thought: If I were a D1 coach, I'd hire a couple of film school students for this summer to make an extensive interactive video tour of my athletic facilities, maybe add a couple of interviews with players and coaches.  Then I'd post the finished product to my program's web site.

One program has put together an infographic which is similar to your concept, except no video. 

Chico Escuela posted:
GaryMe posted
I don't have first hand knowledge of this, but a fair number of kids "commit" knowing they are going to be walk-ons without the benefit of a scholarship (and the attactched NLI). I would wager a guess that up to 20% of announced commitments do not include athletic aid, just my guess. If 27 players on the D1 roster are on scholarship (that's the maximum amount and not a mandated number) and rosters are filled at 35 players across the board, then around 22% of those guys on the roster either committed knowing they weren't going to get athletic aid or lost their scholarships along the way and decided "whatever, I just want to play at XXX."

If you are right, then do the walk-ons get any benefit with admissions (or would that vary by school)?  If my "commitment" to Arkansas means the coach will let show up at fall practices and try to make the team, do I have any assurance I will even be admitted?  And if not, then committing in some cases just means "if you get in, then you can come to try outs"?  Admission at state flagship universities isn't a given, even for in-state applicants.  

Sometimes admission is tougher at state schools for in-state kids...schools like those out of state tuition dollars.

GaryMe posted:
Chico Escuela posted:
GaryMe posted
I don't have first hand knowledge of this, but a fair number of kids "commit" knowing they are going to be walk-ons without the benefit of a scholarship (and the attactched NLI). I would wager a guess that up to 20% of announced commitments do not include athletic aid, just my guess. If 27 players on the D1 roster are on scholarship (that's the maximum amount and not a mandated number) and rosters are filled at 35 players across the board, then around 22% of those guys on the roster either committed knowing they weren't going to get athletic aid or lost their scholarships along the way and decided "whatever, I just want to play at XXX."

If you are right, then do the walk-ons get any benefit with admissions (or would that vary by school)?  If my "commitment" to Arkansas means the coach will let show up at fall practices and try to make the team, do I have any assurance I will even be admitted?  And if not, then committing in some cases just means "if you get in, then you can come to try outs"?  Admission at state flagship universities isn't a given, even for in-state applicants.  

Sometimes admission is tougher at state schools for in-state kids...schools like those out of state tuition dollars.

I find that surprising as those schools are generously supported by state funds. I would imagine a lot of angry constituents demanding their state reps to vote down or cut support to these high ed institutes as their precious child is being unfairly slighted.

2019Dad posted:
Qhead posted:

Assuming 22 players verbally committed is correct, how did the Arkansas coach pare that down by the NLI signing date?  He had to go back to some of those players and say sorry I changed my mind, we can't give you an NLI?  Wouldn't word start to spread about a particular program over-committing, which would discourage future potential recruits from verbally "committing" to them?  Not picking on Ark - just using them as an example.  I don't understand how a program can get away with this without damaging their reputation?

http://www.arkansasrazorbacks....al-of-arms-for-2019/

20 signed NLIs. One of those was drafted and signed.

I dont believe that the use of  the word "Signees" is actually how many kids signed NLI, but on kids committing to come to school and have a roster spot in the fall to try and make team.  The article lists 12 pitchers alone in the class.  There are also an existing 17 or so non-senior pitchers on the current roster.  Only 3 seniors total are listed on current roster and there are 17 current freshmen listed.  The numbers just dont work out.  There will have to be a decent amount of turnover from current roster and I think a fairly high percentage of those "signees" are not going to show up to campus in the fall IMHO... Parents should really look at how the numbers breakdown and discuss with your son so that everyone has a real feel for committing early and what the odds of making the team are

FriarFred posted:
2019Dad posted:
Qhead posted:

Assuming 22 players verbally committed is correct, how did the Arkansas coach pare that down by the NLI signing date?  He had to go back to some of those players and say sorry I changed my mind, we can't give you an NLI?  Wouldn't word start to spread about a particular program over-committing, which would discourage future potential recruits from verbally "committing" to them?  Not picking on Ark - just using them as an example.  I don't understand how a program can get away with this without damaging their reputation?

http://www.arkansasrazorbacks....al-of-arms-for-2019/

20 signed NLIs. One of those was drafted and signed.

I dont believe that the use of  the word "Signees" is actually how many kids signed NLI, but on kids committing to come to school and have a roster spot in the fall to try and make team.  The article lists 12 pitchers alone in the class.  There are also an existing 17 or so non-senior pitchers on the current roster.  Only 3 seniors total are listed on current roster and there are 17 current freshmen listed.  The numbers just dont work out.  There will have to be a decent amount of turnover from current roster and I think a fairly high percentage of those "signees" are not going to show up to campus in the fall IMHO... Parents should really look at how the numbers breakdown and discuss with your son so that everyone has a real feel for committing early and what the odds of making the team are

There were also five or six juniors who signed after the draft and several players will transfer out because of a lack of playing time and there will be a handful of injuries and players who will red shirt. The numbers always seem to work out. 

keewart posted:

^^^To add,

There are only  11.7 scholarships for baseball, IF the school is fully funded.

The minimum scholarship:  25%

Therefore......

Maximum on athletic scholarship: 27

Maximum on roster: 35.

So, if you hear of the school giving 30%, 50% 75% scholarships....the total number players on athletic scholarships  MAY NOT BE  27.   Mathematically, it can be a nightmare for the coaches.   Coaches love players that get academic money.  There are many players playing for free, and glad to do so.

 

I agree, coaches like players who qualify for academics, as well as need based grants. 

FYI, coaches use programs so they know at anytime how much they have to spend, who gets what, so it really isn't a nightmare.

FriarFred posted:
2019Dad posted:
Qhead posted:

Assuming 22 players verbally committed is correct, how did the Arkansas coach pare that down by the NLI signing date?  He had to go back to some of those players and say sorry I changed my mind, we can't give you an NLI?  Wouldn't word start to spread about a particular program over-committing, which would discourage future potential recruits from verbally "committing" to them?  Not picking on Ark - just using them as an example.  I don't understand how a program can get away with this without damaging their reputation?

http://www.arkansasrazorbacks....al-of-arms-for-2019/

20 signed NLIs. One of those was drafted and signed.

I dont believe that the use of  the word "Signees" is actually how many kids signed NLI, but on kids committing to come to school and have a roster spot in the fall to try and make team.  The article lists 12 pitchers alone in the class.  There are also an existing 17 or so non-senior pitchers on the current roster.  Only 3 seniors total are listed on current roster and there are 17 current freshmen listed.  The numbers just dont work out.  There will have to be a decent amount of turnover from current roster and I think a fairly high percentage of those "signees" are not going to show up to campus in the fall IMHO... Parents should really look at how the numbers breakdown and discuss with your son so that everyone has a real feel for committing early and what the odds of making the team are

Well, the first sentence of the article says: "The Razorback baseball program and head coach Dave Van Horn announced the signing of 20 student-athletes to National Letters of Intent for the 2019 season this week." I took that to mean that 20 signed NLIs.

MidAtlanticDad posted:
Chico Escuela posted:

One other thought: If I were a D1 coach, I'd hire a couple of film school students for this summer to make an extensive interactive video tour of my athletic facilities, maybe add a couple of interviews with players and coaches.  Then I'd post the finished product to my program's web site.

You mean like this?  

https://youtu.be/uwYzZrBbxyk

OMG!  Can tell I'm a D3 guy.  I was thinking more along the lines of this:

http://athletics.uchicago.edu/...orts/bsb/video/index

Go44dad posted:

Has anybody updated my chart?

Haven't updated it, but encouraged my son to use the same info from PG when he was doing his research.

 

I would encourage any parent to look at those numbers and any other data that they can get.  For my son's recruitment we kept a similar chart and also kept track of the active online rosters at schools where he had interest.  We compared them to the list of PG commits from corresponding years, it was enlightening at times.

 

 

roothog66 posted:

There were also five or six juniors who signed after the draft and several players will transfer out because of a lack of playing time and there will be a handful of injuries and players who will red shirt. The numbers always seem to work out. 

Red shirt players are included in the 35 man roster.  

 

 

TPM posted:
GaryMe posted:

Sometimes admission is tougher at state schools for in-state kids...schools like those out of state tuition dollars.

This is not correct.  Can you show supporting information on your statement?

TPM - This has been a problem and criticism of some of the Virginia schools as state/federal funding has gone down.   Universities turned to research $$, athletics $$, and out of state students $$ for new revenue streams to offset the funding problem.  My understanding is there was legistlation and admission policy changes to accept a prescriptive number (minimum) of in-state students...as they should.   We are paying taxes for that purpose.  This happened at three state schools that I know of William & Mary, UVA and Virginia Tech.  I don't know about other states (I suspect there are more), but it is/was most definitely an issue in Virginia.

fenwaysouth posted:
TPM posted:
GaryMe posted:

Sometimes admission is tougher at state schools for in-state kids...schools like those out of state tuition dollars.

This is not correct.  Can you show supporting information on your statement?

TPM - This has been a problem and criticism of some of the Virginia schools as state/federal funding has gone down.   Universities turned to research $$, athletics $$, and out of state students $$ for new revenue streams to offset the funding problem.  My understanding is there was legistlation and admission policy changes to accept a prescriptive number (minimum) of in-state students...as they should.   We are paying taxes for that purpose.  This happened at three state schools that I know of William & Mary, UVA and Virginia Tech.  I don't know about other states (I suspect there are more), but it is/was most definitely an issue in Virginia.

Sorry I meant for athletes. Here in FL, especially for non revenue sports like baseball, they want in state students.

 

2019Dad posted:
FriarFred posted:
2019Dad posted:
Qhead posted:

Assuming 22 players verbally committed is correct, how did the Arkansas coach pare that down by the NLI signing date?  He had to go back to some of those players and say sorry I changed my mind, we can't give you an NLI?  Wouldn't word start to spread about a particular program over-committing, which would discourage future potential recruits from verbally "committing" to them?  Not picking on Ark - just using them as an example.  I don't understand how a program can get away with this without damaging their reputation?

http://www.arkansasrazorbacks....al-of-arms-for-2019/

20 signed NLIs. One of those was drafted and signed.

I dont believe that the use of  the word "Signees" is actually how many kids signed NLI, but on kids committing to come to school and have a roster spot in the fall to try and make team.  The article lists 12 pitchers alone in the class.  There are also an existing 17 or so non-senior pitchers on the current roster.  Only 3 seniors total are listed on current roster and there are 17 current freshmen listed.  The numbers just dont work out.  There will have to be a decent amount of turnover from current roster and I think a fairly high percentage of those "signees" are not going to show up to campus in the fall IMHO... Parents should really look at how the numbers breakdown and discuss with your son so that everyone has a real feel for committing early and what the odds of making the team are

Well, the first sentence of the article says: "The Razorback baseball program and head coach Dave Van Horn announced the signing of 20 student-athletes to National Letters of Intent for the 2019 season this week." I took that to mean that 20 signed NLIs.

That could be but if 20 actually signed a NLI (see below), that would mean at a minimum he used 5 scholarships out of his 11.7 for the Freshman class (25% scholly minimum x 20 kids) which is possible, just seems unlikely with all the other talent on that team that 43% of available $ would go to one class and that if he had 20 kids on scholarship in Freshman class that only leaves room for 7 more (27 max players on scholly).   Disclosure:  Just a dad trying to figure out how those kind of numbers work when you see these size of signing class and I could be 100% wrong in my interpretation.  Of course, several kids will most likely never step foot on campus and go JUCO.  Again, as GoDad pointed out earlier, this large of a class would seem to be a potential red flag on committing to that particular school. 

 Here is definition from NLI FAQ site:  

 

When I sign an NLI what do I agree to do?

When you sign an NLI, you agree to attend the institution listed on the NLI for one academic year in exchange for that institution awarding athletics financial aid for one academic year.

Here is GA with the HOPE scholarships for in state kids with 3.0 GPAs, they get tuition paid for if they can maintain the GPA and class load. That helps baseball. Clemson had ACM and that helps OOS student athletes. Regarding the 20 NLIs at Arkansas, that feels like what Perno used to do at UGA and ended up cutting kids after the fall. Now with the P5 scholarship being 4 years, not sure that would happen again. Perno won but slowly destroyed the program afterwards. I have no idea how it will impact Arkansas.

Last edited by Shoveit4Ks
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