Recruiting Assessment - Odds of This Player & Where

@adbono posted:

Francis, nobody on this board (or anyone else that hasn’t seen your son play in person more than once) can accurately predict your son’s future for you.  If college coaches are talking to him that should be your guide. The marketplace dictates where players fit, not the other way around. There isn’t really anything that anyone can do to accelerate the process. At some point your son will have impressed a school enough to generate an offer - or he won’t. It sounds like he probably will but there is very little you can to to determine who that is - other than doing what you can to help your son improve and getting him to venues that will get him exposed to the right schools. If your son knows what he wants to do for a living (and the degree he needs to do that) I would focus on D3, D2 & NAIA schools that offer the right major. Then I would get him to showcases and camps where those schools attend - whenever that’s again possible. Start with the end (degree) and work backwards. Use this down time to create a plan based on an academic goal. If your son ends up being a better player than expected that’s a good problem to have. 

Thanks. He's been talking to coaches. Basically, it's between him and them - and I'm out of it until I need to be because they want him to come in or something, or fill out an early financial aid form, etc.

On the D1 side, it's been 3 schools. One said in January that he was in their rotation of prospects for his position for 22s. But then a few months later a local committed there. So, that's probably out. Another said that they have been tracking him for months and he was their #1 2022 C. But, their school doesn't offer his major - so, that died. The other one is a local D1 and still in play. He talks to their recruiting coach frequently - it's an ongoing conversation. They talk almost once a week for a while now.

There is another D2 who is very interested and wants him to come in for a visit in the fall as soon as allowed per the pandemic.

That is what I know based on what he's sharing. He wants to keep things close to his chest until I need to be involved since, per him, "I know you're going to get too excited about anything I tell you."

That's fine. I've offered to help and made it clear to him "It's your choice. But, remember, if you shut me out, then you can't say 'Why didn't you help me?' when it doesn't work out the way you wanted."

Sometimes there is no understanding the workings of the mind of a teenager 

@adbono posted:

I also coached my kids, similar to RJM. I had no intention of ever coaching. But I got involved early on as I realized quickly that the guys trying to coach my kids had no idea what they were doing. 

Same thing. I started coaching in kiddie ball sports. At 13u I put together a coaching team of four former college (two pro) players. Their kids were players. I took the kids through 16u and handed them off to programs with college contacts.

@Francis7 posted:

Thanks. He's been talking to coaches. Basically, it's between him and them - and I'm out of it until I need to be because they want him to come in or something, or fill out an early financial aid form, etc.

On the D1 side, it's been 3 schools. One said in January that he was in their rotation of prospects for his position for 22s. But then a few months later a local committed there. So, that's probably out. Another said that they have been tracking him for months and he was their #1 2022 C. But, their school doesn't offer his major - so, that died. The other one is a local D1 and still in play. He talks to their recruiting coach frequently - it's an ongoing conversation. They talk almost once a week for a while now.

There is another D2 who is very interested and wants him to come in for a visit in the fall as soon as allowed per the pandemic.

That is what I know based on what he's sharing. He wants to keep things close to his chest until I need to be involved since, per him, "I know you're going to get too excited about anything I tell you."

That's fine. I've offered to help and made it clear to him "It's your choice. But, remember, if you shut me out, then you can't say 'Why didn't you help me?' when it doesn't work out the way you wanted."

I was involved every step of the way with my kids. I didn’t get involved in the conversations. But I coached my kids on what to say and what not to say. I never wrote any emails. But I told them what should be in them.

Coaches are professional recruiters. Kids aren’t professional recruits. Kids are out experienced and outgunned. They need help. If nothing else they need the interpretation and common sense an adult brings to the process. I would have never let my kids go it alone against an adult. 

@Francis7 posted:

Another said that they have been tracking him for months and he was their #1 2022 C. But, their school doesn't offer his major - so, that died. The other one is a local D1 and still in play. 

What major? I am now curious.  I was under the impression you were looking mid major D1 and best baseball opportunity but your son has already zero'd in on a major which limits the opportunity pool and if he does end up D3 can really restrict it... 

@adbono posted:

Sometimes there is no understanding the workings of the mind of a teenager 

Sometimes?

@RJM posted:

I was involved every step of the way with my kids. I didn’t get involved in the conversations. But I coached my kids on what to say and what not to say. I never wrote any emails. But I told them what should be in them.

Coaches are professional recruiters. Kids aren’t professional recruits. Kids are out experienced and outgunned. They need help. If nothing else they need the interpretation and common sense an adult brings to the process. I would have never let my kids go it alone against an adult. 

I've heard some of his conversations from a distance. (It's a small house.) And he's handling them well. He also runs everything by his trusted stable of former and current coaches as well as with some current D1 players that he knows well from training with them. His network is actually very impressive that way. There's probably 10 coaches of travel teams and programs that he's tight with  - and they have all been very generous with their time and counsel.

Then he is getting plenty of guidance and advice from peers and mentors...just make sure the car gas tank is full for all the visits

Sounds like your son and his support group, including you, have the situation as well in hand as could be expected and that everything is moving along nicely.  The only problem, and the reason for the post, is that the suspense is killing you.

That is understandable. Hang in there!

@JCG posted:

Sounds like your son and his support group, including you, have the situation as well in hand as could be expected and that everything is moving along nicely.  The only problem, and the reason for the post, is that the suspense is killing you.

That is understandable. Hang in there!

LOL. I just don't want him to miss an opportunity for some reason and/or waste his time shooting for something that's not reasonable. In addition, the new landscape is a factor along with the uncertainty on what it means on the process.

No one waste time if they are learning from daily experiences.

you did not answer my questions. "Can your son read the bat"?

"can he read the runners feet".?

Bob

@Francis7 posted:

LOL. I just don't want him to miss an opportunity for some reason and/or waste his time shooting for something that's not reasonable. In addition, the new landscape is a factor along with the uncertainty on what it means on the process.

Ultimately the player is responsible for the end result. But if he’s getting good direction from the travel team you can stop asking where he should be directing his efforts. If you look back at these kinds of posts the advice is “What are baseball people telling him?”

From now until the offers come in it’s “Tums Time” for dad. Many of us have been through it. We all survived. If a kid wants it badly enough he makes it happen.

@Consultant posted:

No one waste time if they are learning from daily experiences.

you did not answer my questions. "Can your son read the bat"?

"can he read the runners feet".?

Bob

Not sure I understand the question? So, hard to say if he can.

@Gunner Mack Jr. posted:

What major? I am now curious.  I was under the impression you were looking mid major D1 and best baseball opportunity but your son has already zero'd in on a major which limits the opportunity pool and if he does end up D3 can really restrict it... 

He better be zeroing in on a major - as should your son and everyone else’s too. The days of getting a general degree and figuring out what you want to do later are gone - unless grad school is in the picture. The odds of playing pro ball have always been long but with the elimination of lower level minor league teams the odds just got way worse. You are way better off getting a specific degree that qualifies you for the type of job you want. Have a plan! 

Somewhat related question:

There is an out of state D1 that I think would be a perfect fit for my son. And, they seem to roster out of state kids from our state. It's the type of program and school size that checks all the boxes for my son. And, he trains with a current player there- who has reportedly told the coach about my son.

I have told my son that he should do one of their camps and he's dismissed me saying "I know already that they are not interested in me."

That's fine. But, the recruiting coach for this college following my son on Twitter and he "likes" every one of my son's tweets with a clip or something.

Is the coach just being social media polite or is my son wrong about them being interested in them?

@Francis7 posted:

Somewhat related question:

There is an out of state D1 that I think would be a perfect fit for my son. And, they seem to roster out of state kids from our state. It's the type of program and school size that checks all the boxes for my son. And, he trains with a current player there- who has reportedly told the coach about my son.

I have told my son that he should do one of their camps and he's dismissed me saying "I know already that they are not interested in me."

That's fine. But, the recruiting coach for this college following my son on Twitter and he "likes" every one of my son's tweets with a clip or something.

Is the coach just being social media polite or is my son wrong about them being interested in them?

Teenagers are wrong about a lot of things. I wouldn’t assign much value to the social media stuff but I would send him to their camp and make sure the coach knows he will be there. What do you have to lose? 

yeah, you should play the parent card with your kid on that school. It's a little time and $$, but no regrets

Francis;

your son is a catcher?   How many "tools" in his tool box?

what does his eyes see when he is catching?

Is the "on deck" hitter swinging his practice swings "up or down"?

Is the runners right foot "pointing" to second base?

College coaches desire leadership skills from their catchers.

Bob

He sees things that I don't see. But, that's become apparent by accident. What he sees on the field and what he does with it, you would have to ask him and his coach. I can say that he's locked in, knows the game and is thinking ahead. He's not a tourist out there.

@Francis7 posted:

Somewhat related question:

There is an out of state D1 that I think would be a perfect fit for my son. And, they seem to roster out of state kids from our state. It's the type of program and school size that checks all the boxes for my son. And, he trains with a current player there- who has reportedly told the coach about my son.

I have told my son that he should do one of their camps and he's dismissed me saying "I know already that they are not interested in me."

That's fine. But, the recruiting coach for this college following my son on Twitter and he "likes" every one of my son's tweets with a clip or something.

Is the coach just being social media polite or is my son wrong about them being interested in them?

Being liked on social media isn’t recruiting. Even being seen isn’t recruiting. Recruiting is when they make an offer. What if the coach decides without seeing your son he’s going to pursue another player first? If the kid is genuinely interested get in front of the coach. 

@Francis7 posted:

He sees things that I don't see. But, that's become apparent by accident. What he sees on the field and what he does with it, you would have to ask him and his coach. I can say that he's locked in, knows the game and is thinking ahead. He's not a tourist out there.

There are a lot of locked in players who don’t see the little things that make a difference. They only see the obvious.

@Francis7 posted:

Danj - I agree that 2021, 2022 and 2023 are going to be different than the recruiting experience in the past. Between the NCAA giving kids another year, baseball cutting the draft and the recruiting scene shifting to video, streaming and referrals, kids better be ready to move sooner and quicker than in the past and be open to all options.

Agree with a good deal of this.  Right now, if you were not at the top of a schools' recruiting board by last year, getting recruited for D1 is going to be nearly impossible.  Teams are either not recruiting at all due to returning upperclassmen, or cost concerns.  Many RC's were furloughed, or can't see kids in person.  So it's just not worth it for them to recruit players off of video or livestream when they don't really have to or simply don't have the funds to do so.  A tough situation will be even tougher should @DanJ 's prediction for the spring come to fruition. 

The ripple effect here is that many potential D1 players are now opting to go the D3 route.  Even some D3's have returning seniors and limited recruit classes (I'll use Tufts as one name example I am aware of).  So D1 now impossible and D3 more stringent than ever.  It's like every division just increased a notch in terms of degree of difficulty.  

In other words, if a player was on the fence about D3 v D1, I'd advise hopping off. The decision you believe to be there...may very well not be.  Consider D3 a valuable and fortunate opportunity to play, now at an even higher level given talent influx.  

Wech is spot on. This is exactly what I am seeing. I believe the vast majority of schools are taking the path of least resistance and “skipping over”  the ‘21 class.Im seeing it at all levels but a lot at the D1 level. I hope the NCAA and the dopey athlete council are proud of themselves and what they created. It’s basically a giant shit show. It’s what happens when you make an “emotional” decision too quick without using common sense.

This is also an almost exact description of where my ‘21 is. It’s maddening and he’s really having to come down and consider places we never ever thought he would. He’s , at this point, just as likely to not play at all in college as play. It’s a sad statement on the situation in general and not anything I would have ever guessed would be the situation he was in 8-10 months ago. You can only sink so far before you just say uncle and move on from baseball. There are many very talented players in his class that probably won’t find homes, and the common thing we keep hearing is “logjam” and “we don’t have any room”.

Yes, the NCAA made an idiotic ruling - and it has had a negative impact on far more players (and families) than it has helped. Add to the mix that MLB draft has been permanently contracted. Now add the fact that the virus is not disappearing and political ramifications of that have ramped up. The combination of those ingredients is a recipe for disaster for all college sports - but especially baseball. You can fight your battle however you want. Some will win but most wont. IMO now is the time to put life ahead of baseball. Make a decision that’s best for your kid’s education (and future employment) and let the baseball chips fall where they may. It may not be easy (my son had to do it) but given the circumstances it’s the prudent thing to do. 

It's a shame players lost half a D1 season. It's worse for seniors having their last shot at glory. But under normal circumstances plenty of athletes find out they won't be playing their senior year sitting in a doctor's office. That's life. The NCAA should have said, "Sorry. Sometimes life sucks. You have your degree. Move on."

@RJM posted:

It's a shame players lost half a D1 season. It's worse for seniors having their last shot at glory. But under normal circumstances plenty of athletes find out they won't be playing their senior year sitting in a doctor's office. That's life. The NCAA should have said, "Sorry. Sometimes life sucks. You have your degree. Move on."

I don't disagree with this.  The NCAA just kicked the can down the road and inadvertently gave the "life sucks, move on" to the 2021 class.  My RHP son (90 mph FB, 4.5 GPA, 33 ACT) is sitting here waiting for coaches to 'figure it out' with the guys who might be coming back...  Really?  Are they obligated to give those guys another year?  

I just told him to apply to the schools he knows he wants to graduate from and stick to that plan.  Whatever shakes from the baseball tree is just gravy.

@CaliDad posted:

I don't disagree with this.  The NCAA just kicked the can down the road and inadvertently gave the "life sucks, move on" to the 2021 class.  My RHP son (90 mph FB, 4.5 GPA, 33 ACT) is sitting here waiting for coaches to 'figure it out' with the guys who might be coming back...  Really?  Are they obligated to give those guys another year?  

I just told him to apply to the schools he knows he wants to graduate from and stick to that plan.  Whatever shakes from the baseball tree is just gravy.

Send a PM to Cabbagedad and explain your situation. He is a retired very successful and well connected HS coach in Cali. He might have an idea or two. 

@CaliDad posted:

I don't disagree with this.  The NCAA just kicked the can down the road and inadvertently gave the "life sucks, move on" to the 2021 class.  My RHP son (90 mph FB, 4.5 GPA, 33 ACT) is sitting here waiting for coaches to 'figure it out' with the guys who might be coming back...  Really?  Are they obligated to give those guys another year?  

I just told him to apply to the schools he knows he wants to graduate from and stick to that plan.  Whatever shakes from the baseball tree is just gravy.

My son missed freshman year with an injury. After playing three seasons he found out he needed a second surgery more than a redshirt senior season. He could have applied for a medical redshirt season. His attitude was after five years he would have two degrees (BA/MBA). Why hang around at 23/24 with a bunch of nineteen year olds working towards a third degree that wasn’t needed? It was time to get on with life.