Research resources for College Pitching programs/coaches

does it have to be D1? maybe if he played D3 he could pitch and Play the OF if he prefers that.

Sounds very similar to my son, except more velocity. Also in HS my son was a high strike out pitcher. 

He went to a D3. But so many of his options, the PC, had either not been with the program long or clearly looking to move up.

Baseball was number one on his college search. Could he play at that school? Fortunately he had plenty of choices where that was a possibility. So baseball programs being equal, he was able to decide based on his major, school environment, etc. Quickly he decided he wanted a small liberal arts education. This narrowed his D1 options, and that was further limited, because none of the d1's were showing love. A big state U came in late and wanted him to walk on. They were too late to the game, he liked his other choices and he turned them down.

He was very fortunate that his head coach had been a PC at one of the best D3's in the country, and the current pitching coach, had a lot of experience. He had coaches at Duke, been a pitching instructor, in the Indians minor league system. He was very helpful to my son.

Why do I mention this? Because while baseball was number one, it was not the deciding factor. Here are all recruit a should ask themselves

1. What level can I truly play at. Many times the recruiting process tells you.

2. What do I want to major in? 

3. What type of school do I want to attend? Large? small? Liberal Arts? Engineering?

3 all the baseball intangibles. 

Too many go at it in the wrong order. It is OK for baseball to be a number one priority. If my son could not have played at his school, he would not have gone there. 

So answer the school questions first, being that he can play ball there. And that will give you the pool of schools. Then answer the pitching coach development etc...

My next comment is not meant to be cruel or belittling. I have not seen your son pitch. But pitches to contact in HS, many times transfers to getting hit hard in college. Like I said my son was a high strike out in HS, in college he became a pitch to contact. It was not that he did not want to strike out batters, but the hitters were that much better.

Good luck in your search.

That's tough being thousands of miles away. My best quick thought is look up the schools he would be interested in, then look up pitching coach and Google him. If he is on twitter or instagram (in all probability he will be since that is what kids are on now), then look who he follows. Lots of times, they follow someone who they respect their philosophy.  I know that is a VERY long way around.

Be aware that the Pitching coach and / or the head coach could easily change. My son is a red shirt sophomore in college and both left this year for another opportunity. He loved(s) both of these men. When he was being recruited, he asked (with my prompting) what the style, training, expectations, philosophy they were of each PC and HC he got recruited by. They all gladly told him. But this year he has a new HC who was a former assistant on the team and a brand new PC. He was lucky and really likes both of them as well. But truthfully you never know. 

Not easy to do but here is what I should have done. Review recruiting class, look at how many of the pitchers other than top guy actually developed. How many get cut, pitch very little and have more or less same stats for their career.  If just the top two guys seem to stick then coaching is suspect and not committed to kids.  Coaches always say the kids didn't work, didn't commit to program yada yada. This isn't always the case!

Dominik85 posted:

does it have to be D1? maybe if he played D3 he could pitch and Play the OF if he prefers that.

Thanks for the response. He is focused on his pitching but honestly I think the next 6 months will be telling.  His offense has always been productive but never a slugger which may also inform demand. He is a pretty simple young man and works hard.  He continues to say his only focus is to play at the most competitive level he is able.  Of course high MLB draft would be his preference but D1 or even JUCO to a path seems open to him.

We sat through an utterly depressing recruiting talk 2 years ago.  I came out depressed and he came out inspired to work harder...we shall see.

I like Bishop's comments about choosing the school first (assuming he can play baseball at that school) and then start digging in further to make the final decision.  I don't think you will get some summarized article on a PC's coaching style so you have to take an indirect approach and maybe tailor it for exactly what you are looking for.  Some folks look as players drafted, but that may not tell the whole story and may be an indicator of top nothch recruiting as opposed to development.  Conversely, if you find a smaller D1 (or their PC more accurately) that seems to have success in getting "average" high school kids drafted, then that would suggest development.  12PITCHES comment could be viewed as PC strategy - they may be good at development, but may only want to focus on a few and let others fall by the wayside.  Doesn't mean they are not good at development, simply that they prefer to focus on a few and work at keeping new kids coming in every year to replace those that transfer or maybe simply quit.  I think what you are researching is quite nuanced and takes lots of effort and creative searching.

BishopLeftiesDad posted:

Sounds very similar to my son, except more velocity. Also in HS my son was a high strike out pitcher. 

He went to a D3. But so many of his options, the PC, had either not been with the program long or clearly looking to move up.

Baseball was number one on his college search. Could he play at that school? Fortunately he had plenty of choices where that was a possibility. So baseball programs being equal, he was able to decide based on his major, school environment, etc. Quickly he decided he wanted a small liberal arts education. This narrowed his D1 options, and that was further limited, because none of the d1's were showing love. A big state U came in late and wanted him to walk on. They were too late to the game, he liked his other choices and he turned them down.

He was very fortunate that his head coach had been a PC at one of the best D3's in the country, and the current pitching coach, had a lot of experience. He had coaches at Duke, been a pitching instructor, in the Indians minor league system. He was very helpful to my son.

Why do I mention this? Because while baseball was number one, it was not the deciding factor. Here are all recruit a should ask themselves

1. What level can I truly play at. Many times the recruiting process tells you.

2. What do I want to major in? 

3. What type of school do I want to attend? Large? small? Liberal Arts? Engineering?

3 all the baseball intangibles. 

Too many go at it in the wrong order. It is OK for baseball to be a number one priority. If my son could not have played at his school, he would not have gone there. 

So answer the school questions first, being that he can play ball there. And that will give you the pool of schools. Then answer the pitching coach development etc...

My next comment is not meant to be cruel or belittling. I have not seen your son pitch. But pitches to contact in HS, many times transfers to getting hit hard in college. Like I said my son was a high strike out in HS, in college he became a pitch to contact. It was not that he did not want to strike out batters, but the hitters were that much better.

Good luck in your search.

 

 

Thank you so much for taking the time on your reply.  This makes a lot of sense and I appreciate the perspective.  

chefmike7777 posted:

That's tough being thousands of miles away. My best quick thought is look up the schools he would be interested in, then look up pitching coach and Google him. If he is on twitter or instagram (in all probability he will be since that is what kids are on now), then look who he follows. Lots of times, they follow someone who they respect their philosophy.  I know that is a VERY long way around.

Be aware that the Pitching coach and / or the head coach could easily change. My son is a red shirt sophomore in college and both left this year for another opportunity. He loved(s) both of these men. When he was being recruited, he asked (with my prompting) what the style, training, expectations, philosophy they were of each PC and HC he got recruited by. They all gladly told him. But this year he has a new HC who was a former assistant on the team and a brand new PC. He was lucky and really likes both of them as well. But truthfully you never know. 

Thank you for the perspective.  You know it just might not be the right question I am asking then.  I have seen the movement of coaches but don't think I put that in the overall perspective but that makes a ton of sense which goes back to keeping a good focus on the actual school and not just the baseball program.  That is such a tough one with a kid who seems to have a one track mind.

Thanks again!

12pitches posted:

Not easy to do but here is what I should have done. Review recruiting class, look at how many of the pitchers other than top guy actually developed. How many get cut, pitch very little and have more or less same stats for their career.  If just the top two guys seem to stick then coaching is suspect and not committed to kids.  Coaches always say the kids didn't work, didn't commit to program yada yada. This isn't always the case!

That is true to a point, IMO. I do think you should look at the whole class and see who is playing but look at classes above and below as well. You should, also, look at multiple years of a class.

I'll give you a  reference from my son's college. Reality is that 8-9 pitchers get any significant innings in a year (say more than 40 innings). Each year my son's team (this is his third year of college) had 15 pitchers on roster. In short terms that is the best 2-3 of each class getting innings. But Lots of times it is injuries or where they happen to fall on the depth chart. For some of those 8-9 it came right away, others in took a year or two to get on field.

The class 2 years above son (just graduated) had 3 pitchers that were developed and pitched often but 2 of those did not pitch much until junior year. There were, also, 2 that graduated that barely played. Not sure how many pitchers came in that class.

In class right above son, 2 pitchers pitched a lot - one was drafted last year and one will be back. There were / are 4 pitchers in that class. The one drafted was the top guy coming in, the other one playing was the 4th guy. The other 2 left (one injured, one was gone when son got there so don't know why).

In son's class there were 3 pitchers in it. One washed out sophomore year because he could never get healthy and left - This young man would have been considered the "ace" of this class. Son pitched a lot freshman year but hardly any last year (3 IP) because of injury, 3rd one pitched about 10 inning freshman year, then was hurt over summer and did not play at all last year. He will be a significant player either as a weekday starter or middle relief guy this year.

Last years freshmen had one get major innings (the ace) and one get solid inning (#2) , Both will be major contributors this year. There are 2 other pitchers in this class, one has a shot at some time this year IMO.

 The feeling is that the freshman pitchers this year will get very limited innings-  there are 5. 

Each year they have, also, brought in JC pitchers - 2 when he was a freshman, 2 last year and 1 this year.  Of those 5, one played 2 years and was drafted last year, one never played, and the 2 from last year will be big contributors this year. the one this year is most likely not in the top 8 at this moment. So sometimes it is the coaches not developing and sometimes it is the players not developing. My son has talked about guys that work hard but there are guys just better. He has, also, talked about guys that don't work hard once they got to college.

So in some regards you are right, the best pitchers get to pitch. Like I said, innings are limited and goes to those that perform. Sometimes that is about pure abilities and so top recruits get those innings not because others were developed but because there were simply better players. But injuries play a huge role in it as well.

Biggestfan2018,

So, I would look at this from the college or pitching coaches perspective.  What would they be looking for?  Sure your son projects to mid to high 80s with a potential upside to 90 by the time he gets to college...best case scenario.  Velocity is important but there are many other factors that come into play for potential college pitchers.  For example, I'd be looking at his control, secondary & tertiary pitches and movement.  These are the things that separate pitchers at each level in college baseball....and there are many levels.  So those are the things he can control as a pitcher.

College is different than high school.  In many cases you get to pick where you want to go.  BLD gave you a list of things to consider.  My son researched the heck out of the schools that were interested in him and offered him.  He is kind of a math geek so he was looking at a lot of numbers and figuring out where he thought he could crack the starting lineup and the type of environment that suited him.  He figured out artificial turf was the surface that best fit him because his best pitch was the change-up and cutter that resulted in ground balls or doubleplays when he was on his game.  Like most college pitchers he had velocity but used it to his advantage when he needed it either in on the hands to righty hitter (in cold northern weather) or out of the zone to a lefty....and it had movement.  These were environmental factors that helped and complemented his game.

Another thing my son and I looked at was the medical history of the rostered pitchers over the last 4 years.  Pitchers get hurt.  It is a fact of life, however pitchers tend to get hurt more than others.  So we paid particular attention to that aspect.  Son found one school that offered him to have an extremely poor record of protecting their pitchers arms.  He crossed them off the list for that reason and other reasons.  So, I would take a look at that as you dive into each program.  Read the bio of the players and determine how many took the season off because of injury.

As you begin to have conversations with college pitching coaches, ask about their strength and conditioning program.  These programs vary considerably, and it can be a huge determining factor in his college performance.  Strength and conditioning is important.  So is nutrition, and flexibility especially for pitchers.

There are so many types of colleges and so many types of baseball programs.  This website (through it's members feeback) can help educate you and determine on the "developmental" programs vs the "highest level you'll play and compete and get a good education" (your words).  However those input factors have to come from you.  You and your son have to figure out what is most important to you.  Once you figure that out the HSBBWeb board can be an unbelievable resource with practical knowledge about many college baseball programs.

Good luck!

biggestfan2018 posted:

Dominik85 posted:

does it have to be D1? maybe if he played D3 he could pitch and Play the OF if he prefers that.

Thanks for the response. He is focused on his pitching but honestly I think the next 6 months will be telling.  His offense has always been productive but never a slugger which may also inform demand. He is a pretty simple young man and works hard.  He continues to say his only focus is to play at the most competitive level he is able.  Of course high MLB draft would be his preference but D1 or even JUCO to a path seems open to him.

We sat through an utterly depressing recruiting talk 2 years ago.  I came out depressed and he came out inspired to work harder...we shall see.

 

 biggestfan,

Here are a couple of things you need to consider in your search.

It doesn't matter how you feel about your sons ability, he needs an independent evaluation to see what direction to take. I am not talking about a camp, but rather a scouting service that compares, rates and ranks your son with other 2018s across the country.  What division would be a good fit. Perfect Game would be a good example.

Don't forget about how important grades are in the equation.

Keep in mind that most programs in the east and Southeast recruit players from the East and Southeast.  The power 5 conferences all over the country look for the best players, and realistically, while 102 mph would get you drafted pretty high, college players don't throw that hard, possibly one day, but more than likely not in college.

Why not start his search within his home State?  Will he be playing this summer for a good travel team?

There is one thing your son has that others don't, he is a lefty.  So he needs to work on being the best lefty pitcher he can be, competition is fierce these days.

FWIW, there are only a few pitching coaches that actually are heads above the rest, and of course they are employed by the best programs.

You and your son need to sit down and discuss a plan of action, there is plenty of info here to help, and follow the recruiting guidelines.

TPM posted:

biggestfan2018 posted:

Dominik85 posted:

does it have to be D1? maybe if he played D3 he could pitch and Play the OF if he prefers that.

Thanks for the response. He is focused on his pitching but honestly I think the next 6 months will be telling.  His offense has always been productive but never a slugger which may also inform demand. He is a pretty simple young man and works hard.  He continues to say his only focus is to play at the most competitive level he is able.  Of course high MLB draft would be his preference but D1 or even JUCO to a path seems open to him.

We sat through an utterly depressing recruiting talk 2 years ago.  I came out depressed and he came out inspired to work harder...we shall see.

 

 biggestfan,

Here are a couple of things you need to consider in your search.

It doesn't matter how you feel about your sons ability, he needs an independent evaluation to see what direction to take. I am not talking about a camp, but rather a scouting service that compares, rates and ranks your son with other 2018s across the country.  What division would be a good fit. Perfect Game would be a good example.

Don't forget about how important grades are in the equation.

Keep in mind that most programs in the east and Southeast recruit players from the East and Southeast.  The power 5 conferences all over the country look for the best players, and realistically, while 102 mph would get you drafted pretty high, college players don't throw that hard, possibly one day, but more than likely not in college.

Why not start his search within his home State?  Will he be playing this summer for a good travel team?

There is one thing your son has that others don't, he is a lefty.  So he needs to work on being the best lefty pitcher he can be, competition is fierce these days.

FWIW, there are only a few pitching coaches that actually are heads above the rest, and of course they are employed by the best programs.

You and your son need to sit down and discuss a plan of action, there is plenty of info here to help, and follow the recruiting guidelines.

 

I have to say I am new to this board at least posting and I am so impressed with the level of detail and time taken in providing feedback. Thank you very much.

As a parent that will likely be paying for all or part of college my home state is where I'd like to see him but he has a pull to the east and southeast because his older sister lives in Virginia near DC and he had the opportunity to sit with a recent graduate of George Washington University that played all 4 years and take yoga instruction from his sister.  

Additionally he has traveled to FL a ton with his dad's family and really likes it there too...oh and how I raised a California born and raised Red Sox fan I'll never get.

He has played with and will continue to play with a very competitive summer program with travels to So California and Arizona yearly.  

It is just so much easier to work with local school and our coaches have the connections west coast too.  The east and southeast just seems very foreign...hence the research questions.  We know the coaches around here that won't take a second look at a kid who isn't 6'4"... and we know to cross them off but we also know the games being played talking to one kid to get to another on a roster that type of thing. Here we feel we know the layout and in the end my son wants to play at the  most competitive program he can.   His grades are fine and test scores will be too...from the reading I think he is just a stones throw below the Ivy so most other academics will be ok.

Thanks again for all the detail...I've gotten great perspective and really appreciate you taking the time.

biggestfan2018 posted:

Dominik85 posted:

does it have to be D1? maybe if he played D3 he could pitch and Play the OF if he prefers that.

Thanks for the response. He is focused on his pitching but honestly I think the next 6 months will be telling.  His offense has always been productive but never a slugger which may also inform demand. He is a pretty simple young man and works hard.  He continues to say his only focus is to play at the most competitive level he is able.  Of course high MLB draft would be his preference but D1 or even JUCO to a path seems open to him.

We sat through an utterly depressing recruiting talk 2 years ago.  I came out depressed and he came out inspired to work harder...we shall see.

 

If he wants to get drafted or Play at a good D1 he Needs more Velo. Does his Body have room for projection? how tall and big is he? if he is weak and lanky he can grow more than a guy who is short and strong.

if he has projection than maybe a Velo program like driveline could help him. but if his max potential is 85-86 he likely would be better off playing at a good D2 or D3 or maybe a weaker D1 program.

 

It is just so much easier to work with local school and our coaches have the connections west coast too.  The east and southeast just seems very foreign...hence the research questions.  We know the coaches around here that won't take a second look at a kid who isn't 6'4"... and we know to cross them off but we also know the games being played talking to one kid to get to another on a roster that type of thing. Here we feel we know the layout and in the end my son wants to play at the  most competitive program he can.   His grades are fine and test scores will be too...from the reading I think he is just a stones throw below the Ivy so most other academics will be ok.

Thanks again for all the detail...I've gotten great perspective and really appreciate you taking the time.

 

biggestfan2018,

Your son sounds similar to my son in many ways.  He is not tall (6'1"), was a contact pitcher who could carve up college hitters.  One of the things he learned very quickly is that unless you are throwing 95+ you won't be blowing it by college hitters....unless you set up pitches.  There are recruiting coaches at showcases and events that recognize sequencing, control, command and value it highly.  My son was an afterthought by a couple ACC and SEC schools.  While my son was capable of touching 90, these power conference starting pitchers were always throwing 90+ on fastballs, and relievers were 95+.  Big difference in our recruiting experience between ACC/SEC and Ivy, Patriot League, or other high academic schools in terms of what they were looking for and what mattered most to them,

One of the biggest challenges is where  you live.  There is tremendous baseball supply in California, and not enough demand to meet the supply.  If your son is a "stones throw" below high academic schools, then your son could have many options if he plays his cards right and understands how recruiting at those levels works.  I strongly encourage you to research high academic schools on your own as you continue to listen to the advice of your high school/travel coaches.  Essentially, this is what I did many years ago.  I discovered his travel coaches have their own ideas and network of college coaches that mostly did not fit my  son's thoughts about college and college baseball.  We learned we had leverage with high academic schools and an abundance of options once we figured out what we wanted and who was looking for it.  JMO.

Best of luck going forward!

Biggestfan --- a TON of great advice has already been given.  We too are from the Bay Area and with a 2017 LHP.  We just finished two years of outreach and effort to find a home for him in college.  Like your son, ours has academics that are just a tick below Ivy.  He too sits low 80s (this past summer) with his fastball and pitches to contact and has a great secondary and an ok third pitch.  Also we played in a super competitive travel program and for a good high school system/league.    What we found was that the process  will tell you a lot, if you listen.  What we heard is that our son fit the mold for a lot of  Northeast schools... a California-raised LHP that is smart and can pitch/hit his spots.  My son was not that unique here in CA -- but caught the attention of the schools in the CCA/Patriot/Ivy/NESEAC instantly.  From there, it was a case of did my son perform at the right time at camps and showcases (Headfirst).  In some cases he did great and others he didn't.  That is just baseball.  End of the day -- he passed on a few D1s that were interested because he knew there was a good chance he was going to struggle to get playing time for the first year or two -- and what was important to him was getting to play.  So he opted for a D3 program that is a great academic school as well.  He went where we felt the most love.  

You son sounds like he throws just a bit harder than our son which will give him more options and good for him. Best of luck on the journey.