I see sandwich artistry in McQuery's near future.
quote:Originally posted by MTH:
"...But it's hard for me to be as hard on [McQueary] as Paterno. I keep thinking about my 22 y/o son in the same situation. I'd like to think that he would have beaten the **** out of Sandusky, called the cops, or both. But it's really hard to say how someone that age would react when he stumbled on the last thing in the world he ever expected to see."
I'm with you, to an extent, MTH. I don't really fault McQueary for what he did in 2002, even though I would hope my son (or I) would have done something more and different. But that doesn't explain why he continued to do nothing over the next ten years. He knew the police never interviewed him. He knew Sandusky continued to be around campus, seemingly with free reign even though he had been told Sandusky had been "banned." In a small town, he had to have known that Sandusky continued to work with youth through The Second Mile foundation, even on Penn State University campuses, even as he was called to testify before a grand jury. And he did nothing, for almost ten years - instead choosing to continue to work with and for the people who were clearly sweeping all this under the rug, and choosing Big Time Football and The Legend of Joe Paterno over the welfare of children. It's despicable, and only marginally understandable in just the very first days for McQueary. After that - he's as culpable as any of them.
I haven't read over this entire thread but think for a moment what a creep Sandusky must be. I am guessing he molested hundreds and hundreds of kids - not just the 8 alleged ones. The reason I feel that way is Sandusky was very brazen to be doing these things in a semi-public place (a school shower) and that tells me he thought he could get away with it with impunity. Not only that, but it is my understanding that he had 6 adopted children. I hate to say this, but I am guessing that someone that was willing to risk his entire career and reputation by doing something out in the open probably had no qualms about doing these things with his "family" in private. Other than there were no murders involved, this case reminds me of John Wayne Gacy - at least the depravity of it does.
quote:Originally posted by EdgarFan:
As I process this scandal, which I think is as big as any I've ever seen in my lifetime,
Let's not forget about the Roman Catholic Church in terms of the scope of *** abuse scandals.
Point taken, like2rake, but I was referring to college sports scandals.
It's kind of telling though that you would even compare it to the Catholic Church abuse scandal, isn't it? And no question, the parallels are there - protection of big institutions and reputations at the expense of children's welfare seems to be at the heart of both.
It's kind of telling though that you would even compare it to the Catholic Church abuse scandal, isn't it? And no question, the parallels are there - protection of big institutions and reputations at the expense of children's welfare seems to be at the heart of both.
quote:Originally posted by EdgarFan:
Point taken, like2rake, but I was referring to college sports scandals.
It's kind of telling though that you would even compare it to the Catholic Church abuse scandal, isn't it? And no question, the parallels are there - protection of big institutions and reputations at the expense of children's welfare seems to be at the heart of both.
Agreed, in terms of sports scandals, this has got to be at or near the top.
As soon as I read the unfolding details of this story, one of the first things I thought of was how the situation parallels the Catholic Church scandal in so many ways.
O.K...I'm just gonna' say it outright.
As close as all these guys were for many years...(some played for, hung out with, families got together, "heir apparents", social-business-athletic connections, etc.) It seems inconceivable to me (even based on the who saw what/who told who scenarios) that Joe Paterno, one of the most powerful men in sports/ncaa athletics/Pennsylvania does not know practically everything about Sandusky...and has known for some time.
His comment about not wanting the board having to spend any more time concerning themselves with him, so they can concentrate on the legal matters at hand, seems like one of those "this is my last chance to slink out the back door" statements.
I am having a huge problem...I personally believe...(because he has always been known as a guy who has his pulse on everything)...he knew EVERYTHING (at least in some manner). I personally believe the "duty reporting it to his superior" is a sham...a statement such as "O.K., here it is...handle it with least exposure possible and leave me out of it" was made...and probably more than once.
yikes! can't believe I believe this...but, I BELIEVE THIS!
(hope I am wrong)
As close as all these guys were for many years...(some played for, hung out with, families got together, "heir apparents", social-business-athletic connections, etc.) It seems inconceivable to me (even based on the who saw what/who told who scenarios) that Joe Paterno, one of the most powerful men in sports/ncaa athletics/Pennsylvania does not know practically everything about Sandusky...and has known for some time.
His comment about not wanting the board having to spend any more time concerning themselves with him, so they can concentrate on the legal matters at hand, seems like one of those "this is my last chance to slink out the back door" statements.
I am having a huge problem...I personally believe...(because he has always been known as a guy who has his pulse on everything)...he knew EVERYTHING (at least in some manner). I personally believe the "duty reporting it to his superior" is a sham...a statement such as "O.K., here it is...handle it with least exposure possible and leave me out of it" was made...and probably more than once.
yikes! can't believe I believe this...but, I BELIEVE THIS!
(hope I am wrong)
quote:Originally posted by EdgarFan:
Point taken, like2rake, but I was referring to college sports scandals.
It's kind of telling though that you would even compare it to the Catholic Church abuse scandal, isn't it? And no question, the parallels are there - protection of big institutions and reputations at the expense of children's welfare seems to be at the heart of both.
The parallel here is eerily similar. Penn State is just a smaller, self-contained version of the Catholic church situation. Extremely disturbing at that.
How Paterno could be talking about staying for the rest of the year is unthinkable. I just think he doesn't get it. Please leave. Now!
quote:As close as all these guys were for many years...(some played for, hung out with, families got together, "heir apparents", social-business-athletic connections, etc.) It seems inconceivable to me (even based on the who saw what/who told who scenarios) that Joe Paterno, one of the most powerful men in sports/ncaa athletics/Pennsylvania does not know practically everything about Sandusky...and has known for some time.
Yep, Paterno has been at Penn State since 1950 and Sandusky since 1963. Almost forty years together when that incident was reported to him and their superiors and near ten years since then. Too many unanswered questions.
I find it very difficult if not impossible to refer to any of these people who knew even one tiny spec of information about all of this as MEN.
They are not.
I have two boys. I just went to my photo album to find their photos at 11 years of age. I wept as I thought for a moment of this happening to these beautiful bright shining innocent boys.
For anyone defending in anyway the non-actions of these so called 'men', get real.
They don't know right from wrong? They turn their backs on their moral duty as human beings to protect children?
A man, a shower, and a child - call Police. You do not need to wait and tell your boss. Call Police.
If you are reading this, please make a promise to yourself that you will act if faced with a situation like this no matter how uncomfortable or fearful you may be.
Passersby will call authorities when they see a dog locked in a car on a hot day, and yet.......
They are not.
I have two boys. I just went to my photo album to find their photos at 11 years of age. I wept as I thought for a moment of this happening to these beautiful bright shining innocent boys.
For anyone defending in anyway the non-actions of these so called 'men', get real.
They don't know right from wrong? They turn their backs on their moral duty as human beings to protect children?
A man, a shower, and a child - call Police. You do not need to wait and tell your boss. Call Police.
If you are reading this, please make a promise to yourself that you will act if faced with a situation like this no matter how uncomfortable or fearful you may be.
Passersby will call authorities when they see a dog locked in a car on a hot day, and yet.......
I have not read the previous 90 posts, but I am so outraged that I want to comment.
Paterno's and Penn State's actions are deplorable. this may seem harsh, but I think it deserves the death penalty (although statute of limitations for NCAA action probably has expired). Talk about lack of institutional control. How can any decent human allow Sandusky stick around as recently as last week???? And for Paterno to tell the trustees not to concern themselves with his status as coach takes real big ones. I don't care what he has done for the school or football. He should be fired immediately. His failure to follow through erases everything he has ever done in my mind. When I think Paterno from here forward, I wont think of longevity or wins or ambassador for college football, I will think of a man who allowed a scumbag child molester to work alongside of him and hide his horrific acts. This is a man who turned away from a man robbing poor children of their innonce, and still wants to leave on his own terms. Give me a break.
As to McCreary (or whatever his name is) he should go hide and be utterly embarrased of his failure to STOP what he saw in the shower. Just another individual looking out for himself. He should have beat Sandusky down and called the police immediately.
Paterno's and Penn State's actions are deplorable. this may seem harsh, but I think it deserves the death penalty (although statute of limitations for NCAA action probably has expired). Talk about lack of institutional control. How can any decent human allow Sandusky stick around as recently as last week???? And for Paterno to tell the trustees not to concern themselves with his status as coach takes real big ones. I don't care what he has done for the school or football. He should be fired immediately. His failure to follow through erases everything he has ever done in my mind. When I think Paterno from here forward, I wont think of longevity or wins or ambassador for college football, I will think of a man who allowed a scumbag child molester to work alongside of him and hide his horrific acts. This is a man who turned away from a man robbing poor children of their innonce, and still wants to leave on his own terms. Give me a break.
As to McCreary (or whatever his name is) he should go hide and be utterly embarrased of his failure to STOP what he saw in the shower. Just another individual looking out for himself. He should have beat Sandusky down and called the police immediately.
quote:Originally posted by TRhit:
all weknow is what we read and every story I have seen has been different
TR,
The stories are not different. To my knowledge, there is no dispute McCreary saw what he saw. There is no dispute that Paterno was told about it. There is not dispute that Paterno told his "superior" (what a joke). There is no dispute that sandusky previously admitted to inappropriately fondling a child. There is no dispute that Penn State has allowed Sandusky access to the facilities as recently as last week. I have not heard or read of any individual discussed in this scandal deny anything.
I am editing this as TR's post was a couple days ago. Pperhaps he did not have the facts. But if you still feel the same way then my response remains.
Innocent until proven guilty just doesn't seem to apply in this case. I am absolutely disgusted by everything about this situation. I find it incomprehensible how so many people through the years have known or suspected wrong-doing and yet did nothing to stop it.
I am appalled that anyone had such power as to stop the prosecution of this monster. How many lives have been wrecked by this man and his cronies? Sandusky may be the guiltiest but all those that stood by silently have to share the blame.
Absolutely disgusting that this was allowed to go on so long. Any one associated with this should do us all a favor and resign immediately.
My heart goes out to all the families that have had their lives ruined by this creep.
I am appalled that anyone had such power as to stop the prosecution of this monster. How many lives have been wrecked by this man and his cronies? Sandusky may be the guiltiest but all those that stood by silently have to share the blame.
Absolutely disgusting that this was allowed to go on so long. Any one associated with this should do us all a favor and resign immediately.
My heart goes out to all the families that have had their lives ruined by this creep.
I'm with 2013 Dad on this. He should not coach this week's game and his office cleared out.
His arrogant comment about the trustees not having to worry about his status, sheds some light on how he views himself vs local authorities.
His arrogant comment about the trustees not having to worry about his status, sheds some light on how he views himself vs local authorities.
PSU President is packing his bags. No way Joe Pa hangs on til the last game when the President goes.
No graceful way now for Joe, just get the heck out, the whole PSU group involved in this thing is disgusting. Just go...
No graceful way now for Joe, just get the heck out, the whole PSU group involved in this thing is disgusting. Just go...
.
And if there is anyone out there reading this and doesn't know right from wrong I have one piece of advice...start learning. This should never have happened and it certainly should never have continued once known.
.
- "Sandusky may be the guiltiest but all those that stood by silently have to share the blame."
And if there is anyone out there reading this and doesn't know right from wrong I have one piece of advice...start learning. This should never have happened and it certainly should never have continued once known.
.
Joe's gotta go, beyond despicable to hang on another 15 minutes.
Papa Joe is done. I would be shocked if the board of trustees allow him to coach because of the fact he would have to deal with the media for the next 7 weeks and there is no way they want a 84 year old person who is not all there representing the school and saying something stupid.
Ok, I just read the 23 page indictment. The cover up is clear in reading about Victim 6. The university police officer was told to close the investigation. This investigation was while Sandusky was coaching.
I defy anyone to tell me with a straight face that Paterno did not know. A dispicable human being (as well as everyone else who aided in this cover up. Allowing Sandusky to coach along side of him. I want to throw up.
I defy anyone to tell me with a straight face that Paterno did not know. A dispicable human being (as well as everyone else who aided in this cover up. Allowing Sandusky to coach along side of him. I want to throw up.
Anyone who knew,heard or suspected and didn't do or say anything, is guilty. Shame on all of them. this creep, to have the B<":ls to this this in public places...he must have been getting away with this for a very very long time. the list unfortunately will be long.
This sad story is a classic example of the overemphasis on college sports. In the past forty years money has corrupted major college sports.
With ESPN and FSN now chasing down high school football and basketball expect big time high school sports to stink in a decade. Right now the stink in high school sports is the unsportsmanship of running up ridiculous scores for national visibility. At some point the stink will be unbearable. It will come from television money.
If Paterno is around until the end of the year it will be about the dollar. Penn State is in position to win their conference and play in a major bowl game. Then again, there is something to be said for innocent until proven guilty.
Over the past ten years there has been a Joe Must Go element of Penn State alumnus. It started with a few years of mediocrity on the field. It continued with off the field events of his players. I wonder how much in control Paterno has been the past few years.
Ultimately, when Paterno writes his memiors I expect to see regret he hung around as long as he did. He'll express remorse the last ten years he trusted people in his program with more control than he should have let get away from him.
With ESPN and FSN now chasing down high school football and basketball expect big time high school sports to stink in a decade. Right now the stink in high school sports is the unsportsmanship of running up ridiculous scores for national visibility. At some point the stink will be unbearable. It will come from television money.
If Paterno is around until the end of the year it will be about the dollar. Penn State is in position to win their conference and play in a major bowl game. Then again, there is something to be said for innocent until proven guilty.
Over the past ten years there has been a Joe Must Go element of Penn State alumnus. It started with a few years of mediocrity on the field. It continued with off the field events of his players. I wonder how much in control Paterno has been the past few years.
Ultimately, when Paterno writes his memiors I expect to see regret he hung around as long as he did. He'll express remorse the last ten years he trusted people in his program with more control than he should have let get away from him.
OUT: Penn State head football coach Joe Paterno announced Wednesday he will retire at the end of the season, saying, "I wish I had done more" to help the victims of alleged *** abuse by his former assistant.
The ONLY way Penn State can come out of this with some shred of respectability is to completely clean house. I mean everyone.
And the police have some house cleaning to do too. Imagine that mother being told there was nothing that could be done when you have a predator confessing to you!!? good gracious
And the police have some house cleaning to do too. Imagine that mother being told there was nothing that could be done when you have a predator confessing to you!!? good gracious
The president of the university is under fire. With the money big time college football brings in college presidents usually have a decent idea of what's going on in the program.quote:Originally posted by 55mom:
The ONLY way Penn State can come out of this with some shred of respectability is to completely clean house. I mean everyone.
And the police have some house cleaning to do too. Imagine that mother being told there was nothing that could be done when you have a predator confessing to you!!? good gracious
I think the board has a meeting tomorrow or Friday.
I do feel bad for the the students and for the football team. The students are understandably loyal to tradition, and as for the team....It must be incredibly difficult for the players on so many levels.
I do feel bad for the the students and for the football team. The students are understandably loyal to tradition, and as for the team....It must be incredibly difficult for the players on so many levels.
Graham Spanier Has Resigned as Penn State President
They shouldn't be allowed to resign. They should be fired.
Joe Pa was just fired.
Paterno is done, trustees fired him tonight.
He should have stepped down. There was only 2 ways he was ever going to leave. In a coffin or fired.
SMU. Death Penalty.
So far the HSBBW response has been overwhelmingly against Paterno.
At this time there are four comments after the ESPN article and two of them think it's terrible that Paterno is under fire.
Our group is obviously much more in touch with reality.
At this time there are four comments after the ESPN article and two of them think it's terrible that Paterno is under fire.
Our group is obviously much more in touch with reality.
There isn't a reason for the death penalty. The issue here is human failings not football failings. This isn't about cheating for a competitive edge.quote:Originally posted by SultanofSwat:
SMU. Death Penalty.
One problem is the PC nature of the college campus. The president and Paterno should be allowed to remain until a verdict is reached. Otherwise we have guilty until proven innocent. This doesn't mean I believe the incident didn't occur. It means I believe in our constitution.
quote:SMU. Death Penalty.
Not NCAA jursidiction..
quote:Originally posted by RJM:There isn't a reason for the death penalty. The issue here is human failings not football failings. This isn't about cheating for a competitive edge.quote:Originally posted by SultanofSwat:
SMU. Death Penalty.
One problem is the PC nature of the college campus. The president and Paterno should be allowed to remain until a verdict is reached. Otherwise we have guilty until proven innocent. This doesn't mean I believe the incident didn't occur. It means I believe in our constitution.
It may be a PC decision, but more often than not, people in positions like Spainer and Paterno are fired for much less. They should have been fired. Maybe even a few years ago. The Grand jury met for months. Back in April there was a least one column concerning this issue. They all saw it coming.
PC? - it's a moral issue. Much more important. But if Penn State was firing on a moral issue, it would have been done, like I said, years ago.
http://www.timesonline.com/col...ml#user-comment-area
This asks some interesting questions. From April
This asks some interesting questions. From April
Joe was not some employee who just needed to tell his boss of a problem Joe was the boss at that place and when he didn't go to the police directly when informed of the incident he was sending a clear message to everyone how he wanted it handled internally.
IMO I can't imagine a direct coverup where he said he didn't want administration to contact police but by not initiating direct contact with the police he let everyone know his wishes in this matter.
IMO I can't imagine a direct coverup where he said he didn't want administration to contact police but by not initiating direct contact with the police he let everyone know his wishes in this matter.
People should not be fired until they are found guilty. Otherwise we're getting away from what our constitution is about, freedom and liberty. They should have been placed on leave pending an investigation.quote:Originally posted by 55mom:quote:Originally posted by RJM:There isn't a reason for the death penalty. The issue here is human failings not football failings. This isn't about cheating for a competitive edge.quote:Originally posted by SultanofSwat:
SMU. Death Penalty.
One problem is the PC nature of the college campus. The president and Paterno should be allowed to remain until a verdict is reached. Otherwise we have guilty until proven innocent. This doesn't mean I believe the incident didn't occur. It means I believe in our constitution.
It may be a PC decision, but more often than not, people in positions like Spainer and Paterno are fired for much less. They should have been fired. Maybe even a few years ago. The Grand jury met for months. Back in April there was a least one column concerning this issue. They all saw it coming.
PC? - it's a moral issue. Much more important. But if Penn State was firing on a moral issue, it would have been done, like I said, years ago.
What may have happened is Paterno and the president were told if they want to ensure there will be no harm to their pension or parachute, resign now. Otherwise risk the consequences of investigation. There may be a morals clause in their contracts that would remove benefits if fired.