senior and coach at odds

My first priority would be to have the player talk to the coach and try to fix the situation.  He is going to have to deal with personality issues with other coaches, coworkers, etc. for the rest of his life so it is a good idea to learn how to deal with it effectively.  If he gives this a legitimate effort and it doesn't work, then you might have to look into other options.  I know of a similar situation where a potential D-1 player was benched for the majority of his senior season (don't know why, didn't ask) and ended up having to go JuCo.  I heard that D-1 coaches had called the HS coach to ask when the player would be pitching so they could come watch but were told that he was suspended without any reason given.

My advice would be that your son not you initiate a conversation with the coach and the subject would be what do I have to do to improve and make the team as I want to play and help the team win?

Hopefully that conversation clears the air and your son gets through his Senior year and moves on to play at next level. Depending on the feedback and outcome , you can then determine next steps.

 He might as well try to clear the air first , because coaches want to win and if he is as good as outlined above , the attitude must be a huge issue in this coach's mind so much so that he would rather him not there around younger players. Not saying the coach is right in his view just pointing out that most elite players don't get cut.

Son has the opportunity to learn a few lessons about life and suck it up and try to repair this.

IMO he must recognize that the coach is going to be there and it is his ball club.  Unless Coach is doing something inappropriate that would warrant a dismissal he is not going to change or go anywhere.  So the player has to suck it up and deal with it if he wants to play. 

It will not be the last time in his life he will deal someone that will not be of his choosing but comes with the territory AND he doesn't like.  Teachers, bosses and In-laws come to mind for starters.  Death matches every time you encounter someone that rubs you wrong is a tough way to live life. 

I also don't know how much respect this coach as among the other coaches but if he is warning people off your son as "not worth it attitude" then your son is also getting another lesson.  You are your reputation.  Protect it, build it and cherish it.  In the end your good name is among everyone's most valuable possessions. 

baseballmom25,

If your high school coach is anything like my son's I wouldn't worry about it hurting his chances. If he is on one of the top travel teams in the country,chances are he should be getting noticed by college coaches following the travel team. I don't think a lot of college coaches put much stock into what a high school coach thinks anyway. They see the bad ones for what they are,guy's just out to collect the extra $3000 per year to coach the team. If your son is that good, then the decision not to play him is more a reflection on the stupidity of the coach and his bias toward your son.

My son has been receiving college offers from coaches who have seen him play during his travel season, not during his high school season. Good Luck !!

Until a month ago I would have seconded Vikingboy's comments with gusto But my son is currently being recruited by a school where their pitching coach spent about an hour on the phone with his HS coach.  

i only say that to caution that there are coaches who want to know what your son's HS coach has to say about him. 

I'm guessing part of the problem has been generated by your son. Then how he carries himself bothered the coach. Your son should politely approach the coach and have a talk with him. Your son will need to understand who the person of power is (it's not him) before having this talk. The situation may not be hard to fix. The coach may respect your son manning up and addressing the situation. 

I'm sure your son would rather be playing. But regardless of what happens he (or you) shouldn't bad mouth the coach. If asked, "I would prefer not to discuss it." It would be better not to have a red flag senior year. It may be harmless. It may not. You never know. But the easy fix is fix it now.

Well.......does he show these things?  If so then this is 100% on your son to fix this relationship.  If he's really not this way then I seriously doubt this relationship can be fixed.  If your son has the talent and is being seen by the right people he will be fine.  It's like my principal says - the reason why you try to provide 3 - 5 references is that if there is an issue with someone there are others that will off set it.

People who work for me.... don't, for long at least,  if they have "an attitude and are arrogant"  Don't know the situation but the solution is your son's problem. 

Regarding recruiting it is hard to say, depends if the recruiting coach calls up the head coach and what he says.  

If your son wants to play HE has to go and speak to the coach, not YOU. Stay out of it.

I am willing to bet that his attitude and arrogance did him in, some players think that they are so good they can act anyway they wish because the coach will never let them go. Obviously that isnt true.  And obviously the coach doesnt want his attitude to rub off on the younger players.

Sounds like your son may need some growing up, maybe this will be a good lesson for him.

Blaming the coach on ruining his recruiting chances just does't cut it for me.

The old saying -- You catch more flies with honey.  Whether your kid is right or wrong (bad attitude and arrogance or not), he needs to suck it up, swallow his pride and fix it with the coach.  The beauty is in 8-9 months, he'll be graduating and he'll never have to deal with the guy again.  So it is only short term.  Good luck. 

I agree with others.  Your son should try to mend the fence with the high school coach and hope the coach will give him an opportunity to personally grow and lead the younger players next year.  If your son is as talented as you suggest, he'll probably find a program based on his skills and the resources of his national travel team.  My oldest son played for a similar type travel team and only one college coach called his high school coach.  All the other college coaches called his travel coach.

Hopefully your son grows out of this phase of his life, and realizes he may have another shot at a better working relationship with his college coaches and teammates who will be far less forgiving.   Working among a team of 34 other talented college players and a coaching staff will keep him in check and humbled. 

Good luck.

Welcome to the site.  That is a brave and honest first post.  Do you and/or your son see his attitude/arrogance as a potential problem with coaches at the next level?  Are there any issues with the travel team coach?

The fact that son plays on a top travel team and he has a good skill set (and he is confident) will obviously garner him opportunities, as you have already experienced.  However, if the attitude/arrogance issues are significant, this can both cost him further opportunities and make it difficult for him to fit in well with a college team (as well as the coach).  So, taking the higher road, shaping up and making every effort to give the coach what he wants for the senior year can only be a worthwhile exercise, even if the coach rejects the attempt.

Someone once told me that, in most cases, your son's high school coach won't be instrumental is getting your child a college offer, but he could definitely keep your child from getting an offer.  

On another note, my son's basketball coach told the parents that for the past several years he had spent a lot of time coaching attitude, and that last year that would stop.  He wanted all of his players to have a good attitude so that he could coach basketball and not attitude.  The kid with the most talent and the worst attitude just announced that he was transferring due to lack of playing time. 

This is 100% your son's fault, and 100% your fault for enabling him and not teaching him accountability for actions.

A kid with ability and a bad attitude will wreck a team. If your son is unwilling to change his attitude issues, how much does he really care about playing?

Saying a coach didn't select your kid due to "personal feelings" is a cop out. His "personal feeling" may be that your son has a crappy attitude. 

And another piece of advice would be not to be hung up on a "D1" offer. If he can play immediately at a D2 or juco than that is most likely a better place for him to be. If a D1 hasn't offered yet, he probably isn't a big piece of their immediate future his freshman year. The D1 label is often an ego thing. Doesn't mean it will give him the best shot at advancing his baseball career.

BaseballMom - I  agree with many of the posts here.  It's up to your son to mend fences with the HS coach.  Not yours.  Baseball is a team sport and supporting the team (not the individual) goes a long way.  It's about the team, not the individual.

As far as transferring to another HS - consult your states rules.  Some states have very restrictive rules about transferring - in some cases the student has to wait one year before he can play any sport at the school he transferred to. 

It's hard to say how not playing his senior year will sit with college coaches.  Some put emphasis on what they saw at showcases and tournaments while others want to see how a potential recruit interacts with his HS teammates.

Was he on a showcase or travel team?  How did the D1, D2 and JuCo's become aware of him?

My son's HS coach was very instrumental in getting interest for my son at the next level.  He ended up at a D2 JuCo and received a nice D2 offer towards the end of his 2nd year at the JuCo.

Baseballmom,

I dont think that others mean to be hard on you, for me, as a mom I know how we want to protect our young, its instinctive, but I can tell you from experience that if you get on his case while in HS, it will be easier later on.  Most college programs will not put up with attitudes so better to adjust it now.  Maybe the coach is letting your son know in his own way, improve or you wont play for me in the spring.

FWIW, when my son was being recruited by a particular program one of the players (a first round pick out of HS) was strongly trying to sell himself to this same program. The coach told me later on that there was no way he would offer that player, even though he knew he would be drafted and most likely one of the most talented he saw that year, he wasnt taking any chances, he did not appreciate his attitude.

Also throughout my sons 3 years of college, I had seen a player or two asked to leave because they just were not "team" players.   Keep in mind that is VERY important in the college game to not come with an attitude that you are better, or that the coach turned into an idiot, or is against you, or he should be acting more like the adult, because by 18 your son IS now an adult and responsible for his actions and attitude.

You can think that all you want, but it has to not ever be related to those that will determine whether you play or not. NEVER.

Also stop feeding the wolf, by letting your son think he is better than anyone else. Parents need to step back, only time you have a say is when your player is hurt.

Good luck.

If it were my son, I would advise him to request a meeting with the coach to say, "Message received.  I realize I've had a bad attitude.  I am sorry.  I will work hard to improve.  Please re-consider putting me on the fall team.  If you don't, I will accept your decision and spend the fall working hard so I can show up at the spring tryouts ready to play with a better attitude and a stronger body. Please give me another chance."

The thing people often forget when talking about the importance of a high school coach. The HS coaches are all different when it comes to credibility with college coaches.  

However, no matter how much clout a high school coach has, most college recruiters interested in your son will want to talk to his HS coach, travel coach, and others that might know him.  Most often it won't be about his ability because the college coach already knows about that. They want to know what the HS coach thinks when it comes to being coachable, a good teammate, bad habits, attitude, character, toughness, work ethic, etc.  In other words, they want to know what kind of kid they are likely to get.

Talent is always the main thing, but it is far from the only thing.  There have been many extremely talented players end up failing because of something other than talent. It is why makeup is so very important to MLB scouting departments. 

BaseballMom25,  Please take this the right way.  It doesn't make any difference if all of this is the coaches fault or your sons fault.  It's not good! It is a red flag!  It is something that needs to be corrected, if at all possible. 

Good advice.  My son had a couple of issues with his coach and I had him march in his office and work it out.  Hell, there were times when I wanted to punch my son as well because of his 17-18 year old attitude.  ALL YOU DADS ON THE BOARD THAT HAVE/HAD A 17 YEAR OLD KNOW WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT. 

If we, as adults, have a disagreement with the boss we better figure it out or it can hurt our careers.  It does not matter who is right or wrong, just that there is a problem.  This is a good time for son to learn this lesson and work it out.  It's part of growing up.    

Thanks for all the replies.  I have received some good information.  While I do think I was a little harsh and made it seem as though my son is mostly at fault for the bad relationship, I do recognize that he needs to make some adjustments as to how he handles himself in situations that he may believe are not favorable to him. I am not certain that any talk my son has will make the coach see him differently but I am going to encourage him to do it.  If this is not successful, do you think moving him would be best?  He could live with his father and attend the school in his area.  I am just not sure what happens if someone calls your new hs coach and he has not been around you since you are a transfer. Any ideas about how this might be perceived?

BBmom25,

Many on this board will tell you to have your son settle things with the coach and adjust his attitude. The only one who can make this call is your family. Nobody on this board knows your son or his coach. Most are assuming your son is wrong (he may be?) but we don't know for sure.

A very good player came to my sons high school team last year because he could not along with his old coach. Our team did very, very well and the so called "trouble maker" has since committed to a D1 program in So Cal. He was a good kid and teammate according to my son. You just never know.

Good luck, a new school/head coach  may be just what he needs.

So your son plays on one of the top travel teams in the country....and yet you're worried about him being recruited from a "not so good" HS team as a senior next spring???   Sorry to be blunt, but something is very wrong with this picture.  If he's on one of the top travel teams in the country and is going to be recruited...he would be getting recruited now....next spring on a bad HS team will get him absolutely no recruiting of any kind.  Seems to me like maybe if he does have the attitude you're saying he does that maybe college coaches are also seeing it...and have stayed away....as prime time for rising seniors was this summer...not next spring.  I'm thinking you're in a tough spot...both with the HS coach...and with your son's recruiting timetable. 

Buckeye, you make  good point about the player's senior year of HS ball not being relevant, but the OP did say that he had D2 and Juco offers already.

 As I said previously, I think I have been too harsh on my son.  My son has never had any issues with his travel ball coaches and is considered very coachable.  I would find it hard to believe that any scout has seen a negative attitude from him.    He is generally a happy kid who really enjoys the game.  However, he is still maturing and thus has done things off the field at school that his hs coach probably views as signs of immaturity and the coach's response to these instances has not been to talk to him but rather issue stiff punishments on the field (sit him games, look at him with disgust and be very short with him in a no nonsense manner.  I do not think the two of them have had a smile or positive exchange accept maybe a couple of times.  As for scholarship offers, my son is getting looks and has been to some camps at some big schools and shown very well and drawn interest.  He is still getting interest and by fall he is hoping to have solidified one of his top schools.  The issue is that even after he is recruited he still needs to play his senior year right?  This is the idea behind the move to a new school.  As parents, we are trying to make the best decision for his senior year overall while recognizing the importance of baseball in his future plans.

First your son did something, then he did nothing, now he did something.

Stop enabling your son.  Transferring him won't teach your son to face the issue head on.

He should put his big boy pants on and talk to the coach.

baseballmom25- I'm usually pretty sympathetic to difficult situations with HS baseball coaches. My HS baseball experience was miserable. The head coach was a manipulative egomaniac who made life miserable the majority of the time. I despised him and couldn't wait to graduate and move on to college, where the coaching staff would hopefully be different (they were). I haven't said a word to my HS coach since the last game of my senior year and don't plan on changing that ever.

With that being said, acknowledging that your son has made mistakes and continuing to defend him by pointing blame at the coach for troubles is not only enabling, but is taking away your son's responsibility to reap rewards and suffer consequences for his actions. As several posters have said already, the only way to properly resolve such issues is to have your son approach the coach in a respectful, professional, mature manner and have a discussion about their differences. Everyone knows that teenagers can be immature and do dumb things. What's more important than recognizing those immature and dumb things is addressing them and understanding how to move forward past them.

I'm not saying that your son's coach is 100% innocent in this situation. He very well might not be. But to imply that your son is, well, that's to live with blinders on. Especially given your acknowledgement of his transgressions off the field, however minor they may seem to you.

In the words of TPM…JMO.

He's a kid and he will do dumb stuff on and off the field.  It happens and the vast majority of us have been through this.  What matters the most is how you handle it once it happens.  I have no idea what his attitude is or what off the field things he has done but those are your words.  Right now based on what I'm reading, and I could be wrong because I truly have no idea what the whole story is, your son needs to have his first "man up" session and talk to the coach.  The coach may be the biggest jacka$$ on the face of the earth but he's still the coach and he still makes the line up out.  When you have an issue with someone the worst thing you can do is ignore it or run away from it - you face it.  Have your son have a private sit down with the coach and see what's going on.  Your son needs to be humble enough that if it's truly his fault to be wise enough to see this and work to resolve it.  If it's not his fault then you will see that the coach is a jacka$$ and there's no resolving the situation.  The good thing about this is you know now what's going on and can move forward.

The worst thing you can do is move because you're teaching your son to run from issues.  You and his father are not letting him experience things to where he can learn, grow and mature into someone who can handle their own issues.  You and the father can help your son do this by helping him prepare for the conversation.  Go over things to ask / discuss, how to phrase things without having attitude and things like that.

Another issue with transferring him to another school is research the heck out of it.  I'm assuming you and the father are not married and that you have primary custody of your son.  Most states (if not all - not sure) will want the father to take over primary custody of the son before he's able to enroll or be eligible to play sports.  As an AD myself these are things I have to look into when a new kid transfers into our school.  Usually it's taken care of by our counseling department because our county does not allow students to enroll unless custody has changed hands.  I have no clue what your situation is but it is something to think about.

I'm a bit reluctant to offer parenting advice but you specifically asked, so...

There are so many things (beyond baseball) to consider before moving a kid to a different school, particularly his senior year and particularly with sports as a major factor in the decision.  Please think them through thoroughly.  Only the parents and son will have enough info and insight to make a properly measured decision.  That said, I think it is good to ask here.  Some can offer up specific scenarios to consider, such as what Coach2709 provided.  Is it legal?  Would he forfeit athletic eligibility?  Does the son want to move?  What logistics issues will this cause?  Where is the stronger friend network?  Other activities?  Other adjustments?  Other kids?  Academic comparisons... the list goes on.  You can also search the forums here for more discussions on the topic.

 I think you are seeing enough signs to know that playing HS ball his senior year is not necessarily critical to playing at the college level.  I also think JH said it best about using this as a learning opportunity for your son to take responsibility for his actions (ironically, JH is one of the only posters on this thread who is not a parent).  This may be one of the last chances for you as parents to send the right message and teach him in that regard.  I think, even as important as baseball may seem right now, this is far more important.

If your son tries to do the right thing (take the high road and make amends with the coach and make a sincere effort to adjust his behavior), I believe it will eventually work out for the best.  Even if the coach does not respond to his efforts, there are other ways to get the necessary work in to continue to hone his baseball skills.

As a HS coach, I get some kids with stellar character, several with typical teen maturity challenges, some with issues beyond the norm, etc.  I think the most rewarding interactions I have are when the kids with the typical maturity challenges show efforts to break through and become respectable young men (and teammates).  I certainly would welcome hearing from a player who wishes to do so, regardless of any past issues.

...he is still maturing and thus has done things off the field at school that his hs coach probably views as signs of immaturity and the coach's response to these instances has not been to talk to him but rather issue stiff punishments on the field (sit him games, look at him with disgust and be very short with him in a no nonsense manner.

Sounds to me like the Coach is doing some parenting by disciplining an "arrogant teen with attitude". Sounds like Coach had/has higher expectations of your sons behavior. Sounds to me like Coach is silently inviting son to humble himself & straighten out the attitude. Sounds to me like Coach is telling this boy who is the boss on his TEAM. 

As a senior in HS, your son is representing your family values, his HS, his ball team, his Coach, etc, etc.  He's old enough to be choosing how he wants to be viewed (judged) by those who have the power/influence to help or hinder or...show apathy. He's in control of his own reputation & hopefully will STAND for what the Coach is wanting from him...as teammate, as a young adult, as a soon to be man.

While my kids were growing up, part of my job, as a parent was to teach "choice".. If son got into some situation at school or with friend/foe, think before you act/speak/react. If/when he committed a "wrong", address it immediately, & accept the consequences or do what was necessary to right the wrong. 

Moral: You win or lose by the way you choose.

B Mom 25 this is a tough issue. I hope it works out, and that your son and the coach can resolve or at least put their issues behind them.

FWIW, my son garnered his interest and offer from the Travel coach who had the contact with the Head Coach where my son is headed this fall. He not the HS Coach assisted with his recruitment as he does with the boys in his program. Even then , the Coach called his HS Coach and exchanged emails with the  HS Asst Coach\ Pitching Coach,  they do their due diligence and hoping they won't make contact will not work.

Only 1 solution , son has to eat some humble pie, lead by example and get through the year. If he really wants to play at the next level he will do it.

 Good luck and keep us posted on how it works out. 

OP, I know you are probably sick of hearing everyone here telling you your son needs to man up and talk to the HS Coach and try to fix things with him, but its true.  I know HS baseball is a minor point in the recruitment process but many college coaches will call the HS coach to verify the kids character.

I ran track in college (i know its not baseball but..) and I can tell you once you are in college the coaches take absolutely no BS.  If they fell like the athletes character is not up to par they will deal with it. Some may talk to the athlete first others may react as your HS coach has and just eliminate them from the team.  It does not matter if its an attitude on the field or an off the field incident.  When you show up to your team organization meeting before the season starts the team rules will be explained to the athletes.  Most schools will require the athlete to sign an agreement recognizing the rules.  If you break one of these rules it will be dealt with.  How its dealt with is up to the coach.  He may go soft on one kid and boot another.  Its totally up to him and the athlete has no say.  It may not be fair but thats the way it is.  Its better for your son to learn to deal with these issues now instead of trying to navigate through it later in his career.  

Agree with joes87 here.  My son is going into his junior year at a top D2 university.  In two years, I have seen 3 players get cut primarily for attitude problems.  In one case, the player felt he should be a two way guy and coach wanted him as a PO.  He was a good pitcher and probably would have been a starter sophomore year.  Kid debated with the coach during his exit interview and coach just told him to pack his stuff and go somewhere else.  Another kid was a pretty good relief pitcher, but also felt he should be two way.  He got cut at the end of the year because coach didn't think he was a good teammate because of his attitude towards not playing in the field.  Third kid was a top weekend starter as a freshman and sophomore.  Got in some off field trouble, did not have a good attitude and work ethic.  Final straw was being late to a practice and coach cut him.  Went to an NAIA the next two years and wound up drafted.  Even the good players will not be tolerated if they do not have a good attitude.

As others have said, I don't know enough about all the details here, but your son should learn to deal with this situation without running away.  It could crop up again in college and it will not be dealt with kindly.

To answer your question about moving, bad, bad idea. Senior year is about more than baseball.  Besides, the new coach won't be able to help him because he doesn't know him, and then there's the question "why did you transfer your senior year?"

It is completely irrelevant whose "fault" it is. There has been a perception created, and your son is the only one in a position to possibly change it. However, I assume by now your son has played for many coaches, and all but the HS coach would give him a great recommendation, right?

As in all aspects of life, you build a reputation. Your son has a reputation which extends beyond his high school coach's opinion. If that reputation is sterling, the coach's opinion will be balanced against that.

There are lots of players in college who did not get along with their high school coaches.

While I don't know everyone story here I do know this.If ever there was a situation to have a bad situation its ours.As much of a a@#$ or good guy I could be I would never allow my son to have let things get to this point.It does not even matter if spring ball will be played or not for this coach.This situation must be fixed even if it comes down to the kid thinking hes getting screwed.My guy has had the same coach for 4 years he has 2 more years to go.The coach has no doughbt there have been times I felt like strangling him.Deservedly.There is no way I would ever allow 2016 to feel the same.I was at a tourney this summer 60 miles from home and when the gate guy saw my hat he asked if thats where I am from.When I said yes his next question was about the coach.People know if this is the coach.But that doesn't mean your guy has to play the game.I don't mean this literaly but if it takes cleaning his gutters and washing his car get it done and over with.Over my years I have met 3-4 people I could not STAND but I sucked it up for what ever reason and they are still some of my best friends we laugh about it now.2016 just recieved his first offer from probably the top program in midwest.They had/have no clue about head coach.have;nt talked to him.I am sure they will at some point but offer has already been made.I really think your son(maybe not you thats ok) will really feel better in the long run if he gets this situation buttoned up before school gets back.If he is as good as you say some travel team will put him on even if its late where you are...........