Short to zone...Long through zone

quote:

Originally posted by Chameleon:
The swing plane is not perp to the spine.

How then would you describe what's going on in these photos?













And note that none of these guys is doing what Stan is doing (because it's not physically possible).

I don't see any swing planes.

Never have seen one in still photos.

Perhaps better said that POC is perpendicular to spine

I would say start the hands and or barrel closer to the zone and extend through the ball, but hey, it's JMO.

quote:

Originally posted by Linear:
I notice instead of addressing the two scenarios that your cue creates, neither of them advantageous, you instead choose to puff your chest.

Please address how you get there quickly yet stay there longer.

BTW, my mother loved a 10" frying pan......should I use a 10"er even if there is a bigger pan now?

quote:

Originally posted by BlueDog:

quote:

I would say start the hands and or barrel closer to the zone and extend through the ball

Do this and you will accomplish two things......Late batspeed which is pretty much useless and no power......

Well...let's see...if you look at the clips of Bonds and Williams in Chameleon's post on my thread hand position you will see that they do just what I've stated. Now, if you want to take a tape measure and measure the distance from their hands to the strike zone it had better be a micrometer and if their hands and bathead don't extend through the ball then you will need to explain it to everyone with eyes. I hope to God no one pays for your advice, because you never get your points across.

Those clips are really good. Look at the back elbow of all the hitters hitting inside pitches and those hitting middle or outside pitches. Also, note the back foot at contact. Hips have punched but the foot seems to lag.

quote:

Originally posted by baseballpapa:
Those clips are really good. Look at the back elbow of all the hitters hitting inside pitches and those hitting middle or outside pitches. Also, note the back foot at contact. Hips have punched but the foot seems to lag.

Yes, sir! I totally agree!

quote:

Originally posted by PGStaff:
Back to hitting. I asked the question awhile back about Pujols and his hands. Linear had heard Pujols talk about the hands. My question was... was he talking about the hands at the beginning or at contact? I'm not sure Linear answered, but swingbuster mentioned something about Pujols talking about the hands relating to the load or something like that.

The reason for my question was... I've heard many hitters talk about their hands, but not often about the hands in the beginning or load of their swing. (That's the easy part to master) They usually are talking about getting their hands to the right spot at contact. (That's the hard part to master)

Let's face it, the hands must go to the right spot at contact... This to me is hitting with your hands! No matter whose method or rules you want to listen to. All methods still require the hands to be in the best position at contact whether they get there by posture or they get there by other means.

We all know that hand position has to adjust (somehow) depending on the location of the pitch! This to me, is taking your hands to the ball, even if your not really taking your hands to the ball. I believe there are hitters who simply think and hit with their hands and this causes their body to adjust and do the right things. The things that others study film and try to determine how these things happen. The video does not show the hitters thought process, just the results of that thought process.

PG,

You want a good DVD with hitters talking about hitting? Get HITTERS ON HITTING and you can hear it in their own words. Larry Walker's philosophy is a riot. Some people just have a God given gift of being able to hit and they have no idea how they do it, but others work very hard to get better and change their styles often to get out of slumps or to reach personal goals. Some study every aspect of hitting including pitchers tendancies. But, we all know hitting a baseball is NOT a science, it is a Theory or a bunch of Theories. It will never be perfected. Just like the golf swing, it will never be mastered. The thing that makes this topic, these threads, and this website so interesting and fun is that we all get to bounce our "theories" off of each other and maybe learn something that may help us or someone we teach get better. I know I have learned a few from you and a few others. Sometimes many of us believe the same things, but have different ways of putting them and sometimes that helps to get it across to someone else. For me personally, I would still like to get an answer from as many of you guys as possible as to what Ted Williams figured out and Barry Bonds copied to make them such good hitters. I guess I'm asking for you to analyze their swings. What's good, what's bad, why are they able to do it and not others. Yeah, I know, that's a lot to ask, but, hey!

quote:

Originally posted by BlueDog:

quote:

BlueDog,

Is that to say that the barrel of the bat is brought on plane by the top hand and wrist?

I don't think so.....But, I do believe the barrel is brought on plane by the arms....

This makes no sense. The elbow and shoulder can be moved up or down with no effect on the bat what so ever, but you can not raise or lower the hands without moving the bat.

Go to www.powerdrivesystem.com and watch video of the Power Drive Brace. "SHORT to the ball and through the zone is Good"

That's not the title to this thread batterupind.com

Short to zone...Long through zone !!!

Deemax, good to see you're carrying the torch and teaching others. God Bless and God's speed

My thoughts and prayers are still with you and you're family

peace
shep

Shep, where've you been guy?
I am going to pm you.

In many, I do mean many, ballparks my friend. Busy summer. PM back at cha coachric. peace shep

I have to admit something here. I really think this has made a huge difference in my son's hitting. A light bulb went on in a recent Tourney in july. He has been watching countless videos of hitters and we also have the Hitters on Hitting DVD. He is a student of the game and he also started reading Ted Wiliams book again( something I always read over and over as well). Anyhow last year he was quick to the zone and quick out of the zone. THis year he has focused on being quick to the zone and then long through the zone. Your hands play an important role in this and he has been hitting the ball on a line ever since. He has always been an inside out hittter with the other method but for the most part being long through the zone has helped him tremendously. It didn't happen over night and he has been working on his swing for two years.

Just some stuff I have witnessed personally with huge strides.

BB

I am glad to hear some of our conversations and on-the-job training as hitters and instructors has benefited someone here.

This information in this thread is the "Holy Grail" to hitting for those who seek, read, and put these techniques into action.

You "will" see results if you follow word for word what is posted in this thread at the highest level of competition.

My first post here in a while. My prayer is that all here on this board who have not been saved, will seek the gift of eternal life that is free for the taking. WWJD? peace out my friends> shep cares

quote:

Originally posted by bubandbran:
Listen, I played in the major leagues and played professonally for 11 years. I have played along side Miguel Tejada, Todd Helton, Miguel Cabrera, David Ortiz, just to name a few. Edgar Martinez told me personally in Spring Training to use my hands to stay through the ball with my barrell. When you are quick in the zone and then quick out, you top a lot of balls, which produce weak ground balls. Staying through the ball produces back sping line drives. It is a technique, that professional players work hard to perfect. But a young player can do it and work on it as well. Good luck.

Great topic and great advice.

(Even this method has detractors)

.

Chameleon,

It would be an honor for you to paste some of that great hitting instruction from a couple of the other threads into this thread to go along with what we've already covered here. It would be welcomed! Good morning board. peace, shep

What's up fellas? peace

John 3:16

If you want to know what Major League Baseball looks for when evaluating talent, the following information on the key essentials to hitting, I learned from MLBSB Scout Development School. I have applied that knowledge to my scouting, film analysis, instruction, discussions on messageboards and heated discussions on various hitters being considered in many decision making arenas.

This is the Holy Grail according to the people in charge of professional baseball who hold the keys.
Why would you want to learn from the others???
The following are the desired traits of a prospect:
1)Strength
2)Starting the bat
3)Full arm extension and follow through after making contact
4)Head stays on ball until point of contact
5)Fearless, tail stays up at plate
6)Short stride
7)Top hand is evident upon making contact and follow through
8)Head of bat does not lag
9)Aggressive, hits first good pitch
10)Short stroke, ball jumps off bat
11)Bat goes to ball with arms and hands matching plane
12)Arms and hands make last nanosecond adjustments to ensure contact with sweetness.

If you combine attributes #3 and #10, there you have it; short to zone...long through zone.

Let us now examine these desired attributes and ask ourselves questions about each.

1)Strength-Is the hitter built like a tank or natural with an excellent baseball related physical conditioning program? Is the hitter tight as a drum or does the hitter have flexibility with whiplike motions to go along with that strength?

2)Starting the bat-Does the hitter have a methodical rhythm or movement when he starts the bat or does the hitter have a dead bat(doesn't get it started)?

3)Full arm extension and follow through after contact-Does the hitter stay long through the zone or does the hitter chop and stop?

4)Head stays on ball until point of contact-Does the head remain perfectly still or does the head move as body rotates around center as body comes forward by turning? Does the hitter do any head pulling?

5)Fearless, tail stays up at plate-Does the hitter stand his ground in batter's box or does he show fear against pitchers with ABOVE AVG VEL?

6)Short stride-Does the hitter stay in the center of the carousel, or does the hitter take a long stride or lunge?

7)Top hand is evident upon making contact and follow through-Does the top hand snap firmly at point of contact? examples: Robinson and Rose clips in this thread.

8)Head of bat does not lag-Does the hitter slice the ball or square up to ball at contact?

9)Aggressive, hits first good pitch-We covered this.

10)Short stroke, ball jumps off bat-Does the ball sound loud and ringing knock off the bat even though hitter is short to zone?

11)Bat goes to ball with arms and hands matching plane-We covered this.

12)Arms and hands make last nanosecond adjustments to ensure contact with sweetness. As Chameleon puts it, "a running start while finding the desired slot after bat tipping."-Chameleon

PLEASE KEEP IN MIND, THIS IS ONLY "just" THE BEGINNING!!! peace shep

That's what they look for?

What do they teach?

quote:

Why would you want to learn from the others???

Excellent point Chameleon and well-taken. If a player desires to be sought by MLB, if he needs work on some of these desired characteristics MLB looks for, he better attain the teaching from somewhere and "get" the necessary teaching to demonstrate those desired attributes.

It's after that hurdle that the next level can be attained in Player Development within an organization.

Those initial 12 keys are just the beginning and Chameleon, you have much to offer those who reach the next level. peace shep

peace
shep

quote:

Originally posted by Shepster:

1)Strength
2)Starting the bat

4)Head stays on ball until point of contact
5)Fearless, tail stays up at plate

8)Head of bat does not lag
9)Aggressive, hits first good pitch

11)Bat goes to ball with arms and hands matching plane

The Shepmeister!!!

Just picking out a few of my favorites.

ITS!!! How ya doing up there?

That future BlueJay finished strong in the NY Penn League this season. Tell "D" I asked about him and keep it up! Maybe I'll get to finally meet him down here in Dunedin this spring in the Florida State League

Enjoy the ride Paul, he will be there before you know it! (To the Show, That is!) peace shep

http://www.shep1.hittingillustrated.com/joefullbat.mpeg

What did you all think about the above clip of Shoeless Joe Jackson? Maybe that's why he turned to betting. No one in the background is even watching him take batting practice! They're all turned the other way facing up into the stands!

The ole black and white retro clips are great Quincy. Appreciate you sharing. Many of them are very revealing, indeed.

The swing has come a "long" way, from then till now! That's for sure! peace shep

I appreciate your wealth of clips and photos.

Like the old saying,

"We have to know where we have been to understand where we are in order to have an idea of where we can go from here."

.

Thank you Quincy. I'll share everything I got, and it won't cost anybody a nickel.

It's an honor to be in a position to help others without worrying about where the next meal is coming from, if you know what I mean.

If you have enough to eat and keep a roof over your head, that's all you need to give back to the game of baseball. The reward will come later when your storehouse is opened by the King of Kings

peace
shep

Good MourningMorning Red Sox fans !!! How did you guys and gals like that late inning "Trot" action? Just kidding ladies and gentlemen(especially wayback Noreaster). Please forgive me. It will be tough to beat the Red Sox in this ALCS series, especially several times. I really and truly don't see that happening with the likes of Beckett and the others.

Just had a few minutes before I head out and thought I would share a little hitting knowledge about what I think is the proper sequence of building resistance for the greatest amount of batspeed which results in the greatest amount of power applied to the ball right before contact when the wrists are getting ready to torque and the top hand is getting in a position to roll or snap off the pole. This is in reply to all the brotherly love in this hitting forum, lately. I'll try and make this understandable without inviting too much criticism from the cyberspace gallery and gurus.

Here it is! Some free information to consider for all you hitters out there! Hope you can take something out of the following writing that will make hitting more enjoyable!

The baseball swing is a complex, unnatural motion that can only be perfected by correctly applying the proper unlocking sequence of the strongest muscles in the body through practice and drills. What is important to remember is that there is no one ideal swing that works for everyone, but all high level swings have similiar, yet unexact styles . Watch any Major League baseball game and you’ll see as many slight variations of swings, as there are hitters. The first hurdle is figuring out a way to attain maximum efficiency with what you have to work with to get the most out of your approach in the batters box as a hitter. This hurdle includes how to create the most power and batspeed that the body of each individual hitter is capable of producing. This can be accomplished by using the lowerbody as the foundation by which the hitter can create the greatest amount of resistance. It's the mass of the strongest muscles of the lowerbody that dictates this adaptation of great hitters who have tremendous power and currently maintain spots on MLB rosters.

Let us investigate the bat tipping and float of the bat with the running start, while finding the desired slot as dictated by hand-eye coordination. Believe it or not, your arms do not start the action of the swing. Instead, a proper sequence should begin in the feet, legs and hips. To begin transferring your body weight and coiling the upperbody in the initial "first movement" (and thus increase your resistance for the greatest amount of power), the feet, knees, thighs and hips should all begin moving forward. This sequence should occur with the feet first, knees, then thighs and hips. The motion should be quick, smooth, and yet deliberate enough to give the hitter a feel of a firm frontside to carry out the forward momentum of the upperbody as it "uncoils" with the greatest amount of resistance and strength provided by the lowerbody.


There are, of course, other factors that come into play when swinging a baseball bat, but without the strength of the lowerbody you will always be "all arms". Remember that your hands are only part of your body and have their role, especially when finding the path of the baseball which determines the correct slot during float as hand-eye coordination sends its final messages. Remember to keep that head as still as possible throughout the swing with eyes focused on the ball so that the path can be determined most effectively. Then, all of the sudden... it's...there's a drive...deep CF...that ball is out of here!!! Hopefully, you will hear this more times than not!! peace shep

quote:

Good Mourning Red Sox fans !!! How did you guys and gals like that late inning "Trot" action?

I feel like a Yankee fan today.

Go Patriots! lol

New England is still undefeated!!!

D'Backs down 0-3.

Big game today for the Red Sox. Good luck noreaster.

CLE is trying really hard to play spoiler for the Red Sox Nation, but I still don't see it happening. Red Sox in six. Who needs Murphy's Law when you have Theo's Law

Be back tonight. peace shep

Ya' think the Red Sox need Ted Williams in the lineup tonight?

Who needs Ted when you have Ortiz and Ramirez

Here's a little flashback retro footage for the board's enjoyment from my desktop to yours R.I.P Ted and BBscout
peace shep

SHEP, Tribe in six games, and quick to and long out is the credo, remember the picture.

The fence drill says it all, the back elbow at impact

Quote by OLDSLUGGER8: "quick to and long out is the credo".

Yea, you're right. Need to redirect to topic at hand for the sake of the hitters who are here to learn.

Enjoy the game slugger I really have no horse in this race between American League hopefuls

peace
shep

BLUEDOG POSTED THIS BEAUTIFUL ILLUSTRATION A FEW YEARS BACK. IT IS EDUCATIONAL AND WORTHY OF A SECOND LOOK BY ALL. YOU MAY WANT TO PULL SOME READING GLASSES OUT TO SEE THE FINE PRINT. IT'S WORTH FURTHER INVESTIGATION HITTERS!!!!!!!

Seems like an eternity for these hitters

quote:

Originally posted by Shepster:
BLUEDOG POSTED THIS BEAUTIFUL ILLUSTRATION A FEW YEARS BACK. IT IS EDUCATIONAL AND WORTHY OF A SECOND LOOK BY ALL. YOU MAY WANT TO PULL SOME READING GLASSES OUT TO SEE THE FINE PRINT. IT'S WORTH FURTHER INVESTIGATION HITTERS!!!!!!!

It would be intersting to see if Posada's swing matched this chart. I would doubt it.

I have a challenge for the board concerning starting pitcher for the Red Sox Nation, Tim Wakefield, and opposing CLE hitters. See if the following applies to knuckleballer, Wakefield, from the hitter's viewpoint tonight See writing below and tell the board if you agree, or disagree, and state your case. Please read the following baseball lifers before deciding your final position on this matter of the "dancing baseball".

As the hitter sends messages to the central nervous system, with hand-eye coordination serving as the guide to find the desired slot, the body continues to make late nanosecond adjustments as the bat finds what the brain recognizes as changes in the angle and flight pattern of the "dancing baseball".

While the bat floats, the pitched knuckleball moves in every direction imaginable, and floats too. That's the reason some hitters just can't hit a knuckleball. Once the hitter has committed to the swing in a specific path of pitch flight, the body reacts accordingly, in order to apply the best swing possible toward the baseball at contact. As we know, there is a very limited area on a woodbat that provides that hard-knock The diligent hitter has learned this through muscle memory, a few broken bats(sometimes thousands), and reacts subconsciously in order to position the bat on that limited area, or more widely used expression "sweet spot" at contact.

Sometimes this means taking the arms outside the normal trained range,(or circular path) and sometimes, it's because the hitter's trying to make late adjustments with the body changing position by reaching, bending or dipping. This usually provides the audience with an entertaining array of feeble attempts to prevent embarrassment. Here's the punchline question: Do CLE Tribe hitters stay within normal ranges of there swing or do they come out of there normal ranges against knuckeball pitcher Wakefield tonight? Life is like a box of chocolates, you never know what you're gonna get

Peace,
Shep

Good comedy watching first timers against the knuckler.

They should maintain their normal swing but look to drive the ball to the opposite field.

If batters look to hit up the middle or pull, they will look extra foolish.

.

quote:

Originally posted by Shepster:
I have a challenge for the board concerning starting pitcher for the Red Sox Nation, Tim Wakefield, and opposing CLE hitters. See if the following applies to knuckleballer, Wakefield, from the hitter's viewpoint tonight See writing below and tell the board if you agree, or disagree, and state your case. Please read the following baseball lifers before deciding your final position on this matter of the "dancing baseball".

As the hitter sends messages to the central nervous system, with hand-eye coordination serving as the guide to find the desired slot, the body continues to make late nanosecond adjustments as the bat finds what the brain recognizes as changes in the angle and flight pattern of the "dancing baseball".

While the bat floats, the pitched knuckleball moves in every direction imaginable, and floats too. That's the reason some hitters just can't hit a knuckleball. Once the hitter has committed to the swing in a specific path of pitch flight, the body reacts accordingly, in order to apply the best swing possible toward the baseball at contact. As we know, there is a very limited area on a woodbat that provides that hard-knock The diligent hitter has learned this through muscle memory, a few broken bats(sometimes thousands), and reacts subconsciously in order to position the bat on that limited area, or more widely used expression "sweet spot" at contact.

Sometimes this means taking the arms outside the normal trained range,(or circular path) and sometimes, it's because the hitter's trying to make late adjustments with the body changing position by reaching, bending or dipping. This usually provides the audience with an entertaining array of feeble attempts to prevent embarrassment. Here's the punchline question: Do CLE Tribe hitters stay within normal ranges of there swing or do they come out of there normal ranges against knuckeball pitcher Wakefield tonight? Life is like a box of chocolates, you never know what you're gonna get

Peace,
Shep

The longer they waited, the better they got. I think most MLB hitters would have trouble with a 57mph pitch even if it didn't dance, lol. Well...maybe not if you threw it every pitch. Best way to hit a knuckleball, IMO, wait as long as possible and see how far you can hit it!

The game started out well for Wakefield. That 5th inning wall was devistating for Red Sox fans. It seems like the curse is back on for Boston. If they win game five with Beckett, what then? Looking like the Indians and Rockies today, but you never know until the last out.

Shep, you were right about Chamberlain. He should have been used as a SP(Starting Pitcher). The Yankees would still be playing if management would have recognized this a couple of months back. What a difference he would have made in the short best-of-five series with the Indians. Hope you don't mind, I borrowed one of your avatars

Longtime Player Now Longtime Observer

No problem at all HOF1962. Good to see you back and I appreciate your vote of confidence in my observations of Joba Chamberlain.

You're right about the Red Sox. They don't act too worried about the position they find themselves in...I would be a little more concerned down 3 games to "1". peace my fellow brother shep

About the game last night. I had high hopes for Wakefield's start and somewhat disappointed the wheels came off in the 5th for the Red Sox pitching. I dozed off after that barrage of bombs by the Tribesters peace shep