Anyone for breakfast?
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Anyone for breakfast?
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Anyone for breakfast?
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Liberal? There was nothing liberal said.
Wragg gave an analysis that basically said, there are messed up people, find them quick and lock them up. If anything, that's a conservative message. Thinking that Sandusky is a poor *** who is wired wrong isn't liberal...it's accurate, like it or not. You can hate what he did, you can even hate him for what he did, but the messed up way that he is, could easily been any one of us, and I don't think being thankful that it wasn't me, and having some understanding that it could happen to anyone, makes me liberal. I'm not a religious man, but many people would call that being a good Christian.
The rest of his message went on to wonder how people who know, can live with themselves.
Wragg gave an analysis that basically said, there are messed up people, find them quick and lock them up. If anything, that's a conservative message. Thinking that Sandusky is a poor *** who is wired wrong isn't liberal...it's accurate, like it or not. You can hate what he did, you can even hate him for what he did, but the messed up way that he is, could easily been any one of us, and I don't think being thankful that it wasn't me, and having some understanding that it could happen to anyone, makes me liberal. I'm not a religious man, but many people would call that being a good Christian.
The rest of his message went on to wonder how people who know, can live with themselves.
quote:Originally posted by CPLZ:
Liberal? There was nothing liberal said.
Wragg gave an analysis that basically said, there are messed up people, find them quick and lock them up. If anything, that's a conservative message. Thinking that Sandusky is a poor *** who is wired wrong isn't liberal...it's accurate, like it or not. You can hate what he did, you can even hate him for what he did, but the messed up way that he is, could easily been any one of us, and I don't think being thankful that it wasn't me, and having some understanding that it could happen to anyone, makes me liberal. I'm not a religious man, but many people would call that being a good Christian.
The rest of his message went on to wonder how people who know, can live with themselves.
That is the way I read the original post - the liberal reply was uncalled for - just a reminder to posters who think liberal is a bad word - it is not, plus I'm a liberal and I'm NOT disgusting.
Anyway, looks like PSU football is going to be slammed. I hope the people actively involved in the cover up are brought to justice as well. Don't forget the rumor mill was so active at PSU concerning Sandusky that the ice cream shop had a special visual treat named after him. Now that's DISGUSTING.
I didn't think the death penalty for the program was the right thing to do, but after reading about the intricate maneuvers, and how Paterno manipulated situations for the protection of the football program, I've changed my mind. They have to completely rid themselves of the "legacy" in order to move forward.
“I’ve never seen anything as egregious as this in terms of overall conduct and behavior inside of a university,” Emmert told Smiley about the situation at Penn State. “I hope never to see it again. What the appropriate penalties are, if there are determinations of violations, we’ll have to decide…
“I don’t want to take anything off the table. The fact is, this is completely different than an impermissible benefits scandal that happened at SMU or anything else we’ve dealt with. This is as systemic a cultural problem as it is a football problem.
“There have been people who’ve said this wasn’t a football scandal. Well, it was more than a football scandal. Much more than a football scandal. It was that, and much more. We’ll have to figure out exactly what the right penalties are. I don’t know that past precedent makes particularly good sense in this case because it’s really an unprecedented problem.”
“Again, I don’t want to prejudge where we will wind up with penalties, but right now is a very special moment in the history of the NCAA,” Emmert said. “There’s an enormous amount of political courage… to do the right thing on a variety of cases, and we’ve been demonstrating that again and again on a variety of cases. Whatever penalty structure is put in place again, if there’s findings of violations of our rules, the decisions will not be based upon whether people want to be courageous or not.”
- NCAA President Mark Emmert, interview with PBS’s Tavis Smiley
“I don’t want to take anything off the table. The fact is, this is completely different than an impermissible benefits scandal that happened at SMU or anything else we’ve dealt with. This is as systemic a cultural problem as it is a football problem.
“There have been people who’ve said this wasn’t a football scandal. Well, it was more than a football scandal. Much more than a football scandal. It was that, and much more. We’ll have to figure out exactly what the right penalties are. I don’t know that past precedent makes particularly good sense in this case because it’s really an unprecedented problem.”
“Again, I don’t want to prejudge where we will wind up with penalties, but right now is a very special moment in the history of the NCAA,” Emmert said. “There’s an enormous amount of political courage… to do the right thing on a variety of cases, and we’ve been demonstrating that again and again on a variety of cases. Whatever penalty structure is put in place again, if there’s findings of violations of our rules, the decisions will not be based upon whether people want to be courageous or not.”
- NCAA President Mark Emmert, interview with PBS’s Tavis Smiley
I guess I need to turn on my Google Greek translator tool.
quote:55mom said....I didn't think the death penalty for the program was the right thing to do, but after reading about the intricate maneuvers, and how Paterno manipulated situations for the protection of the football program, I've changed my mind. They have to completely rid themselves of the "legacy" in order to move forward.
I'm right there with you, 55mom. At first, I didn't think there was a need for the NCAA death penalty. After reading the report, I changed my mind 180 degrees. It was clear (to me) there was an instituitional coordination to cover it up, and protect the cash cow. Shut it down.
quote:Originally posted by Bolts-Coach-PR:
“I’ve never seen anything as egregious as this in terms of overall conduct and behavior inside of a university,” Emmert told Smiley about the situation at Penn State. “I hope never to see it again. What the appropriate penalties are, if there are determinations of violations, we’ll have to decide…
“I don’t want to take anything off the table. The fact is, this is completely different than an impermissible benefits scandal that happened at SMU or anything else we’ve dealt with. This is as systemic a cultural problem as it is a football problem.
“There have been people who’ve said this wasn’t a football scandal. Well, it was more than a football scandal. Much more than a football scandal. It was that, and much more. We’ll have to figure out exactly what the right penalties are. I don’t know that past precedent makes particularly good sense in this case because it’s really an unprecedented problem.”
“Again, I don’t want to prejudge where we will wind up with penalties, but right now is a very special moment in the history of the NCAA,” Emmert said. “There’s an enormous amount of political courage… to do the right thing on a variety of cases, and we’ve been demonstrating that again and again on a variety of cases. Whatever penalty structure is put in place again, if there’s findings of violations of our rules, the decisions will not be based upon whether people want to be courageous or not.”
- NCAA President Mark Emmert, interview with PBS’s Tavis Smiley
It appears that if Emmert has any power, PSU has played its last football game for awhile.
First...on the point that sexual predators can't help themselves, as someone who has investigated, interviewed and arrested many......this seems very true.
Second, convicted sexual offenders receive some of the harshest sentences given out in the Pennsylvania court system....some murderers receive lesser sentences. It is not out of the realm of possibility to be a very young person and receive consecutive sentencing that amounts to life in prison.
Third, violent sexual predators(a special category) receive lifetime meghan's law registration which is designed to monitor their whereabouts and notify neighborhoods of their presence but falls short of protecting anyone from being the victim of a re-offender. Fact is, there is not enough money to incarcerate them forever.
Check your own state meghan's law offender registry. They are usually sorted by county. You will be surprised how many of them are in your back yard.
There are even some very famous people you might know to be found there. And isn't the point to be learned from all this, that nothing replaces a family that communicates with their kids and creates an environment where they would report this type of activity and you would likely notice changes in their behavior?
As for the Penn State situation...there are about to be many more innocent victims. The entire economy of State College relies on the fall home game schedule......bars, restaurants, hotels, concessions, parking, security, merchandising.....all gone.
Second, convicted sexual offenders receive some of the harshest sentences given out in the Pennsylvania court system....some murderers receive lesser sentences. It is not out of the realm of possibility to be a very young person and receive consecutive sentencing that amounts to life in prison.
Third, violent sexual predators(a special category) receive lifetime meghan's law registration which is designed to monitor their whereabouts and notify neighborhoods of their presence but falls short of protecting anyone from being the victim of a re-offender. Fact is, there is not enough money to incarcerate them forever.
Check your own state meghan's law offender registry. They are usually sorted by county. You will be surprised how many of them are in your back yard.
There are even some very famous people you might know to be found there. And isn't the point to be learned from all this, that nothing replaces a family that communicates with their kids and creates an environment where they would report this type of activity and you would likely notice changes in their behavior?
As for the Penn State situation...there are about to be many more innocent victims. The entire economy of State College relies on the fall home game schedule......bars, restaurants, hotels, concessions, parking, security, merchandising.....all gone.
quote:Originally posted by CPLZ:
Liberal? There was nothing liberal said.
Wragg gave an analysis that basically said, there are messed up people, find them quick and lock them up. If anything, that's a conservative message. Thinking that Sandusky is a poor *** who is wired wrong isn't liberal...it's accurate, like it or not. You can hate what he did, you can even hate him for what he did, but the messed up way that he is, could easily been any one of us, and I don't think being thankful that it wasn't me, and having some understanding that it could happen to anyone, makes me liberal. I'm not a religious man, but many people would call that being a good Christian.
The rest of his message went on to wonder how people who know, can live with themselves.
Thanks for reading more carefully CPLZ - that was exactly my point. I'm not qualified nor patient enough to sit around trying to understand "crazy". And, although its not very compassionate nor liberal("Not that there's anything wrong with that sort of thing..."), I'm not too interested in wanting to figure him out so that you can fix it. I honestly don't think you can.
The PSU leadership, on the other hand...that's worth some thought.
P.S.: CD, Bear, and Ann Coulter ...pleeeeze consider not trying to carry the banner around for Conservative values?? Or at least maybe a little less Jerkwater, a little more mainstream if you just have to? Seriously, I've got friends out there who know I'm a conservative...
I consider myself a liberal (moderate) however in no way would I invite Sandusky into my home to rehabilitate him. Also like to note, that I didn't vote for Obama.
I am not sure why these comments were made, and some other comments by others. I gave up my moderating duties a while back because I was under the impression that moderators have to respond in a certain manner for community standards. I said something to offend someone, I was never told who, what, why where, etc.
Just for the record '15Dad, regardless of who made the above statement, I consider it offensive.
I am not sure why these comments were made, and some other comments by others. I gave up my moderating duties a while back because I was under the impression that moderators have to respond in a certain manner for community standards. I said something to offend someone, I was never told who, what, why where, etc.
Just for the record '15Dad, regardless of who made the above statement, I consider it offensive.
Moderators (me in this case) make mistakes sometimes. I shouldn't have posted what I did and I have cleaned up this thread to remove the offensive material. Sincerely apologize. Even moderators can have their posts moderated when they are justifiably called out by the hsbbweb community 
CD,
Thanks for coming clean. No worries. However, it would have been much more salacious if there were denials, a coverup, and a former head of FBI investigation.
Thanks for coming clean. No worries. However, it would have been much more salacious if there were denials, a coverup, and a former head of FBI investigation.
The punishment for Penn State should be looked at from 2 perspectives. The first being holding Penn State accountable for this incredible lack of morals and ethics. It must also be viewed in the larger picture we know as the NCAA. The punishment for both the institution as well as the individuals involved must be seen as a clearly defined statement/warning to others out there that it is absolutely imperative that those charged with protecting kids do so. First because it is the right thing to do but also that any failure to do so will be met with incredibly harsh punishment.
1.Kill the program at Penn State.
2.Try the enablers of Sandusky as accessories.
3.Send those convicted to serious prisons for serious time.
4.Get rid of the statue. It's an affront to decency.
Yes, many innocent people associated with Penn State will be adversely affected if the NCAA issues the death penalty but, isn't the protection of innocent kids more important?
It doesn't get any more serious than this!
1.Kill the program at Penn State.
2.Try the enablers of Sandusky as accessories.
3.Send those convicted to serious prisons for serious time.
4.Get rid of the statue. It's an affront to decency.
Yes, many innocent people associated with Penn State will be adversely affected if the NCAA issues the death penalty but, isn't the protection of innocent kids more important?
It doesn't get any more serious than this!
I've heard some talk about the death penalty for Penn State football.
Problem with penalizing (death penalty) Penn State is that you also penalize everyone else that is on their schedule. This is especially true for their away games. Why should Virginia, Illinois, Iowa, Purdue, Nebraska, lose millions on a home game because of Penn State? It affects workers, concessionaires, security, and everything associated with a big game.
The death penalty wouldn't be fair to the Penn State players and others that had nothing to do with all of this. It would be extremely unfair to other programs that are on the schedule.
I'm all for penalizing, but without hurting those who had nothing to do with this. I would rather see them take away bowl games for a decade than cancelling their schedule. Taking away the bowl games would make them a bottom dweller. Still too bad for those already at Penn State, but recruiting top players would get real tough.
Just too many people in leadership positions involved in this mess. That's why the college has to be punished IMO. Other colleges have suffered penalties based on one person. Seems like there are many leaders involved in this one and the crime is far greater and sicker.
Problem with penalizing (death penalty) Penn State is that you also penalize everyone else that is on their schedule. This is especially true for their away games. Why should Virginia, Illinois, Iowa, Purdue, Nebraska, lose millions on a home game because of Penn State? It affects workers, concessionaires, security, and everything associated with a big game.
The death penalty wouldn't be fair to the Penn State players and others that had nothing to do with all of this. It would be extremely unfair to other programs that are on the schedule.
I'm all for penalizing, but without hurting those who had nothing to do with this. I would rather see them take away bowl games for a decade than cancelling their schedule. Taking away the bowl games would make them a bottom dweller. Still too bad for those already at Penn State, but recruiting top players would get real tough.
Just too many people in leadership positions involved in this mess. That's why the college has to be punished IMO. Other colleges have suffered penalties based on one person. Seems like there are many leaders involved in this one and the crime is far greater and sicker.
quote:Originally posted by PGStaff:
I've heard some talk about the death penalty for Penn State football.
Problem with penalizing (death penalty) Penn State is that you also penalize everyone else that is on their schedule. This is especially true for their away games. Why should Virginia, Illinois, Iowa, Purdue, Nebraska, lose millions on a home game because of Penn State? It affects workers, concessionaires, security, and everything associated with a big game.
The death penalty wouldn't be fair to the Penn State players and others that had nothing to do with all of this. It would be extremely unfair to other programs that are on the schedule.
I'm all for penalizing, but without hurting those who had nothing to do with this. I would rather see them take away bowl games for a decade than cancelling their schedule. Taking away the bowl games would make them a bottom dweller. Still too bad for those already at Penn State, but recruiting top players would get real tough.
Just too many people in leadership positions involved in this mess. That's why the college has to be punished IMO. Other colleges have suffered penalties based on one person. Seems like there are many leaders involved in this one and the crime is far greater and sicker.
Well, as LT said in "Full Metal Jacket," "It's a **** sandwich and we'll all have to take a bite."
Yep, this is going to affect those who had no part of it. Unfortunately, at this point, that needs to be secondary to ensuring accountability for what has happened and preventing such an enabling institutional environment in the future. If these secondary effects can be mitigated, great; but the emphasis cannot be on them at this point.
You could ...
1-change out leadership (trustees on down)
2-pursue those criminally that should be
3-yank a bunch of football scholarships
4-ban them from TV
5-ban them from bowl games
6-suspend some portion of Big 10 revenues
Hurts them financially, humbles them, addresses those criminally that should be, sets the stage for needed cultural change. And, doesn't let them pretend to be martyrs...which to this day SMU still pretends to be.
1-change out leadership (trustees on down)
2-pursue those criminally that should be
3-yank a bunch of football scholarships
4-ban them from TV
5-ban them from bowl games
6-suspend some portion of Big 10 revenues
Hurts them financially, humbles them, addresses those criminally that should be, sets the stage for needed cultural change. And, doesn't let them pretend to be martyrs...which to this day SMU still pretends to be.
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quote:Yep, this is going to affect those who had no part of it. Unfortunately, at this point, that needs to be secondary to ensuring accountability for what has happened and preventing such an enabling institutional environment in the future. If these secondary effects can be mitigated, great; but the emphasis cannot be on them at this point.
So close it down. This went way beyond the football program. They were covering up lots of crimes; not just these committed by Sandusky.
quote:Originally posted by Bulldog 19:quote:Yep, this is going to affect those who had no part of it. Unfortunately, at this point, that needs to be secondary to ensuring accountability for what has happened and preventing such an enabling institutional environment in the future. If these secondary effects can be mitigated, great; but the emphasis cannot be on them at this point.
So close it down. This went way beyond the football program. They were covering up lots of crimes; not just these committed by Sandusky.
Yep.
There will be some closed door meetings at the NCAA and Penn State football will be shut down. Holy moly they were raping little boys in the football locker room shower. As Bob Costas said, "If Penn State is playing football in September, something is very wrong."
Anything short of the death penalty is not adequate.
How 'bout burning at the Stake? include the statue for smelter!
Governor - Penn State was not fully cooperative:
http://www.nytimes.com/reuters...overnor.html?_r=1&hp
http://www.nytimes.com/reuters...overnor.html?_r=1&hp
I really hope it get melted down...not put in someone's attic only to show up on ebay sometime in the future!
They could move the statue from one state institution to another.
If they are going to give Penn State football the death penalty, they need to do it now, in the interest of all those who need to make decisions. This thing effects many people who had nothing to do with the crimes both at Penn State and those on their schedule. Dragging it out will only make things worse.
What about the other sports at Penn State? The AD and President were involved in the cover up? Should they eliminate Baseball? Seems like a lot of innocent people are going to get hurt.
What about the other sports at Penn State? The AD and President were involved in the cover up? Should they eliminate Baseball? Seems like a lot of innocent people are going to get hurt.
It's like asking what time is it, and the response is how to make a watch.
Simple Yes/No question.
Simple Yes/No question.
quote:Originally posted by PGStaff:
If they are going to give Penn State football the death penalty, they need to do it now, in the interest of all those who need to make decisions. This thing effects many people who had nothing to do with the crimes both at Penn State and those on their schedule. Dragging it out will only make things worse.
What about the other sports at Penn State? The AD and President were involved in the cover up? Should they eliminate Baseball? Seems like a lot of innocent people are going to get hurt.
Authorities should do what is needed at the appropriate time. I'm not sure dealing with Penn State in a considerate manner should be a high priority by authorities. If Penn State had dealt with past and potential Sandusky victims in a considerate manner, then the institution would not be in this hot mess. The NCAA didn't start this or pick the time frame. I sure hope they finish it, though.
PGStaff,
"Seems like a lot of innocent people are going to get hurt."
That started in 1998! We only know about 10 of them.
It's taken 14 years for those kids to see any justice.
Anyone currently associated with the school is free to go or stay. their choice.
The kids that were raped didn't get a choice.
Procesutors, NCAA & Dept of Educ need to take as long as is neccessary.
"Seems like a lot of innocent people are going to get hurt."
That started in 1998! We only know about 10 of them.
It's taken 14 years for those kids to see any justice.
Anyone currently associated with the school is free to go or stay. their choice.
The kids that were raped didn't get a choice.
Procesutors, NCAA & Dept of Educ need to take as long as is neccessary.
I'm sure this is just a coincidence but long-time Penn State assistant coach, Second Mile administrator and old friend of Jerry Sandusky- Joe Sarra- passed away yesterday. From what I've heard, he's had dementia for a while. What struck me as odd is that at least three of the most famous and successful players he coached are not mentioned in his obituary.
In another story, here is an article from a local paper of an interview with an un-named Penn State coach, who was there 20 years ago. Some things he claims to have seen, involving Jerry Sandusky, left him scratching his head. It all clicked when Sandusky was arrested.
Lessons to be learned in PSU scandal
I guess he does not want his name printed because he believes the Penn State illuminati (I don't know what else to call it) are still powerful enough to make things difficult in his professional life.
I think the Penn State story will get even deeper. It may even go beyond the university.
In another story, here is an article from a local paper of an interview with an un-named Penn State coach, who was there 20 years ago. Some things he claims to have seen, involving Jerry Sandusky, left him scratching his head. It all clicked when Sandusky was arrested.
Lessons to be learned in PSU scandal
I guess he does not want his name printed because he believes the Penn State illuminati (I don't know what else to call it) are still powerful enough to make things difficult in his professional life.
I think the Penn State story will get even deeper. It may even go beyond the university.
quote:What about the other sports at Penn State? The AD and President were involved in the cover up? Should they eliminate Baseball? Seems like a lot of innocent people are going to get hurt.
What is going to happen is that in order to cure the disease, they are going to have to kill the patient. If you'll take a minute to review Penn State's 2010-2011 Operating Expenditures you'll see that the football program and the basketball program are the ones that generate an income. Other than concession, radio/tv and stadium game day operations......in other words there are many student athletes that are going to suffer as a result. They spent 85 million on sports and the football program alone generated 40 million in income. Take that away ..... The baseball program has about a 1 million dollar budget and generates 187 thousand in income.
quote:What about the other sports at Penn State? The AD and President were involved in the cover up? Should they eliminate Baseball? Seems like a lot of innocent people are going to get hurt.
Shut it all down. If football deserves the death penalty, then shutter the entire campus. Close it down. This went beyond football and unfortunately the entire school was involved indirectly.
quote:Shut it all down.
That's absurd. There are several gov't officials on the board of trustees. Want to shut down the whole state?
quote:That's absurd. There are several gov't officials on the board of trustees. Want to shut down the whole state?
Why does football have to take all the blame? And why do all the athletes of the other sports have to fall too? Punish those who were involved and move on. Death penalty for one group should mean significant penalty for all groups involved. There were/are a lot more problems than just at the football level. This is just the national news because it's football.
quote:Originally posted by Bulldog 19:quote:That's absurd. There are several gov't officials on the board of trustees. Want to shut down the whole state?
Why does football have to take all the blame? And why do all the athletes of the other sports have to fall too? Punish those who were involved and move on. Death penalty for one group should mean significant penalty for all groups involved. There were/are a lot more problems than just at the football level. This is just the national news because it's football.
This would never would have happened if it wasn't football.
Warning... This may sound stupid.
If the victims are the major concern regarding the penalty... Why not get creative. Take all the profit that football produces and give it to a fund set up for the victims.
If we asked the victims and their families would they prefer giving the death penalty or recieving millions each year, what would they choose?
The death penalty doesn't do anything to help the victims. Not sure anything can ever replace what happened to them. So in addition to all the upcoming law suits, why not at least make the victims even wealthier at the expense of Penn State.
That way the innocent aren't punished as much and the victims basically benefit from Penn State football.
If the victims are the major concern regarding the penalty... Why not get creative. Take all the profit that football produces and give it to a fund set up for the victims.
If we asked the victims and their families would they prefer giving the death penalty or recieving millions each year, what would they choose?
The death penalty doesn't do anything to help the victims. Not sure anything can ever replace what happened to them. So in addition to all the upcoming law suits, why not at least make the victims even wealthier at the expense of Penn State.
That way the innocent aren't punished as much and the victims basically benefit from Penn State football.
I don't think that's stupid at all, PG. I'll get jumped on for this. But, people don't care about the victims....they want public hangings.
quote:Originally posted by Tx-Husker:
I don't think that's stupid at all, PG. I'll get jumped on for this. But, people don't care about the victims....they want public hangings.
NCAA views punishment as prevention. Their desire is to make sure every other institution takes notice and behaves in a manner to avoid the pain that will be inflicted on Penn State. They want to make sure that at the very least, no one in NCAA sports covers up the type of behavior that occurred at Penn State.
Compensation for the victims is not under NCAA's jurisdiction. There will be a number of civil cases to address that.
Yes, but let the kids transfer without penalty.