Should Penn State Football be shut down?

quote:

This would never would have happened if it wasn't football.

http://articles.chicagotribune...nne-clery-penn-state

Try again.

quote:

Carter said DOE investigators would likely find years of discrepancies like those he found when he worked with Penn State as part of a security watchdog group founded by Clery's parents.

Carter said he met with considerable resistance from Penn State before it finally disclosed 13 sexual offenses on campus in 2002. Its initial report showed zero.

quote:

Originally posted by PGStaff:
Warning... This may sound stupid.

If the victims are the major concern regarding the penalty... Why not get creative. Take all the profit that football produces and give it to a fund set up for the victims.

If we asked the victims and their families would they prefer giving the death penalty or recieving millions each year, what would they choose?

The death penalty doesn't do anything to help the victims. Not sure anything can ever replace what happened to them. So in addition to all the upcoming law suits, why not at least make the victims even wealthier at the expense of Penn State.

That way the innocent aren't punished as much and the victims basically benefit from Penn State football.

My concern is only for the victims to receive justice, whatever form that takes. Secondarily, but just as important, is preventing this from ever happening again.

quote:

Originally posted by Jimmy03:
Compensation for the victims is not under NCAA's jurisdiction. There will be a number of civil cases to address that.

NCAA doesn't HAVE a jurisdiction. It has a charter (which I think they're calling a Mission Statement these days). Its not a part of the Federal or Pennsylvania State governement, and it doesn't have the power to make legal judgements, only rulings effecting its member Universities. So it doesn't have to coordinate anything with the Civil Courts.

And, it can change its charter if the Board, who answer to its membership of Universities, decides to. NCAA has complete authority to fine one of its members within those parameters, and it can give the money to a group of victims if it sees fit. They could even call it "The NCAA's Official Victim Restitution Fund", and US Government couldn't do a thing about it (except tax the victims for what they received).

Unfortunately, I don't think PG's idea would work in practice, though, because the PSU football program would slowly collapse under its own weight if its only motivation to grow was in support of a victim's fund. Maybe if they just fined them for a few seasons...

The Joe Paterno statue at the stadium is being dismantled right now.

If anyone wants to watch
http://www.ustream.tv/channel/beaver-stadium

We are not just commenting on the horrific fallout of pedophilia here. We are discussing corruption caused by a community whose epicenter is big time college football and the revenue it produces. Penn State's football program budget is around 70 million. The football program is the reason other academic and sports programs exist at Penn State. This is why Joe Paterno "looked the other way" when he was faced with the decision to bring Sandusky's pedophilia to public light. Even if there was no child abuse going on, this kind of situation at colleges is asking for other kinds of corruption.

Big time college football is an industry and it exists because it makes people wealthy. It can be argued that the game exploits student athletes as well. The sad part is that even after all this, Penn State is hesitant to remove the Paterno statue, the NCAA is taking its time with a penalty, and people are still defending the program.

What you see happening at Penn State is not an isolated case. You shouldn't be glad it didn't happen at your University because something like it probably already happened there.

The entire system of higher education receives so much government money and outside funding that their administrators are motivated to keep their school looking shiny and polished. Even if they have to sacrifice a few innocent people for the greater good of the athletic programs.

All big time football programs should be looking in the mirror. Shouldn't education be more important than touchdowns?

looks like the hammer comes down tomorrow


Associated Press

8:37 a.m. CDT, July 22, 2012

The NCAA says it will levy "corrective and punitive measures" against Penn State in the wake of the child ***-abuse scandal involving former football assistant coach Jerry Sandusky.

The NCAA announced Sunday that it will detail the sanctions on Monday. It disclosed no details, saying only that NCAA President Mark Emmert and Ed Ray, the chairman of the NCAA's executive committee and Oregon State's president, will be at the news conference.

Sandusky is awaiting sentencing after being convicted of 45 criminal counts for abusing 10 boys over a number of years. A report commissioned by Penn State found that coach Joe Paterno and other school leaders had helped cover up allegations against Sandusky.

Emmert has not ruled out the possibility of shutting down the Penn State football program in the wake of the scandal, adding that he had "never seen anything as egregious."

So the NCAA is acting before they get PSU's response to the report? Sounds like death penalty and then some if that's the case.

I think it is fair to say that the problems at Penn State are systemic.

And I cant imagine having a problem any bigger than the one that Penn State has.

It is like a cancer.
No guarantee of success - but piecemeal solutions could take a long time.
As unfortunate (and disgusting) as it is - IMO - the best way to prevent the cancer from reappearing is a wholesale wipeout - and then start over again.

A totally corrupt - and disgusting - collection of administrators.

http://espn.go.com/college-foo...day-ncaa-source-says

Hopefully the Big 10 will boot them out.

quote:

Originally posted by Mark B:
Hopefully the Big 10 will boot them out.

Right after they kick out Ohio State.

Statue is coming down!

quote:

Originally posted by RJM:

quote:

Originally posted by Mark B:
Hopefully the Big 10 will boot them out.

Right after they kick out Ohio State.

For what players selling THEIR jerseys? You must be an alum of State Penn or one of their many, although not as may as yesterday apologists.

This reminds me of another scandal....it's the cover up, not the crime.

quote:

Originally posted by dad43:
Statue is coming down!

comment on ESPN...

buckywaters1- They're moving the statue to the library to remind everyone to keep quiet.....

quote:

Originally posted by Mark B:

quote:

Originally posted by RJM:

quote:

Originally posted by Mark B:
Hopefully the Big 10 will boot them out.

Right after they kick out Ohio State.

For what players selling THEIR jerseys? You must be an alum of State Penn or one of their many, although not as may as yesterday apologists.

Are you doubling down on ignorant? First, the NCAA doesn't remove teams from conferences. It's the job of the conference. Second, I don't have any connection to Penn State. But from your location and your comments it's obvious you're using emotion rather than intelligence. It's why I made the Ohio State comment.

I don't see NCAA competitive violations in Sandusky's crimes. There were NCAA competitive crimes in the actions of Pryor and the gang. So yes, right after Ohio State.

Whatever the penalties I'll bet Penn State appeals them as the crime not being competitive related. Without reading all the NCAA bylaws I'm question how much juristiction the NCAA has over this case. Penn State will appeal, then offer their compromise which I bet the NCAA accepts.

If there are football related penalties I would like to see the football team lose twenty scholarships and remain competitive. It would deomonstrate what a joke it is football is allowed to give the fourth string a full ride while many of the contributing baseball players are often on 25% scholarship.

I did live in Pennsylvania for eighteen years. I got tired of the "We are ...." baloney and the attitude Paterno, the football program and the university are the most pristine in the country. It would have been nice had it been true. Obviously it wasn't.

I also got tired of Penn State grads who would tell me Paterno was God while tying John Wooden to Sam Gilbert in the 60's. But despite what has occurred at Penn State I prefer to keep an open mind regarding how it relates to the football program and see how it unfolds over being irrational.

Any and all punishments of the institution of PSU as well as the individuals involved should be viewed from 2 perspectives. The first, obviously, as holding accountable those responsible for these heinous crimes. The second and more important purpose should be viewed as a warning to others that this type of behavior is absolutely unacceptable. To that end the punishment/sanctions of PSU should be harsh. There should be no doubt in anyone's mind that it is in their best interest to place their institution second and the lives of innocent kids first.

quote:

Originally posted by snowman:
Any and all punishments of the institution of PSU as well as the individuals involved should be viewed from 2 perspectives. The first, obviously, as holding accountable those responsible for these heinous crimes. The second and more important purpose should be viewed as a warning to others that this type of behavior is absolutely unacceptable. To that end the punishment/sanctions of PSU should be harsh. There should be no doubt in anyone's mind that it is in their best interest to place their institution second and the lives of innocent kids first.

Nothing short of scorched earth administrative sanctions will sufficient in deterring future institutional transgressions similar to those at PSU. The message needs to be sent to the entire Penn State community, the rest of the NCAA members and pain must be felt for miles around that this is unacceptable behavior by school administrators.

snowman & Dad04,
Well said!

quote:

Originally posted by itsinthegame:
And I cant imagine having a problem any bigger than the one that Penn State has.

It is like a cancer.

Your first sign of this is an 84 year old coach that won't leave.

quote:

Originally posted by SultanofSwat:

quote:

Originally posted by itsinthegame:
And I cant imagine having a problem any bigger than the one that Penn State has.

It is like a cancer.

Your first sign of this is an 84 year old coach that won't leave.

Once Paterno got into his 70's Penn State has some average years. The "Joe must go" campaign started. I'll bet the administration wished they had listened.

What needs to go now is everyone in the administration all the way up to any trustees that were in the know. What is outrageous is university president Spainer was not fired. He was demoted to tenured professor. He can still retire with his full pension.

The press is looking pretty bad. I think the NCAA is going to set an example. Death Penalty for football and all other sports will get some type of ban from the post season.

".....Hey Teacher, Leave Those Kids, Alone"

We RRRRRRR

A slap on the wrist.

Shame on you NCAA.

Wow! Talk about dropping the hammer. The old saying everything but the kitchen sink is now replaced with everything but the PSU.

I agree Wow!

It will take a long time for them to come back from these penalties.

The State College business community just breathed a sigh of relief. No suspension of the program means that they will survive and that the local economics will not collapse. This is basically life in prison instead of the death penalty.

The fine: 60 million dollars out of an athletic budget of 116 million seems like a hefty fine but the funds of a University are amorphous and that money can come from anywhere......

Now how can the NCAA think that Penn State will not cut other athletic programs and suggest that Penn State not cut academic programs to make up for the fine? Here's is what the University Board of Trustees just published less than ten days ago regarding their 4.3 billion dollar budget and increase in tuition for the coming year:

quote:

SUMMARY OF THE BUDGET PLAN
For the coming year, Penn State faces significant inflationary cost increases and flat
funding from the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, yet remains committed to providing a high
quality educational experience for its students at the lowest possible price. The University’s
2012-13 operating budget includes tuition increases at a rate lower than last year’s Consumer
Price Index. As a result, the budget also reflects significant expense reductions and cost
savings.

Penn State’s 2012-13 appropriation of $278.9 million represents no change from funds
initially appropriated by the Commonwealth last year. This appropriation is equal to 1995
levels, when enrollment was 20,000 fewer students than it is today.

The proposed budget keeps tuition at the lowest possible level without sacrificing quality.
In aggregate, undergraduate tuition will increase by 2.4 percent, in spite of no increase in state
funding. For the Commonwealth Campuses, the tuition increase for both lower division
Pennsylvania resident and non-resident students will be 1.9 percent. The tuition increase for
lower division non-resident students at University Park will be 2.4 percent, while the increase
for lower division resident students at University Park will be 2.9 percent. The 2.4 percent
aggregate increase will be among the lowest in the nation.

The 2012-13 budget includes funds to provide for modest salary increases following the
past two years when most faculty and staff have seen their salaries increase by no more than
one percent.

Penn State should be ashamed to raise tuition fees. Programs are going to be cut. The campus will have tumbleweeds blowing through it before it is all over. Boom town goes bust. Game Over!

Bottom line...Penn State is going to have their butts handed to them on a weekly basis for the next decade. Thanks Joe, thanks Jerry, thanks Graham.

No "death penalty". Interesting decision by Emmert and NCAA not to invoke the death penalty but it sure comes close with reductions in the programs current and future operations. Apparently, they're not quite dead yet.

Not quite dead yet

$60M is a lot of money to you and me. But $60M to a large endowed University is not a lot of money. I think the $60M was a slap on the wrist, and the other punishments were just. The NCAA will get their $60M but Penn State is going to have other civil penalites and lawyer fees to contend with in the coming years. At first glance, I don't think they got off easy.

I think the NCAA decided against the death penalty out of consideration for the Big 10.

At least the 60 million is going to programs to help prevent child abuse.

The games vacated from 1998 is a very creative way to "punish" Paterno.

.

They punished his legacy. That stings, but it was deserved.

.

quote:

Originally posted by gotwood4sale:
.

They punished his legacy. That stings, but it was deserved.

.

much more accurate than the way I said it. It was deserved.

quote:

Originally posted by 55mom:
At least the 60 million is going to programs to help prevent child abuse.

I bet it gets wasted on salaries at these non-profits.

Why didn't the money go to the victims?

quote:

The campus will have tumbleweeds blowing through it before it is all over.

This is an absurd statement. Penn State is still an affordable state university. A Big Ten diploma is significant. The kids who don't attend due to the football program will be replaced by all those on the waiting list and those not accepted. It's not like the quality of the students will decline. It typically takes a 3.5/1250 (Math and English) without sports to get accepted unless attending a satellite campus for two years and transferring with a 3.0 or better.

I'm willing to bet Penn State appeals, it goes to court and the bowl ban is reduced to two years. As I posted earlier I would like to see them successful with twenty less scholarships to show it's a farce the fourth string gets full rides while baseball gets next to nothing. Not being able to play in bowls for four years is a death penalty. Top prospects will not go there. Penn State football will become Northwestern/Indiana football until they can start rebuilding in five years. Be careful what you ask for hsbaseballweb followers. If budget becomes an issue guess what sport would be on the discussion table to ax.

Paterno is not allowed the right of due process in this case and has been conviced by the opinion of one man. I just can't think that right. I understand that the charges against him are horrific. Still, isn't the American way to give everyone due process in order to allow a person to defend themselves? Paterno's family is steadfast in that he told his superiors. From there, I don't know the extent of his involvment. I don't think anyone else here does. Thus, I think his family should have the right to have a chance to clear his name.

quote:

Originally posted by AntzDad:
I think the NCAA decided against the death penalty out of consideration for the Big 10.

This is very inciteful. It shows football and football money still rule the day. The death penalty would have created havoc with the balanced divisions and scheduling in the Big Ten. Before it's suggested a lot goes into negotiating a new team's entry.

quote:

Originally posted by 55mom:
At least the 60 million is going to programs to help prevent child abuse.

The games vacated from 1998 is a very creative way to "punish" Paterno.

40M will go to the adminstration of the advocacy groups. 20M will get to victims in the form of support, not compensation.

quote:

Originally posted by RJM:

quote:

Originally posted by 55mom:
At least the 60 million is going to programs to help prevent child abuse.

The games vacated from 1998 is a very creative way to "punish" Paterno.

40M will go to the adminstration of the advocacy groups. 20M will get to victims in the form of support, not compensation.

I knew this was not a compensation, but the admin cost is way too high, if true.