Should Penn State Football be shut down?

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Originally posted by RJM:

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Originally posted by Dad04:
I agree. The exodus won't begin until January, but the recruiting deep freeze began last January.

To the best of my knowledge they only lost four recruits. I believe a draftable player in next years draft stays. He won't want to risk not picking up a new playbook quickly and making mistakes or not getting on the field as much as he would at PSU. I don't know what's occurred in the past month. I would imagine any recruiting coaches would be planting doubt on a weekly basis.

You give these 20 year old football players a lot of credit for being crafty and cunning. I just don't see them being competitive again for a very long time.

It would be insane for them to transfer if they plan to leave in the next draft. A younger top shelf player is going to leave rather than stay two or three more years.

their new head coach had an abysmal offense when he was the OC at Duke. yes, he was successful as OC at the Patriots but i think mr. tom brady may have had a little bit to do with that...
so, even in the best of situations, I don't think he would have won much

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Originally posted by CoachB25:
What has now happened is that a second group of people have become the victims. These players at Penn State who played in those years and who didn't even know Sandusky are victims. No, their plight does not match those of the victims and I don't want to suggest that. Still, they are also now victimized since all of their efforts and accomplishments are erased. How about the other sports programs? They too are now victims. As we all know, football generates most of the revenue that supports non revenue sports like softball and baseball. I'm sure that each sport will also have to cut back scholarships.

In the press conference the NCAA Pres stated that the money to pay the fines could not come at the expense of any other sport....not sure how that is going to work and where does he think Penn Sate will get the money....over time I can not I imagine this not hurting the other non revenue sports at the school

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Originally posted by dad43:

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Originally posted by CoachB25:
What has now happened is that a second group of people have become the victims. These players at Penn State who played in those years and who didn't even know Sandusky are victims. No, their plight does not match those of the victims and I don't want to suggest that. Still, they are also now victimized since all of their efforts and accomplishments are erased. How about the other sports programs? They too are now victims. As we all know, football generates most of the revenue that supports non revenue sports like softball and baseball. I'm sure that each sport will also have to cut back scholarships.

In the press conference the NCAA Pres stated that the money to pay the fines could not come at the expense of any other sport....not sure how that is going to work and where does he think Penn Sate will get the money....over time I can not I imagine this not hurting the other non revenue sports at the school

We know what cold weather outdoor sport is one of the first up for discussion when cutting comes around. Providence College cut baseball right after winning the Big East.

dad43, I don't think it is from the money to pay the fines that is the problem. It is from the loss of revenue generated by the football team. Those are two different things and I agree with you as to not understanding where the money will come from. I belong to a message board that discusses college softball. There is great speculation as to what this really means. As RJM stated, several school cut non revenue sports when revenue decreases. Revenue will decrease without a doubt at Penn State.

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fenwaysouth said....I hope the Paterno family has that opportunity to due process. I'd certainly like to hear his representives tell their side of the story. Possibly they can get the vacated wins back to official wins, and get his statue reinstated.

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zombeywoof said fenwaysouth said....Possibly they can get the vacated wins back to official wins, and get his statue reinstated.

Zomby,

You took my statement way out of context. Do you work in the media?

I stated my opinion that I'd like to hear what the Paterno family has to say. They deserve to have their side of the story told and not silenced by the media. Too much is being said in the media, and the Freeh report has become the end all be all. Give the Paterno family a chance to tell us what happened from their perspective. If nothing comes of it nothing comes of it.

THEIR (Paterno family) motivation is to get his vacated wins back to official wins and get his statue reinstated......that is NOT MY desire, but it is THEIR movitation. If I was not given the chance to speak my mind on the topic, you would not know that.

So, my point is let the Paterno family speak. If nothing substantial comes of it, then we can move on.

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Originally posted by fenwaysouth:
You took my statement way out of context. Do you work in the media?

That was funny.

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Originally posted by CoachB25:
dad43, I don't think it is from the money to pay the fines that is the problem. It is from the loss of revenue generated by the football team. Those are two different things and I agree with you as to not understanding where the money will come from. I belong to a message board that discusses college softball. There is great speculation as to what this really means. As RJM stated, several school cut non revenue sports when revenue decreases. Revenue will decrease without a doubt at Penn State.

The fallout to other programs is not only deserving, it is needed. The problem at Penn State was not with the football program, it was with the university and pervasive throughout the athletic department. As such, the penalties should encompass all that benefited from a corrupt administration. That would include all those sports funded by football dollars.

Everyone who worked at PSU athletics knew that their star was hitched to Paternos wagon. They made that choice with open eyes when they came to work there. The players can move on.

The American way, as you liked to coin it in an earlier post, is to stand up and take responsibility for your actions. Handing out penalties that envelope the whole athletic department seem pretty fitting since the whole athletic department was reaping the benefits of a program that facilitated felonious child rape.

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Originally posted by fenwaysouth:

So, my point is let the Paterno family speak. If nothing substantial comes of it, then we can move on.

Here is Paterno's last interview. Now remember, that this interviewer, Sally Jenkins, from the Washington Post, was hand picked by the Paterno family. If you read the article following this interview, Jenkins is very understanding and even empathetic with Paternos position because she believes what he says...

Paternos Last Interview, January 14, 2012


Here is another Sally Jenkins article, published the day the Freeh report was released, July 12, 2012 when she realized that Paterno had spent the whole interview in January lying to her...

Sally Jenkins responds to the Freeh Report

Her opening paragraph in the article...

"Joe Paterno was a liar, there’s no doubt about that now. He was also a cover-up artist. If the Freeh report is correct in its summary of the Penn State child molestation scandal, the public Paterno of the last few years was a work of fiction. In his place is a hubristic, indictable hypocrite."


it goes on, " ... he also perjured himself before a grand jury."

and more...
"Paterno’s account of himself is flatly contradicted in damming detail by ex FBI-director Louis Freeh’s report."

This is not media spin, this is from the reporter the family chose to chronicle JoePa in the most positive light...and it worked, until the facts came out.

Let's put the Freeh report in perspective. It was commissioned by Penn State. It was dozens of investigators headed up by the former head of the FBI. It would be near impossible to find a more impartial and qualified person to head up such an investigation.

Anyone that thinks that the Paterno family has not been heard from, is not following the facts. Sally Jenkins of the prestigious and credible Washington Post has turned 180 degrees on her own original opinions, which demonstrates some objectivity.

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Originally posted by CPLZ:
This is not media spin, this is from the reporter the family chose to chronicle JoePa in the most positive light...and it worked, until the facts came out.

This is a reporter that had to make such a statement in order to save her career in the face of the outrage of the day. Nothing else.

CPLZ,

I had not read the Sally Jenkins response to the Freeh report. Thanks for sharing. It is pretty telling. I did read the Freeh report and watched/read Paternos last interview. I'm following these events as closely as most, but I can't read everything. Sally Jenkins is a reputable reporter, but she is a reporter none the less. Sorry, I just can't trust the media 100%. It just ain't gonna happen.

I think Freeh did a bang up job with his report, however as you indicated he was commissioned by Penn State. Again, in my mind I can't trust it 100% because Penn State will do anything to save their skin. My point is that if we are going to convict Paterno in the court of public opinion (because this isn;t a trial) shouldn't he be allowed to defend himself and his legacy. I agree it doesn't look good at all. In all likelyhood, he did what they say he did. But, in my mind their is a sliver of a chance that what the media and PSU's "gun for hire" are telling us is what the public wants to hear. I want to hear Paterno's side without the media and I'd like to hear their counter-arguements to the Freeh report. If they can't disprove facts, THEN I can convict him in the court of public opinion. JMO.

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Originally posted by SultanofSwat:
This is a reporter that had to make such a statement in order to save her career in the face of the outrage of the day. Nothing else.

Not sticking up for her, but I'm not so sure Sally Jenkins would have to "save her career"... She's been a prominent sports writer for decades...

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Originally posted by Bolts-Coach-PR:
She's been a prominent sports writer for decades...

Paterno was a prominent coach for decades...

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Originally posted by SultanofSwat:

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Originally posted by Bolts-Coach-PR:
She's been a prominent sports writer for decades...

Paterno was a prominent coach for decades...

Are you really comparing...?

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Originally posted by Bolts-Coach-PR:
Are you really comparing...?

If you think a CYA from a reporter is evidence, then that's great. She attached herself to Paterno via her interview, and after the uproar, she had to distance herself. It's nothing more than that.

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Originally posted by CPLZ:
The fallout to other programs is not only deserving, it is needed. The problem at Penn State was not with the football program, it was with the university and pervasive throughout the athletic department.

Please state the examples where all the sports programs at Penn State are corrupt. Please state the examples where the academic department departments at Penn State are corrupt. That everyone knew is your assumption. Please provide data and facts.

Is a biased, CYA article by a reporter on Paterno shocking? We get it every day almost across the board with the media covering Obama.

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The fallout to other programs is not only deserving, it is needed.

Disagree entirely. The fallout is unintended but unavoidable because of the nature of university politics. Institutions of higher learning that are reliant on the fundraising ability of one athletic program by their very makeup necessarily sacrifice other people and entire lesser programs. This is why there are very few true humanitarians in big time college sports.

Well, one thing if for certain, we certainly don't need anyone to make statements under oath and/or allow anyone to defend themselves in courts of law. They are not entitled to anything remotly close to due process. At least we have learned that. The court of public opinion has taken care of that and woe be to anyone who ask for more. How about that Duke Lacrosse Team?

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CoachB25 said...How about that Duke Lacrosse Team?

Bingo. Yahtzee.

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I think Freeh did a bang up job with his report, however as you indicated he was commissioned by Penn State. Again, in my mind I can't trust it 100% because Penn State will do anything to save their skin. My point is that if we are going to convict Paterno in the court of public opinion (because this isn;t a trial) shouldn't he be allowed to defend himself and his legacy. I agree it doesn't look good at all. In all likelyhood, he did what they say he did. But, in my mind their is a sliver of a chance that what the media and PSU's "gun for hire" are telling us is what the public wants to hear. I want to hear Paterno's side without the media and I'd like to hear their counter-arguements to the Freeh report. If they can't disprove facts, THEN I can convict him in the court of public opinion. JMO.

Penn State did not manage to its skin. Their football is now back to square one, which is good. A fresh start. How often do you have a former FBI director personally lead an investigation? I would bet my farm that he is more impartial than anyone else on this website. So far it is the best we could have...until criminal and civil trials that will follow soon.

Do Duke and other scandals have a former FBI director lead an investigation and then later on it turn out that the FBI director is wrong and being partial?

I would like to see Paterno's family sue Penn State for wrongful termination, sue Penn State to re-instate his statue, sue NCAA to re-instate his wins, sue Feech and his Task force for libel and slandering.

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Originally posted by bball123:

I would like to see Paterno's family sue Penn State for wrongful termination, sue Penn State to re-instate his statue, sue NCAA to re-instate his wins, sue Feech and his Task force for libel and slandering.

Wow.

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Originally posted by RJM:

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Originally posted by CPLZ:
The fallout to other programs is not only deserving, it is needed. The problem at Penn State was not with the football program, it was with the university and pervasive throughout the athletic department.

Please state the examples where all the sports programs at Penn State are corrupt. Please state the examples where the academic department departments at Penn State are corrupt. That everyone knew is your assumption. Please provide data and facts.

First, I never said "everyone knew". The problem at Penn State was not child molestation, the problem was allowing one individual, a football coach, unprecedented powers, enough so, to be able to coerce his supposed bosses, The AD and University President, into sweeping felonious activity by one its employees under the rug. The fact, and it is undisputed now, was that Paterno was allowed to wield the big stick, and that, everyone did know. That single issue, allowing a coach to be the most influential person on campus, was at the heart of the problem, and extended beyond the athletic department, and was not a secret to anyone.

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Originally posted by fenwaysouth:

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CoachB25 said...How about that Duke Lacrosse Team?

Bingo. Yahtzee.

What an awful analogy.

You are attempting to compare an elected officials attempts at headline grabbing and knee jerk reaction to the findings of an independent commission over months, headed by a man of impeccable character, and backed by a paper and electronic media trail of facts.

Let me offer three things in rebuttal...

There is no doubt that Paterno knew what was happening since 1998. There is a paper trail of correspondence documenting that.

There is no doubt that Paterno lied to the Grand Jury when they asked him specifically if he had any notion of a problem. He had been in active communication with university administration, this is documented.

There is no doubt that Paterno lied in his last interview with Sally Jenkins about what he knew and when he knew it.

This is not a he said, she said, as the Duke Lacrosse situation was. This is a trail of documented correspondences and of conversations that show who knew what and when they knew it and then the lies that were told regarding those facts. These documents also go into detail about the attempts to cover up and remediate the problems. So it wasn't just that he knew, it's that he actively participated in the decision making process about how to handle it.

This is not conjecture, speculation or assumption. The details of these facts are all contained in the Freeh report which lays out the documentation to support a fact based conclusion.

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Originally posted by CPLZ:

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Originally posted by RJM:

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Originally posted by CPLZ:
The fallout to other programs is not only deserving, it is needed. The problem at Penn State was not with the football program, it was with the university and pervasive throughout the athletic department.

Please state the examples where all the sports programs at Penn State are corrupt. Please state the examples where the academic department departments at Penn State are corrupt. That everyone knew is your assumption. Please provide data and facts.

First, I never said "everyone knew". The problem at Penn State was not child molestation, the problem was allowing one individual, a football coach, unprecedented powers, enough so, to be able to coerce his supposed bosses, The AD and University President, into sweeping felonious activity by one its employees under the rug. The fact, and it is undisputed now, was that Paterno was allowed to wield the big stick, and that, everyone did know. That single issue, allowing a coach to be the most influential person on campus, was at the heart of the problem, and extended beyond the athletic department, and was not a secret to anyone.

I never said "everyone knew" ... hmmm ... "it was with the university and pervasive throughout the athletic department."

So please list the sports programs and academic departments where it was pervasive.

I feel sure someone in the ice cream shop knew.

CPLZ,

We're doing a great job of going round and round on this one. You have your beliefs and I have mine. Others may be looking at this differently, and I respect their beliefs too. I'm not going to change my mind, and I don't expect you to change yours. I'm good with that.

I want to hear specifics from the Paterno side before being 100% sure everything has been done and said. That is just my way of looking at the world. A court of law has convicted Sandusky. I'm very good with that. Paterno has not been convicted by a court of law, but is being convicted by court of public opinion. I'm not good with that. I want more information and Paterno's rebuttal to the Freeh report.

If you and others have 100% confidence in the Freeh report, I think that is great. Believe every word of it as gospel. Again, I'm not trying to change your mind.

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Originally posted by RJM:

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Originally posted by CPLZ:

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Originally posted by RJM:

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Originally posted by CPLZ:
The fallout to other programs is not only deserving, it is needed. The problem at Penn State was not with the football program, it was with the university and pervasive throughout the athletic department.

Please state the examples where all the sports programs at Penn State are corrupt. Please state the examples where the academic department departments at Penn State are corrupt. That everyone knew is your assumption. Please provide data and facts.

First, I never said "everyone knew". The problem at Penn State was not child molestation, the problem was allowing one individual, a football coach, unprecedented powers, enough so, to be able to coerce his supposed bosses, The AD and University President, into sweeping felonious activity by one its employees under the rug. The fact, and it is undisputed now, was that Paterno was allowed to wield the big stick, and that, everyone did know. That single issue, allowing a coach to be the most influential person on campus, was at the heart of the problem, and extended beyond the athletic department, and was not a secret to anyone.

I never said "everyone knew" ... hmmm ... "it was with the university and pervasive throughout the athletic department."

So please list the sports programs and academic departments where it was pervasive.

I believe we are talking two different things. The "it" I am referring to is not the child molestation, the "it" I am referring to was the understanding that what JoePa wants, JoePa gets and that JoePa can influence a great many things at PSU outside of football. I do believe this was well known throughout the faculty and administration.

From Freeh Report offical documents...

On May 3, 1998, Sandusky sexually assaulted a young boy in the Lasch Building on Penn State's campus. His mother noted the boy was acting differently when he came home and called a psychologist about it, as well as the University Police Department.

...When word of the May 3 assault reached Schultz two days later, he noted, "Is this opening of Pandora's Box?" and wondered if there were other children involved. Emails between Schultz and Curley imply that they had "touched base" with Joe Paterno about the incident as well. Yet after the UPD began an investigation, campus police chief Thomas Harmon said they would "hold off on making any crime log entry." All four officials -- Spanier, Paterno, Curley and Schultz -- were fully aware about the allegation and investigation in 1998, but failed to report it to the Board of Trustees, according to the report.

Understand that the McQueary incident is 2002.

The direct question of the Grand Jury asked JoePa...

(from the Grand Jury Testimony of Joe Paterno) Q: Other than the incident that Mike McQueary reported to you, do you know in any way, through rumor, direct knowledge or any other fashion, of any other inappropriate sexual conduct by Jerry Sandusky with young boys?

Mr. Paterno: I do not know of anything else that Jerry would be involved in of that nature, no. I do not know of it. You did mention — I think you said something about a rumor. It may have been discussed in my presence, something else about somebody. I don’t know. I don’t remember, and I could not honestly say I heard a rumor.

Seems pretty cut and dried considering that Freeh has all the supporting documents to back up what he said.

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Originally posted by CPLZ:

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Originally posted by RJM:

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Originally posted by CPLZ:

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Originally posted by RJM:

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Originally posted by CPLZ:
The fallout to other programs is not only deserving, it is needed. The problem at Penn State was not with the football program, it was with the university and pervasive throughout the athletic department.

Please state the examples where all the sports programs at Penn State are corrupt. Please state the examples where the academic department departments at Penn State are corrupt. That everyone knew is your assumption. Please provide data and facts.

First, I never said "everyone knew". The problem at Penn State was not child molestation, the problem was allowing one individual, a football coach, unprecedented powers, enough so, to be able to coerce his supposed bosses, The AD and University President, into sweeping felonious activity by one its employees under the rug. The fact, and it is undisputed now, was that Paterno was allowed to wield the big stick, and that, everyone did know. That single issue, allowing a coach to be the most influential person on campus, was at the heart of the problem, and extended beyond the athletic department, and was not a secret to anyone.

I never said "everyone knew" ... hmmm ... "it was with the university and pervasive throughout the athletic department."

So please list the sports programs and academic departments where it was pervasive.

I believe we are talking two different things. The "it" I am referring to is not the child molestation, the "it" I am referring to was the understanding that what JoePa wants, JoePa gets and that JoePa can influence a great many things at PSU outside of football. I do believe this was well known throughout the faculty and administration.

There's no doubt Paterno was the most powerful person on campus. He may have been one of the most powerful people in the state. But it doesn't mean there is anything corrupt about the rest of the sports programs and academic departments at the university. Therefore, it isn't pervasive and no one deserved to be penalized. If this situation created a budget issue I wouldn't be shocked if they cut baseball. It's always one of the first programs put on the discussion table in cold weather areas. Do the baseball players deserve this because of Paterno?

I genuinely believe there was a small group of people who were involved in the coverup. Unfortunately it probably goes all the way to the top administration. But like a couple of other posters I would like to see them charged and convicted before they're hung.

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Originally posted by RJM:
Do the baseball players deserve this because of Paterno?

First, it is not because of Paterno, it is because Paterno was allowed to be Paterno. A great many people, people who are to be trusted with the health and wealfare of young men and women, failed them miserably by creating and allowing a Paterno to exist. That is the failure of the system. The whole, "we'll look the other way as long as he brings us fundraising and prestige", mantra.

Baseball was happy to hitch its wagon to the rising Paterno star, brand new state of the are facilities and all. I believe it should gather dust. So yes, the other sports reaped the benefits, the other sports should suffer. It is called a punishment. Don't punish football, football wasn't the problem. Punish athletics for letting the university allow it to become bigger than the university itself. Let it stand as an empty monolith as a reminder that one should not benefit from the corruption of decency.

CPLZ, we have serious differences of opinion here. The Duke Players were tried in the court of public opinion and even on this site, a thread was removed because it got out of hand. This country tried and convicted those boys and you know it. Then, when a trial was held, the truth came out. You are convicting these people based upon an private investigation. I want the conviction to be done via a court of law. You mention all of the email evidence convicting Paterno. He didn't have email and so, hearsay evidence. That is until someone provides evidence under oath. 230 witnesses. Name one! I'll wait.


Again, I want this to be settled in a court of law. Then these witnesses will testify under oath. We will know their names. We will know their role in all of this. We will then be able to better identify how this was allowed to continue for so long and those responsible will have their day in court and will pay the price. While some might say that Paterno won't, I don't think that is true since I believe he has left a huge estate.

CPLZ, I guess we just aren't going to see eye to eye on this. BTW, I think that until this goes to trial, there are 230 people and the administration and coaching staff guilty of allowing these young men to be victimized.

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Originally posted by CPLZ:

quote:

Originally posted by RJM:
Do the baseball players deserve this because of Paterno?

First, it is not because of Paterno, it is because Paterno was allowed to be Paterno. A great many people, people who are to be trusted with the health and wealfare of young men and women, failed them miserably by creating and allowing a Paterno to exist. That is the failure of the system. The whole, "we'll look the other way as long as he brings us fundraising and prestige", mantra.

Baseball was happy to hitch its wagon to the rising Paterno star, brand new state of the are facilities and all. I believe it should gather dust. So yes, the other sports reaped the benefits, the other sports should suffer. It is called a punishment. Don't punish football, football wasn't the problem. Punish athletics for letting the university allow it to become bigger than the university itself. Let it stand as an empty monolith as a reminder that one should not benefit from the corruption of decency.

What is that saying about 2 wrongs?

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Originally posted by bball123:

I would like to see Paterno's family sue Penn State for wrongful termination, sue Penn State to re-instate his statue, sue NCAA to re-instate his wins, sue Feech and his Task force for libel and slandering.

Why?

Before he was terminated he made a statement that he wished that he had done things differently. What do you suppose that meant?

This is a morality issue IMO, how does a coach, a leader and a mentor, continue his job day to day, year after year, knowing what he did and not do anything seriously about it?

When his friend retired (or as we know now forced to) Paterno DID NOT attend his retirement dinner.

Don't you find that pretty weird? I am thinking that he most likely couldn't stomach the guy at that point, but still remained quiet. The heck with what others did or didn't do, as a teacher it was his OBLIGATION and DUTY to report what he knew to the authorities. He did not.

The day that the assistant coach went to him to report what he heard or perhaps saw, and Paterno passed the buck, was the day he gave up the right to any claims of greatness and everything he ever worked for. He still continued to pass the buck after being questioned, he said he reported it to his superiors?

I don't think his family would dare to sue anyone. What could they prove in his defense?

IMO the only reason Paterno was "sorry" or felt guilty was because the scandal come out in public. He knew for 15 years and decided to shoulder the situation and hand out punishments which ultimately never happened. Ultimately Paterno was just as guilty as Sandusky in my book. Knowing and not saying anything about it is guilty. Not immediately firing Sandusky and turning him over to law is guilty. Don't be confused about if Paterno was in the right or wrong. He was 100% wrong...

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Originally posted by CoachB25:

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Originally posted by CPLZ:

quote:

Originally posted by RJM:
Do the baseball players deserve this because of Paterno?

First, it is not because of Paterno, it is because Paterno was allowed to be Paterno. A great many people, people who are to be trusted with the health and wealfare of young men and women, failed them miserably by creating and allowing a Paterno to exist. That is the failure of the system. The whole, "we'll look the other way as long as he brings us fundraising and prestige", mantra.

Baseball was happy to hitch its wagon to the rising Paterno star, brand new state of the are facilities and all. I believe it should gather dust. So yes, the other sports reaped the benefits, the other sports should suffer. It is called a punishment. Don't punish football, football wasn't the problem. Punish athletics for letting the university allow it to become bigger than the university itself. Let it stand as an empty monolith as a reminder that one should not benefit from the corruption of decency.

What is that saying about 2 wrongs?

I think we'll have to agree to disagree on that one also, Coach...I don't see the wrong in punishing all of athletics when it was all of athletics that blindly followed without question as long as their sports were getting funded.

---------------
The day that the assistant coach went to him to report what he heard or perhaps saw, and Paterno passed the buck, was the day he gave up the right to any claims of greatness and everything he ever worked for. He still continued to pass the buck after being questioned, he said he reported it to his superiors?

I don't think his family would dare to sue anyone. What could they prove in his defense?
----------------

That's my point, you have expressed it better than I do. So far, Paterno's family is doing spin-doctoring. If they sincerely believe they have a case, bring them to the court now and force the other side to show evidence and testimony under oath. So far, all they did is spin the news and acting in denial.

But anyway, the prosecutors and victims will bring criminal and civil cases to the court. All of us will see the light of the day in a year or two down the road.

I'm still puzzled why some people equal the Freeh report as public opinion. It is an investigation task force led by a former FBI director who has a very good track record. And the task force is comprised of upstanding professional citizen, some coming from Penn State as well. This is not done by a local sheriff of unknown track record.

So far, this is the best we got, until Paterno's family dare to bring Penn State, NCAA and Freeh Task force to court. Or two years down the road when the victims have their day in court. I can wait, I have patience.

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I think we'll have to agree to disagree on that one also, Coach...I don't see the wrong in punishing all of athletics when it was all of athletics that blindly followed without question as long as their sports were getting funded.

Good point. Another way of looking at it, millions of German soldiers were rendered unemployed after WWII, was that fair to them, their local cities and economy that depended on the soldiers? Hitler got off easy, he just killed himself. Until this day, there are people that deny that Holocaust has even happened. Learn from history.

Penn State paid for the Freeh report. Frankly I thought it was going to be biased towards Paterno and the school. I was shocked by its contents.