If a RHP is throwing in the 90’s with great secondary pitches and ends up a high d1 recruit, could he potentially look at low to mid d1’s hoping to get more money? In other words, is there any chance a low d1 might offer 80% plus in a scholarship to get a top prospect in the state? If so, any reason going this route isn’t a good idea other than the ability to say “I committed at X college”?
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According to your kid's aspirations. Some want to play for championships, some top championships, and some the national championships. Some, as is said on here a lot, are just using baseball to get a degree paid for. If the third is the plan, then go for the best scholarship you can get. But normally mid major D1's won't give that much to a pitcher because it will only mean at most 1 win a week. Just know when they give that much to one player, especially in state, they are missing 3 other players that could get something and be happy.
You have to be a special player to even get 50%. You have to remember in today’s world you can use that same 50% to get 3 proven performers out of the transfer portal and/or from the JuCo ranks. Three impact players is better than just one. However, it’s the wild west where NIL is concerned and you never know what school might come up with something significant. NIL may be a more practical way to get more than 50%. But as PF stated, a lot more things than money should factor into the decision.
I know a couple of New England pitchers who were in the 90’s senior year of high school. The didn’t end up at a big time program. They’re at UConn who sometimes hits the fringes of ranked.
There aren’t any big time programs in the Northeast. For a Northeast kid to get recruited to a ranked program he has to be something really special. Pitcher Hunter Owen from South Portland (ME) High is at Vanderbilt. He was at 92 soph year of high school.
Corbin has New England roots. He always seems to have the inside track on the absolute top talent in New England. The year Vanderbilt won it all his #1, #2, closer and cleanup hitter were all from Massachusetts.
NEmom, there are so many things to consider. Yes, it has to make sense financially but when it comes time to choosing a school, also consider whether a fit with regards to academic major, social fit, geographical fit, academic support, class size, school size, city/town size, alumni connectivity, costs outside of tuition, team culture, coaching style, weather, etc.
Remember the 4 vs 40 rule - this is potentially a critical decision that will affect the next 40 years + of his life, not just the next 4 yrs of playing ball. For many young student athletes, their athletic focus and competitive nature will draw their interests to the high profile athletic schools. Parents often have to provide a sense of reason and encouragement to consider the other aspects.
Also keep in mind that comparing the $ or % offer isn't apples to apples. i.e. - 50% at an expensive private school can still leave you with a higher bill than 0% at a state school. What kind of student is he? If he earns financial $ as well, that can vary from school to school. When we have a kid that shows so much promise for athletics paving the way, sometimes we mistakenly ignore the other $ available. He will want the financial commitment from his school for athletics but a 25% offer at school A can prove to be more valuable than 75% at school B.
@RJM posted:I know a couple of New England pitchers who were in the 90’s senior year of high school. The didn’t end up at a big time program. They’re at UConn who sometimes hits the fringes of ranked.
There aren’t any big time programs in the Northeast. For a Northeast kid to get recruited to a ranked program he has to be something really special. Pitcher Hunter Owen from South Portland (ME) High is at Vanderbilt. He was at 92 soph year of high school.
Corbin has New England roots. He always seems to have the inside track on the absolute top talent in New England. The year Vanderbilt won it all his #1, #2, closer and cleanup hitter were all from Massachusetts.
Not sure if you are talking about when your kid was recruited, but there are players from the Northeast that are at big time programs these days, including players that are high draft prospects. And UCONN is very good, even beyond very good for a NE program.
Point of order - when discussing a 25% or 75% offer (or whatever), what is the denominator? Is it the full cost a student/family needs to go to school for the year - whatever the university estimates as full cost of attendance?
ex: It’s tuition, but is it off-campus food? It’s books, but is it travel to/from school?
Or is it different case by case?
I know it is out of the scope of this topic, but many Northern players are recruited by the big time programs. They may be a little more raw in some cases, but the upside can be enormous. The gene pool for baseball is spread equally across the nation. The more developed players come from the warm weather states but great ones exist also in the North. I agree with nycdad, UCONN is a big time baseball program. George Springer and Nick Ahmed are two big leaguers they developed and I am sure there are others.
Yes, this happens. We’ve seen it with my 2024. He went very broad with his recruiting and saw it through with just about every school that showed interest. The lower the baseball pedigree of the school, generally the higher the offer - up to 80% and beyond.
@nycdad posted:Not sure if you are talking about when your kid was recruited, but there are players from the Northeast that are at big time programs these days, including players that are high draft prospects. And UCONN is very good, even beyond very good for a NE program.
Ranked (top programs) and P5 aren't the same thing. Northwestern is a P5. BC is a P5.
UConn is the best program in the northeast. But they're not perenially ranked. They're sometimes ranked. The original poster asked about "top" programs.
I have two in college ball. The oldest at a P5, the youngest at a mid major in a decent conference.
The youngest had a few 25-30% P5 offers. They liked him, they didn't love him. They weren't super responsive all the time, they weren't in any rush to get him on campus to show him around, they were making the bare minimum investment. A lot of "we'll see" or "we'll be in touch"
He had a lot of offers from competitive mid majors and lower end D1s in the 80-100% range. This told me this was the level that was more appropriate for him.
You are what the market tells you you are. If you were truly a P5 players, you'd have P5s fighting over you. If you're a solid mid major player you'll have mid majors trying to outbid each other and maybe a few higher level schools throw their hat in the ring. If you're a fringe D1 player with walk on D1 opportunities and a bunch of D2s/D3s that love you, you'll be the first one cut at the D1.
I saw firsthand how difficult it was for the oldest at the P5 and he was a much more polished HS player with better stuff. The youngest was bigger but weaker, threw harder but had less control and inconsistent secondary pitches. I think he'll be the better player by the time it's said and done but if he went to a P5 that offered the bare minimum odds are he would've been towards the end of the roster, getting buried for meaningful instruction and most likely cut if he didn't start producing right away.
He is thriving with all the attention he is getting at his current school. Will most likely be a top 5 pitcher as a freshman. Doubt he'll crack the rotation but coming out of the pen on a Friday/Saturday is great compared to where he could have been if his ego made the decision instead of his brain. When they have a lot invested in you, they really invest.
@Northeastmom posted:If a RHP is throwing in the 90’s with great secondary pitches and ends up a high d1 recruit, could he potentially look at low to mid d1’s hoping to get more money? In other words, is there any chance a low d1 might offer 80% plus in a scholarship to get a top prospect in the state? If so, any reason going this route isn’t a good idea other than the ability to say “I committed at X college”?
My son received 90% at a DI P5 school. Wasn't a fit. Now he is at a school that couldn't offer him much the first go round but it is so much the better fit. We made money the top priority and it was a huge mistake.
@PABaseball posted:I have two in college ball. The oldest at a P5, the youngest at a mid major in a decent conference.
The youngest had a few 25-30% P5 offers. They liked him, they didn't love him. They weren't super responsive all the time, they weren't in any rush to get him on campus to show him around, they were making the bare minimum investment. A lot of "we'll see" or "we'll be in touch"
He had a lot of offers from competitive mid majors and lower end D1s in the 80-100% range. This told me this was the level that was more appropriate for him.
You are what the market tells you you are. If you were truly a P5 players, you'd have P5s fighting over you. If you're a solid mid major player you'll have mid majors trying to outbid each other and maybe a few higher level schools throw their hat in the ring. If you're a fringe D1 player with walk on D1 opportunities and a bunch of D2s/D3s that love you, you'll be the first one cut at the D1.
I saw firsthand how difficult it was for the oldest at the P5 and he was a much more polished HS player with better stuff. The youngest was bigger but weaker, threw harder but had less control and inconsistent secondary pitches. I think he'll be the better player by the time it's said and done but if he went to a P5 that offered the bare minimum odds are he would've been towards the end of the roster, getting buried for meaningful instruction and most likely cut if he didn't start producing right away.
He is thriving with all the attention he is getting at his current school. Will most likely be a top 5 pitcher as a freshman. Doubt he'll crack the rotation but coming out of the pen on a Friday/Saturday is great compared to where he could have been if his ego made the decision instead of his brain. When they have a lot invested in you, they really invest.
Thank you. This is the conversation we are currently having. What he wants and what I think is best may not align. Really trying hard to help a young kid see the big picture- playing time, confidence, and finances. His grades are good in all honors and AP classes. Not valedictorian good but top 20% of his class with challenging courses. He does understand academics come first and is prioritizing that for recruiting. I just worry this spring/ summer are going to hit like a mac truck and want to be sure we know what to expect. I’m sure my kid would like to turn his talent into professional ball. Wouldn’t all kids? I would like him to leverage his talent into a loan free college education. We’ll pitch in financially, but between academics and athletics we want to see him leave school with a 0 debt degree. To me, that is the dream.
@Northeastmom posted:If a RHP is throwing in the 90’s with great secondary pitches and ends up a high d1 recruit, could he potentially look at low to mid d1’s hoping to get more money? In other words, is there any chance a low d1 might offer 80% plus in a scholarship to get a top prospect in the state? If so, any reason going this route isn’t a good idea other than the ability to say “I committed at X college”?
To answer your questions in order:
Yes
Yes
No, but…a high D1 recruit that throws in the 90s with great secondary pitches can also get 80%+ scholarship (athletic, room/board/books/etc as denominator) from high d1 program too.
I agree with you sentiment, don’t go to a high d1 for the “commitment post”, but also don’t assume that these programs can’t show up to the table with a very aggressive offer for what they see as the right talent.
Thanks to all, this has been helpful and gives me more to consider. I appreciate the thoughtful replies!
Go to a private school, combine athletic money + academic money to equal 100%. This is also possible at some public schools
I do not understand this high D1. High D1 is P5. Of the top 25 which is the high D1, only 2 schools, East Carolina and Southern Miss, are not P5 schools. I have a hard time believing a top 25 team is giving a player in low 90s a 80% scholarship. They may have in the past but not in today's world.
I took "high D1" to mean top quartile (so of ~300 D1 programs, top 75) or more simply, P5.
Sure, an 80% offer is not going to materialize from a P5 school for a RHP flashing a low 90s fastball the summer before senior year.
However, an 80% offer can definitely materialize from a P5 school for an underclassman RHP "throwing in the 90’s with great secondary pitches."
Likelihood of an offer goes down as the definition of "high D1" becomes narrower. Also goes down as skill attributes decline and age increases.
@PitchingFan posted:I do not understand this high D1. High D1 is P5. Of the top 25 which is the high D1, only 2 schools, East Carolina and Southern Miss, are not P5 schools. I have a hard time believing a top 25 team is giving a player in low 90s a 80% scholarship. They may have in the past but not in today's world.
I agree. I think that a lot of people define high D1 differently than you and I do. IMO the difference between top 30 D1 programs and everyone else is significant in terms of top to bottom talent in the program. With a little variation it’s the same group of schools almost every year. Not sure others see that way.
I think most of the guys that even get 75% offers in top D1/P5 are locks for the draft and don't make it to campus anyway.
My definition of High D1 are programs that are typically ranked in the top twenty-five. The next level is sometimes ranked.
What can be misleading in rankings are the upset team that makes it to a Super Series or CWS. They got hot at the end and made it through. They get ranked in the top eight or sixteen. But, in reality no way they belong ranked there.
One year BC (13-15 in conference) came within a game of not making the ACC tournament. They made it to the ACC championship. They won their region as a four seed. By the time the season was over they were playing in game three of a Super Series. They had two pitchers now in the majors who got hot and dominating at the right time.
I don't think anyone, including the high first round guys, get 75% at top 25 schools. You might get it if you add in an NIL deal in today's world but not scholarship if you are talking 75% of total cost. I heard a guy say his kid got a 75% scholarship this fall at a high P5. I said so they gave your kid 75% of total cost at that school. He said not total cost. 75% of tuition. I said so he got a 10-20% scholarship.
I'm not sure we are talking the same language at times. Top D1 schools to me is top 10% which is top 30 teams in the nation. If you make less than a 90 on a test you did not finish in the top of your class. Unless your language is TOP half. If you are talking scholarship %, then it is a % of the total costs of going to school not just tuition. The % is relative to how much the one full of the 11.7 is valued at.
What I'm seeing: A "100%" offer consists of baseball + academic money covering the checks we would otherwise write directly to the school. Which means out of pocket depends on lifestyle, cost of living, number of supplemental burritos consumed, and NIL receipts.
(I'm not saying that's my definition of 100%, but that's how coaches have presented it and I suspect that when short handing to their friends and family it's the number many parents would use. It's great, no complaints).
My kids both received 75%. But I was always very clear to people I was talking with about college baseball/softball with it was 25% athletic and 50% academic. 25% is very normal. My impression is players getting 50% or more are typically extremely talented and likely to be drafted in the top ten rounds. Sometimes, kids are receiving financial aid money and parents don’t want to talk about it. What people earn isn’t anyone else’s business.
My kids told me their teammates never talked about how college was being handled. It was rarely a conversation in the stands. It was happy news for the parents when a kid got more than last year.
I agree RJM. I’ve never discussed money in travel, showcase or college. I never wanted to tell how little or how much it cost or didn’t cost. I don’t ask now about scholarships or NIL money
my mom took son for a weekend tournament. A mom was complaining about cost and lack of playing time. My mom asked me do you pay what she pays. I said no but I appreciated what she paid. My wife never asked what any of it cost.
life lessons
Don’t ask a woman’s age or talk baseball money.
@Long415 posted:Point of order - when discussing a 25% or 75% offer (or whatever), what is the denominator? Is it the full cost a student/family needs to go to school for the year - whatever the university estimates as full cost of attendance?
ex: It’s tuition, but is it off-campus food? It’s books, but is it travel to/from school?
Or is it different case by case?
I would say it is what the school says is full cost of attendance. When my son opened his recruiting this past summer and we talked offers with schools, we always would first go through all the costs of attendance. Tuition, housing, books, meal plans, and any other fees that were required of the student. Then we would bounce the athletic money number against that cost of attendance to come up with the percentage. We never included discretionary spending costs or the cost of transportation (airline tickets) to get back and forth to school.
I'll add this, even though it wasn't part of your question. LHP, no doubt. RHP as you describe, good chance that you can throw the draft into the equation.
Every school we talked to it was percentage of tuition, room and board and books. It's been a couple years but we knew 2 guys that had 75% offers at top 25 schools. The pitcher had 2 SEC schools offering 75%. Both kids went in the draft the first day. I'm pretty sure they offered knowing it is unlikely they will get the kid, but taking a shot. Would it happen today, unlikely because they would rather use NIL money to supplement, that isn't guaranteed for 4 years.
I always considered high level top 50ish. There are quite a few good teams who will not crack the top 25-30 at the end of the season who given the right circumstances could probably have a nice tournament.
50-100 are competitive teams. After 100 there is a drop-off and after 200 I don't think many teams would compete with IMG.
It's hard to say. There are a lot of programs, who are not perennial top 25 mainstays, who have up and down cycles.
The higher the act/sat score the more academic money so you could get to 100% through academic+athletic
Regarding the %, there is an official definition of what the maximum allowable "full scholarship" is. The NCAA's own rules are here: https://web3.ncaa.org/lsdbi/search/bylawView?id=8807.
A "full scholarship" means tuition, room and board, fees, and books (Cost of Attendance = COA). So 11.7 means 11.7 "full scholarship" dollars, which can be divided up any way the school wants, as long as every athlete on athletic aid receives at least 25% of a "full scholarship."
So if tuition is $10,000 and room-and-board is $10,000, total COA is $20,000. If they give you a $5,000 athletic scholarship, they could call it 25% of total COA, or they could call it 50% of tuition, and both would be correct. And it would be up to you to figure it out.
I knew a family once who got confused, and only realized when they got the bill at the start of the year that the 100% scholarship was only for tuition, not COA, and they couldn't afford the rest of the costs. It was very upsetting.
@PitchingFan posted:I don't think anyone, including the high first round guys, get 75% at top 25 schools. You might get it if you add in an NIL deal in today's world but not scholarship if you are talking 75% of total cost. I heard a guy say his kid got a 75% scholarship this fall at a high P5. I said so they gave your kid 75% of total cost at that school. He said not total cost. 75% of tuition. I said so he got a 10-20% scholarship.
I'm not sure we are talking the same language at times. Top D1 schools to me is top 10% which is top 30 teams in the nation. If you make less than a 90 on a test you did not finish in the top of your class. Unless your language is TOP half. If you are talking scholarship %, then it is a % of the total costs of going to school not just tuition. The % is relative to how much the one full of the 11.7 is valued at.
For lack of understanding on my part, I looked at tier 1, 2, 3 and broke d1 up into thirds. In that case, top 75 or so would be tier 1. I wondered if a kid getting interest from a school ranked #55 might be pursued more heavily from a school ranked #200.
You are right. As Adbono said, just difference of opinion. I say a 66 in a class would not put you in the top of the class. I think 10% is top but just my opinion. So we are both right. Because everyone’s opinion is theirs.
@Northeastmom posted:For lack of understanding on my part, I looked at tier 1, 2, 3 and broke d1 up into thirds. In that case, top 75 or so would be tier 1. I wondered if a kid getting interest from a school ranked #55 might be pursued more heavily from a school ranked #200.
There’s a good chance the #200 D1 isn’t fully funded. This means they don’t have a full allotment of 11.7 scholarships. Even if they do they’re trying to bring in as much talent as they can dividing up the rides as many ways as possible.
Recruiting is a crapshoot. It’s common 50% of recruits don’t work out. It’s important to bring in as much talent as possible rather than focus on a handful of players.
Son #1 was at a mid-level D1. He got 0 (recruited walk on) /50/0/100 of SCHOOL COSTS (tuition, books and fees). He gave up 50% in junior year to get in a JC CF that helped team (this was the 1 year they had a chance to make NCAA tournament, but fell a game short, so it was a good investment), but we got the 100 IN WRITING.
That being said, he lived in a rental house w/ the 4 year starting SS who was on 50% each year, BUT HIS 50% was ALL COSTS..........so he was getting checks each month to cover rent / groceries. Their other roommate was this teams #1 pitching recruit as a Soph in HS. He started out at 40 of ALL COSTS, but by his senior year he was at 25% of tuition but he was very happy to be getting an education and being part of the team (one of the best teammates I've ever seen) He pitched a total of 14 innings in 4 years while oldest son is in top 10 in appearances at school.
It's not where you start, it's where you end and sometimes what you get is not what it seems...........and what one person gets maybe a lot to someone, and an allowance to the other. It all depends on the situation.
That being said. EVERYONE HAVE A MERRY CHRISTMAS AND SAFE HOLIDAY SEASON
@Northeastmom posted:I wondered if a kid getting interest from a school ranked #55 might be pursued more heavily from a school ranked #200.
My son was lucky to run into a scout that is now director of scouting for an MLB team. He told him, it doesn't matter where you go, if you're good we'll find you. He worked out in the offseason with him, and the guy helped him pick schools, so it wasn't an off the cuff comment.
@SomeBaseballDad posted:My son was lucky to run into a scout that is now director of scouting for an MLB team. He told him, it doesn't matter where you go, if you're good we'll find you. He worked out in the offseason with him, and the guy helped him pick schools, so it wasn't an off the cuff comment.
Not entirely related to this thread, but I hear this comment a lot, and it is 100% always coming from a scout. It may be true, but it sounds a bit self-serving and self-congratulatory, as if to say "we are so good at our jobs that we never miss". I'm just not sure the data back this up, and there wouldn't be such a battle to play D1 and P5 baseball if you would truly be found no matter where you played.
I think the difference is that when you play top level P5 it is easier to be seen. They know if you can compete at that level you can compete in MiLB at least. If you flourish at SEC or other top P5, you can play in MLB. I still say for you to be found you have to be a stud that everyone missed or you grew or got a lot better.
Chase Dollander started at Georgia Southern and then transferred to Tennessee. He would have been found at GSU but he will be top 1-5 draft picks next year because he got better at UT and flourished in SEC play.
@Smitty28 posted:Not entirely related to this thread, but I hear this comment a lot, and it is 100% always coming from a scout. It may be true, but it sounds a bit self-serving and self-congratulatory, as if to say "we are so good at our jobs that we never miss". I'm just not sure the data back this up, and there wouldn't be such a battle to play D1 and P5 baseball if you would truly be found no matter where you played.
I think it is when you get to the "bird dog" level of scout they are everywhere. Literally everyone and their brothers are birddog scouts. Doesn't mean that mistakes cannot be made.
@Smitty28 posted:Not entirely related to this thread, but I hear this comment a lot, and it is 100% always coming from a scout. It may be true, but it sounds a bit self-serving and self-congratulatory, as if to say "we are so good at our jobs that we never miss". I'm just not sure the data back this up, and there wouldn't be such a battle to play D1 and P5 baseball if you would truly be found no matter where you played.
I hear this often too. I'd like to see supporting data because I do think there are individuals who are missed.
