The good stuff.....

quote:

Originally posted by BlueDog:
Anyone missing the real hitting discussions?.....Ya know, the good stuff....

What does that mean Doggie?

Does that statement mean that all of the prior discussions have no value?

Does that mean that you return with an implicit insult to the entire community that contributes to this forum.

Bad start doggie.

Well, how 'bout it?????....Anyone missing the good stuff?..

quote:

Originally posted by BlueDog:
Well, how 'bout it?????....Anyone missing the good stuff?..

Yes - the response seems to be overwhelming. LOL

We are all eagerly awaiting more questions about how many tiny baseball players you can fit on the head of a pin.

And the ever wondrous "you dont see what you see"

Or - my personal favorite - "Creating chaos".

How about - "The high-level Swing" - Its a newie - but a goodie.

Then there is the "swing a bat into a 300 pound bag of sand."

And an old classic from 2004 - you dont need to worry about the strength of your arms, hands and wrists.

And dont listen to anyone that has played the game - particularly those who excelled at the game - just listen to the doggie - an anonymous troll

Throw in a few animated skeletons - a curve ball that doesnt really curve and about 500 insults per week.

And there you have it.

The Doggie menu - ala carte of course.



Bad doggie.

YODA........

You have returned huh......

Let me guess....what could it be this time...

Did someone hit a walk off homerun with a less than perfect swing ?

Or will it be more of listen to me (the guy who wont say how he teaches hitting or offer up any references), pat no attention to the guys who have taught this game for decades and have true real world experience in playing & coaching.

Or will it just be more of the one line insults to adults and the kids alike?

We can all hardly wait Yoda !!!!

The good posters don't waste their time here anymore...It's a shame....I do understand why, though....

quote:

Originally posted by BlueDog:
The good posters don't waste their time here anymore...It's a shame....I do understand why, though....

Doggie,

You starting trouble early in the morning?

Yoda,

"The good posters don't waste their time here anymore...It's a shame....I do understand why, though....
"

Certainly you are not including yourself as a good poster.

Strange, I have had great discussions with people since you started deleting your old posts and then vaporized.

There are plenty of great and insightful people here of all ages. It's shame the ONLY thing you can do is insult amd ridicule them.

But, then again, what would one expect from someone who starts a thread with....

"
If you're hitting the ball right at people, you're not swinging properly.....
"

and then deletes every post he puts in that thread.

or changes his profile from "I teach hitting" to "Prognosticator".


Just so you do understand Yoda, here is the dictionary's definiton of discussion.

Consideration of a subject by a group; an earnest conversation.
A formal discourse on a topic; an exposition.

Your one-line insult barrage of others does NOT constitute a discussion.

I miss some of the discussions. It is inevitable that when any topic regarding hitting is presented, it soon becomes something else.

A lot of the old posts from the "good ol' days" have become private message posts with me so we can stay on subject. As CoachB25 said, the problem is that in this forum a lot of hitting instruction turns into an "I know more than you" war and no one gets anything out of it.

quote:

Originally posted by Coach A:
A lot of the old posts from the "good ol' days" have become private message posts with me so we can stay on subject. As CoachB25 said, the problem is that in this forum a lot of hitting instruction turns into an "I know more than you" war and no one gets anything out of it.

Coach A, the problem is that I really enjoy hearing all of those differences of opinion since it gives me something to think about. I've always thought that the best way to gain insight as to what you truly believe is to hear someone else who is passionate about what they believe then measure that against your beliefs. (Does this make sense?) In the end, I know that I don't know anything and so, any thoughts, exchanges of ideas ... are a good thing at least where I'm concerned. JMHO!

I totally agree with you on hearing the differences. I just get frustrated and I think a lot of posters get frustrated when a thread turns into a battle between two individuals trying to prove a point and then the baseball discussion turns into a personal agenda. I think your posts are always really well stated and although I see your passion in your beliefs, it doesn't get off-track. "Dog" tends to get people fired up and talk in circles just to keep them that way.

I think what you bring to the table and most people on this forum bring to the table are priceless for myself and a lot of kids,parents, and other coaches that visit. Keep your passion high and keep sending your opinions. I love talking baseball with those that are as passionate as you.

This is my first post in a while. The hitting discussions have been lame. I monitor but don't respond. Some of the hitting comments are just wrong. I don't agree with a lot of BlueDog but that doesn't mean I haven't learned. Same with CoachB25, I've learned from him yet I don't agree with everything. Add Vance34 to the list. However, I am a better hitting instructor after knocking it around than before. Some of you are very good writers -- you can absolutely bash. However, at least make an intelligent comment about hitting when you do bash. NH go back and look at your posts, I give you an A for English and Composition, but what do you think about hitting? I don't care if you bash me, I'm big, but say something about hitting in the lonnnnngggg bashing so I can digest it.

I'm ugly, stupid, a terrible hitting instructor, but I like hitting ----- feed me.

Baseballpapa, you don't agree with me all of the time? LOL! Heck, I don't even agree with me all of the time. What I post works for us. I'd love to see others at work and, as you stated, I've learned so much just reading and then thinking about various posts. One thing I learned early on is that some posters are very good people and are willing to help or at least give you their honest opinion. That means a lot to me. Bluedog has often responded to pms etc. and so, I feel that I understand him better than some. I will say this, he has a passion and dares to challenge others belief systems. I've always said the same about Rshardteachermanlinear...whateverheisbeingcalledthisweek. Baseballpapa excellent point on the suggestion that even in the bashing, at least present some concept that contributes to thread.

Observation, recently a high school softball coached asked if he could buy lunch and sit down and discuss hitting. I think it took about 2 minutes for his eyes to go blank. He looked at me like I was from another planet. Ironically, that is the same response I'm sure I've caused to many posters. (I did get a free lunch! LOL!)

papa,

I do not need to go back and look at my posts. If you have read them you know I am proponet of the "no-stride" style of hitting that Albert Pujols uses. TRhit and I have had many discussions about it. We have had spirited disagreements, but none of the Yodaisms. I believe in drills and hard work, from soft toss right up through live hitting.

I also very strongly believe in listening to people who have actually taught players who are competeing at the levels we are talking about. They have the real world pratical experience of knowing what things work and what things don't.

I do not give much creedence to people like Yoda, who claim to teach, but will not back up their claims with any real evidence of doing so. I have tremendous respect for the people my son has worked with. These men have spent the vast majority of their lives dedicated to this sport. Men who have played professional baseball and have taught and coached players who are now in pro ball at every level as well as college ball.

As an example, when we are discussing aspects of tee work, and some yo-yo like Yoda comes on here just firing one-line insults at everyone about how everything we are saying is wrong, with absolutely no other input on the subject at all...well you will just have to pardon me if i believe such a person is just a fool.

If he has something real to contribute, then state it!

If you look at my profile, I do not claim to be any kind of expert. I have been very fortunate to be around many great baseball minds over the years. Another example, I was at the University of Maine from '78 to '82. John Winkin was the head coach. Those teams went to the College World series every year I was in College. Many of those players went on to pro ball. I used to watch them work out in the fieldhouse in the winter. Hitters, pitchers,... everyone was working on drills as well as taking live action as best one could do it indoors. Coach Winkin is still coaching and has over 1000 college victories to his credit. I think he knows more about teaching baseball than someone like Yoda.

Let me ask you, do people who do not know you or your reputation as an instructor just blindly give their kids & money to you? Or do they ask around about you and ask you about the players you have worked with?

Yoda on other hand used to have "I teach hitting". Well, where did he teach? Who has he taught? How would one get a lesson from him? These questions were asked of him many, many times. The only responses were more vague one-liners. Again pardon me, but I have openly stated the backgrounds of the people I have been involved with. Yoda will only hurl insults at the idea of working with men who have spent decades in the game.

We just had a nice give & take on hitting the outside pitch. There were differences, but no insults like Yoda hurls. I have had many discussions in the pitching forum as well.

The only people I have bashed in my time here are those like Yoda. People who do not want to discuss but just insult. Like you i can take it with no skin off my back, but when guys like Yoda ridicule a kid here who was only asking for help, to me that is inexcusable.

If you moderate here, why have you allowed this guy to do what he does? I'll take your word for it that you may have picked up something along the way with this guy, but go back and look at these posts of his and see if you can see anything that actually contributes to the discussion at hand. Try the one where he offered nothing but ridcule to the youngster, beastball4, in the thread entitled "any advice? hitting clips". Interesting that there was great help & discussion going on there until he started his tired act again. That is typical of all his input here since I joined this site.

quote:

We just had a nice give & take on hitting the outside pitch.

And, a player reading that give and take, still wouldn't be able to hit the outside pitch.....

Here's a hint...The length of the bat has nothing to do with it......

quote:

This is my first post in a while. The hitting discussions have been lame. I monitor but don't respond. Some of the hitting comments are just wrong.

This is an example of what has happened to the good posters......

Yoda,

For the first time you agree with me. See you can come over to the light.

But you missed the real point of what brought up the length of the bat. It was stated that you should hav eto release the top hand in order to hit that pitch. I do not believe that is the case, and as a way to show this i simply stated with the typical HS player using a 32 to 34 inch bat, you must be a long way off the plate to need to release the top hand in order to hit a strike on the outside corner.

Yoda,

so enlighten us as to how you would help a young player hit that pitch.

BLUE, good to have you back!

NH, Pujols doesn't stride? since when? Your saying his front foot doesn't move towards the pitcher? Can you describe this no stride you talk about or are you just going to state it.

NH, I know Winkin well. What in the ______ does he have to do with anything. Let him come and represent himself he is more than capabale of doing that far better than you are.

NH, why don't you enlighten us to how YOU would teach a kid to hit an outside pitch!

TELL ME, you don't consider this teaching him to hit an outside pitch.....PLEASE!

quote:

Question....How far away from the plate would you be standing? Most HS/College guys are swinging 32" to 34" bats. With a 17" plate, and the bat handle is some distance away from your body as you swing, plate coverage should not be an issue. You would have to be an awfully long way off the plate not to be able to cover the outside corner.

I can see your point if you are talking about a pitch a full baseball or more off the plate (maybe the ump having giving it all game). I would think a pitch on the corner though you should be able to hit to RF without flailing away at it with one hand. You certainly should be able to get to contact on it with two hands.

quote:

lol....good use of the math....quite convoluted...but good

I was looking at it in a much more simplistic fashion. Most hitters are taught to hit the inside pitch out in front and pull it. The outside pitch we allow to get deeper into the plate and take the ball to right.

Without heading to the drawing board and calculator, i would guess that you missed sometihng in your numbers. I have watched many players hit HRs to right on pitches on the outside corner.

A very simple method to verify you can hit the pitch your talking about with out releasing the top hand before contact. Use a hitting tee and a place the ball such that it is just touching the black on the outside. You will find they don't have to set up that close to the plate to hit that pitch. I have done this many times with my son and other players I have worked with.

You can at the same time verify they can get the inside pitch by moving the tee to the inside corner, but placing it out in front of the plate.

What you need to do NH is get your feelings off your shoulder. Read what BLUE writes and digest it. Do WE really care HOW he writes it. Are you THAT sensitive?

SO NH, what you beg of BLUE is something you yourself DON'T even do! If you clearly understand the swing and how elite hitters swing the bat then you could easily understand BLUE's post.

NH, your like the guy who wants to learn to be a better hitter and takes lessons from GEORGE BRETT then afterwards says, "I'll do it my way" BUT THANKS!

Its not BLUES WAY to hit nor is it anyone elses way. ITS THE RIGHT WAY!

quote:

Originally posted by swingbuilder:
Do WE really care HOW he writes it.

Yes - in fact - we do care. On all forums and with all posters.

As long as the dialogue follows the "Board Manners" rules laid down by the founder/owner and operator of this site - my guess is the dialogue will be helpful, interesting and maybe even full of differing opinions and perspectives.

However - if personal insults start flying - all bets are off.

"so enlighten us as to how you would help a young player hit that pitch."

What is this guy doing to hit the outside plate pitch?....

http://www.youthbaseballcoaching.com/mpg/dunn_adam1.mpeg

Doesn't set-up close to the plate....

http://www.youthbaseballcoaching.com/mpg/dunn_adam.mpeg

Swingbuilder, the thought process for Albert Pujos as well as some others is "heel - toe." Not stride. I wish I had the abilities to post some video I have on him but, to be honest, its easy enough to find it on your own. He raises up that front foot to the toe but his thought is to place that heel down and then rotate to the back toe. At least that is what happens when he is working on his swing. As you will well note, in doing so, he sets the heel down, completes the swing and that back toe more times than not comes completely off of the ground. I been fortunate enough to be there a couple of times when he has been working on it and I've heard the instruction. Perhaps you want to argue that this is then a stride. This method is what we teach/coach at our school. Seems to work. This year we will place several more players at the D-I level using this method. JMHO!

It's posture adjustment. Welcome back Dog...
I know it's not an imposter as only you know how to answer questions with questions.

NYdad, study the action of his back elbow....As per our last discussion....

http://www.youthbaseballcoaching.com/mpg/dunn_adam1.mpeg

Dog, Yes...posture sets swing plane, not the elbow, which should slot naturally.

Good clip, thanks Siggy, for showing improper and proper use of the back elbow in the swing...

http://imageevent.com/siggy/hitting/analysis?p=14&n=1&m=20&c=4&l=0&w=4&s=0&z=9

This is how "not to hit" the down and away pitch....

http://imageevent.com/siggy/hitting/analysis?p=10&n=1&m=20&c=4&l=0&w=4&s=0&z=9

Excellent clip Dog...

SWing,

Pujols uses a "no_stride" techinque. It has been discussed here 100s of times and written about in many publications. The small movement he uses to trigger his swing is NOT a stride. CoachB said it very well. There are a lot of swing keys that have been used to describe it, but stride is not one of them.

"NH, I know Winkin well. What in the ______ does he have to do with anything. Let him come and represent himself he is more than capabale of doing that far better than you are.
"

SIMPLE POINT...especially if you know Coach Winkin, would you want him or Yoda instructing your kids?


"What you need to do NH is get your feelings off your shoulder. Read what BLUE writes and digest it. Do WE really care HOW he writes it. Are you THAT sensitive?
"

Are you serious....Do we care how he writes it...of course we do, this site is visited by many young players. His "communication approach" is a joke especially when it comes to getting what ever his point is across to them.

Again, i would ask people to look at his post in
the thread entitled ""any advice? hitting clips" he did one h_ell of a job help out that kid didn't he.

Am I that sensitive?....no, but who cares, its supposed to be about the kids, Remember? Many of them are that sensitive.


As far as the math about the bats, Swing... are you actually that dense....I brought that up as a joke. The other gentleman decided to take off with it so i just played along.


"SO NH, what you beg of BLUE is something you yourself DON'T even do! If you clearly understand the swing and how elite hitters swing the bat then you could easily understand BLUE's post.
"

Hmmm...i guess im in good company out here if i dont understand what he posts. I admit it, I failed one-liner translation in college.

LOL....what i ask of Yoda?....and i dont do?...what are you talking about?

Swing, Take another look at CoachB's post. Is there some reason why Yoda can not articulate his "ideas" as CaochB did. Straightforward, NO BS....That post is very understandable.


Now, Yoda throws out a clip....then instead of telling anyone how a player would have to work to achieve a swing such as Adam Dunn's ...he just throws out another useles one-liner.

If this was the way to teach hitting to a player, then every hitting instructor out there would be just sitting kids in front of a TV and sayng..."see...thats how you do it....Now go do it."


Yoda just did it again, here.....

What is this guy doing to hit the outside plate pitch?....

Answering a question with a question....if he has some point he wants to get across with the clip of Dunn, just say it. Why all the BS?

Lets use a clip of a top MLB hitter to say here is how to do it, and one of a kid to say here is how not to do it.

Swing, if you call this teaching or instruction, go spend your life savings and have Yoda teach everyone you know how to hit.

Maybe you can enlighten me Swing......

Exactly what pearls of wisdom are buried in this classic Yoda one liner?

"If you're hitting the ball right at people, you're not swinging properly..... "

Yeah, there is a lot about the elite/high level swing in that one.

In case you forgot, the is the High School Baseball Web Site. The concept is how to teach this to the young players.

Simple example, what drills or skills would you have that young kid in Yoda clip do to get to the point where he could swing like Adam Dunn?

quote:

If this was the way to teach hitting to a player, then every hitting instructor out there would be just sitting kids in front of a TV and sayng..."see...thats how you do it....Now go do it."

In most all cases, the kids would be alot better off doing just this which you suggest.....

Now, we're getting somewhere....Some common ground.....

quote:

quote:
If this was the way to teach hitting to a player, then every hitting instructor out there would be just sitting kids in front of a TV and sayng..."see...thats how you do it....Now go do it."


In most all cases, the kids would be alot better off doing just this which you suggest.....

Yoda,

Very good...So you admit that no one needs you at all!

All players should just watch TV and learn these skills by osmosis.

NH and Coach, sure Pujols uses a no stride TECHNIQUE. BUT HE DOES STRIDE WITH HIS FOOT. In other words does a KID know what you mean by no stride. When he can clearly see Pujols FOOT move forward when he hits? PUJOLS FOOT DOES MOVE, he doesn't just lift the heel. I have 23 clips of him moving his foot towards the pitcher. AGAIN, how confusing is you saying Pujols doesn't stride to a kid who DOES SEE Pujols striding, unless you DESCRIBE the Technique as oppossed t just saying it. You guys are incorrect if you say his foot doesn't move forward.

I haven't read anywhere that Blue has put a kid down. WHY don't you stop puttig him down and just over look his post.

Why do you care how he writes it. One liner's are not against the rules here. Your stuck NH, shake yourself!

No I'm not dense, what I am is modeling you NH. Is this site for jokes or helping kids? If you don't understand what he post. Then over look it, don't comment on it, or you can contemplate what he does mean!

I suppose every coach you had NH was someone you understood all the time? I doubt it. If you don't like Blue's coaching style then go play on someone elses team.

quote:

All players should just watch TV and learn these skills by osmosis.

NH, what he is saying is KIDS need to watch the best hit and then try and copy how they do it! NH, how you see a guy swinging on TV and you teaching it MORE THAN LIKELY isn't how that guy swings the bat at all. Don't know your age NH, don't really care either, but when I was young we didn't have a guy on every corner messing kids up by teaching them how NOT TO HIT. Kids need to emulate good hitters and not listen to guys teach their interpretation of what they THINK THEY SEE that good hitter doing!

Cut thru all the banter and notice the few here that tend to comprehend and agree with what the Dog preaches regarding high-level swing technique are scouts/coaches that have spent time studying big league hitter's. Don't believe this to be a coincidence and would suggest giving more thought to what he's pitching and less on his delivery.

Swing,

When you walk you take a stride. When we ( (I am 46 by the way) were all younger the predominant way to swing was to stand feet about shoulder width and take a stride towards the pitcher. The "no-stride" technique simply starts you at the point where you would have ended up after the stride. Yes, there is still a small movement forward, but it is not a stride.

If you wish to believe that what Pujols does is take a stride, by all means continue to think that. In the words of Yoda...You wrong

quote:

Kids need to emulate good hitters and not listen to guys teach their interpretation of what they THINK THEY SEE that good hitter doing!

lol....so only a few self-ordained gurus here on this web site have any idea of how to interpret what a hitter is doing?

Men who have coached and played the sport for decades and now instruct young players are just ignorant fools.

That is the message you want eveyone to buy into?

"but when I was young we didn't have a guy on every corner messing kids up by teaching them how NOT TO HIT.
"

You probably did not have anyone around to tell you were doing it wrong either. Yuor telling me if you had access to an ex-pro player, you would have ignored him and just kept watching tv and trying to copy some player in the bigs.

Well...you go on believing what you want Swing,
I prefer to live in world where the instructor actually works with the player and can show him specfic things to do to help whatever thing he is doing wrong. No need for a 3rd party to translate it, just a good working realtionship between instructor and student.

Would you please explain why that approach is so horrific in your eyes ?

quote:

You probably did not have anyone around to tell you were doing it wrong either. Yuor telling me if you had access to an ex-pro player, you would have ignored him and just kept watching tv and trying to copy some player in the bigs

WRONG AGAIN!

NH, I lived with an ex pro player. My Dad. He taught me well. He made me do what the best do by using my eyes and watching them on TV. Then I would go hit and he would say " is that what you saw" "is that how you believe he did it".

Being an ex pro player doesn't mean you can teach hitting NH.

Your explanation of Pujols technique is LAME at best. That is not what a no stride technique is. It has more to do with the middle and how he manipulates it that would be no stride and not heel - toe.

quote:

lol....so only a few self-ordained gurus here on this web site have any idea of how to interpret what a hitter is doing?

Men who have coached and played the sport for decades and now instruct young players are just ignorant fools.

That is the message you want eveyone to buy into?

I said that? or just your poor interpretation?

NH, what I'm saying is this........what have you posted to substantiate your knowledge of the swing of elite hitters?

Paste some of your clips here. Talk about the swing. Interject some substance. ALL YOU DO IS COMBAT BLUE!

I know where he is coming from. Question is in what direction are you headed to? BUT, we do know you come from the direction of knocking Blue.

Teach us NH, what you know about the swing. The ELITE SWING!