Tiger Woods King Of All Sports?

quote:

Originally posted by biggerpapi:
I hate that I have no baseball topic but I have a question about Tiger Woods. And this has absolutely nothing to do with his "transgressions."

Has there ever been an athlete, in any sport, that has had such a huge impact on their sport?

Baseball...Babe Ruth?
Basketball...Michael Jordan?
Socker...Pele?
Football...Jim Brown?
Boxing...Muhammad Ali?
Hockey...Wayne Gretzky?



Tiger has vastly increased ratings, prize money, advertising money, the number of amateur golfers, etc. Jordan might be close, but I don't see if anyone else compares.

Nascar...Jimmy Johnson

Taking nothing away from Tigers ability but different times, different available mediums, different audiences, has served Tiger well. Can you imagine if Jack and Arnie had the pr tools at their fingertips.

The ironic thing is those same tangibles and tools may lead to his demise

With the PR tools, Tiger can be marketed as the King of Love.

When Tiger got married, I thought back then he was nuts and now it looks like marriage has interfered with what he does.

Until he passes Nicklaus on the majors list, he can't be the King of all sport.

I guess you gotta some give him credit for playing at a high level while making the effort to try to hide all these women from his wife and keep his focus on the course.

However, had he stayed single, none of this wuld be a issue and he could've remained on course to shatter every PGA recpord in existence.

I think no other athlete has contributed to make his particular sport as popular as TW has with golf, that's just the way it is.
Tiger brings the crowds, Tiger brings the money. Friends on the PG tour say hurry back soon, we can't make big bucks without you.
I am not convinced for one minute that wife had no clue, she just had no clue how many. She was embarrassed.
Tiger's has issue, Agassi had issue, Michael Jackson had issues, childhood has much to do with it. I'll bet it's like other examples, the people who control Tiger financial dealings money hungry grubbers and enablers. They know what's going on, but if they speak up and tell the boss to stop, they don't get paid anymore. If anyone really cared about him, they would have told him to watch out, it will come crashing down quickly, did they? NO.
Tiger got married to create more millions for his brand, a single guy out on the road doing everyone doesn't get family type endorsements.
Having all that money, fame and fortune isn't fun if you aren't happy.

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That was a nice addition to papi's list dswann. I would add to that list the following...

Pool...Minnesota Fats?

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Maybe Tiger was trying to break not only Jack's numbers but Wilt Chamberlains too!

Exactly, TPM There's no question his wife knew what was going on. She knew he was a hit with the ladies before they got married.

As for his place in golf, there's no question of his impact in the sport. Without him on the tour, nobody could care less about the PGA. The ratings speak for themselves.

While I enjoy golf, there's no way I watch it on TV unless Tiger's playing in the last group on Sunday. Tiger makes shots on the course that every other player can only dream doing. It's him, then there's the rest of the PGA players in the same group.

Perhaps Tiger misclculated when getting married to create more millions for his brand.

He could've still made a fortune by staying single and kept an image. He's that big in his sport and nobody could approach his status on the PGA and probably won't for a long time to come.

I keep going back to Derek Jeter. Who can have more distractions then him? Being captain of the most famous sports franchises in the world on the biggest stage in the world in the media capital.
There's a reason he's kept his distance from scandal and distraction (with maybe the exception of George stepping in once when he was dating one famous celebrity) but for the most part, has kept his image and his focus on his job intact.

Now maybe in the big picture, Jeter isn't as big as Tiger but Jeter certainly has the same potential to fall in similar traps Tiger has.

Ali, and I don't think Woods is even a close second.

The more immediate gratification we tend to crave as people, the less historical perspective we seem to have. Ali captured the fancy of people on many continents. He was the talk around water coolers, schoolyards, taverns.

I don't know how you can compare someone who won't even show his face in public and issues his statements via a website written by a publicist, to Ali who stood in front of cameras and spoke of war, Islam, oppression, and captivated millions with charisma and charm. Tiger doesn't emote or inspire. He doesn't challenge or make waves. He doesn't stand up for anything or get behind ideals.

Ali was known, loved, hated, revered, despised, and more than anything, followed, by the world.

ALI Boom bye eh

CPLZ - I agree with you. With all that you said, refer to the above post and think about the fact that Ali didn't have all the technology involved with media that Woods has today. When you consider that it's an easier marketing world today, Ali hasn't been boxing for how many years, and he's still known.... I think you're probably correct.

Also, I'm not so sure his wife knew. It doesn't matter what a man's past was if she thinks he's in love with her and will be faithful. Love is blind as they say. I suspect she has had suspicions and then found those text messages which is what began this entire soap opera. Oh, no... it didn't begin the soap opera.... Tiger's zipper did.

As TPM says, a person can appear to have it all and in the end not have much at all. Sad story on many levels.

I totally agree with CPLZ its not even close. And I believe that what drew so many who didnt care about golf to golf was this super human image that was created for Tiger. Now that these people will view him in a totally different light I think that his lure and popularity will be damaged and damaged severly.

I may be wrong. But I dont think I am. I know people who before Tiger would have never watched a tourney or cared who won. But simply watch to see Tiger. They want him to win be because they see him as this huge figure that is bigger than the game. Now that has all changed. I believe you will see people care less about Tiger. And I believe you will see those that want him to fail now instead of break records.

For me I think its time he manned up and came out of hiding. You danced big boy now pay the piper. Come out of hiding and man up and get on with your life. Your a golfer dude. Your not going to save the world playing golf. Your not bigger than the game. Your not perfect. I know you have been led to believe you are welcome to reality.

For those that put these athletes up on a throne to worship and allow others to do that for you welcome to reality. They are no different than those that live in your own neighborhood. They can just play a game better. And in many ways they are not even close to being as good of a husband , father or friend.

Seven million watch gold when Tiger plays. Two million watch when he doesn't. He's the most recognizable face on the planet.

I'm not sure I'd call Tiger a ladies man. He married a nanny and picked up bimbos. These are hardly women of charm, grace and sophistication.

I believe Tiger is the Michael Jackson of golf. He had a very protected childhood that was very closely managed by his father. All of a sudden he had fame and fortune combined with lack of social maturity.

Tiger's father died in 2006. How far back does Tiger's nonsense date? Three years. None of this would have happened under the watchful eye of dad.

If I was his age. If I had a billion dollars. If I had the ladies falling all over me like he does. What would have happened to me?

I can drive pretty darn good. No way I hit that tree and fire hydrant. I think I escape and turn it all on her. You know she is on medication dont you! lol

quote:

Tiger's father died in 2006. How far back does Tiger's nonsense date? Three years. None of this would have happened under the watchful eye of dad.

You might be on to something there. The only reason I basically watched golf was to see if Tiger could win a major. I believe not only has his personal life slipped in the last three years but his game has as well. Even though he has won a major here or there, the frequency of them have gone down. Moreover, the dominance he used to display has slipped. This was never in more evidence as he lost the PGA this past year when holding a lead in the final round.

I don't feel as judgmental toward Tiger as some do. Bascially, none of us know what it is like to have no limits on any thought that might enter our minds. Far from excusing him and his debauchery, I can see a decent comeback for him. He starts by taking this hiatus which I believe will expose many of the double standards that are out there and especially how even "good" people will/can look the other way when large sums of money are involved. You'll see the PGA tour lose the tremendous interest it has enjoyed with Tiger and thus I think they will be begging for his return. I think the sponsors may also start feeling the same way. In other words, the world without Tiger is much worse than a flawed Tiger in it. If he stays away long enough and then returns as his dominant self, people will be lining up to pay and yes admire him. It seems that is just the way our society is. I believe he can turn this whole thing around by just staying away (perhaps a few years) and bascially forcing the media to beg his return.

Back to the topic at hand, I don't think Tiger is any bigger than any of the other sports figures mentioned. I just believe he has gotten more exposure and thus he "appears" bigger. I also believe up till now, the media has wanted him to appear bigger. Jack Nicklaus is still more accomplished than Tiger yet it seems like no one even brings him up any more. Babe Ruth is still a mythic figure in baseball and all he basically had was radio exposure in his day. No one will ever convince me that the hype and distortion of the modern media out-trumps the Ruth's and the Gretzky's of other sports.

quote:

ALI Boom bye eh

Bye eh, ??

I'm not going anywhere that I know of??

Tigers not even close to being the king of all sport's.

Ali for sure.
Babe Ruth would have to be right up there.
I would put Jordan above Tiger as far as king of there sport.

EH

Babe Ruth changed the way his sport was played.

Bobby Orr preceeded Waybe Gretzky. Orr would have put up ridiculous numbers if he were a center. His numbers were insane for a defenseman.

Michael Jordan didn't win as much as Bill Russell or individually dominate as much as Wilt Chamberlain. There's nothing special about his numbers compared to other greats. Magic Johnson and Larry Bird had already brought NBA basketball to the forefront of public consciousness. One could argue Jordan didn't have a competent nemesis as competition.

While there is arguement Tiger Woods is the beneficiary of a cable/internet era, Muhammad Ali and Pele were beneficiaries of the beginning of the television era (Wide World of Sports).

Jim Brown was arguably the greatest running back ever. But he didn't change the game. The game he did change was lacrosse. There is a rule referred to as the Jim Brown rule. After Brown, players were no longer allowed to curl the ball against their chest and run over and through the defense.

Tiger Woods revived golf. The money increased incredibly. But there's already been the Jack Nicklaus - Arnold Palmer era. And for now, Nicklaus is the best ever. Palmer had the aura.

Babe Ruth is the king. He changed his sport more than any other.

Off the field the person who most impacted sports is Marvin Miller. He started professional free agency.

Tiger is married to golf. Every thing else would be a mistress.

Baseball was already "America's pasttime, pre-Ruth.

As much as I hate to consider it, I believe Pele did more to popularize his sport than any other on the list.

Pre-Pele, s***er was unheard of in part os the US except in boys PE. Pele took it from a third world sport to truly international levels and he caused the media attention, not other way around.

quote:

Originally posted by Jimmy03:
Baseball was already "America's pasttime, pre-Ruth.

As much as I hate to consider it, I believe Pele did more to popularize his sport than any other on the list.

Pre-Pele, s***er was unheard of in part os the US except in boys PE. Pele took it from a third world sport to truly international levels and he caused the media attention, not other way around.

S0ccer was the biggest sport in the world before Pele was born. Pele played in his first World Cup in 1957. The first World Cup was held in 1930.

Pele was America's first exposure to the US due to Wide World of Sports. But s0ccer didn't catch on in the US on the youth level until the '80's or '90's. It still hasn't caught on as a professional sport. I wonder how many people can name five current s0ccer players other than Beckham without looking them up? How many people could name five s0ccer teams other than Manchester United without looking them up?

The season record for home runs before Ruth was 14. He changed the game.

Interesting to see Muhammad Ali mentioned a few times. I was at a gas station this week. I saw this fellow in a leather hat, fueling up his Escalade, singing away to his radio.

There he was, plain as day. I went over and shook his hand. I said, "Yo, Champ. Good to see you." We chatted for a few minutes. He kept trying to remember my name. (we'd never met before)

Very nice man. He's a Philly guy, so I always liked him more than Ali. He seems kinds small, for a heavyweight champ.

The place was really busy, but no one else even noticed him. He got his gas and left. I don't think Ali could pull that off.

quote:

Originally posted by RJM:

quote:

Originally posted by Jimmy03:
Baseball was already "America's pasttime, pre-Ruth.

As much as I hate to consider it, I believe Pele did more to popularize his sport than any other on the list.

Pre-Pele, s***er was unheard of in part os the US except in boys PE. Pele took it from a third world sport to truly international levels and he caused the media attention, not other way around.

S0ccer was the biggest sport in the world before Pele was born. Pele played in his first World Cup in 1957. The first World Cup was held in 1930.

Pele was America's first exposure to the US due to Wide World of Sports. But s0ccer didn't catch on in the US on the youth level until the '80's or '90's. It still hasn't caught on as a professional sport. I wonder how many people can name five current s0ccer players other than Beckham without looking them up? How many people could name five s0ccer teams other than Manchester United without looking them up?

The season record for home runs before Ruth was 14. He changed the game.

From 1920 to 1932, generally regarded as Ruth's prime years, average attendance at baseball games declined and the game did not spread internationally.

During Pele's career, average attendance increased and the game spread internationally.

True the world cup existed prior to Pele, but few outside of traditional (at the time) s****r countries knew much about it.

Another difference of opinion we won't resolve.

What disturbs me is the both of you know so much about s****r! lol

quote:

Originally posted by Coach_May:
What disturbs me is the both of you know so much about s****r! lol

I wanted to reply immediately, but I had to clean the coffee off my laptop first.

Off-topic but why is s(****)r censored? Is it a way to poke fun at the sport or is it trying to censor something else (I can't think of anything else)?

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Originally posted by monstor344:
Off-topic but why is s(****)r censored? Is it a way to poke fun at the sport or is it trying to censor something else (I can't think of anything else)?

The creator of the site wanted it that way. When this site was created, soc-cer was gaining steam all over America. I believe he wanted to prevent soc-cer debates/politics from spilling over here on the hsbbweb and thus disrupting this site. IMHO, I believe that was a wise decision.

Trust me, I agonized over putting socker in my original post. I also purposely left out Nascar.

I'm thinking about all of this a little differently after reading all of your responses.

How much of each of these athletes' stardom is created by the media? There's no doubt that Tiger and Jordan had a huge advantage in this discussion with the media and marketing.

Ali probably didn't have that. Ruth surely didn't have that, nor did Bobby Orr.

Socker would only be a third-world game if not for today's politically correct media. And I just don't understand Nascar at all. Clearly publicity driven.

That being said, I don't see a sport that is impacted more than when Tiger isn't on the course.

Golf's not even a sport. It's a game. You play against yourself.

Socker has been shoved down our throat in these parts. Its so much cheaper. It takes no talent to run up and down the field for an hour. Everyone can play. No one knows what the he ll is going on anyway.

The WNBA and Socker have been forced on us. And I just ignore it.

Now some will say socker does this and socker does that. Great if you enjoy it continue to enjoy it. I personally would rather spend my day getting stung by bumble bee's than watch it.

I am very fortunate to be able to work with Muhammad Ali regularly here in Phoenix with his Parkinson Foundation as a photographer. I just spent a few days with him last week and must say, his charisma, passion and popularity has not dimmed a bit. He pretty much speaks with his eyes now but when provoked to muster the strength to crack a smile, the whole room lights up. He is truly..."THE CHAMP" !!
If I can figure out how to attach a pic, i will include a couple recents shots to show you what I mean...DM

quote:

Originally posted by monstor344:
Off-topic but why is s(****)r censored? Is it a way to poke fun at the sport or is it trying to censor something else (I can't think of anything else)?

I didn't know it was censored. That's the way I always spell it.

Really!

Interesting that Accenture dropped Tiger as their spokesman today. "He's no longer the right rep"....good for Accenture.

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What disturbs me is the both of you know so much about s****r! lol

My son is also a college s0ccer prospect, not that he cares. When he's done I'll never watch another s0ccer game. The part I do enjoy watching is there's a lot of pressure on him to succeed as goalie and cover up defensive mistakes. I do like watching world class s0ccer highlights though. The ball handling and shooting is incredible. If s0ccer modified it's offside rule, the game would open up and it would be more exciting like hockey.

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It takes no talent to run up and down the field for an hour. Everyone can play.

This is only true at the little kid, rec level. My son took off two years to play middle school football. When he returned he was way behind in ball handling skills. It forced him to be a goalie. We think the high school coach had him earmarked as a goalie from the time he was twelve. He kept calling and telling me to get him to goalie camps.

It drives the coach nuts my son won't play summer select like every one of his teammates and attend summer goalie camps. My son tells the coach goalie is easy. He said outside the eighteen yard line is like playing short and inside is like playing third. In reality he worls very hard in preseason and during the season. It's a difficult position requiring lightning quick reactions, great intuative instincts, nerve and the ability to kick and punt well. And the only athletes you will find in better condition are long distance runners. In my son's summer sessions practice started with a six mile run and ended with endless suicides.

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Socker would only be a third-world game if not for today's politically correct media.

It's the biggest sport in the world and has been for a long, long time.

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I believe he wanted to prevent soc-cer debates/politics from spilling over here on the hsbbweb and thus disrupting this site.

The issue I have with s0ccer from a baseball perspective is seeing it played in the outfield in the fall with metal stands being dragging across the infield. Fortunately our high school has a s0ccer field. But the freshman s0ccer team plays on the JV baseball field.

Tiger is just the latest version of the Madison Ave. Boxed Boy Band. One talent that can be exploited, nothing that's objectionable, so they make a package around him that's appealing. None of it's true.

Take for example the Gillette commercials where he is in the store shopping for razors. The two commentators make remarks about how everything Tiger does is a great decision. In the end, it all turns out to be the big Madison Ave bag of wind, and I'm not sure why anyone is surprised. Tiger never did or said anything truly intersting.

LOL!

Now thats funny!!!!!!!!

Poor Tiger !!!!!

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Poor Tiger

Never heard those two words put together before.

Let us not go overboard here---the boys are HS or college stars not Billionaire Golfers--- I have to believe that if we as parents did our job in their formative years they will be fine

Is it also possible that Tiger moved into this realm after his Dad passed--it is fact that his Dad had Tiger on a tight leash and had a huge part in creating the Tiger the public knew

It could be as simple as this. He is bored with married life. He is sitting around the house and getting bored. He has all the money and fame needed to go out and do whatever he wants to do. Going to Vegas and Partying his arse off was just alot more fun to him than hanging out at the crib with the wife and kids.

It may not be right. But it sure sounds about right.