According to whom? Many are playing now.
@TPM posted:I agree. And it wasn't just in baseball.
All of college sports took a hit this year. Just look at all the coaches and assistants losing their jobs or forced to retire.
And let's stop and think about the athletes that didnt play at all. Not the fortunate 6th year seniors.
You’ve lost me here. How did the transfer portal affect coaches losing their jobs or having to retire?
also do not understand why it offends you that a guy got to play because he’s a sixth year and a freshman did not.The sixth year guy took a red shirt because he was hurt and Covid gave back his fourth year of playing. Why is one more important than the other
I think in most cases this worked(s) the best for players that were underclassman last year. Definately a lot of situations where 5th and 6th year guys came back hoping to get one more year of baseball, and then had their seasons cut short/completely disrupted/cancelled. Many paying to play that last year.
Freshmen who didn't get to play in 2021 did not get to show anyone (including potential transfer schools) what they can do. Most also lost their senior year of high school, so haven't played a season for 2 years.
It's been said on here several times that players in the portal who have no game action to show will be in trouble. Presumably many are hoping that summer ball will give them that opportunity.
I fully understand that the decision the NCAA made hurt anyone who was not already in college in 2020.
as I have said any decision in life affects you according to whether it makes your life better or worse I do not think there are any less freshman playing this year than they were in previous years in the upper divisions of baseball which is where my knowledge is and why I speak on it I looked back at several D1 rosters, especially the ones that post here that are involved with. And the numbers look almost identical to what they did the previous years.
But I also understand that it helped the players were in college. Last year‘s freshmen and sophomores now are draft eligible after their sophomore year of eligibility which gives them a lot of negotiating power when it comes to the draft. The upper classes got to come back and play which many of them would not have and I don’t think as many as people think are having to pay to play because many schools honored that scholarship year.
@PitchingFan posted:Explain. How did the current players in 2020 lose? I see it as an absolute win for them. I understand the frustration of the recruiting classes but not the current players in 2020. It gave their year back abs NCAA made it clear our first priority is to current players not future players.
I’m saying without the decision to give the year back, everyone lost something. Everyone lost one season regardless of where they were in the process. It sucks, move on would have been better for sports. Guys good enough to be drafted, still would have or could have gone as free agents. The decision to take our lumps and move on would have had us back to normal.
@Smitty28 posted:It's amazing that as a result of 12-15 months of Covid, the NCAA will have caused, when it's all over, 3-4 years of chaos, disruption and in many cases ruined college athletic careers.
I am referring back to this post.
And let's not forget, to pile on more, along with a very small draft, they award D1 players a one time transfer.
Supposedly they did it to award those freshman that lost a year because they sat behind a 6th year senior. They should have made situations to avoid a free for all.
JMO
@anotherparent posted:Freshmen who didn't get to play in 2021 did not get to show anyone (including potential transfer schools) what they can do. Most also lost their senior year of high school, so haven't played a season for 2 years.
It's been said on here several times that players in the portal who have no game action to show will be in trouble. Presumably many are hoping that summer ball will give them that opportunity.
But that is through your set of glasses which I fully understand and empathize with. If you go to any ncaa regional game today and ask the parents of the players on the field, they will tell you it was a great decision through their set of glasses.
I have learned in life that no decision pleases everyone. All according to how it affects you.
@PitchingFan posted:But that is through your set of glasses which I fully understand and empathize with. If you go to any ncaa regional game today and ask the parents of the players on the field, they will tell you it was a great decision through their set of glasses.
I have learned in life that no decision pleases everyone. All according to how it affects you.
I was saying overall sports....so everyone involved. Best for the most people. If I had a senior, I would want the extra year...would I think it was a smart decision for sports, no.
I think we can all appreciate the fact that - through some lens - the decisions by the NCAA, the NJCAA and the like were good, great, positive, etc. But it carries the stench of the rich getting richer and self-centeredness. Short-sightedness. College baseball is a universe. It's comprised of many players that have since moved on, current players, and future players that are all equally important to its existence. None are more or less important in that universe.
I do not want to stir up a pollical fecal storm, but I think climate change is a decent metaphor. For those that are gung-ho about addressing it hard and fast, you often hear of the importance of its impact on future generations. Like "the environment is not just about us, it's also about all those that will come after us." But you've got extreme opinions (it's a hoax vs its Armageddon). While we should respect everyone's opinions and feelings either way, I think a balanced approach casts the widest net. I think this is where the NCAA/NJCAA missed an opportunity. No, I don't have the answers (if I were on the NCAA's payroll, I'd try harder 
), but I have to believe there were things that could have been done to make their decisions more holistic/comprehensive. Taking care of the current AND future participants equally. Or as close as possible. A bigger piece of the universe. Make everyone happy? Zero chance. But make MORE people at least somewhat/partially happy? Yeah, I do think the potential existed. Instead, all the spoils seemed to be handed out according to very stark lines that were drawn with zero regard for those outside those lines. I don't know, maybe social security is a better metaphor. There's talk that it'll soon get to point where a generation simply doesn't get it at all. Tough s@#%? Or might it better to spread the damage across a greater population and time so everybody sees some of it? Yes, the highs won't be as high as they could be, but the lows wouldn't be as low either. Life has a TON of situations where "tough s@#$" is the ONLY option available and everyone should be able to appreciate that. I just don't feel this one HAD to be one of those cases. We could have done better for a larger swatch of the college baseball universe.
@baseballhs posted:I was saying overall sports....so everyone involved. Best for the most people. If I had a senior, I would want the extra year...would I think it was a smart decision for sports, no.
I agree with you. I believe the NCAA decision to grant an extra year of eligibility to everyone hurt more people than it helped. In hindsight, a better decision might have been to give the extra year only to seniors. The situation was compounded by the MLB draft being shortened and then made even worse by the passing of the one time transfer rule. All these things happened within a short period of time. Had these events been spaced out a little more the effect may not have been as drastic. This years college freshman class was definitely impacted by all of the above. However, in competitive programs it’s unusual for many freshmen to have much of an impact anyway. So it’s very hard to discern the difference between how this year actually went for them and how it would have gone under more normal circumstances.
@adbono posted:I agree with you. I believe the NCAA decision to grant an extra year of eligibility to everyone hurt more people than it helped. In hindsight, a better decision might have been to give the extra year only to seniors. The situation was compounded by the MLB draft being shortened and then made even worse by the passing of the one time transfer rule.
The way this played out it almost seems that MLB went to the NCAA and said "Hey, we're going to reduce the draft to 5 rounds so why don't you guys give an extra year of eligibility so some really good players that don't get drafted can keep playing and be ready for us next year..."
@PitchingFan posted:Explain. How did the current players in 2020 lose? I see it as an absolute win for them. I understand the frustration of the recruiting classes but not the current players in 2020. It gave their year back abs NCAA made it clear our first priority is to current players not future players.
Current players lost if they weren't able to be drafted or were behind someone who didn't get drafted and otherwise would have been. They lost if they were behind someone who was in their last year of eligibility but was then granted an additional year of eligibility. They lost if they were on a multi-year scholarship that the school was then allowed to reduce as the result of another of the myriad special COVID-related rulings.
Regarding another post, D1 and D2 athletes are required to enter the Transfer Portal before coaches at other NCAA schools (even D3) are allowed to talk with them about a possible transfer.
I literally have one kid who has to re-examine his college decision because of the extra year and one kid who could get most of a Master's degree completely payed at Northwestern or another comparable school so I see both sides of it. I agree with @DanJ that perhaps some sort of midway point would be better but I just don't know how you do that. I also agreed that NCAA won in some weird way because the quality of college sports goes up and your current classes are placated. Having said that, at least in my personal experience, the impact is not black and white at a macro level.
When I look my daughter's college basketball team. They had 4 seniors. One left for the draft/to play overseas, one took an extra year at her school (she had missed a lot of time with two torn ACLs), the third graduated on time and the 4th went to Stanford for a graduate year. In some sense, the effect is already being mitigated by the players' decisions (not all four stayed in college basketball) but there will definitely be incoming guards at NU that will be screwed unless they are excellent. The bigs won't have any problem because we have space on the team for them. It will be interesting to see what my daughter and her classmates decide (two all Big 10 players and three starters where the current graduating class was much more uneven in their contributions to the team).
When I look at my sons future team and his friends who are freshman baseball players at D3, D1 and CC, a LOT of freshman played significant time (watching one playing 1st at ECU right now on the road to Omaha).
I pray that all of our HSBBW players find a good home; I pray that the impact of this decision diminishes more rapidly over time than anticipated; and I pray that those who feel like they were screwed eventually see something positive come out of the situation.
@Rick at Informed Athlete posted:Current players lost if they weren't able to be drafted or were behind someone who didn't get drafted and otherwise would have been. They lost if they were behind someone who was in their last year of eligibility but was then granted an additional year of eligibility. They lost if they were on a multi-year scholarship that the school was then allowed to reduce as the result of another of the myriad special COVID-related rulings.
Regarding another post, D1 and D2 athletes are required to enter the Transfer Portal before coaches at other NCAA schools (even D3) are allowed to talk with them about a possible transfer.
Well said, Rick.
@PitchingFan posted:A sidenote that most that are casual fans do not realize also is that none of the guys in the portal are eligible to play summer ball in most college leagues.
This isn't true...
Not saying there isn't A league that might not allow it, but I don't think that's a majority.
So do you know this or just saying it? The rules for every major college summer league, per an owner of a team this week to me as to why their numbers were down, is that the players have to be enrolled in a college to be eligible. If they are in transfer portal, they are considered to have been removed from enrollment at their previous school. His statement was that the transfer portal was killing some teams and adherently the summer leagues this summer. He had removed multiple players from his team because of the portal. According to him the rule is the same in every major summer league. A few exceptions but now transfer portal. If he is wrong, which ones do not have this rule since you say I am lying?
I watched a kid pitch yesterday in the Northwoods league that is in the portal. I'm not saying you are lying, It is my understanding that the NW league is the biggest league and the commentators were discussing how he had been at Arkansas. He is my son's age so I knew of him and know he's in the portal.
Can anyone provide the rule that states if you enter the portal you are automatically off the roster or not enrolled?
@baseballhs posted:I watched a kid pitch yesterday in the Northwoods league that is in the portal. I'm not saying you are lying, It is my understanding that the NW league is the biggest league and the commentators were discussing how he had been at Arkansas. He is my son's age so I knew of him and know he's in the portal.
I just sent a pm to hokieone. He is the GM (or was) for Strasburg Express.
I am fairly certain that many in portal are not necessarily off the roster.
@PitchingFan posted:If they are in transfer portal, they are considered to have been removed from enrollment at their previous school.
So transfer portal = not being enrolled in school? I didn't realize that they kick you out of school or require you to drop out if you want to leave the team.
@Smitty28 posted:So transfer portal = not being enrolled in school? I didn't realize that they kick you out of school or require you to drop out if you want to leave the team.
Of course they don't. I wonder if what PF's manager meant was that D1 coaches are pulling kids who went into the portal off summer teams, or rather (since the contracts are between the league and the kid) pressuring kids to withdraw? Many contracts were signed last fall.
@PitchingFan posted:So do you know this or just saying it? The rules for every major college summer league, per an owner of a team this week to me as to why their numbers were down, is that the players have to be enrolled in a college to be eligible. If they are in transfer portal, they are considered to have been removed from enrollment at their previous school. His statement was that the transfer portal was killing some teams and adherently the summer leagues this summer. He had removed multiple players from his team because of the portal. According to him the rule is the same in every major summer league. A few exceptions but now transfer portal. If he is wrong, which ones do not have this rule since you say I am lying?
Can you state the exact rule about summer leagues plus the one that says once you enter the portal, you are automatically off the team and disenrolled.
Thank you.
Per Northwoods League website
"To play in the Northwoods League an individual must be a current college baseball player or a recently graduated pitcher and should have aspirations of playing professional baseball."
https://northwoodsleague.com/apply/
I do not know about every kid but the ones I know that entered the portal were told they would not be allowed to play in their Summer League through the Coastal Plains League because they were considered not enrolled and not a current college baseball player as it say in Northwoods League. That is also what the owner told me this week. He had a few that he had to contact and tell they could not come as long as they were in the portal unless they got a commitment and enrolled in another school which fit into their league's level of play. They only take kids from certain levels of play. I just stated what I was told by players and a league team owner. I also texted a guy in administration with a Cape Cod League team and he said that is their rule also but it rarely comes into play for their guys.
My original statement was most of the upper leagues of college ball. Don't shoot the messenger.
The Northwoods league is full of players in the portal. There are two active posters on this board who have kids playing in the league who are both in the portal.
This kid was very highly ranked. Went in the portal 3rd week of May, joined the NW team last week according to the commentators.
If that is a rule, that is too bad. Another way the kids are at a disadvantage. If a team doesn’t want them they should be able to show their skills to other coaches.
Are those players still on team roster? Just because they entered portal may not mean they have officially separated from the team.
But waiting on clarification on that.
When an NCAA athlete (any sport) enters the Transfer Portal, that means they can be contacted by coaches at other NCAA programs about a possible transfer. It also means that their school has the right to not renew their scholarship for the following year.
Any other consequence of that (being removed from the college team, having name removed from college website roster, not being allowed to play in certain summer leagues) is not an NCAA rule. They also aren't automatically withdrawn from their college.
They would have the chance to return to the school the following year and continue progress on their degree. They would also be allowed to rejoin their team if their coach allowed it (obviously not likely, but possible).
@PitchingFan posted:Per Northwoods League website
"To play in the Northwoods League an individual must be a current college baseball player or a recently graduated pitcher and should have aspirations of playing professional baseball."
Coastal Plains player application says, "If you are a college baseball player, who is in good academic and athletic standing at your respective College/University, have at least one year remaining of athletic eligibility at your school..."
So that is worded more precisely than Northwoods. But it means you can't expand what you heard from that one league to all of them.
Just heard from Jay, hokieone. Has heard of no such thing. He said as long as they have eligibility they can play summer ball. But some leagues may have special rules.
So let's not assume that rules apply in one situation apply in another.
Thank you Rick!
Just looked at the updated Transfer Portal. Over 1700 players in there already. I guess this is what they call the new normal.
@BrownIndian posted:Just looked at the updated Transfer Portal. Over 1700 players in there already. I guess this is what they call the new normal.
This, along with extra years of Covid eligibility & reduction in MLB draft to 20 rounds, is why HS grads have no chance at any competitive D1/D2 program straight out of HS unless they have draft talent. And unfortunately that is the new normal that many people just refuse to believe.
The new normal is honestly pro baseball, except these are kids. Exit interviews just happened at our school, and I think they "took scholarships" away from more kids than they ever have on our team. One was told they were going to the portal to look for an experienced player at his position. Another freshman was one of the highest ranked kids coming into our program. I assumed he would take the spot of the senior leaving. I guess they want the money back to get a player with a D1 resume instead. It's really sad for these kids. The new normal will leave a lot of kids disillusioned. The success of some of the teams that used the portal extensively will just make this worse.
So, just to understand adbono's point: I know you usually recommend players go to a juco, but would you also say they could go to a lower/mid-major D1 from which they could then transfer up if they were looking good enough? I suppose that way, if they did not seem to have top D1 talent, they would still be somewhere they could stay for 4 years. Are those lower D1 programs bringing in HS players, or are they also shopping the transfer portal, looking for the top D1 dropdowns?
Not AdBono but I will say unless they are the stud they will not get to play at mid-major. Too many guys recruited by P5 schools that are moving down. But there is also the plus side of it. Guys like Sonny D and I could make a list of 100 players who moved from mid-majors to P5 schools and succeeded exist. Almost every P5 school has a player that moved up and helped them, some became the stars. Some grew up at school and others just got better while a few were just missed or found the right place.
I think that the waters appear to be choppy all over. I think that Ivies and some other academic mid majors have not turned and burned as many kids but that could certainly change. Columbia appeared to be a solid example in the tourney after beating Gonzaga 8-2, losing to VaTech 4-24, beating Gonzaga 15-6, and then losing to Va Tech 2-7. UPenn appeared to be their equal in conference and did some damage in early season play against Texas A&M and barely lost the auto bid to Columbia. Davidson and Wofford appear to be 2 other examples of home grown kids that had great seasons and just fell short in conference tourneys.
JUCO's (at least the above average ones at D1 & D2) have bloated rosters (like 50+ kids in some cases) and you are also dealing with drop downs mid year on top of their already bloated rosters coming in and stealing innings/AB's from kids there in the fall.
Looks to me that one needs to do more due diligence than ever before on roster construction (past and present), coaches ability to develop kids, who gets innings and AB's, and coach/staff job security.
It appears to be a mess most everywhere one wants to be at levels from P5 to JUCO D2.
I will chime in as we just went through this with our son. He was at a mid-major and was basically told "there will be very few opportunities next year as we are bringing in several players from the transfer portal." Only 2 out of the original 8 athletes that entered in with my son as Freshman in 2021 are left. There were also a few JUCO transfers that are also not sticking around - they came in and barely played and are now also looking for another 4-year college.
So my son landed at a nice D2 that is local to us and they have seen him play a ton through high school. They admitted that they are using the transfer portal almost exclusively and there are only two HS athletes coming in next year. As far as JUCO Programs go, my son talked to three programs as he was trying to decide what to do and each of them were up front about the number of kids they were bringing in this fall out of the transfer portal - several SEC and Big12 kids, etc. So as others have said, it is a challenge everywhere right now.
That's just our experience but I am sure it is similar across the board - unless you are a draft prospect type guy of course.
@anotherparent, everything that was said by @baseballhs, @PitchingFan, and @used2lurk is 100% spot on. All of them have kids that are living this right now. College baseball has always had a brutal side to it but it’s worse than ever in JuCo, D2, and D1. D3 has been impacted to a lesser extent but also has felt the effects. Of the 3 main issues that have created this sh$tstorm, the two main ones are extra years of Covid eligibility and the transfer portal. And the architect of both those creations is none other than the NCAA. You know the organization that runs all those ads on TV about how much they care about student athletes. Only problem is they don’t. They only care about the money they generate. The current system is basically a throwback to a workplace environment where the employees (players) have limited rights and very few avenues to pursue if/when they are wronged. Coaches are paid over a million $ a year in big time D1 programs and decisions are hard and cold. D3 isn’t like D1 & D2 in this respect. There is no money involved in D3 so it’s a more player friendly version of college baseball. I have said this before but IMO the most important thing to look at is the HC of the programs you are considering and ask yourself these questions: Is this a good man? Does he have good character? Does he have high morals standards? Does he treat his players fairly and with respect? These are the difference makers. In order to find out the answers you will have to talk to current and former players. You must choose a program that has a good man leading it if you want your son to have a good experience. Everything else is a secondary issue.
My D3 2021 kid was impacted by this, instead of coming in and battling for playing time as he was recruited to do, he was stuck all freshman season behind a 5th year 3B & a 5th year 1B, and he only got 5 at bats all season. And the DH who should be a Senior next year will instead have 2 more years of eligibility left.
But you know what? Life ain’t fair! It’s just forcing my kid to work that much harder.
The other side of this is: unless he gets hurt and has to take a medical redshirt along the way, my son will graduate in 4 years with less student loan money owed than the kids who stick around for a 5th or 6th year, and he’ll be able to enter the workforce (or the pros if he gets that longshot chance) at a younger age, too.