IMO what makes the Gardner-Webb situation even worse is you can't see the entire size of the roster. At least if you go to: nces.ed.gov and look at the D3s that do this you can see the entire roster size. For example Shenandoah University shows 66 players. Why doesn't GW have to list all the players? They just show 35? Is it because D1s have a cap and D3s don't?
I wasn't aware of these schools with ~1,000 co-ed enrollment and ~100 on the baseball team. That's mind-blowing that ~20% of the male enrollment is on the baseball team.
@nycdad posted:IMO what makes the Gardner-Webb situation even worse is you can't see the entire size of the roster. At least if you go to: nces.ed.gov and look at the D3s that do this you can see the entire roster size. For example Shenandoah University shows 66 players. Why doesn't GW have to list all the players? They just show 35? Is it because D1s have a cap and D3s don't?
@nycdad I would agree. The school's website should list every player associated with the team (varsity, JV, Developmental, etc)
A player that starts the season on the varisty team should remain and flagged as inactive if he is released. We've notice many cases where player with stats are deleted from the website.
- Participants
- Students who, as of the day of a varsity team's first scheduled contest (A) Are listed by the institution on the varsity team's roster; (B) Receive athletically related student aid; or (C) Practice with the varsity team and receive coaching from one or more varsity coaches. A student who satisfies one or more of these criteria is a participant, including a student on a team the institution designates or defines as junior varsity, freshman, or novice, or a student withheld from competition to preserve eligibility (i.e., a redshirt), or for academic, medical, or other reasons. This includes fifth-year team members who have already received a bachelor's degree.
Since EADA reporting is released March the following year, we recommend looking user to look at the Team Roster Insights which will provide a family the real numbers of roster reporting.
CBI has the EADA for last 10 years
A leopard does not change their spots
Shenandoah University
Click on the following link to quickly review any Roster size Team Roster Turnover Insights.
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Something I read today.
A D1 athlete as per NCAA rules with eligibility remaining must enter the portal for another coach to contact them. Any player not complying can be denied entering.
I also read that entering the portal does not mean that the player is no longer enrolled or no longer on the roster.
I am assuming that players did have prior discussion with coaches during exit meetings.
Does anyone think that this is why some schools like GW has so many names in the portal?
I have a question. I was looking at the kids listed in the portal tracker from D1 baseball. For one school I looked at 13 players were listed in the portal, but only 5 of the 13 entered after this season and most of the others are at a new school but none are listed. This may be why things look so odd for some schools. Are there numbers somewhere for kids that actually entered who have not found a new school somewhere?
@2019Lefty21 posted:I have a question. I was looking at the kids listed in the portal tracker from D1 baseball. For one school I looked at 13 players were listed in the portal, but only 5 of the 13 entered after this season and most of the others are at a new school but none are listed. This may be why things look so odd for some schools. Are there numbers somewhere for kids that actually entered who have not found a new school somewhere?
You can do a search on last year's portal on D1 baseball if you are a paid subscriber. Out of all the names listed maybe 500+ were actual transfers. I think they keep piling on names.
Remember players enter the portal so that other coaches can contact them and what you see on D1 baseball is not the actual NCAA portal transfer list.
Based on our team, it is accurate and updated accurately. May not be for all schools.
@2019Lefty21 posted:I have a question. I was looking at the kids listed in the portal tracker from D1 baseball. For one school I looked at 13 players were listed in the portal, but only 5 of the 13 entered after this season and most of the others are at a new school but none are listed. This may be why things look so odd for some schools. Are there numbers somewhere for kids that actually entered who have not found a new school somewhere?
We have 3 that are listed that entered in December, so even though it wasn't after the season, they left at Christmas.
It's not all updated on D1 baseball. Know of a player that played a whole season on a new team and still on his former team.
That’s what I thought, so much of what you see in regards to number of players from any given team may mean nothing for right now. Thought that might make sense of some of these teams that look like they have a ton of players in there, when in fact it may be two years or more worth of history
@2019Lefty21 posted:That’s what I thought, so much of what you see in regards to number of players from any given team may mean nothing for right now. Thought that might make sense of some of these teams that look like they have a ton of players in there, when in fact it may be two years or more worth of history
I would not say more than a year. It is somebody's responsibility to eventually remove players that have moved on but not sure whose it is.
JMO
@2019Lefty21 posted:That’s what I thought, so much of what you see in regards to number of players from any given team may mean nothing for right now. Thought that might make sense of some of these teams that look like they have a ton of players in there, when in fact it may be two years or more worth of history
earlier in this thread, I mentioned the analysis I ran on the D1 Baseball Tracker. There are 57 names that are the same as the prior year's tracker out of 2,024 total names. That is just under 3%.
I would just pay attention to the D1 portal on D1 baseball at this point. I do believe players have until July 1 to enter?
I just read that it is only the player that makes the corrections and adjustments, which would be withdrawal of name or addition of new school. He/She can enter their name after approval.
Is there a website for the general public to see transfer portal?
D1Baseball.com
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I just googled, and found this NCAA site with data about transfers, that you can sort by sport and for 2020 and 2021:
https://www.ncaa.org/sports/20...transfer-trends.aspx
It shows things like whether the transferring athletes had athletic scholarships, what month they entered the portal, and what percentage actually reported transferring. What I think it says is that 42% of the baseball players in the portal reported going to a new school.
D1 baseball is not the portal, but a tracker. According to the NCAA the portal is not for the general public.
If this is true, I am curious as to how this info is shared.
Does anyone else notice less and less high school commits? Usually by now, my Twitter feed has blown up with commitments. I get maybe P5's have already committed, but mid-major 2023's are usually huge right now. The amount of uncommitted 2023's is staggering. The transfer portal is killing these high school kids!
Yes it is. I have noticed a strategy by coaches to go to the portal and look for kids that got away from then from HS to a top school and then are unhappy.
I also feel for the P5 kids that get to a school to discover 24 year old grad students to play against.
For those of you on Twitter, the thread below discusses it pretty thoroughly.
What is confusing to me is everybody keeps talking about how these kids need to just go JUCO. Well, a friend of my sons went to a pretty reputable JUCO for 2 years. Played in a handful of games, completed his 2 years and is now done because he has no options. The JUCO is completely backlogged! In hindsight, he should have gone to a DII or DIII school if he wanted to actually play for 4 years, but he had his eyes set on DI. One parent said that his son's JUCO had 40 kids and will be cut to 28 in the fall. How does a kid get noticed with 28 guys on a roster fighting to play?? I just feel like some of these kids are getting false hope by telling them to "just go JUCO."
@PTWood posted:For those of you on Twitter, the thread below discusses it pretty thoroughly.
They are just scratching the surface of emotions.
As posted in May, based on our data driven observations, this is what is happening.
https://community.hsbaseballwe...of-the-juco-pipeline
The following insights are descriptive insights (6 year trending)
https://collegebaseballinsight...line-dashboard-free/
https://collegebaseballinsight...nover-insights-free/
Look at the transfer portal information, and this was predictable based on changes to the governance model.
@baseballmom01 posted:What is confusing to me is everybody keeps talking about how these kids need to just go JUCO. Well, a friend of my sons went to a pretty reputable JUCO for 2 years. Played in a handful of games, completed his 2 years and is now done because he has no options. The JUCO is completely backlogged! In hindsight, he should have gone to a DII or DIII school if he wanted to actually play for 4 years, but he had his eyes set on DI. One parent said that his son's JUCO had 40 kids and will be cut to 28 in the fall. How does a kid get noticed with 28 guys on a roster fighting to play?? I just feel like some of these kids are getting false hope by telling them to "just go JUCO."
JUCO is tough right now at the top schools. We've had multiple kids commit to good D2's recently who never played much in two years. There is a backlog at JUCO just like there is anywhere else. Having said that, if he is at a good JUCO he should be able to find a place. I have a good friend who is a D2 coach and they recruit the backups from our team. D2's are back logged with older kids too. It's is very tough on young players right now.
JUCO will clear out though. 4 years are going to be backlogged for a few more years.
@baseballmom01 posted:What is confusing to me is everybody keeps talking about how these kids need to just go JUCO. Well, a friend of my sons went to a pretty reputable JUCO for 2 years. Played in a handful of games, completed his 2 years and is now done because he has no options. The JUCO is completely backlogged! In hindsight, he should have gone to a DII or DIII school if he wanted to actually play for 4 years, but he had his eyes set on DI. One parent said that his son's JUCO had 40 kids and will be cut to 28 in the fall. How does a kid get noticed with 28 guys on a roster fighting to play?? I just feel like some of these kids are getting false hope by telling them to "just go JUCO."
Your opinions are much stronger than your base of knowledge
@adbono posted:Your opinions are much stronger than your base of knowledge
Excuse me?? You have no idea about my knowledge. And I wasn't stating my opinion, I was stating FACTS. Seriously...
Northern California Community Colleges 30 years ago would "red shirt" 20 players each year and roster 25 players.
At SRJC every player after his 2 years entered a strong 4 year program. The 1991 team finished 3rd in the STATE.
Today, players is the manager and another a coach with the Orioles, one player played MLB and is now a Scout for a Japan team, another player is hitting Coach for the Brewers, one player is Director of Promotions for SSK sports another is assistant GM of the Padres.
"It is a survival of the fit". Each player played in a strong Summer program.
Bob
@baseballmom01 posted:Excuse me?? You have no idea about my knowledge. And I wasn't stating my opinion, I was stating FACTS. Seriously...
What you call “facts” are not absolute truth. Things you say don’t apply everywhere. If you think 28 guys on a roster is too many you don’t understand a college baseball roster. Many D3s over recruit as bad as anyone. You can’t paint this accurately with a broad brush. So yes, I believe your comments sometimes lack a foundation.
What’s a JUCO? Is that some kind of new martial art?
@adbono posted:What you call “facts” are not absolute truth. Things you say don’t apply everywhere. If you think 28 guys on a roster is too many you don’t understand a college baseball roster. Many D3s over recruit as bad as anyone. You can’t paint this accurately with a broad brush. So yes, I believe your comments sometimes lack a foundation.
Did I say they apply everywhere? Don't think I said that...you just made that assumption. Yes, I am FULLY AWARE of how college baseball rosters work (shocking, isn't it!) All college levels over recruit, everyone knows that! My point was that we are giving false hope to kids to go JUCO thinking they are going to automatically play somewhere else. Whether or not my points were made from all facts or some opinions, still no need to be an ass. You are literally just picking at my comments. Grow up already.
@Consultant posted:Northern California Community Colleges 30 years ago would "red shirt" 20 players each year and roster 25 players.
At SRJC every player after his 2 years entered a strong 4 year program. The 1991 team finished 3rd in the STATE.
Today, players is the manager and another a coach with the Orioles, one player played MLB and is now a Scout for a Japan team, another player is hitting Coach for the Brewers, one player is Director of Promotions for SSK sports another is assistant GM of the Padres.
"It is a survival of the fit". Each player played in a strong Summer program.
Bob
You make a great point about playing in a strong summer program. There was a great story about an Arkansas pitcher who didn't make the post-season roster last year. Went to Duluth and played in the Northwoods League, worked on his cutter and was pitching the other day in the Super Regionals.
@IAmThatGuy posted:What’s a JUCO? Is that some kind of new martial art?
Yes it is!
@baseballmom01 Adbono delivered a tough message to you. With MY knowledge of HIS knowledge, my suggestion would be to spend less time feeling offended. Appreciate his candid words as the wake up call they should be and spend more time educating yourself. This entire universe - from D1 to D2 to D3 to NAIA to Juco requires a FAR deeper dive than your post implies you've done. Adbono's point is that is that if you're asking the questions you are, you haven't done any deep diving yet. Adbono's advice often doesn't give warm fuzzies, but that's what I love most about it. Warm fuzzies won't do anyone any good when their kid runs into one of the hundreds of buzz saws prevalent in college baseball. My advice is to listen CLOSEST to the advice that ruffles your feathers the most. Because it's super rare in this universe and knowledge (no matter how uncomfortable) is power.
Some people take the "just go Juco" advice as comprehensive. Don't. No one credible has ever advised everyone that going the Juco route is the answer for everyone. It's not a solution for everyone nor has it ever been spun that way. My son has D1 aspirations AND he had legitimate D1 interest out of high school. But D1 offers never came. He was a 2021 HS grad so Covid was a big factor in coming up short. Since he wants to go D1 AND had some legitimate D1 interest, going the Juco route was a solid option for him. He's also open to playing D2 ball so long as it's at one of the better/more competitive D2s. Given the current environment, going D2 (any D2) may not even be possible for my son. But Juco still does provide a great alternative for player's like my son. If your son has/had zero real interest from D1s or D2s, I'd argue that Juco is currently a terrible option for him. A close buddy of mine has a 2022 that just graduated. He is not D1 or D2 material and that was illustrated in the interest and offers he received. He got two offers from NAIAs. In the 11th hour, he attended a Juco Route showcase and got one offer from one Juco. Guess where he's going? The Juco. Guess why? Because he believes it can be a conduit to D1/D2. Even though the Juco program barely ever sends guys on to D1. Hardly any D2s either. The market told the kid clearly that NAIA was where he should go. But he (and his parents) chose to buy into the generic/high level advice of "just go Juco." They stopped there and skipped the deep dive. That Juco's 1B had the 2nd highest number of home runs this spring - in ALL of Juco. Guess where he's headed this fall? An NAIA school that he could have gone to straight out of high school.
If everyone is truly talking about how these kids should just go Juco, you're simply listening to the wrong people. Now that you know that, stop listening to them and get to work. HSBBW will give you everything you need, but you'll have to work very hard for it and you'll need to have a very thick skin. 99% of the baseball world has wound you up in all sorts of bad ways. You come here to unwind it. It's a process. The best advice I can give you to start unwinding it now. No matter how uncomfortable much of it is.
@baseballmom01 posted:My point was that we are giving false hope to kids to go JUCO thinking they are going to automatically play somewhere else.
No, WE are not giving kids false hope. The people YOU've been listening to most, are the ones peddling false hope. I've only been here on HSBBW for a couple years, but I've not seen people here giving false hope to anyone. And that's a huge part of why I think HSBBW is gold - even when it's tough. ESPECIALLY when it's tough. YMMV
@DanJ posted:@baseballmom01 Adbono delivered a tough message to you. With MY knowledge of HIS knowledge, my suggestion would be to spend less time feeling offended. Appreciate his candid words as the wake up call they should be and spend more time educating yourself. This entire universe - from D1 to D2 to D3 to NAIA to Juco requires a FAR deeper dive than your post implies you've done. Adbono's point is that is that if you're asking the questions you are, you haven't done any deep diving yet. Adbono's advice often doesn't give warm fuzzies, but that's what I love most about it. Warm fuzzies won't do anyone any good when their kid runs into one of the hundreds of buzz saws prevalent in college baseball. My advice is to listen CLOSEST to the advice that ruffles your feathers the most. Because it's super rare in this universe and knowledge (no matter how uncomfortable) is power.
Some people take the "just go Juco" advice as comprehensive. Don't. No one credible has ever advised everyone that going the Juco route is the answer for everyone. It's not a solution for everyone nor has it ever been spun that way. My son has D1 aspirations AND he had legitimate D1 interest out of high school. But D1 offers never came. He was a 2021 HS grad so Covid was a big factor in coming up short. Since he wants to go D1 AND had some legitimate D1 interest, going the Juco route was a solid option for him. He's also open to playing D2 ball so long as it's at one of the better/more competitive D2s. Given the current environment, going D2 (any D2) may not even be possible for my son. But Juco still does provide a great alternative for player's like my son. If your son has/had zero real interest from D1s or D2s, I'd argue that Juco is currently a terrible option for him. A close buddy of mine has a 2022 that just graduated. He is not D1 or D2 material and that was illustrated in the interest and offers he received. He got two offers from NAIAs. In the 11th hour, he attended a Juco Route showcase and got one offer from one Juco. Guess where he's going? The Juco. Guess why? Because he believes it can be a conduit to D1/D2. Even though the Juco program barely ever sends guys on to D1. Hardly any D2s either. The market told the kid clearly that NAIA was where he should go. But he (and his parents) chose to buy into the generic/high level advice of "just go Juco." They stopped there and skipped the deep dive. That Juco's 1B had the 2nd highest number of home runs this spring - in ALL of Juco. Guess where he's headed this fall? An NAIA school that he could have gone to straight out of high school.
If everyone is truly talking about how these kids should just go Juco, you're simply listening to the wrong people. Now that you know that, stop listening to them and get to work. HSBBW will give you everything you need, but you'll have to work very hard for it and you'll need to have a very thick skin. 99% of the baseball world has wound you up in all sorts of bad ways. You come here to unwind it. It's a process. The best advice I can give you to start unwinding it now. No matter how uncomfortable much of it is.
I'm kind of curious where you are NOT hearing it? Maybe you should look beyond HSBBW. Just a way for you to educate yourself as well.
@DanJ posted:No, WE are not giving kids false hope. The people YOU've been listening to most, are the ones peddling false hope. I've only been here on HSBBW for a couple years, but I've not seen people here giving false hope to anyone. And that's a huge part of why I think HSBBW is gold - even when it's tough. ESPECIALLY when it's tough. YMMV
I am talking about other areas outside of HSBBW. It is all over social media.
With the amount of D1 dropdown to the JC level the best route is probably something that hasn't really been discussed on here - yet. It is becoming more apparent that the most efficient route to making it at the D1 level is to play at a school a step or so below your level where you're going to be the man getting a ton of money and attention from the staff. You perform well enough you enter the portal. At oldest son's current P5 they cherry picked mid major and lower level D1 players for holes they knew they'd have. That also involved cutting at least 10 guys who were recruited out of HS.
In youngest sons case, he is committed to a decent mid major in a good conference. He had P5 offers and interest from others. Mostly 25-30% offers, he went with more money for the better fit.
Since he committed, his height, weight and velo are way up. He has the P5s who were recruiting him calling him again and others asking if he's happy with his current situation. Asking his HS coach if he might be open to a change of scenery if he keeps developing.
This was unheard of 2/3 years ago. I believe it will be the norm. The best guys in average or losing programs will be sold on winning, the World Series, the draft, the NIL benefits. It will be hard for the little guy to keep up.
Lots of long posts about lots of things, but the bottom line is this:
Unless you are a "stud".............GO SOMEWHERE WHERE YOU KNOW THAT YOU CAN PLAY and play soon, not where you think you can play.............and if you're a stud, make sure that you're THE stud. Below is Tennesse's 2019 recruiting class. I'm sure that McHugh's parents thought that this was the best situation for him. After a bit of research, seems he transferred after fall of 1ST SEMESTER at Tennessee. I don't pretend to know the whole story, but if I had to guess, I'd think that he figured out (or was told) that he MIGHT be sitting behind 2 1st round draft picks in the same recruiting class (let alone the upper classmen ahead of him).
We've went through the recruiting process 2X with our boys.
1st time was with a 2 way (C and P) 2015 high school player. Lots of attention from JUCO, DII, and DIII, but he wanted to be a D1. So he got a preferred walk on at local D1. Earned a spot through hard work and got 50% of school paid for over 4 years. Maxed out his baseball potential. Looking back, he wishes he would have went to a smaller school and been a bigger fish in a smaller pond.
Just finished up the recruiting process w/ 2022. On everyone's radar as Freshman because he was a "baseball player" who helped his team win. Good measurables, but nothing that stands out. Then covid hit and he lost a year. Then he tore his ACL and he lost his jr. year and the phone that used to have 1/2 messages a night from coaches, started getting dusty. He ended up committing to a JUCO coach who had seen him play 2/3 times his junior summer, but who remembered him from a HS game in a town where he used to be an assistant coach during his freshman year (he was there recruiting a Sr. on the other team).............so you really NEVER KNOW when someone maybe watching you. He has a great start to his senior season, and D1 coaches start contacting him again......."we've got a spot", "we'll get you money next year", "we just needed to see you healthy", "we're full right now but a spot may open up", but he also knows what his friends have went through at the D1 level due to COVID AND the PORTAL by playing against MEN who may be 5-6 years older. He stuck to his guns, and provided that he plays well, I anticipate that he'll get plenty of playing time and at bats the next 2 years. If he takes care of his business, in 2 years he'll be the one that others will be worried about taking their spot on a D1 roster.
IF YOU CAN HIT (better than the kids at your level) YOU WON'T SIT.
YOU CAN'T GET BETTER SITTING.
Good luck all.
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I just feel like some of these kids feel like some of these kids are getting false hope by telling them to “just go JUCO.”
Time at a JuCo allows a player to develop physically, emotionally and/or academically. But they still need the talent to get on the field.
A JuCo might be a great place for the 18yo skinny kid with gap power to fill out and turn into a power hitter. But he still needs to be making solid contact to play. Now JuCo’s are beneficiaries of the same talent push down due to older D1 players as D2 and D3.
I wonder how many kids head for a JuCo not knowing it’s essentially a farm team for a handful of D1’s. The kid buying time unknowingly walks into a pit of talent he lacks.
@DanJ posted:@baseballmom01 Adbono delivered a tough message to you. With MY knowledge of HIS knowledge, my suggestion would be to spend less time feeling offended. Appreciate his candid words as the wake up call they should be and spend more time educating yourself. This entire universe - from D1 to D2 to D3 to NAIA to Juco requires a FAR deeper dive than your post implies you've done. Adbono's point is that is that if you're asking the questions you are, you haven't done any deep diving yet. Adbono's advice often doesn't give warm fuzzies, but that's what I love most about it. Warm fuzzies won't do anyone any good when their kid runs into one of the hundreds of buzz saws prevalent in college baseball. My advice is to listen CLOSEST to the advice that ruffles your feathers the most. Because it's super rare in this universe and knowledge (no matter how uncomfortable) is power.
Some people take the "just go Juco" advice as comprehensive. Don't. No one credible has ever advised everyone that going the Juco route is the answer for everyone. It's not a solution for everyone nor has it ever been spun that way. My son has D1 aspirations AND he had legitimate D1 interest out of high school. But D1 offers never came. He was a 2021 HS grad so Covid was a big factor in coming up short. Since he wants to go D1 AND had some legitimate D1 interest, going the Juco route was a solid option for him. He's also open to playing D2 ball so long as it's at one of the better/more competitive D2s. Given the current environment, going D2 (any D2) may not even be possible for my son. But Juco still does provide a great alternative for player's like my son. If your son has/had zero real interest from D1s or D2s, I'd argue that Juco is currently a terrible option for him. A close buddy of mine has a 2022 that just graduated. He is not D1 or D2 material and that was illustrated in the interest and offers he received. He got two offers from NAIAs. In the 11th hour, he attended a Juco Route showcase and got one offer from one Juco. Guess where he's going? The Juco. Guess why? Because he believes it can be a conduit to D1/D2. Even though the Juco program barely ever sends guys on to D1. Hardly any D2s either. The market told the kid clearly that NAIA was where he should go. But he (and his parents) chose to buy into the generic/high level advice of "just go Juco." They stopped there and skipped the deep dive. That Juco's 1B had the 2nd highest number of home runs this spring - in ALL of Juco. Guess where he's headed this fall? An NAIA school that he could have gone to straight out of high school.
If everyone is truly talking about how these kids should just go Juco, you're simply listening to the wrong people. Now that you know that, stop listening to them and get to work. HSBBW will give you everything you need, but you'll have to work very hard for it and you'll need to have a very thick skin. 99% of the baseball world has wound you up in all sorts of bad ways. You come here to unwind it. It's a process. The best advice I can give you to start unwinding it now. No matter how uncomfortable much of it is.
I think you misunderstood as well. My son is currently starting at a DI mid-major. I was referring to a friend of his who just graduated from a JUCO.