Transfer portal baseball

@PABaseball

Yes!! This is what I was referring to with my son’s friend.  He was not a DI player but he was convinced. He was DII at best and probably more DIII or NAIA. If he would have went one of those routes, he might have been able to build on what he had and transferred but instead he got stuck behind some potential DI guys and hardly saw the field. He can’t be the only kid whose been in this situation which was the reason for my questioning.

My son also had offers from P5 schools as either a preferred walk-on or very little money. He chose to go to a mid-major where he was wanted and started as a true freshman with a 50% scholarship and so happy he did. Loves his school, his teammates and they are very successful. I think your point is dead on!

@baseballmom01 posted:

What is confusing to me is everybody keeps talking about how these kids need to just go JUCO.  Well, a friend of my sons went to a pretty reputable JUCO for 2 years.  Played in a handful of games, completed his 2 years and is now done because he has no options.  The JUCO is completely backlogged!  In hindsight, he should have gone to a DII or DIII school if he wanted to actually play for 4 years, but he had his eyes set on DI.  One parent said that his son's JUCO had 40 kids and will be cut to 28 in the fall.  How does a kid get noticed with 28 guys on a roster fighting to play??  I just feel like some of these kids are getting false hope by telling them to "just go JUCO."   

As you are aware, every level will have a backlog, student athletes and parents need to do their homework.

@CollegebaseballInsights

Totally agree!!  I just feel like all I see out on social media is the JUCO push instead of really telling kids to look at all options which may include playing down a level or really researching to find a school that really wants you.  

@d-mac posted:

JUCO is tough right now at the top schools.  We've had multiple kids commit to good D2's recently who never played much in two years.  There is a backlog at JUCO just like there is anywhere else.  Having said that, if he is at a good JUCO he should be able to find a place.  I have a good friend who is a D2 coach and they recruit the backups from our team.  D2's are back logged with older kids too.  It's is very tough on young players right now.   

Here is the overall trend for JUCOs pipeline.

Note prior years before 2020, might have some revisions are to reconcile, similar to reviewing US Census for genealogy.

Mom101, is your son playing in the Northwoods League this summer?

Bob

@Consultant posted:

Mom101, is your son playing in the Northwoods League this summer?

Bob

Yes

@baseballmom01 posted:

Did I say they apply everywhere?  Don't think I said that...you just made that assumption.  Yes, I am FULLY AWARE of how college baseball rosters work (shocking, isn't it!)   All college levels over recruit, everyone knows that!  My point was that we are giving false hope to kids to go JUCO thinking they are going to automatically play somewhere else.  Whether or not my points were made from all facts or some opinions, still no need to be an ass.  You are literally just picking at my comments.  Grow up already.

@baseballmom01 posted:

I'm kind of curious where you are NOT hearing it?  Maybe you should look beyond HSBBW.  Just a way for you to educate yourself as well.

Hey all, I don't know where this went off the rails IMHO, everybody is stating the same thing.

PLACEMENT IN THE POST COVID ENVIRONMENT IS TOUGH. To what factor????

Note, everybody on this forum has been discussing what was going to happen for more than a year.

Nobody has assumed there is a one size fits all approach,  remember there is but so much we all type out in  the forum.

Note, I read into everything brought to this forum by this knowledgeable group.

The dynamics by level is regional where each has their own nuances.

I respect and enjoy reading everybody's area experiences.

Y'all might my head hurt.

@IAmThatGuy posted:

What’s a JUCO? Is that some kind of new martial art?

WU-Tan Clan spoke about JUCO in the 90s.   C.R.E.A.M  - "Cash Rules Everything Around Me"

@baseballmom01 posted:

@CollegebaseballInsights

Totally agree!!  I just feel like all I see out on social media is the JUCO push instead of really telling kids to look at all options which may include playing down a level or really researching to find a school that really wants you.  

@baseballmom01 Understood.  If you see me on twitter, I'm posting JUCO Content because of marketing.  Posting generic information about how to research schools doesn't have the necessary importance of basic research.

I've noticed it doesn't get the number of looks vs me posting JUCO Pipeline Insights.

Here is some of the trends that I saw last week.

Initial spike was based on posting Top 25 W/L records since 2017 by division.

The second spike was based on Top 25 JUCO Pipelines in 2022.

I'm noticing a lot of retweets with this content.

Wow. Didn’t mean for this to turn into a fight. The key statement was that JUCO is a good option for “many who had not considered it before.” It does not say it is the best or only option. And the discussion below the original tweet outlines a lot of the macro conditions we discuss on this page. But everyone has to understand their own kid, his life goals, his temperament and where he is on the development (personal, baseball and academic) continuum. But the bottom line is the flection points are different now and players need to look at options with more openness than ever before.

@CollegebaseballInsights

Thank you for the insight (no pun intended).  I can see where the JUCO conversation is definitely a huge topic.  I appreciate the explanation and not just being told I don't know what I am talking about.  My husband played baseball in college, but I was the one who helped my son through the whole recruiting process so I can say I do know a thing or two.  I love to learn from this site which is why I posed the question and instead of getting answers right away, I got insulted.

Coming from the midwest, the JUCO pipeline just isn't the same as it is down south.  My son plays for a mid-major in the midwest and in the last 2 years almost all our JUCO guys came from the south (Florida and Texas.)

So again, I appreciate you taking the time to give me some more information. 

@baseballmom01 posted:

@CollegebaseballInsights

Thank you for the insight (no pun intended).  I can see where the JUCO conversation is definitely a huge topic.  I appreciate the explanation and not just being told I don't know what I am talking about.  My husband played baseball in college, but I was the one who helped my son through the whole recruiting process so I can say I do know a thing or two.  I love to learn from this site which is why I posed the question and instead of getting answers right away, I got insulted.

Coming from the midwest, the JUCO pipeline just isn't the same as it is down south.  My son plays for a mid-major in the midwest and in the last 2 years almost all our JUCO guys came from the south (Florida and Texas.)

So again, I appreciate you taking the time to give me some more information.

@baseballmom01 That was my thoughts, my real target audience is the baseball Mom (lol).  They are normally the individuals asking the questions.

Boys just want to get it over with and play.

Fathers just want to watch their boys play (yes, they will also do some deep dive analysis).

Moms are the planners, spending countless hours researching.

We are trying to provide a good experience with the research process by providing visual insights.

Make the broccoli edible (LOL)

Research is tough, need to plan it out early as for you at some point you will need to pivot.

I think everyone adds something of value in this topic.

I strongly believe a lot has to do with where you live. Here in FL there are no D3 or NAIA programs. Choices are 3 P5 programs, numerous D2 mostly private programs, many of which are very, very expensive and many ranked Jucos. So when asked, as I have been on occassion I have  recommended the Juco route as they are extremely affordable for FL players to gain admission and a chance to play at FL mid D1 programs. Ideal for most but thinking that perhaps that might not always be the best advice considering the current situation.

I do know of players that because of prepay and lottery $$$, almost 2 free years of Juco was worth more than a private D2 or D1 walk on. That worked for them and their financial situations. Many do head to D3 programs up north.

I didn't read all of the posts but have noticed a trend. Players attending smaller mid d1 programs, getting good to excellent instruction by younger coaching staffs are moving up to P5 for draft opportunity.

I agree, a player has to explore all options with the biggest factor being,  go where you will play not where you think you might play! As far as the love, the coach may love you but that doesn't mean you will play as much as you would like.

Help your player to understand that their ability and HOW HARD they work at becoming a better player will dictate success, at any level.

I like the idea of the portal. I don't think it was put in place necessarily to benefit college baseball but it's here and its not going away.

What I don't care for is the idea of bringing players into your program thinking they will make it better. If that were the case you would not see so many coaches and their staff getting replaced.

JMO

@TPM posted:

I think everyone adds something of value in this topic.

I strongly believe a lot has to do with where you live. Here in FL there are no D3 or NAIA programs. Choices are 3 P5 programs, numerous D2 mostly private programs, many of which are very, very expensive and many ranked Jucos. So when asked, as I have been on occassion I have  recommended the Juco route as they are extremely affordable for FL players to gain admission and a chance to play at FL mid D1 programs. Ideal for most but thinking that perhaps that might not always be the best advice considering the current situation.

I do know of players that because of prepay and lottery $$$, almost 2 free years of Juco was worth more than a private D2 or D1 walk on. That worked for them and their financial situations. Many do head to D3 programs up north.

I didn't read all of the posts but have noticed a trend. Players attending smaller mid d1 programs, getting good to excellent instruction by younger coaching staffs are moving up to P5 for draft opportunity.

I agree, a player has to explore all options with the biggest factor being,  go where you will play not where you think you might play! As far as the love, the coach may love you but that doesn't mean you will play as much as you would like.

Help your player to understand that their ability and HOW HARD they work at becoming a better player will dictate success, at any level.

I like the idea of the portal. I don't think it was put in place necessarily to benefit college baseball but it's here and its not going away.

What I don't care for is the idea of bringing players into your program thinking they will make it better. If that were the case you would not see so many coaches and their staff getting replaced.

JMO

JMO, Agree.

Here is a tweet that we did last week with respects to Florida State Participation Insights

BTW, Florida does have a NAIA presence

Southeastern won the 2022 championship

https://www.naia.org/sports/bs...Releases/WSChampions

Since 2017, they have the best record

@CollegebaseballInsights

You are right forgot. It's just not one of those much talked about programs here in FL.

@baseballmom01 posted:

I am talking about other areas outside of HSBBW.  It is all over social media.

That's fine, but you said "we." I am well aware what THEY are saying.

@TPM posted:

I strongly believe a lot has to do with where you live. Here in FL there are no D3 or NAIA programs. Choices are 3 P5 programs, numerous D2 mostly private programs, many of which are very, very expensive and many ranked Jucos. So when asked, as I have been on occassion I have  recommended the Juco route as they are extremely affordable for FL players to gain admission and a chance to play at FL mid D1 programs. Ideal for most but thinking that perhaps that might not always be the best advice considering the current situation.

This is very important to consider. Juco route is a great option for a lot of kids, unfortunately it is region dependent. The jucos in my area are pretty good programs that win a lot, but when it comes to placement they simply don't place their kids very well. A lot of bad D1s and D2s. It's a cost saver, but in terms of advancing your baseball career they leave a lot to be desired. In Tx, Fl, and others, jucos are basically farm teams for NCAA tournament teams.

On the other end of the spectrum, there are no NAIA schools and we are flooded with D3s, too many. There are a ton of great D3 options academically around here that are also competitive.

@TPM posted:

I think everyone adds something of value in this topic.

I strongly believe a lot has to do with where you live. Here in FL there are no D3 or NAIA programs. Choices are 3 P5 programs, numerous D2 mostly private programs, many of which are very, very expensive and many ranked Jucos. So when asked, as I have been on occassion I have  recommended the Juco route as they are extremely affordable for FL players to gain admission and a chance to play at FL mid D1 programs. Ideal for most but thinking that perhaps that might not always be the best advice considering the current situation.

I do know of players that because of prepay and lottery $$$, almost 2 free years of Juco was worth more than a private D2 or D1 walk on. That worked for them and their financial situations. Many do head to D3 programs up north.

I didn't read all of the posts but have noticed a trend. Players attending smaller mid d1 programs, getting good to excellent instruction by younger coaching staffs are moving up to P5 for draft opportunity.

I agree, a player has to explore all options with the biggest factor being,  go where you will play not where you think you might play! As far as the love, the coach may love you but that doesn't mean you will play as much as you would like.

Help your player to understand that their ability and HOW HARD they work at becoming a better player will dictate success, at any level.

I like the idea of the portal. I don't think it was put in place necessarily to benefit college baseball but it's here and its not going away.

What I don't care for is the idea of bringing players into your program thinking they will make it better. If that were the case you would not see so many coaches and their staff getting replaced.

JMO

Here are some insights of Southeastern (FL)

Transfers

Sorry for the blurriness of the details Transfers.

Aggregate count:

NCAA-D1 - 16

NCAA-D2 - 2

NAIA      -1

NJCAA-D1 - 16

NJCAA-D2 - 2

@baseballmom01 posted:

@CollegebaseballInsights

Thank you for the insight (no pun intended).  I can see where the JUCO conversation is definitely a huge topic.  I appreciate the explanation and not just being told I don't know what I am talking about.  My husband played baseball in college, but I was the one who helped my son through the whole recruiting process so I can say I do know a thing or two.  I love to learn from this site which is why I posed the question and instead of getting answers right away, I got insulted.

Coming from the midwest, the JUCO pipeline just isn't the same as it is down south.  My son plays for a mid-major in the midwest and in the last 2 years almost all our JUCO guys came from the south (Florida and Texas.)

So again, I appreciate you taking the time to give me some more information.

@baseballmom01

BTW

The 2 JUCOs with the most 4yr alumni at 4 yr schools in 2022 are from the Midwest.

Iowa Western

Wabash Valley

@PABaseball posted:

This is very important to consider. Juco route is a great option for a lot of kids, unfortunately it is region dependent. The jucos in my area are pretty good programs that win a lot, but when it comes to placement they simply don't place their kids very well. A lot of bad D1s and D2s. It's a cost saver, but in terms of advancing your baseball career they leave a lot to be desired. In Tx, Fl, and others, jucos are basically farm teams for NCAA tournament teams.

On the other end of the spectrum, there are no NAIA schools and we are flooded with D3s, too many. There are a ton of great D3 options academically around here that are also competitive.

@Pabaseball  the challenge with the Northeast is limited number of D1 jucos.  Harford is a d1 that acts like a D2 with respect to scholarship. Note, this could have changed in the last 8 years, but when they recruited my son, there was no campus, thus you rent an apartment (shared with teammates) and received the in-district tuition vs (in-state or out-of-state)

In 2022, Lackwanna (D2) has the most alumni at 4 yr schools.

@TPM posted:

I think everyone adds something of value in this topic.

TPM - Thank you for seeing me! Means a lot to me.

@russinfortworth posted:

Lots of long posts about lots of things, but the bottom line is this:

Unless you are a "stud".............GO SOMEWHERE WHERE YOU KNOW THAT YOU CAN PLAY and play soon, not where you think you can play.............and if you're a stud, make sure that you're THE stud.  Below is Tennesse's 2019 recruiting class.  I'm sure that McHugh's parents thought that this was the best situation for him.  After a bit of research, seems he transferred after fall of 1ST SEMESTER at Tennessee. I don't pretend to know the whole story, but if I  had to guess, I'd think that  he figured out (or was told) that he MIGHT be sitting behind 2 1st round draft picks in the same recruiting class (let alone the upper classmen ahead of him).

We've went through the recruiting process 2X with our boys.

1st time was with a 2 way (C and P) 2015 high school player.  Lots of attention from JUCO, DII, and DIII, but he wanted to be a D1.  So he got a preferred walk on at local D1.  Earned a spot through hard work and got 50% of school paid for over 4 years.  Maxed out his baseball potential.  Looking back, he wishes he would have went to a smaller school and been a bigger fish in a smaller pond.

Just finished up the recruiting process w/ 2022.  On everyone's radar as Freshman because he was a "baseball player" who helped his team win.  Good measurables, but nothing that stands out.  Then covid hit and he lost a year.  Then he tore his ACL and he lost his jr. year and the phone that used to have 1/2 messages a night from coaches, started getting dusty.  He ended up committing to a JUCO coach who had seen him play 2/3 times his junior summer, but who remembered him from a HS game in a town where he used to be an assistant coach during his freshman year (he was there recruiting a Sr. on the other team).............so you really NEVER KNOW when someone maybe watching you.  He has a great start to his senior season, and D1 coaches start contacting him again......."we've got a spot", "we'll get you money next year", "we just needed to see you healthy", "we're full right now but a spot may open up", but he also knows what his friends have went through at the D1 level due to COVID AND the PORTAL by playing against MEN who may be 5-6 years older.  He stuck to his guns, and provided that he plays well, I anticipate that he'll get plenty of playing time and at bats the next 2 years.  If he takes care of his business, in 2 years he'll be the one that others will be worried about taking their spot on a D1 roster.

IF YOU CAN HIT (better than the kids at your level) YOU WON'T SIT.

YOU CAN'T GET BETTER SITTING.

Good luck all.

You got me interested.  There are 21 guys in that recruiting class which includes my son.  5 never made it to campus at all.  10 are still there and as you said 2 will be first rounders.  7 of the 10 did not get significant innings until this year but they waited their time and 6 of them were significant or starters this year.  So 9 of 21 were still there this year contributing and you could really say 9 of 15.  Because 5 didn't come and one quit early in fall of first year.  But most are not willing to wait their turn whether it is at a P5 or juco.  Waiting is not easy.  I also know a couple that transferred down and are playing every game and have told my son that is probably where they belonged all along but they had a dream of playing at UT.  They tried it for one year and made a life decision that was right for them.  I've said before that we had a plan B and C when son left for UT and fortunately Plan A worked and he will graduate, played on SEC Championship team and start a masters with another 2 years he can play.  My son was not the STUD nationally the way most would define a stud but he was successful and it has worked for him.  But he worked his tail off to get there.

@CollegebaseballInsights posted:

@baseballmom01

BTW

The 2 JUCOs with the most 4yr alumni at 4 yr schools in 2022 are from the Midwest.

Iowa Western

Wabash Valley

For sure IWCC is by far the top JUCO in my area.  It is well known that if you want a chance to go DI, this is where you need to go.  The problem is that there's not much more than that within the upper midwest.  Lots of DII and DIII schools.

Wabash Valley says hello

@baseballmom01 posted:

For sure IWCC is by far the top JUCO in my area.  It is well known that if you want a chance to go DI, this is where you need to go.  The problem is that there's not much more than that within the upper midwest.  Lots of DII and DIII schools.

Indian Hills sends a lot of players to D1.  They beat Iowa Western in 2021, too

John Logan says what’s up?

Heartland says what’s up?

@adbono posted:

Heartland says what’s up?

Parkland

@adbono posted:

Heartland says what’s up?

@adbono posted:

John Logan says what’s up?

@adbono posted:

Parkland

Thanks CBI for posting supporting data. There are more than a few very, very good JuCo baseball programs in the Midwest.

@adbono posted:

Thanks CBI for posting supporting data. There are more than a few very, very good JuCo baseball programs in the Midwest.

Midwest, yes.  Upper midwest..not so much. 

Madison says hello

@PTWood posted:

Wow. Didn’t mean for this to turn into a fight. The key statement was that JUCO is a good option for “many who had not considered it before.” It does not say it is the best or only option. And the discussion below the original tweet outlines a lot of the macro conditions we discuss on this page. But everyone has to understand their own kid, his life goals, his temperament and where he is on the development (personal, baseball and academic) continuum. But the bottom line is the flection points are different now and players need to look at options with more openness than ever before.

Nailed the dismount Paula...10.0!  JUCO can be a great option for many at this point in time.  All the advice provided on this website is great but it is up the parent and recruit to understand how to apply it and understand what is going on around them.

"The times, they are a changin". -- Bob Dylan

There are good (to great) JuCo options in most parts on the country. The NE part of the US may be the notable exception. You may have to stray a bit farther from home than you want. But if you do good research you can find good opportunities. Good research includes looking at : roster size, roster management, roster turnover, experience & stability of the coaching staff, history of advancing their players, academic standards, social environment, living arrangements, strength of schedule, facilities, culture of the program, what players are returning, talking to current and former players, etc. If you do these things the chances of having a good JuCo experience increase exponentially. Same is true in evaluating any school really. But IMO most parents just don’t do enough homework when evaluating JuCo offers. Then they complain on social media when things don’t work out. Caveat Emptor applies to everything. But especially to college baseball. So much misinformation is out there!

IMO the single biggest problem in college baseball recruiting today is the widespread belief of HS players and parents that they are top 50 D1 players. Scouting services (PG, PBR), social media, private instructors, and traveL ball orgs fuel this belief. For their own benefit and to the detriment of the players. The result is players not recognizing that the times they are a changin’. The transfer portal is (and will continue to) penalizing those that are hanging on to old beliefs in spite of overwhelming evidence that shows a different path will offer a better chance to have success.

@adbono posted:

IMO the single biggest problem in college baseball recruiting today is the widespread belief of HS players and parents that they are top 50 D1 players. Scouting services (PG, PBR), social media, private instructors, and traveL ball orgs fuel this belief. For their own benefit and to the detriment of the players. The result is players not recognizing that the times they are a changin’. The transfer portal is (and will continue to) penalizing those that are hanging on to old beliefs in spite of overwhelming evidence that shows a different path will offer a better chance to have success.

This could be (and perhaps should be) pinned to the top of every thread in the forum

The problem is of course that most parents still think their kid is the exception to the rule!  I was guilty of that myself once.  Saw my kid lacing Doubles off of D1 recruits at a young age in big tournaments and bought the travel ball hype.

@baseballmom01 posted:

Midwest, yes.  Upper midwest..not so much.

Agreed.  We have the same in the northeast.  It is my belief as the level of the 4 yr schools, there will be X amount of  2 yr schools at that level.

Note, an interesting example is NJ,  we don't have d1 juco, but even more specific, in south jersey we have the best d3 jucos (Gloucester and cumberland), our d2 is mercer county (central jersey).

South Jersey is the home of Brooklawn (American Legion) and was Tri-State Arsenal (Travel -Joe Barth), High School is Gloucester Catholic.

What is interesting is Rowan University is D3 that should realign to d1, the feeder schools (Gloucester, cumberland) who then be able to keep the studs local, IMHO  Rowan could compete with the D1 in the Tri-state area.

Here are the state participation tweets that include school breakdowns by level.

@fenwaysouth posted:

Nailed the dismount Paula...10.0!  JUCO can be a great option for many at this point in time.  All the advice provided on this website is great but it is up the parent and recruit to understand how to apply it and understand what is going on around them.

"The times, they are a changin". -- Bob Dylan

IMHO, not a fight (debate) now we are just having fun with information. Hopefully future visitors will be able to use this info.