I will 2nd talking to parents/players. A lot of coaches do a great job of looking like a good man…
Thanks, all. But, if I had a player, my head would be spinning. So then, should your advice be summarized as:
- if you are being looked at for the draft, go ahead and commit to a P5 (except that if you're a sophomore talking to P5s, you probably don't yet know if the draft will be in the picture?)
- if you are being recruited by a P5 but not draft, then you should commit to a lower-level D1 (assuming that if you do well you can move up) or a juco.
- if you are being looked at by lower-level D1s (unless high academic), then probably you should just drop down to NAIA or D3. Don't go to juco because that will be full of P5/D1 dropdowns and way overloaded with unlimited rosters. D2 is the same. Lower-level D1s either will not be recruiting at all anyway, or will be taking dropdowns and juco players.
All of this also assumes that you think the HC is a good man who will do what he is promising (or that he will even be there).
But in reality, everyone is still going to bet that they are the one freshman who is going to get playing time.
As a note, kids in D3 are getting screwed too, with overloaded rosters and extra eligibility. Eastern Connecticut State (just won the CWS) has two HS '16s and seven HS '17s on their current roster - those guys have 204+197+159+136+165 ABs and 27+75+85+5 IP between them. Wonder what the HS '21s, '20s, and '19s think about that?
@baseballhs posted:I will 2nd talking to parents/players. A lot of coaches do a great job of looking like a good man…
Fair point.
@anotherparent, there is a lot to unpack in your post. But bottom line is that any player that has reached for a program that is beyond his level of ability (and that happens a lot) is really paying for it right now. The D3 experience is not comparable to what is going on in D1 baseball. And there is no formula for how to insure success. The one generalization that holds true is that you have more homework to do and it needs to be done better than before.
If you can go in the draft out of hs, at this point, I’d say go. There is zero loyalty. Coaches will tell you not to go in the draft that it’s better development in college, and they will have no qualms about sending you home at Christmas. We had a freshman this year that according to D1 baseball, could’ve gone in the first three rounds, but chose to come to school. He left at Christmas. We have another kid, who was drafted out of high school, didn’t sign, and now in his third year at school, finally got on the field because the Grad transfer we brought in got hurt. The problem right now isn’t even ability necessarily. It is whether a coach is going to put an inexperienced player on the field and take a chance, let them make the D1 adjustment, or just grab a guy who’s already proven he can play in the D1 arena. If I was being recruited right now by a program, I would ask how many kids they cut last year, and how many they brought in from the portal. Even then, if your coach leaves or gets fired before you get there, it could be all out the window.
I don’t know re picking a JUCO over a D3. My kid is in a Summer League with mostly D3 & JUCO players, with a few D2 guys on each team. The JUCO guys are, for the most part in general, much more polished and advanced. You can tell they’ve had a lot more Baseball experience.
Pick a D3 because of academic opportunities and/or a cultural fit, not necessarily because of Baseball. My 3 cents (inflation)
@3and2Fastball posted:I don’t know re picking a JUCO over a D3. My kid is in a Summer League with mostly D3 & JUCO players, with a few D2 guys on each team. The JUCO guys are, for the most part in general, much more polished and advanced. You can tell they’ve had a lot more Baseball experience.
Pick a D3 because of academic opportunities and/or a cultural fit, not necessarily because of Baseball. My 3 cents (inflation)
I'll second this. Son is in a summer league as a juco product with a mix of mid major d1s, d2s and d3s. This is isn't to toot his horn. The boys figured out quick he has more than 200 abs than they do and quickly leaned on him for advice.
A lot of kids in his league that didn't play much for a year or two or three.
I will say they are all hungry and ready to prove themselves.
Juco is for real. I watched my son mature a lot faster in 2 years than my daughter (non athlete) has in her four years at her D1 dream school.
Also just my $0.03 (sorry - stealing that one).
If I'm a good HS player and I'm not getting 50% or more from a D1 I wouldn't even waste my time. And even then there is even more pressure to perform because that 50% can be converted into two juco players who have proven they are ready for quality competition.
The transfer portal is so out of control that it doesn't even make sense for any school to recruit more than 5 HS players every year. The power schools can replace the last 10-15 guys on their bench with the top mid major players. The mid majors and lower level D1s can scoop up the power school drop downs who weren't getting enough playing time. That is before a single juco player enters the equation.
Yesterday, I saw that a .350 hitter on a 40+ win team with 55 starts has entered his name in the transfer portal. It's unreal. The suits at the NCAA have done it once again
Problem: Players have to sit for a year after transferring and are staying in bad situations because of the penalty
Solution: Players are able to transfer 1x without having to sit for a year
NCAA Solution: Anybody can transfer whenever, wherever
@PABaseball posted:Problem: Players have to sit for a year after transferring and are staying in bad situations because of the penalty
Solution: Players are able to transfer 1x without having to sit for a year
NCAA Solution: Anybody can transfer whenever, wherever
The one-time transfer exception is only valid one time, so unless the player can take advantage of another exception the NCAA solution was the same solution.
If the NCAA actually cared about student-athletes they would require that all athletic scholarships be valid for the full number of years of eligibility a player has remaining, as long as the player keeps showing up and doesn't have any major academic or disciplinary issues. Academic scholarships don't get pulled just because someone smarter wants to transfer in, why should athletic scholarships be able to be pulled because someone with more experience wants to transfer in. Players would still transfer in search of playing time, but at least existing players wouldn't be forced to transfer just because the coach wants to use their scholarship on someone else from the portal.
@baseballhs posted:I will 2nd talking to parents/players. A lot of coaches do a great job of looking like a good man…
Good point. It's also important to note that even the best of men have guys on their rosters with single digit at bats or innings pitched.
@auberon posted:The one-time transfer exception is only valid one time, so unless the player can take advantage of another exception the NCAA solution was the same solution.
If the NCAA actually cared about student-athletes they would require that all athletic scholarships be valid for the full number of years of eligibility a player has remaining, as long as the player keeps showing up and doesn't have any major academic or disciplinary issues. Academic scholarships don't get pulled just because someone smarter wants to transfer in, why should athletic scholarships be able to be pulled because someone with more experience wants to transfer in. Players would still transfer in search of playing time, but at least existing players wouldn' be forced to transfer just because the coach wants to use their scholarship on someone else from the portal.
It doesn’t change anything. P5s have to give 4 years but they are still pushing out a lot of kids. They just tell them they want them to leave and they will not play. Kids feel they have no options and enter the portal.
@JCG posted:Good point. It's also important to note that even the best of men have guys on their rosters with single digit at bats or innings pitched.
Yes they do, but the best of men treat the end of their bench players just as well as they treat their All Americans.
@baseballhs posted:It doesn’t change anything. P5s have to give 4 years but they are still pushing out a lot of kids. They just tell them they want them to leave and they will not play. Kids feel they have no options and enter the portal.
This has been discussed on HSBBW many times. The reality is that the 4 year scholarship commitment is one sided - it’s only real if the school wants it to be. Any kid that has the guts to hold his ground when told to leave is almost always cut from the team and his baseball playing is over. People that argue this point just don’t understand the way competitive college athletics works.
@jaketaylor posted:I'll second this. Son is in a summer league as a juco product with a mix of mid major d1s, d2s and d3s. This is isn't to toot his horn. The boys figured out quick he has more than 200 abs than they do and quickly leaned on him for advice.
A lot of kids in his league that didn't play much for a year or two or three.
I will say they are all hungry and ready to prove themselves.
Juco is for real. I watched my son mature a lot faster in 2 years than my daughter (non athlete) has in her four years at her D1 dream school.
Also just my $0.03 (sorry - stealing that one).
Modesty shown here by @JakeTaylor. His son is a stud C that was a standout at a very respected and very good Oklahoma JuCo. Teammates are often the first to recognize the best players on their team.
@auberon posted:The one-time transfer exception is only valid one time, so unless the player can take advantage of another exception the NCAA solution was the same solution.
If the NCAA actually cared about student-athletes they would require that all athletic scholarships be valid for the full number of years of eligibility a player has remaining, as long as the player keeps showing up and doesn't have any major academic or disciplinary issues. Academic scholarships don't get pulled just because someone smarter wants to transfer in, why should athletic scholarships be able to be pulled because someone with more experience wants to transfer in.
It's supposed to be - the exceptions are definitely utilized. We have two players on their third D1 school and another two coming in next year. The exceptions are too broad, or at least not closely examined enough. It has turned into full free agency.
But yes, once on scholarship you should remain on. The issue is a coach won't take money, he'll just make the player in questions life hell until he gets sick of it.
We want to blame the NCAA but the blame is equal in my opinion. As I and many others have said on here it is 50/50 blame on schools/coaches and players/parents. For a player to be on his third school, there is a problem with the player. He is not doing research and is jumping. Again, not all schools are abusing the system. I would say half of the final 16 teams are doing it the right way. Most of them have predominantly their own players. There are teams like A&M that do not but most do and A&M is unique because he was left with a dry pool many would say and went and found players. The only transfer player that we have at UT is our Saturday starter who is playing. We have one who transferred but was hurt and we have rehabbed him and he will be ready to go next year. We have one juco transfer starting, which is part of doing it the right way, and 4 freshmen with significant playing time. But we also have a senior who has sat behind some great guys and is finally getting his turn, 2 guys who have waited their turns and are now juniors starting. 2 third year starters and 2 fifth year starters. Our bullpen is one fifth year, one senior, one junior who has had significant innings all three years, two juniors who are getting significant innings this year, one sophomore getting innings, and 2 freshman starters.
I know there are several not doing it right and some on our team may think they are not treated right but when you have 29 players getting significant playing time, you are doing it right. Some are not willing to wait their time but the ones on our team that have waited their time are being rewarded with great playing time and will probably be rewarded with being drafted in a few weeks. It is not fun to sit and wait but if you want to be a part of something special some times you have to earn it.
It looks like we will pick up three guys from the transfer portal and if the three come that I think come we will be hated even more than we already are. I believe we might get the best SS, the best power hitter, and another weekend upper 90's guy.
@PitchingFan My son is now considering Tennessee. Just waiting on coaches to reach out.
I haven't had time to carefully review the recent messages on this thread, but wanted to add two points to keep in mind for D1 baseball specifically.
1. All Division I athletes in all sports (whether transferring or not) must be meeting the Percentage of Degree Completion requirements to be eligible. That can certainly be impacted by multiple transfers when some courses aren't accepted at the new university. Those requirements are: at least 40% of the required credits for the athlete's specific degree must be satisfied by the start of the 3rd year of enrollment. At least 60% by the start of the 4th year of enrollment. And for those who haven't already earned their degree, they must have completed at least 80% by the start of the 5th year of enrollment.
2. If it hasn't been mentioned previously, Division I baseball rosters for the 2023 season will be limited to 40 players. HOWEVER, the last 5 of those slots must go to players who would have used their final season of eligibility during the 2022 season if it had not been for the additional COVID year of eligibility AND those players must be returning to the same university where they participated during the 2022 season.
In other words, if a player doesn't fall within both parameters of #2 above, they should be thinking of a D1 roster as no more than 35 guys because they won't be able to "claim" one of the final five slots.
Rick
@auberon posted:The one-time transfer exception is only valid one time, so unless the player can take advantage of another exception the NCAA solution was the same solution.
If the NCAA actually cared about student-athletes they would require that all athletic scholarships be valid for the full number of years of eligibility a player has remaining, as long as the player keeps showing up and doesn't have any major academic or disciplinary issues. Academic scholarships don't get pulled just because someone smarter wants to transfer in, why should athletic scholarships be able to be pulled because someone with more experience wants to transfer in. Players would still transfer in search of playing time, but at least existing players wouldn't be forced to transfer just because the coach wants to use their scholarship on someone else from the portal.
Academic scholarships get pulled if the student doesn’t maintain (produce in the classroom) their academics. Athletic scholarships get pulled or the player is told they won’t see the field if the coach doesn’t see them helping the team (producing on the field).
The only difference is the student gets his at bats (go to class and get the grades) to prove whether or not he can produce. Judgement on an athlete can be subjective. He may never see the field.
How many D1 athletes stay with their four year guarantees if they’re told they’re not going to see the field? Maybe the premed or engineering student at Academic Dream School U. There aren’t many of these. These majors are discouraged for D1 athletes.
@IAmThatGuy posted:@PitchingFan My son is now considering Tennessee. Just waiting on coaches to reach out.
They are probably a little busy this week and hopefully the next couple of weeks but I'm sure they will be in touch. 
@IAmThatGuy posted:@PitchingFan My son is now considering Tennessee. Just waiting on coaches to reach out.
Having practice up on his flipping - all kinds!
I see 2,024 players in the portal already with 39 announcing new schools. I see a few names of players I know, including two posters sons from HSBBW that I've gotten to know. This 2,024 is only D1 players looking to transfer. New England Baseball Journal, which is a great site, has a list of local players looking to transfer which includes a number of D3 players. Does anyone know where to find that type of data? The D1 portal is avail on D1Baseball.com, but you have to sign up for premium.
The transfer portal has created full blown free agency among the most competitive of D1 programs. This wasn’t the intended purpose and I don’t like it. But you can’t blame the players and coaches for taking advantage of it to improve their situation. Especially when money is involved (NLI for big name players) and jobs are at stake for HCs at big name schools. How would you like to be HC at a mid-major and have a player in your program turn into a star tight before your eyes? How could you possibly keep him? The reality is that what is happening in D1 is exactly what MLB wanted to happen. The elite D1 teams are turning into pro level ball clubs. The players are older and more skilled. The best talent is becoming concentrated among the big name schools. The SEC and the ACC are full of minor league caliber teams. And this costs MLB nothing. MLB has gotten rid of many low level minor league franchises (saving themselves millions of dollars in the process) and replaced them with the best D1 teams - for free.
@adbono posted:The transfer portal has created full blown free agency among the most competitive of D1 programs. This wasn’t the intended purpose and I don’t like it. But you can’t blame the players and coaches for taking advantage of it to improve their situation. Especially when money is involved (NLI for big name players) and jobs are at stake for HCs at big name schools. How would you like to be HC at a mid-major and have a player in your program turn into a star tight before your eyes? How could you possibly keep him? The reality is that what is happening in D1 is exactly what MLB wanted to happen. The elite D1 teams are turning into pro level ball clubs. The players are older and more skilled. The best talent is becoming concentrated among the big name schools. The SEC and the ACC are full of minor league caliber teams. And this costs MLB nothing. MLB has gotten rid of many low level minor league franchises (saving themselves millions of dollars in the process) and replaced them with the best D1 teams - for free.
It's been tossed around here that the top of the SEC + other stacked programs are around the level of A+/AA. It's hard to argue against it.
I agree 100%, I really do believe it's part of a master plan between MLB and NCAA. If we're not that big into conspiracy theories fine but at the very least the pendulum has swung to a top heavy only model. Our program has picked up 5 players who have torched us in midweeks at their smaller programs. We essentially had a trade - we picked up a SS from a lower level D1 program and they picked up one of our backups. They're both starting.
There are two issues that the public decided to neglect. The first is that players could always make money off their name - they just couldn't do it at the collegiate level. Nothing was stopping a player from going to Australia, G League, MLB draft. Players were willingly choosing to forgo $$$ in lieu of getting an education because it's a pretty good safety net. I don't know why people acted like there weren't options.
The second is that the free agency pool aka transfer portal essentially killed any future for the little guy. Any talented player will follow the money or the wins. Look at football - players are leaving their programs for more money. How can any up and coming program compete with that on a year to year basis?
Agree with all of the above. You can argue that D1 baseball should split into 2 divisions the way that D1 NCAA football has.
D1 should definitely split, and the split should be based on which schools are willing to to fund full scholarships for 100% of the roster along with the required number of women's scholarships for Title IX. If the smaller schools can't afford it, that's fine, but they shouldn't be allowed to conspire to suppress the number of scholarships that other schools offer. They can go compete in a division commensurate with their ability to invest in athletics.
Look at the portal. There are TONS of teams with 10-15 players in the portal. Sometimes half the team. The days of playing 4 years at your dream school are all but gone.
@baseballhs posted:Look at the portal. There are TONS of teams with 10-15 players in the portal. Sometimes half the team. The days of playing 4 years at your dream school are all but gone.
Sad but true.
If you don't have access but want to see it:
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@baseballhs posted:If you don't have access but want to see it:
This is the best information available for any HS or JuCo player that is considering a D1 program. Any school with more than a few players in the portal should be a huge red flag. It indicates that a particular school over-recruits or has an unusually high number of unhappy players. Or both.
…or they are switching strategies, pushing kids out, and opting to recruit from the portal now. I expect after Supers there will be several coming from those teams too. I know several from our team that are entering but haven’t done it yet and our exit interviews were a week or so ago.
Just an FYI there are numerous names in the above portal list that haven't been removed from last year. Either because they withdrew name or never taken out when transfered.
A good idea would be to compare with this years roster.
So I'm wondering what number of players in the portal is a red flag. I see a lot of schools with about 6-8 players. Is that a red flag? Or is that just them trying to get down from 40 to 35? Then there are a bunch of schools with 11-14 - I assume that would be red flag territory, unless their coach has just left?
@TPM posted:Just an FYI there are numerous names in the above portal list that haven't been removed from last year. Either because they withdrew name or never taken out when transfered.
A good idea would be to compare with this years roster.
I just took the final 2021 transfer portal list of names, 2,173, and compared it against the current 2022 transfer portal list of names of 2,024 players and found that 57 players never took their name out from last year. I am very impressed with my ability to figure out how to use VLOOKUP in excel. It really should be easier to use.
@Gunner Mack Jr. posted:I just took the final 2021 transfer portal list of names, 2,173, and compared it against the current 2022 transfer portal list of names of 2,024 players and found that 57 players never took their name out from last year. I am very impressed with my ability to figure out how to use VLOOKUP in excel. It really should be easier to use.
Gardner Webb has almost an entire team in the portal. That's from 2022?
@TPM posted:Gardner Webb has almost an entire team in the portal. That's from 2022?
25 Gardner Webb were in the portal last year and 36 this year and only 2 names are the same. last year 8 of them were graduate students. I don't know what's going on at Gardner Webb....
Is there any way to view d2 baseball portal?
I know it has been touched on here but you can bet it will be a bigger problem. The schools that do not teach the game or develop players will not get better but worse. They will let the smaller programs develop them for a year or two then take them.
It is also not just the smaller schools or the players that are not getting playing time. Look at Vanderbilt. They lost their starting ss and one of their key weekend starters already and I hear they are losing at least 1 more starter and maybe 3 this week. If you don't think those guys will get picked up, you are missing the boat. There are a lot of big name dudes that are in the portal that were getting playing time but were not happy with coaches or philosophy or just want a new program due to lack of team success. Do you think someone will build the elite travel ball program in college by saying we will take the best 15 guys in the nation if you want to come to School X to play with the best. We have an NIL deal already worked out for $100,000-1,000,000 and you can come win a National Championship.
"It would be interesting to know the "real" reason for transfer?
The MLB teams have a library of research on ML and Minor League players to utilize in their acquisition by trade or "free agency".
On one my trips to Seattle, the Mariners requested my assistance to send over to Beijing, China, the team from their Tacoma Club for the 1st Goodwill Series of a Professional team.
In the Mariners office the computer specialist had a file of all players filmed at the Area Code Games. They had my permission to film. However it was very interesting to learn of the value of the AC event and filming to the ML teams.
College Coaches will need "Computer Coaches" to evaluate the players in the PORTAL. Look for "non-verbal" communication.
Bob