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Twas the nite before the election

DaddyBoDaddyBo100+ posts
Darn...I cast my ballot by mail last Thursday based on the "warm fuzzy feeling" I was getting from Schill. I should have thought it through a little more and taken into consideration what the true political intellects Roll Eyeshad to say...you know; Whoopi, Springsteen, Bon Jovi, Chevy Chase, Ben Affleck...WOW, the list goes on and on! I'll try to do better in 2008. Big Grin
K KellerDad1,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by piaa_ump:
I am voting tomorrow against a candidate and not for one.

I am casting my ballot for a candidate that I am not 100% in favor of. I am casting my ballot against a candidate. For the highest office in our land and the most powerful man in the world, I would prefer a more clear cut choice.

There are no more Harry Trumans in the world of politics........our choice of which priviledged multi-millionare, who states he knows what its like to be "one of us" is pretty thin indeed.......


Harry Truman started his political career as a small time crook on the take
K KellerDad1,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by infielddad:
I really hope this is a vote focusing on issues not the rhetoric/news clips that someone is "flipflopping." I am a registerred Republican who does not want my or anyone else's son drafted to fight a war that should not ever have been started. Did you see 60 Minutes last night? We have young men fighting this war and their parents are buying the required equipment. What type of military preparedness is that. We are also leaving all these young people we talk about so dearly on this website with massive debt and economic problems while passing taxcuts that are ridiculous. Guess that shows I am pretty disillusioned with the Republican. If Kerry had run on issues and presented his platform this would be easy. The fact that he didn't made this much more difficult than needed, at least for me.


Well, Kerry didn't have any issues, other than what the polls told him.

And, there won't be a draft under Bush, only Kerry.
K KellerDad1,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by infielddad:
Moc, this came from those serving in Iraq, their commanding officers and was verified by Sen. John McCain. McCain's view is that members of Congress and the administration have still not come to grips that our troops/young men are fighting and dieing in a war and need bullets, etc. Yes there is a shortage of bullets. If there is 50% accuracy to the story, outrage should exist. I hope your LOL isn't heard by the Oregon National Guard troops fighting in Iraq who were interviewed.


Shortage of bullets? Hardly. The logistics may be that the people that need the bullets may not have them, but there are enough bullets and ammunition in country to fight the war for 2 years.
Moc1Moc1500+ posts
Infielddad-You chose to post your political views on on a baseball site and belittled the President of the United States by using information from a network that has been shown beyond doubt to be biased and deceitful---and YOU are offended? Please. My amusement was not about
our military but about your willingness to believe what you saw without any questioning on your part. You have every right to give your opinion about what you see and I have every right to find your opinion humorous.

Please try to understand the difference between that and what our soldiers are facing every day. Two different subjects.
Last edited by Moc1
B Bordeaux500+ posts
Quote from above: "If your Country calls, you go.....Fathers and sons before you did, so should you......Many soldiers died protecting America....Many more will do the same........God bless them...."

I agree that we honor the veterans of our wars--my dad is a veteran of 2, Korea and WW2. But you do NOT mindlessly go to war for your country because your country calls, if your country is going to war for the wrong reasons, in the wrong place, at the wrong time--and with not enough armor to protect them for goodness' sake.

Since none of you obviously even listened to the 60 minutes report, it is amazing to me that you can conclude that it was wrong--talk about painting with a broad brush--and are perhaps not aware that commanding officers, parents, and amputees from the Iraq war were interviewed. How about posting some facts to contradict the report instead of just assuming the reports are wrong because you don't trust the source? Here is another link to a different source, the AP, which says essentially the same thing: http://aolsvc.news.aol.com/news/article.adp?id=20041101164009990017&_mpc=news%2e6&cid=842

Rational debate seems to be impossible on this board, when it comes to politics--interesting because it seems to abound when the REALLY LIFE-OR-DEATH issues of baseball are discussed.
Last edited by Bordeaux
K KellerDad1,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by Bordeaux:
Quote from above: "If your Country calls, you go.....Fathers and sons before you did, so should you......Many soldiers died protecting America....Many more will do the same........God bless them...."

I agree that we honor the veterans of our wars--my dad is a veteran of 2, Korea and WW2. But you do NOT mindlessly go to war for your country because your country calls, if your country is going to war for the wrong reasons, in the wrong place, at the wrong time--and with not enough armor to protect them for goodness' sake.

Since none of you obviously even listened to the 60 minutes report, it is amazing to me that you can conclude that it was wrong--talk about painting with a broad brush--and are perhaps not aware that commanding officers, parents, and amputees from the Iraq war were interviewed. How about posting some facts to contradict the report instead of just assuming the reports are wrong because you don't trust the source? Here is another link to a different source, the AP, which says essentially the same thing: http://aolsvc.news.aol.com/news/article.adp?id=20041101164009990017&_mpc=news%2e6&cid=842

Rational debate seems to be impossible on this board, when it comes to politics--interesting because it seems to abound when the REALLY LIFE-OR-DEATH issues of baseball are discussed.


I am unable to debate rationally anymore.






Your canidate wants to treat this as a criminal act.


George W. wants to treat this as a war.

Pretty simple in my book.

But, I am also for a Federal Law, making it manditory that they should show the Twin Towers Collapsing at the beginning of every newscast, of every day.

Be sure to vote today.

And vote Bush


Last edited by KellerDad
B Bordeaux500+ posts
And to further your apparent inability to use facts to support any argument (what is the point of pictures?):

Military service records:

PROMINENT DEMOCRATS
Richard Gephardt: Air National Guard, 1965-71.
David Bonior: Staff Sgt., Air Force 1968-72.
Tom Daschle: 1st Lt., Air Force SAC 1969-72.
Al Gore: enlisted Aug. 1969; Vietnam 1971.
Bob Kerrey: Lt. j.g. Navy 1966-69; Medal of Honor, Vietnam.
Daniel Inouye: Army 1943-47; Medal of Honor, WWII.
John Kerry: Lt., Navy 1966-70; Silver Star, Bronze Star with Combat 3 Purple Hearts.
John Edwards: did not serve.
Charles Rangel: Staff Sgt., Army 1948-52; Bronze Star, Korea.
Max Cleland: Captain, Army 1965-68; Silver Star & Bronze Star, Vietnam.
Ted Kennedy: Army, 1951-1953.
Tom Harkin: Lt., Navy, 1962-67; Naval Reserve, 1968-74.
Jack Reed: Army Ranger, 1971-1979; Captain, Army Reserve 1979-91.
Fritz Hollings: Army officer in WWII, Bronze Star & seven campaign ribbons.
Leonard Boswell: Lt. Col., Army 1956-76; Vietnam, DFCs, Bronze Stars, & Soldier's Medal.
Pete Peterson: Air Force Captain, POW. Purple Heart, Silver Star & Legion of Merit.
Mike Thompson: Staff sergeant, 173rd Airborne, Purple Heart.
Bill McBride: Marine in Vietnam; Bronze Star with Combat V.
Gray Davis: Army Captain, Vietnam, Bronze Star.
Pete Stark: Air Force 1955-57.
Chuck Robb: Vietnam.
Howell Heflin: Silver Star.
George McGovern: Silver Star & DFC during WWII.
Bill Clinton: did not serve.
Jimmy Carter: Seven years US Navy, submarine captain.
Walter Mondale: Army 1951-1953.
John Glenn: WWII and Korea; six DFCs & Air Medal with 18 Clusters.
Tom Lantos: Hungarian underground in WWII. Saved by Raoul Wallenberg.
Wesley Clark: US Army, 1966-2000, West Point, Vietnam, Purple Heart, Silver Star. 4-star general.
John Dingell: WWII vet.
John Conyers: Army 1950-57, Korea.
Michael Moore: did not serve.
PROMINENT REPUBLICANS
Newt Gingrich: did not serve.
Dennis Hastert: did not serve.
Tom Delay: did not serve.
House Whip Roy Blunt: did not serve.
Bill Frist: did not serve.
Rudy Giuliani: did not serve.
George Pataki: did not serve.
Mitch McConnell: did not serve.
Rick Santorum: did not serve.
Trent Lott: did not serve.
Dick Cheney: did not serve ("I had other priorities").
John Ashcroft: did not serve, seven deferments to teach business.
Jeb Bush: did not serve.
Karl Rove: did not serve.
Saxby Chambliss: did not serve ("bad knee"). The man who attacked Max Cleland's patriotism.
Paul Wolfowitz: did not serve.
Vin Weber: did not serve.
Richard Perle: did not serve.
Douglas Feith: did not serve.
Eliot Abrams: did not serve.
Richard Shelby: did not serve.
Jon Kyl: did not serve.
Tim Hutchison: did not serve.
Christopher Cox: did not serve.
Antonin Scalia: did not serve.
Clarence Thomas: did not serve
Don Rumsfeld: Navy, 1954-57, aviator & flight instructor.
Colin Powell: Career Army, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff.
George W. Bush: Nat'l Guard with questionable record.
Ronald Reagan: served in non-combat role making movies.
Gerald Ford: Navy, WWII.
Phil Gramm: did not serve.
John McCain: Silver Star, Bronze Star, Legion of Merit, Purple Heart and Distinguished Flying Cross.
Bob Dole: Army, WWII, seriously wounded.
Chuck Hagel: two Purple Hearts & a Bronze Star, Vietnam.
Duke Cunningham: nominated for Medal of Honor, Navy Cross, Silver Stars, Air Medals, Purple Hearts.
Jeff Sessions: Army Reserves, 1973-1986.
JC Watts: did not serve.
Lindsey Graham: National Guard lawyer.
G.H.W. Bush: Pilot in WWII. Shot down by the Japanese.
Tom Ridge: Bronze Star for Valor in Vietnam.
Kenneth Starr: did not serve.
PRO-WAR PUNDITS
Sean Hannity: did not serve.
Rush Limbaugh: did not serve.
Bill O'Reilly: did not serve.
Michael Savage: did not serve.
George Will: did not serve.
Paul Gigot: did not serve.
Bill Bennett: did not serve.
Bill Kristol: did not serve.
Michael Medved: did not serve.
K KellerDad1,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by Orlando:
The point of the pictures is to continue the merging of the attacks of 9/11 with President's actions in Iraq in the voters' minds.


No, you are wrong.


The pictures are to remind you nimwits of what happened to this country.

You can not go back to 9-10 thinking....and that is what John Kerry proposes doing.

And as far as Iraq goes:

I can find you over 20 quotes from as far back as 1995 of John F. Kerry saying we should invade Iraq.

It just so happened that he changed his mind because Howard Dean was kicking his arse in Iowa.

Boy, that's leadership for ya.
BNABNA100+ posts
A few presidential quotations on this election day:

President Gerald Ford:
I watch a lot of baseball on the radio.

"When I was a small boy in Kansas, a friend of mine and I went fishing and as we sat there in the warmth of the summer afternoon on a river bank, we talked about what we wanted to do when we grew up. I told him that I wanted to be a real major league baseball player, a genuine professional like Honus Wagner. My friend said that he'd like to be President of the United States. Neither of us got our wish." Dwight D. Eisenhower

"Normally they boo politicians at baseball parks, that kind of goes with the territory." George Bush

"(baseball is) our national pastime, that is if you discount political campaigning." Ronald Reagan

"Baseball isn't just the stats. As much as anything else, baseball is the style of Willie Mays, or the determination of Hank Aaron, or the endurance of a Mickey Mantle, the discipline of Carl Yastrzemski, the drive of Eddie Mathews, the reliability of a (Al) Kaline or a (Joe) Morgan, the grace of a (Joe) DiMaggio, the kindness of a Harmon Killebrew, and the class of Stan Musial, the courage of a Jackie Robinson, or the heroism of Lou Gehrig. My hope for the game is that these qualities will never be lost." George W. Bush

"I couldn't see well enough to play when I was a boy, so they gave me a special job - they made me an umpire." Harry S. Truman

"I'm the kind of fan who wants to get plenty of action for my money. I get the biggest kick out of the biggest score - a game in which the hitters pole the ball into the far corners of the field, the outfielders scramble and men run the bases." Franklin Roosevelt

"Baseball is our national game." Calvin Coolidge

"I never saw a game without taking sides and never want to see one. There is the soul of the game." Warren Harding
E Eagledad10+ posts
When you speak of John Kerry's great service in the navy,please remember that he has an honored place in the North Vietnamese war museum.He and Jane Fonda betrayed our armed forces and our nation during a time of war-and now he wants to be commander in chief?The liberal media,led by the NYTimes and CBS have tried their best to destroy the president with their lies and slanted coverage of the candidates,never once mentioning his virulent anti-war activities,while still in the service.Kerry,who
originally supported the war,is now against it
to pander to the lunatic left wing of the democratic party,and wants to make Irag just like Vietnam,with the help of the media.No war
ever goes according to script-what would kerry
have said at the Battle of the Bulge-lets leave now,we can't win?That is what he wants to do now=forgetting about 9/11 and the attack on the U.S.I think we need to support the president,who will stand tall and not be swayed
by public opinion polls.
HeyBatterHeyBatter1,000+ posts
even though it is now election day, I'd like to still make these comments.

Our country's own 9/11 commission concluded that the World Trade Center destruction had NOTHING to do with Iraq.Prior to his ouster, Hussein fought bin laden and his boys more than we did. So our response in attacking Iraq has nothing to do with 9/11, but everything to do with the Bush family's personal vendetta with Hussein dating back to Desert Storm. It has everything to do with oil prices and everything to do with Dick Cheney's Halliburton collections.

It is further a war pressured and pursued by Donald "duck for cover" Rumsfeld who counseld W on attacking Iraq since the election (when Al Gore was elected in 2000).

As far as Kerry's war record, rather than snorting coke and getting drunk like W, John Kerry was in Vietnam and the current attack on his record is merely a decades long carry over by John O'neil, Rumsfeld and Daddy Bush from their days as part of the Nixon administration "dirty tricksters".

Back in '71 Kerry made the Nixon enemies list for speaking out against the war (police action) in Viet Nam. O'neil was a protege of Charles colson, the white house lawyer who eventually went to jail for his crimes in the Watergate scandal.

Haldeman, Colson and others assisted if not supported O'neil as their front man to attack Kerry back then, as you did not dare use your freedom of speech and speak against the Nixon administration (sorta like today). The Nixon crew even went to the extent of arranging a one on one debate between Oneil and Kerry on the Dick Cavett show. Replays of that are now shown constantly. O'neil was even a nominator for Nixon at the '72 Republican convention.

All this BS against Kerry is just decades old Nixon dirty tricks carried out today by his longtime henchman Rumsfeld, Oneil and George Sr. Now they just have W the puppet stooge carrying on this nonsense with Dick Cheney pulling his strings.

I have little doubt that we will have 4 more years of W, as this country, with the Patriot Act and other suppression, we have just fallen back into the abyss of the Nixon ("I have a secret plan to end the war"/enemies list/Watergate) abyss. In the 50's and 60's we were lead into vietnam with the fear that if that country fell, the commies would be everywhere. Now it's a terrorist in every "pot".
The point we didn't learn in vietnam remains- we have no respect for other countries, their cultures and their own self-determination. Someday we may get a clue that the Iraqi people don't want an NFL franchise.

Nixon's manifest destiny lives on in these men of true evil who never learned their lesson in Vietnam and are now dragging us into another fiasco, fighting the wrong enemies and for their own personal financial gain.

Bottom line, is bin ladin a bad guy, sure. Was he tied to Iraq. No way. The man is a Saudi, but Bush can't go in that (right) direction, 'cause the Saudis are his brothers in crime and $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.

...... and don't forget to vote.
O Orlando1,000+ posts
KellerDad, there has always been a great deal more to the question of Iraq than 'to invade or not to invade'. Please do show those 20 votes, by the way. Knowing the actual stance is a better way to judge any candidate than accepting what is presented in political commercials.

factcheck.org

Ah, the old Museum Piece. Again, better to check facts than accept what arrives in the old e-mail.

snopes.com
Captain JackCaptain Jack100+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by Bordeaux:
And to further your apparent inability to use facts to support any argument (what is the point of pictures?):

Military service records:

PROMINENT DEMOCRATS
Richard Gephardt: Air National Guard, 1965-71.
David Bonior: Staff Sgt., Air Force 1968-72.
Tom Daschle: 1st Lt., Air Force SAC 1969-72.
Al Gore: enlisted Aug. 1969; Vietnam 1971.
Bob Kerrey: Lt. j.g. Navy 1966-69; Medal of Honor, Vietnam.
Daniel Inouye: Army 1943-47; Medal of Honor, WWII.
John Kerry: Lt., Navy 1966-70; Silver Star, Bronze Star with Combat 3 Purple Hearts.
John Edwards: did not serve.
Charles Rangel: Staff Sgt., Army 1948-52; Bronze Star, Korea.
Max Cleland: Captain, Army 1965-68; Silver Star & Bronze Star, Vietnam.
Ted Kennedy: Army, 1951-1953.
Tom Harkin: Lt., Navy, 1962-67; Naval Reserve, 1968-74.
Jack Reed: Army Ranger, 1971-1979; Captain, Army Reserve 1979-91.
Fritz Hollings: Army officer in WWII, Bronze Star & seven campaign ribbons.
Leonard Boswell: Lt. Col., Army 1956-76; Vietnam, DFCs, Bronze Stars, & Soldier's Medal.
Pete Peterson: Air Force Captain, POW. Purple Heart, Silver Star & Legion of Merit.
Mike Thompson: Staff sergeant, 173rd Airborne, Purple Heart.
Bill McBride: Marine in Vietnam; Bronze Star with Combat V.
Gray Davis: Army Captain, Vietnam, Bronze Star.
Pete Stark: Air Force 1955-57.
Chuck Robb: Vietnam.
Howell Heflin: Silver Star.
George McGovern: Silver Star & DFC during WWII.
Bill Clinton: did not serve.
Jimmy Carter: Seven years US Navy, submarine captain.
Walter Mondale: Army 1951-1953.
John Glenn: WWII and Korea; six DFCs & Air Medal with 18 Clusters.
Tom Lantos: Hungarian underground in WWII. Saved by Raoul Wallenberg.
Wesley Clark: US Army, 1966-2000, West Point, Vietnam, Purple Heart, Silver Star. 4-star general.
John Dingell: WWII vet.
John Conyers: Army 1950-57, Korea.
Michael Moore: did not serve.
PROMINENT REPUBLICANS
Newt Gingrich: did not serve.
Dennis Hastert: did not serve.
Tom Delay: did not serve.
House Whip Roy Blunt: did not serve.
Bill Frist: did not serve.
Rudy Giuliani: did not serve.
George Pataki: did not serve.
Mitch McConnell: did not serve.
Rick Santorum: did not serve.
Trent Lott: did not serve.
Dick Cheney: did not serve ("I had other priorities").
John Ashcroft: did not serve, seven deferments to teach business.
Jeb Bush: did not serve.
Karl Rove: did not serve.
Saxby Chambliss: did not serve ("bad knee"). The man who attacked Max Cleland's patriotism.
Paul Wolfowitz: did not serve.
Vin Weber: did not serve.
Richard Perle: did not serve.
Douglas Feith: did not serve.
Eliot Abrams: did not serve.
Richard Shelby: did not serve.
Jon Kyl: did not serve.
Tim Hutchison: did not serve.
Christopher Cox: did not serve.
Antonin Scalia: did not serve.
Clarence Thomas: did not serve
Don Rumsfeld: Navy, 1954-57, aviator & flight instructor.
Colin Powell: Career Army, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff.
George W. Bush: Nat'l Guard with questionable record.
Ronald Reagan: served in non-combat role making movies.
Gerald Ford: Navy, WWII.
Phil Gramm: did not serve.
John McCain: Silver Star, Bronze Star, Legion of Merit, Purple Heart and Distinguished Flying Cross.
Bob Dole: Army, WWII, seriously wounded.
Chuck Hagel: two Purple Hearts & a Bronze Star, Vietnam.
Duke Cunningham: nominated for Medal of Honor, Navy Cross, Silver Stars, Air Medals, Purple Hearts.
Jeff Sessions: Army Reserves, 1973-1986.
JC Watts: did not serve.
Lindsey Graham: National Guard lawyer.
G.H.W. Bush: Pilot in WWII. Shot down by the Japanese.
Tom Ridge: Bronze Star for Valor in Vietnam.
Kenneth Starr: did not serve.
PRO-WAR PUNDITS
Sean Hannity: did not serve.
Rush Limbaugh: did not serve.
Bill O'Reilly: did not serve.
Michael Savage: did not serve.
George Will: did not serve.
Paul Gigot: did not serve.
Bill Bennett: did not serve.
Bill Kristol: did not serve.
Michael Medved: did not serve.



And what is the point of RANDOMLY posting the military record af these politicians???
Is it to enlighten the masses or simply to try and prove your little point??? Either way TRY AGAIN!!!
Oh and alo your choice of screen names is interesting! ( French) LOL!!!
HeyBatterHeyBatter1,000+ posts
Not to speak for Bordeaux, but my take would be that it is always curious that those who push stongest for war (and to let other people's children be killed) are never ones who have actually served and seen what it is like.

All the Bush family, Cheney and others who saw the "need" to invade Iraq at this time know about war is the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ it brings to them through their various business connections such as Haliburton.

It is this administration and the media they control that have taken such steps to ban photos of dead soldiers and of coffins so you don't see on TV that real life american kids are dying over there for no ****ing reason.

We did not go to Iraq and war as a last resort, we went there 'cause cowboy W couldn't catch bin laden, didn't care too, stated on TV in 2002 that he doesn't even think about him and his daddy's cronies told him it's time to go shoot 'em up, smoke 'em out and show the American people that he is a real commandant in chief instead of the moron that sat dumbstruck for 10 minutes in that classroom in Florida the morning of the 9/11 attacks. He couldn't go against Saudi Arabia, they're his buddies. He couldn't go to Iran 'cause they've got nuclear weapons, he couldn't figure out what to do in Afganistan, there ain't no oil in N. Korea and oh, they got nuclear weapons no too, so let's go **** with Iraq. It should take a few weeks to blow them a way and it did and the war was declared over. Yet we're still there. Funny thing, great planning. American kids dying every ****ing day. Great President. Great Leader. May be if W had spent one day in a fire zone and seen someone's ****ing head blown off, he'd given a little more thought to sending American kids over there so Haliburton could get a new (re)construction contract.
goMOgoMO100+ posts
I've read all these posts, and there are some sensible posts on both sides.

Problem for me is, as much as I'm not a fan of W., I can't vote for Kerry just because I don't like Bush. I'd like to think there was something about Kerry I could support, but I don't like him, don't trust him, and don't think he can make tough decisions.

I'm thinking of not voting, but that won't help anything either.

Boy, what a no-win situation...
K KellerDad1,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by itsinthegame:
Kellerdad,

You posted a picture of the Towers.

For many people - that is a symbol. I understand that.

For others - it is much more than a symbol.
It is a brutal reminder of a brutal day.

I wish you - and others - wouldnt post that particular sight on a baseball web site.

On the other hand - I am sure that is asking far too much.


You are asking far too much.

It should be shown on TV every day. It should be shown every time you log on to a computer.

You need to be reminded.

Those people were slaughtered.

How soon we all forget.
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