A Dilemma

Team Chemistry? What team chemistry? There are racists and anti-Semites on the team. Does the kid want to be a coward or stand up for what is right? The kid shouldn't have walked away when the situation occurred. He should have forced a conversation. If it got out of control the racist would have been exposed. If the coach is informed it's not the kid who messed up the season. It's the racist who messed up the season.

quote:

Apparently this happened several weeks ago.

This is an interesting question.  But after "several weeks", the practical "statute of limitations" has already been passed, considering the issue is name-calling.

 

If this incident had been known immediately, a parent could either tell the coach or push his kid to do so.  If I were the parent, I might try to discuss ways that my son could counter act the behavior.  But mostly I take the point of view that the player will face hurtful remarks many times in his life (not necessarily related to being a minority), and he needs to learn to deal with it himself.  Bullying occurs at any age.  It may well be that the some people who are easily bullied have had someone else always step in in their earlier life. 

Very difficult dilemma indeed.  So many things in play here.  First, let me touch on the reason I quoted the above section.  If he and son go to coach with their full range of concerns, coach will very likely feel compelled to act on them (and rightfully so, if severity of offense is as straight forward as stated).  Coach is obligated to take this through proper channels, particularly in light of the recent other incident.  While it may be the right thing to do, there is no coach that can assure there will be no negative retribution toward son from other players and/or parents.  While there may be every effort made to maintain confidentiality, it is rare that the details of these things don't get out quickly.

 

I would never suggest that we, on a discussion board, have nearly enough info to have a handle on the situation to offer specific direction on such a serious matter but I will throw out some additional thoughts.

 

HS age kids say mean things to each other, including racial remarks.    The true intent or meaning behind their words runs the full range from friendly jab to pure hatred.  While it certainly sounds like this instance is much closer to the latter, it is a critical piece of the equation that we just don't know for sure and there is a lot riding on it for everyone.

 

As a coach, I try to keep my ear to the ground and pick up on the general vibe of daily chatter among the boys.  We give them their space and allow them be teenage boys but if we hear about things getting too far out of line, we'll let them know.  That said, we sure don't hear everything and some are very good at picking their spots and being aware of who is within earshot.

 

If I'm coach, assuming this remark was interpreted as a true racial slur, well beyond a jab, I would definitely want to know about it.  But, again, I would feel obligated to take it up the chain if it were a repeat offender. 

 

Another thought that comes to mind...  The specifics of this case aside - as hard as it may be, and even knowing you may be bringing unwarranted difficulties upon yourself, I would always weigh doing the right thing vs. winning baseball games.

 

And another...  each class that passes through our program brings their own unique set of strengths and weaknesses, including character-related issues.  At the end of each season, we are sad to see the strengths of the senior class passing by but look forward to the promise of improvement in any areas where the group lacked, regardless of our efforts to effect otherwise.  Is the offender pretty much alone in these types of remarks?  Will things likely be much better when this class graduates?

 

I commend the young man for showing restraint and considering team before taking action.  However, the hope would be that this incident will better prepare him to stand up next time, stating to any such offender that he will have always have a teammate's back on the field but won't put up with any kind of crap that doesn't belong on a team or elsewhere.

Great points RJM. It has been my experience that you meet a bully head on at the time of the bullying. Bullies tend to understand one thing. The power to fight back. Way before it was fashionable to have a zero tolerance policy to anything no matter if you were retaliating to a bully I learned first hand that fact. As a kid whose heritage is Italian- Irish and Russian Jew I was at the park one fine spring day . The wind was blowing and one of the guys came up by me and said" hey, lets tie a string to Farrell and lets fly a K***" And he didn't say kite. Well, when his dentist saw  him next he wasn't to pleased. Now I am not advocating going around beating people up, but it seems to me when stuff like this happens you have to take it on right at that moment to have to best affect on people. And in doing so you empower those around you who think like you but who might be afraid to voice themselves at the risk of being themselves the target. JMO.

We're Jewish, and my son's grandfather's nose kicked in with his 6" growth spurt 2 years ago. So yeah, he's got a honker. He gets teased for it and some of it gets damn close to antisemiticism. Ticks me off, but not him. Kids tease and can be mean (and remarkably ignorant). I encouraged my son to tell the kids doing it to knock it off and that he might take it as a racial slur. And everyone knows, like fighting ot bullying, those who do it get punished hard by the school system. Sort of went away. Good luck!

As a Father I would respect my sons wants in terms of how to handle the situation but not with out conversation on the choices on how to handle it. My sons decision might be wrong in my eyes but he could only know and really feel the correctness or incorrectness of his decision if he owns it. Which is to say he will know a week later, a month later or maybe a year later if his decision was correct.  It will then form the basis for future ways of handling it if it happend again. 

 

As a coach, I want to know.  I would rather battle for a win with players who respect each other and  understands team than have a better chance to win with a racist.  The win wouldn't feel right to me especially in hs where more is supposed to be learned than a win on the field.  The victory would be in what is right with my team and not in having more runs on the board than the other team at the end of a game.  

Batty - Since when did making fun of someone's big nose become an issue of racism? My son has a big nose inherited from his Paw-Paw, who is half Cherokee. He catches some flak for it, but it will even out as he grows (maybe). As long as race isn't used in an epithet, how is it racist?

Sorry fellas, indulge me this day.... 
Really not sure how this should of been handled. Ramifications likely, any way you go. Commend the young man for his foresight and restraint. Sickens me that he had the need to, to begin with.
But today on Mother's Day, thinking back this past week, leaving our very small rural community, 99.99% Caucasian, and traveling the distance to the city our son had attended his Freshmen year in College, to retrieve his things to help bring home for the Summer. Next year, it had already been decided upon to get a suite, and 8 teammates all room together. Well as we packed and began loading up, teammates began to pop in to meet us, and tell 2013 goodbye. Our son would tell us of the one's that were part of the group of 8 to room with. Didn't get to be there as they all came by, as there were multiple trips to our vehicles to help arrange things. But, I met 5 of the nicest, and polite young men. 2 were Hispanic, 2 were American- American, and 1 was Caucasian, he'd been to our home, as he brought our son home one weekend. He came from a very wealthy family, although you would never know that by his demeanor. I have no idea of the faith's of these young men. But, although none of this all, surprised me at all. I had heard stories of these guys all year. Never, not once was race or religion brought in to describe our son's friends. For that isn't how he views people. I couldn't of been more proud. And on this Mother's Day, I know I did at least one thing right.
As in so many things in life, it starts at home, and is learned by example.

As a kid you know who your friends are. You know who's kidding with you and who's being vicious. I was never offended being told I lived in Jewville and my dad drove a Jew Canoe (Cadillac). My senior year on high school football I joked I was just included to the world's smallest book (Jews who co-captained their high school football team) when I was made a captain. Friends joked I should be a defensive end rather than a D back since I should be good at getting the quarter back. But when it got anti-Semitic it wasn't hard to tell. It wasn't coming from friends. It ticked me off when coaches used criticizing my religion to anger and motivate me. I looked at them like they were out of their minds. 

 

We had some real issues in basketball. I'm guessing the coach was on the side of the anti-Semites since he told another Jewish kid and I to deal with the insults. After being kicked on the back and slammed in the head waiting for a rebound in a shoot around I took care of the situation. The next time this kid went to the hoop at the last second I turned arund and cold cocked him. Laid him out. The real issue there was I was getting playing time as a soph over a couple of seniors. 

 

You move on. But you never forget.

If this is truly the second time the kid should be kicked off the team. I would go to the coach first then the AD if nothing is done about it. Zero tolerance!

RJM:
..."But when it got anti-Semitic it wasn't hard to tell. It wasn't coming from friends. It ticked me off when coaches used criticizing my religion to anger and motivate me. I looked at them like they were out of their minds.

We had some real issues in basketball. I'm guessing the coach was on the side of the anti-Semites since he told another Jewish kid and I to deal with the insults."

StandBallDad, as RJM pointed out in the above partial quote, in a perfect world your suggestion may be effective. Unfortunately, we do not live in a perfect world...

Understand that the world is not perfect, but continuing to turn a blind eye will not solve these type of situations. I grew up and pitched in college in the early 80's, was called all kinds of racial slurs on the mound. This kind of stuff does not belong in baseball or any other sport. It's gotten better because people are standing up to these things. The other issue is this is also a case of bullying in a school sponserd activity. I know at my sons school there is zero tolerance for this type of behavior. 

I have zero respect for coaches who allow this.  This "boys will be boys"  crap is just that. Period.  Mentally strong young men don't insult, berate and intimidate others and good coaches (and parents, and teammates)  who see this crap deal with it quickly before it poisons the team.

       
       


Standard Ball Dad,
Please see my first reply under this topic. 
I certainly do not condone this type of behavior. I myself, would confront such behavior. TJM. But what I was trying to say the previous reply, was that we live in a world,  still filled with racism and bullying from young and old alike. Not that it's acceptable or shouldn't be addressed.

Sorry Shelby didn't to infer that you thought it was acceptable or did't need addressing. The whole bullying and racial intolerance just gets by blood boiling. I was targeted in college as i mentioned earlier and my oldest son now 19 told me just recently how he was bullied in junior HS. 

Well, knowing he is Jewish and given his nose and that COMBINATION being the focal point of the mocking/insults. Hope that clarifies things.

Not really. All Jews don't have big noses, so it means nothing to me. My family is a weird amalgamation of almost every ethnicity save African, (yes, even Jewish), and no one is safe from criticism. I see so many posts on here of parents fighting their kids battles or having paper-thin skin, that I have to question things sometimes.

Hmmn. True of course, I don't nor does my daughter. But kidding/teasing/mocking a kid about being Jewish and looking Jewish because he or she has a big nose, to me, is irresponsible and historically anti-semitic (taken to a horrific extreme, the Nazis). If that does not suffice, oh well. I'm done explaining it.

This isn't a thread about fighting kids battles or having paper thin skins.   If anything, the kid's skin is too thick, if you ask me.  I think he should  have called out the other player for his racist taunt right then and there, rather than letting it stand, without fear of the consequences for himself or the team.    Nor does it seem  fair to say that the dad in this case is "fighting the kids battle."  The parents are  trying hard  to respect their son's wishes about how this should be handled.  But they also don't want to be complicit in letting stand a climate in which teammates feel free to hurl racial taunts at their son, without any fear of consequences.  I hope you aren't suggesting  that this is just the kid's problem to deal with.  It seems to me that  the adults involved need to be informed and then they need to step  in and step up.  

My wife and I are mixed race, and our son could pass for many different races.  When he started on the HS team as a freshman/sophomore he was called names on a regular basis by upper classmen, with "Sand N*gger" being the overwhelmingly used racial term.  In this case it was done more as a hazing ritual than an true anger response.  He ignored it at first, but it became a constant source of irritation.  The guys doing it were the older and top players on the team, so it was important to handle this properly.

 

First, in my opinion -- as an African-American male that was called the N word in school many, many times under all types of scenarios both in a playful and hostile way -- going to the coach or school would be the worst way to handle the situation, (unless there was some concern for kid's safety).  The kid must learn to address these issues with people like this NOW.  It is part of growing up.  Depending on the situation, it may call for a discussion directly with that kid, or with one of the other kids on the team that can act as an intermediary.  If that does not work, and it continues, he may want to confront the other guy with his own rhetoric by calling the kid a racist (or something to that effect).  Kids today know it is wrong to use these racially -provocative terms, and most will shy away from someone that is treating others this way.  There are numerous tactics one can use to address this issue without resorting to going to the coach or school.

 

In my son's case, he went to someone he trusted on the team that was also friends with the guys calling him names, and it stopped immediately thereafter and it never happened again,  He also got along very well thereafter with all the guys that were the perpetrators thereafter.  All learned a lesson in that scenario. 

 

 

I strongly agree that the kid needs to learn to deal and cope and that that is part of growing up, Like I said, I think the kid should have called the taunter on it right then and there. But  I don't agree that the school, coach, etc have no responsibility in setting parameters and enforcing a culture  -- though I'm not sure you meant to imply that  (wouldn't want to be uncharitable.)   A school is an educational institution, not just a free-for-all, where kids are left to fend for themselves, and learn life lessons the "hard-knocks" way.  A team is a school activity.  It's only justification for existence is not to win games, but that it contributes something to the moral, social, and intellectual development of what are still children -- though on the cusp of becoming adults.  Yes, they should be given lots of space in which to work out issues among themselves.  But saying that the coach, AD should never be brought in strikes me as a cop-out, let's them abdicate their responsibilities as teachers and educators.

 

Imagine if the coach knew about such taunting and said,  "work this out between yourself;  it's part of growing up."  I would think most people would find that an absolutely appalling and irresponsible response.  

 

So what's a parent to do when there isn't a culture of accountability in place?  Just leave it be?  I can see something to be said for that.  But that can't be the limits of it.