Advice Needed

quote:

Originally posted by BBMom34:
Just an update on what happened on Monday. Well my son and one other boy are the only junior or seniors left on the team. The coach decided to suspend the rest (7 of them) since they show him no respect. So he will play his freshman and sophomore's who play on his travel team. Sigh its going to be a long season. Yes my son will probably sit the bench but oh well.

Just curious did you ever apologize to the coach. Think about it the coach just had 4 players disrespect him then the parents of one of his best players wants to go home early. I think the coach was wrong but, this guy has to be dying there is no sign of leadership amoung his older players. In case you don't get what I'm talking about the players should want to stay for the JV game and support them. Go the extra mile for the whole team not just the varsity and I bet the coach and players will have a lot more fun.

One coach had a rule that the freshmen, were responsible all the equipment getting it to the field whether practice or games. One year a group of Seniors took that role away from the freshmen carring all the bat bags, Balls, and practice screens. Throughout the season the group of seniors shown selflessness at every oportunity. Funny thing I don't recall a single team problem that year.

Just another update. Its been a long week. Well we lost our 3 games this week. Our team seems to not even want to be on the field. Its very sad. But my son went one of the game and the coaches screamed at him after every pitch to keep his foot closed.
We made mention that he was opening up his hips. After 2nd pitch the coach was at the mound. Son says it was for the catcher since he had seemed not to know the signs. Anyway he went only 2 innings with one hit and 4 K's no walks. So he worked threw the yelling okay. But he did not look his best out there. He said coach told him yet again he was not hitting his spots and he really needs to change his attitude or he was not going to see any more play time. Yes we have taken all your advice and he is nodding his head and doing what he is told. We lost the game 5-3.
The Friday's game we lost 18 - 2. They put my son in again for 1 inning. He had 2K's and one hit. He was happy because he struck out the D1 player (going to Univ of Miami) that player went 3 for 4 and 2 walks that game. But yet again the coach proceeded to tell son what a horrible job he did and thats why they lost the game. He went in in the 4th inning when it was already 15-2.
Yes it is starting to affect him at home also he is just getting really down about himself.
So advice needed yet again First off my sons does not have attitude at all he is a very quiet kid and just nods head yes. Does what he is told. No other coach Football or Basketball have any issues with him they actually like him very well.
He is up against a lot of obstacles this season absolutely no team behind him as a pitcher. He is normally a ground ball pitcher not a K pitcher. But he is doing his best. He also had not even had an AB since his homerun. 3 games ago. So he feels like a failure there also. There is no approaching this coach about anything.
So really would like some more advice on how we get through this nightmare.
Since he is still my son he wants our advice and I am at a point I really not sure what to tell him.

BBmom, maybe its time for your son to go one on one with coach over his "attitude", he needs to stand up for himself. If he is respecting the coaches and being a team player, he may have no choice but to tell the coach face to face his style is hurting the "team".

Doing this for him would make things worse, sometimes a coach may respect a young man for standing up for himself.

quote:

But yet again the coach proceeded to tell son what a horrible job he did and thats why they lost the game. He went in in the 4th inning when it was already 15-2.

Are these comments heard directly by you or relayed through your son? That sounds so "off the wall" and I can't imagine a HS coach saying that to a player

Your kid seems to be one of the better players yet he receives the brunt of the blame personally. Do other players get criticized?

This is strange,.

This really does sound strange. If I was in your shoes I guess I'd have a sit down with my son and say this: "Now listen son; your job is to go out there and do your dead level best every day and DO NOT give the coach any bad attitude."

Then I would probably consider going and talking to a principal or ad, however your school is set up and just talking about the environment of the team.

In the meantime; when he gets a chance to pitch stay locked in with his catcher. Don't get distracted (not even by you telling him not to open his hips; that's not helping things you yelling stuff out because coach is hearing it as you trying to usurp his role... he is obviously insecure about the whole situation....

I'm rambling here.... I think Rz said it best: this is really strange.

Yes It is very off the wall That is why I am asking advice. And No we do not shout anything out at him while he pitching we actually cheer more for the other kids on the team. It is the coaches that are doing the Yelling. We are trying to convince him that he will not get thrown off the team if he goes to AD to address some of the issues he has. Actually most (5)players feel this way about going to the AD. No he criticizes everyone but is a little more severe with my son. He does praise the freshman, sophomore from his travel team that play. He does it in front of everyone. Parents, coaches, players etc. Like I have said previously this is his 3rd year Varsity and he is a junior. He has the ability. This is a new coach 3rd one in 4 years. So we know most of the coaches/players/parents of the other teams we play. He has to date always got a handshake and a word of compliment from these other coaches/players on his performance on the mound. Including this year. No not just the handshake after the game they pull him aside to talk to him and congrat him. Just trying to keep him with it and how to deal with this coach.

quote:

Originally posted by BBMom34:
Yes It is very off the wall That is why I am asking advice. And No we do not shout anything out at him while he pitching we actually cheer more for the other kids on the team. It is the coaches that are doing the Yelling. We are trying to convince him that he will not get thrown off the team if he goes to AD to address some of the issues he has. Actually most (5)players feel this way about going to the AD. No he criticizes everyone but is a little more severe with my son. He does praise the freshman, sophomore from his travel team that play. He does it in front of everyone. Parents, coaches, players etc. Like I have said previously this is his 3rd year Varsity and he is a junior. He has the ability. This is a new coach 3rd one in 4 years. So we know most of the coaches/players/parents of the other teams we play. He has to date always got a handshake and a word of compliment from these other coaches/players on his performance on the mound. Including this year. No not just the handshake after the game they pull him aside to talk to him and congrat him. Just trying to keep him with it and how to deal with this coach.

BBmom34: I would simplely get to him and say “I quit". I can't imagine any parents can endue these kind of abuse. Sorry, I am a little bit short tempered guy. But this is beyond "sick", no AB in 3 games for a home-run hitter. I had enough. The coaches suppose to support players while they are down, not to kick them down in the back. What a jerk! I hope when my son join the HS team next year he won't have to face this kind of coach. Otherwise, I won't let my son play for him for even one day.

The AD has no bearing in this situation---it is the player and the coach for better or worse but it help your son---why do parents want to run to the AD--they are even doing it now in college---what a joke===let the kids grow up


Will pou go to job interviews with him and if he gets the job will you bring him lunch every day?

Cmon folks---they have to learn how handle problems like these on their own

I doubt going to the AD or principal will be of any help. This is the third coach in four years and that tells me there are some problems somewhere. Maybe this jerk is the only guy the AD could get hired because a real coach doesn't want to coach in this situation. Or maybe the AD is buddies with the coach and gave him a job. I agree there are some strange things going on here.

OK TRHIT
What is your advice for him how to handle it because he does not know what to do as do we. Personally I would not deal with it. And move on.
Still have 8 to 9 weeks of this. But when a child goes to his parents for help I have a hard time saying sorry kid your on your own figure it out. I still trying to get him ready for the real world. School at least high school should be a learning lessons for life in my opinion.
And no I will not go to the interview or be bringing him his lunch. HA.
I would like him to learn how to deal with no win situations like an adult. Not like the example this coach is showing. Lets see a 17 yr vs a 50 yr old. Who should be adult? He's been told he S***X where do you go from there? Kids are suppose to respect adult authority figures in there lives Correct?
SO TRHIT I really would like to know how to advice my son?

Some of this doesn't make sense, I agree.

Being a mom myself, I know we tend to be too protective at times.

Couple of things, stop asking your son what's going on, he's gonna play on your emotions, he has to go back and speak to the coach himself, what am I doing wrong coach, what's the problem. Speak up (not in a defiant way when spoken to), the more he lets the coach know he can manipulate him with his tone, the more he might. Do this FIRST. Perhaps as an older player he needs to be a leader, that may be why the coach is ragging on him. Sounds like the team has no leadership.

Also understand that sometimes the better players get their heads banged in because of higher expectations.

Stop with the how good he is (using D1 signee as an example) and how bad the team is. That has no revelance and above all remember this is HS baseball, it will be over soon.

My son was a HS sophmore on an average team. The coach would take the team out to the centerfield wall and scream for 15 minutes after each game. They didn't finish much better than they startd so the effectiveness of the screaming wasn't really measurable.

I don't care if the coach yells. If he yells he should do it out of earshot of parents.

Lots of thing a different about college baseball. The practices are longer. The road trips are longer. The lockerroom yelling sessions after the games can last for hours.

BBMom34

Not so strange. He's busting your chops through your kid. Obviously he drew the line in the sand on your first albeit regrettable conversation.

Here's a little one question quiz and I'll spot you a letter.

Q. The only thing a coach wants to hear from a parent

A. N......

I made this post the first time over 3 years ago in respond to a poster who reported similar issues as you:

************************************
My son had some troubles with his HS coach for reasons we never could put our finger on but as result, he wrote one of his first decent songs....

Destiny

They talk to you like they really know
Tell you you're not good enough
And that's just the way it goes
You know deep down that they're making a mistake
And you just don't know exactly how much you can take

(Chorus)
It's my life, it's my choice
I'm the only one who can control my destiny
My pride and my voice
And I'll only do what I think's best for me

There's always something wrong with
everything you do
It doesn't matter what it is, the problem is with you
And every step you take, they try to hold you back
Instead of seeing what you got, they focus on your lack

It's my life, it's my choice
I'm the only one who can control my destiny
My pride and my voice
And I'll only do what I think's best for me

So walk around those people standin' in your way
Keep on headin' toward your goals every
single day
Don't let what others say affect the things
you do
The words that shape your life should only come from you

It's my life, it's my choice
I'm the only one who can control my destiny
My pride and my voice
And I'll only do what I think's best for me
My life it's my choice
I'm the only one who can control my destiny
My pride and my voice
and I'll only do what I think's best for me
(fade out)

He never quit and kept focused on his goals.
He's still playing baseball and that particular coach went back to coaching just football so I guess they both got what they wanted.

Dreams are great, but at some point you have to get out of bed and make it a reality.

***********************************************
Looking back, it's all still true.
He is still playing baseball on the #1 ranked team in the NAIA and contributing to the team. He's also still writing music. I have no idea what his former coach is doing and neither does he. I'm quite sure he doesn't care.

He did what many here have suggested. He took the verbal beatings with his mouth shut and his head high. (When even other parents noticed and made comments to me about it, I knew it wasn't just my son saying these things...that there was truth in his version that he was being singled out for beratings that we will never understand). He kept his head up and did his job whenever he was given the ball.
He never doubted that he belonged on the field. He learned a lot about himself and how to handle his life through those years. He still holds to that and knows he belongs on the mound and owns it whenever he takes the hill.
In fact, he owns whatever he takes on and does it with pride.

Some of the best advice you can give your son at this point, decide for yourself if you want to be a part of this team. If the answer is yes, then do whatever it takes and take whatever comes to be a leader for the younger players and a contributer to the team as a whole.

I personally think you learn far more when you fight your way through periods of adversity than skating through your moments of achievement.

BBMOM

Very simple--just what I would say to my sons--"suck it up , play the game and handle it"-=-

OK--your son is not the only kid who has had or has porblems with his coach---also we only know what you are telling us--there is something strange here, at least in my estimation.

Baseball Mom,

I admire your concern for your son. If everything you’ve said has happened then you definitely have experienced a bad coach. Also, you need to understand that most of us don’t know you, your son or the coach. What most of us have experienced is many unreasonable parents. You should read some of the nasty emails I get about not knowing anything because we ranked their son too low. To be fair… I’ve also seen some real bad coaches.

I am a big believer in trying to make the best out of every situation, no matter how bad it might seem. I think that is what it takes to be successful in baseball. If someone is telling your son he isn’t any good, prepare your son to prove that person wrong. I know… easier said than done… But the most fragile don’t succeed in this game!

A story that happened just yesterday. We went over to give our grand kid a birthday present. He is 9 years old this weekend. Anyway, he had to leave soon to play a basketball game. I’ve watched him play and he’s pretty good for an 8 year old. Can’t shoot yet, but he has real quick feet and he is maybe a bit more athletic than most of the kids his age playing in that league. They play controlled basketball where the coaches are actually out on the court trying to teach them things and concentrating on sportsmanship. It was great fun to watch those little kids and when he scored a basket you could see a great big smile on his face. He looked surprised that the ball went in, I know I was. I think the final score was something like 6 to 4. Most important… He was an 8 year old kid having a blast.

Well, there we were in the house and his mom started talking about how they were going to get him in a better league next year because he was too good to be playing where he was. She went on to say, he needs better coaching, they’re not teaching him anything and he needs to be around more talented kids. She said all this (very easily) right in front of the young boy and his brothers. I jus about PUKED! Said, well we got to get going now and the wife and I left. In the car I asked the wife… Can you believe what she just did? Wife said, she sounds just like some of the people we see. I said, she just cut down the kids coach, saying he doesn’t know anything and basically told her son he is too good for the kids, the team and the league he is playing on. He can’t possibly develop the right attitude listening to that kind of ****!

Worst of all is that grandson’s mom is a school teacher.

Obviously this story is not meant to compare in anyway to your situation, but it is something to think about.

PG, way to go.

You are right, we often don't realize what we say in front of out kids that automatically makes them think the coach stinks, the player is better, etc.

I will tell you why I love this post. When son was younger everyone TOLD us he should be playing up. He better than everyone, he could we find a better coach. What was the point, he was young, he was having fun. he was learning the skills of playing in a team environment. He was learning it wasn't all about HIM. All would come in due time and it did. We never told him he was better than anyone, ever, we did tell him at times he could be better than his last game, and no matter what except in one instance (too long in a game) never spoke up against the coach, but in general my son has had mostly good coaches. But I am sure that he has had verbal lashings on several occassions for what he feels no reason.

Actually he never came to us and complained, because he knew it would be a s*ck it up, it's not the first time, not the last time.

As stated, we are hearing one side of the story, we don't know you or where your son stands talent wise in relation to others his age. That's tough for me to give opinions. Unless the coach has done something that he can get hurt, he is the coach unless we know otherwise he is a jerk. I would have never asked if "we" could leave early to ice, all coaches wouldhave freaked and son would have freaked that we asked. Bring ice, that is YOUR responsibility.

I am not sure but kind of tired of all the posts that HS coach's have no clue what they are doing. If so, find a good summer and fall team. JMO.

FWIW, if you can't stand this stuff in HS, don't send your kids off to play college ball, you might be shocked. I got a kick out of Dad04's post, can relate as I am sure many of you can as well.

I think the best experience my son has had was playing second fiddle to the prima donas! As he has become stronger and better, many of those guys are no longer playing baseball.

If this coach is playing mind games and trying to bolster his select players - he is not doing them any favors. I know it is hard for parents - you feel helpless - but continue to be supportive and - the hardest part - be supportive of the coach. (at least don't say anything negative.)

I've read here that the "travel" coach (fall and summer ball) can be more influential than the regular HS coach. With the college and HS seasons running together, the college guys just don't always have the time to see players. Much easier in the "off" season.

Good Luck.

quote:

With the college and HS seasons running together, the college guys just don't always have the time to see players. Much easier in the "off" season.

Good excuse for eliminating the high school coach, team, whatever. So how does football do it?

I would like to Thank PG Staff again for another very good post. We enjoy reading your blog at perfectgame BTW. You always seems to put things into prospective. We never really thought he had any talent until you guys at perfectgame rated him in the top 200 in his freshman year. Also would like to thank Bluesky very interesting post.
Actually gives us some hope. We have been telling him that for years.
And for the other posts we never said anything to coach he just berated my son to us and we walked away. I am guilty for wanting to take my son home so he could ice. Personally I wanted to go home.
We just want him to have a good high school memory. Who knows if he is moving on to next level or not.
But again thank you for all of the advice some of it has been very useful. Just keep trying and don't give up on yourself because of circumstances.

quote:

We never really thought he had any talent until you guys at perfectgame rated him in the top 200 in his freshman year.

BBMom,

Sorry, now I'm a bit confused. If you are talking about our lists that rank players... We have never ranked freshman in high school. Even our current sophomore class (2011) only has a top 25 at this point. Could you explain what you mean by the top 200 in his freshman year? I'm not sure we would even know enough top freshmen in the country in order to make a list that big. Could you please explain.

Opps I meant sophomore it was the summer he was a freshman going to be a sophomore. Sorry.

quote:

Originally posted by Bulldog 19:

quote:

With the college and HS seasons running together, the college guys just don't always have the time to see players. Much easier in the "off" season.

Good excuse for eliminating the high school coach, team, whatever. So how does football do it?

Not saying that at all. Football - you may have noticed - has a slightly higher budget than baseball. Perhaps they can afford scouts to scour the HS games. Now, I have seen Head Coaches (Fox) at local HS games as well, but then I live in a state blessed with highly rated colleges everywhere.

My point - not well made - is that there are many ways to be seen. If a good player is not playing HS ball, imo, a red flag would be raised. otoh, I don't think players are penalized (by college recruiters) if they play on weak hs teams or on poorly coached hs teams. You can't help what district you live in.

Baseball has PG. Football has Rivals. Football does basically the same thing with identification camps (showcases), rating organizations and first hand scouting during the season. Also, high school coaches do play a larger role in football recruiting, compared to baseball. The "power" HS football programs are long-established in metro areas and pipeline players to programs year after year. A good example is Miami Northwestern HS players to the "U" of Miami. Look at the roster.

College football does spend ALOT more $$ recruiting first hand than every other sport, probably combined.

quote:

College football does spend ALOT more $$ recruiting first hand than every other sport, probably combined.

They also bring in quite a bit more too at 90% of schools. And they have a much larger roster than other sports too..

quote:

Football does basically the same thing with identification camps (showcases), rating organizations and first hand scouting during the season.

Football has combines yes. But football does not have "travel teams" that play year round. That was the point I was making..

BBmom, I really think the situation has gotten a bit out of control.

When my son started HS I made a goal. The goal was to never talk to the hs coach. EVER. Unless he wanted to talk to me.

My son is a senior this year. The coach and I have talked about the weather, how graduated players are doing in jc, college or pros but never about my son. My son takes care of that. Really, in 4 years I have spent less than 5 minutes with the coach one on one.

My son would kick my butt if I ever talked to the coach.

MY two cents, let the kid take care of it. Sink or swim. Baseball is a precursor to life. Life is more important. I know you know what to do. Tell him and make the kid follow through if it is important to him. Or not.

The coach would prefer never to talk to you. The coach wants to be respected by the players, they want to be over the "daddy days". Time to grow the kid up.

My husband had a saying I think it goes "Respect your elders until they show you different"

quote:

Originally posted by Bulldog 19:

quote:

College football does spend ALOT more $$ recruiting first hand than every other sport, probably combined.

They also bring in quite a bit more too at 90% of schools. And they have a much larger roster than other sports too..

quote:

Football does basically the same thing with identification camps (showcases), rating organizations and first hand scouting during the season.

Football has combines yes. But football does not have "travel teams" that play year round. That was the point I was making..

This was in today's paper - thought I would share.

http://www.newsobserver.com/821/story/1433425.html

quote:

N.C. State baseball coach Elliott Avent offered Jason Creasy a scholarship before he ever threw a pitch in a high school varsity baseball game.

Creasy, a 6-foot-4, 170-pound right-handed baseball pitcher, is a sophomore at Clayton High.

"It seems sort of strange, but that's the way baseball recruiting works now," said Clayton coach Stacey Hauser.

"You never see a college coach at a high school game anymore. All the recruiting is done off the summer."

Last summer Creasy's fastball was clocked in the 86 to 88 mph range, Hauser said.

"That got the colleges' attention. If he has normal development over the next couple of years, he'll get faster and better.

"He has a tremendous upside. It is just amazing to think of a young man getting scholarship offers before he has ever played in high school."

College coaches' evaluation of high school players in most sports is primarily done in the summer in club games and showcases.

College football coaches still watch a lot of high school game film, but that's changing.

It is becoming more and more important for potential college football players to attend combines and summer camps.

I have seen several posts about talking to the AD but I don't think I have read any about talking to the coach PRIVATELY. It seems like all the conversations have been at practice or a game. I have never coached beyond travel level but I always tell the parents that if they want to have a conversation, I will be glad to talk to them but not at practice or at games. No matter how quiet you talk or even if you move away from everyone it is still a public conversation and everyone is just going to guess and rumor about the conversation.

Make an appointment with the coach to clear the air. I don't mean go and complain but rather offer "coach what can I do as a parent to help my son meet your expectations." Don't comment on coaching style or motivation. Your goal is for your son to get better not be the coaches favorite. Give the coach a chance to voice his opinions in private and be willing to listen. You don't have to agree but be willing to hear what he has to say. Don't offer your side of the story unless specifically asked. If the coach makes general statements "tell your son to hit his spots" then ask " Are there drills you recommend that he should be doing to help that?" Ask the coach "Is there anything I do as a parent to help you?" Again you don't have to agree but being willing to listen. You may say "no just cheer the team" or "he may say just tell the rest of the parents to shut up" you can offer "how about if I just stay out of those conversations and not add to the fire." I guarantee you will gain more from the conversation by just listening and letting the coach vent then you will trying to change him.

As far as what started the original problem:

1) Your son should have stayed until coach said it was time to go. Coach was disciplining the team and you asked your son to skip it. Win and lose as a team. My son has played more than one flawless game and ended up running poles after the game with his teammates for their failure to execute. I kept my opinion of this to myself and reinforced to my son that you share the glory and the faults as a team. No one, no matter how good, is above that on a team.

2)The comments between you and coach after that first game should have been resolved the next day between you and coach. You have let this go on too long to go back and say "hey coach I am not happy about what you said 3 weeks ago.

Any conversations you have are between you and the coach. Don't go back to your son or even other parents to discuss your conversation. They don't even need to know you had a conversation with the coach. If the coach is still unreasonable and retaliates against your son then you will have a clear cut reason to leave the team. Again sharing your reasons with anyone outside your family is counter productive.

quote:

Any conversations you have are between you and the coach. Don't go back to your son or even other parents to discuss your conversation. They don't even need to know you had a conversation with the coach.

I know several coaches who will not talk to a parent about the player unless the player is there in the discussion as well.This way whatever is said is heard by both the parent and the player.

What do you guys think about initiating communication with a coach regarding summer colligiate programs? College player obviously.