Bible study after practice?

quote:

Originally posted by Jimmy03:
As a person in an autority position over a student, it would be inappropriate for a coach or teacher to invite the student to a Bible study. It very well may be optional, but the perception will always exist that it is expected.

The coach should know better and no student or parent should feel that they have to compromise their principles or beliefs to deal with this.

BINGO! End of story.

quote:

the perception will always exist that it is expected

This is one of the sad directions the country has taken in the last 4 decades or so. A person's perception should not/does not define what is right and wrong. Just read this thread and you'll see about 50 different perceptions of the same thing. If you let perceptions dictate what's wrong, EVERYTHING will always be wrong.

quote:

Originally posted by Tx-Husker:

quote:

the perception will always exist that it is expected

This is one of the sad directions the country has taken in the last 4 decades or so. A person's perception should not/does not define what is right and wrong. Just read this thread and you'll see about 50 different perceptions of the same thing. If you let perceptions dictate what's wrong, EVERYTHING will always be wrong.

The problem is the perception of one person, the coach can determine the player's baseball future when religion should have nothing to do with the ability to play baseball.

Just because one person has a perception of something, doesn't make that something wrong...per se. All you have to do is look at states' laws on the same topics and you can different states perceive the same things differently.

As a coach I can tell you that I in fact use optional as a way to determine who is serious and who is not. If I say "Guys anyone wanting to get in some extra bp can come by the cages on Sunday afternoon. A couple of Sr's will be there to open up and throw. Anyone wanting to take advantage of this can. It's optional."

Now I will want to know who came. I will take really take notice of who does not. And it will influence my perception of the player or players that do not come. And I dont sugar coat it I will let the players know I know who came and who didnt. The ones that dont come on a routine basis better be hitting well. And if two guys are equal and I have to make a move the guy putting in the extra work is going to get the nod when a need to make a move.

Now if a coach says he is going to hold Bible Study after practice he is going to take notice of who came. During the course of these Bible studies there will be some interaction and some bonding will take place. This coach will also notice who does not attend. Will this possibly influence his opinion of a player who does attend? Will it influence his opinion of a player who does not? If two kids are very close in ability and he has to make a decision on a pinch hitter or a late inning replacement will he make a decision based on his new gained relationship through the Bible studies? I dont know. But he could. But it def could be percieved if he does make a move and the Bible study kid gets in before the non Bible study kid does.

Why put yourself in this posistion in the first place? Your a coach. If he wants to go to church , attend Bible study , etc etc - then that needs to be totally seperate from baseball and the coaches.

Anyone who thinks for one minute that a player would not feel pressure to attend is kidding themselves. Not unless they were entrenched as a starter and an upper classman and a mature person. And even that player could feel pressure to join in.

Its baseball. Its not Bible study time. You can teach life lessons through the game and I think you should as a coach. But its not your place to get into religion. JMO

quote:

Originally posted by RJM:
How about if I change it to lack of respect for other people's religious beliefs? The reason being it's forcing people in a public environment (public school is a public environment) to pray to a god other than their own.

Thanks for the apology RJM; it's accepted. I still disagree with your statement, based on the facts (in the OP) of the situation as we know it. No one is being forced to do anything. It's a voluntary bible study and suppositions that it's anything more than voluntary are speculative. Maybe he's Jewish and they're studying the Old Testament from his perspective. There's nothing said about praying; although I'll give you that it's probably included.

WAG!

To assume that a coach will ostracize a player for not participating in a bible study is antithetical to living in a free country. A player can choose to attend or choose not to attend. As stated previously, we expect our sons to handle coaches on their own and contact college recruiters on their own, yet they are unable to handle a bible study decision? This is ridiculous!


We live in a country founded on Judeo Christian principals, and we are better for it. Jesus was Jewish and for centuries Christianity was considered a sect of the Jewish tradition. The first Christians were all Jewish. I fail to understand the division between Christians and Jewish people. We share a very similar faith. One still awaits a Messiah, and one believes he has arrived. Both expect the Messiah to have been born Jewish.


By the way for those who are confused Catholics are Christians and are responsible to some degree for maintaining and furthering the faith that allowed protestant denominations to be formed and break away. No one is perfect, all can be forgiven.

There is nothing wrong with a bible study, it is a GOOD thing. We now live in times where Good is called Evil and Evil is called Good. Examples abound, this thread is just one.

I am generally an intolerant person.

I remember when I sent my son to the local parochial school. It was OK when they played baseball at recess. But when the started to play "sokka", I got him the heck out of there.

Who needs that kind of influence?

quote:

Originally posted by Coach_May:
Its baseball. Its not Bible study time. You can teach life lessons through the game and I think you should as a coach. But its not your place to get into religion. JMO

Now and everything else you stated is BINGO!

Thanks all for keeping this topic to a good discussion.

I understand what RJM is saying, for those that beleive that part of their faith has to do with educating others, that is not how it is done in many other faiths. If my son were asked to lead a bible study regarding his faith, he wouldn't do it, because it is personal, private and very complicated. Those things are left to those that teach it, study it, discuss and argue it among themselves within their own faith.

For those (not necessarily here) that think it is ok, remember that you are looking at it from your own personal point of view and your own perception of what your particular faith night do (spreading the word), perhaps not taking into account that this is not the way it is done in other faiths.

Good thread folks; what does it have to do with baseball? It's happening at lots of schools in various little ways.
My oldest boy used to really be irked that after football games they all prayed at the 50-yard line. Not because of prayer... he just felt it was insincere and made a big show (they just ran off the field after a loss)... He's a Christian and we play Bible trivia a lot... he could name you the 15 judges and the 12 tribes of Israel faster than Tim Tebow can leap a linebacker. He could name you the 66 books forward and then backward if you like...
It just bothered him the way a lot of guys acted all week in practice and then when they had an audience.... put on a big show.

I have not read all the posts on this topic as I usually don't get into the religion thing especially on public boards, but I'll just put this question out for perspective.

What if the coach was a muslim and wanted to do a quick Koran study after a practice that was totally voluntary. Would that be OK? Freedom of religion and all that.

I'm not a muslim by any stretch of the imagination, but would your perspective change if that was the case? What if your son felt a little pressure to attend? Would you want him attending that study? What if the coach put another kid into the game that was attending the Koran study, but your kid didn't attend. Would you feel the coach was being biased because of the other kids attendance at the Koran study?

Be honest with yourself. If your feelings change about the situation I mentioned, it should be the same for any religion we are talking about. I think most people here are christians so they see nothing really wrong with this happening. If it were turned around, would it be the same? Be honest now.

Just food for thought.

quote:

No. It's apples and oranges. If a coach from a public school system is found to be practicing religion and leading in the excercises, he's breaking the law.

Actually it is not, what would be against the law is the school/goverment trying to prevent a coach or teacher from studying religon and leading religeous excercises, away from school. They are individuals and have the right to practice their religion.
Just as a 17 year old kid has the right to not go or go if he wants to to a bible/koran/torah study.
As long as the kid keeps his grades up and finishes his chores around the house, and is home by 9 on a school night, if he wanted to go he can go.

If the coach was leading a study of the koran my son would not attend and not concern himself with it having an impact on his playing time.

If you can hit, you will play.

I had to really think about whether or not to join in on this topic. The best part of this post is we are able to have one in an open forum. The reason we have this opportunity is because our founding fathers using their strong religious beliefs set us up a free nation to worship as we please. I hate to point out that IMO the supreme court miss-interpreted the first amendment which states "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof . . ." This statement says that congress can not establish a religion nor can it make laws prohibiting free exercise of anyone to practice any faith. It says that the government cannot say if you live in the USA you will be governed by baptist beliefs...we believe that Jesus died for us... ETC ETC. However If it was not for the fundamental Christian beliefs of our forefathers in putting together our founding documents we would today be a split nation or nations, I firmly believe that by removing religious fundamentals and teachings of right and wrong ( not religion itself ) from our schools had made us a weaker nation. I also believe that it is my duty not anyone else to teach my children what I believe in such a way that they can stand on their own and not feel threatened by something different.



So I understand that teachers are paid by the government and hence people feel that because of that, then that employee should not be allowed to establish a religion. This coach is not ! He is exercising his right under the constitution to have free exercise to express is believe. If he wanted to call time out walk to the middle of the mound and drop to one knee to pray and ask anyone that wanted to join him come to the mound he would be exercising his right to do that. Not that this is not extreme example but is protected by the first amendment.



And if the coach did play favoritism which I doubt; you would have the right to exercise your choice to not play for that coach. Are you going to have the same reactions if your son/daughter gets into the work force and their boss has the ten commandments hanging in their office. Or call you into his office and sits you down then says excuse me, closes his eyes for a moment of silence to ask for help in making the correct decisions before your meeting.



It is also my opinion that no matter your religious belief or lack there of, if you are that concerned over this then maybe you are not as strong in your belief and have not conveyed that to junior as to feel threatened by something this simple. Someone strong in their belief - but not the same as the coach's would take the same time to step away and hold their own few moments of reflection.



At the very least the coach is protected by the same rules and laws that people who disagree are using to justify their viewpoint.

If he were teaching something other than our families beliefs then my opinion still has not changed. Rather than encouraging my son to attend as in the first example I would allow him the chance to make his own decision and explore other beliefs in the hope that he is understanding why we believe the way we do. I would encourage him to question anything he was confused about.



If the coach used this as a way to separate players and show favoritism the same coach could do the same thing without a bible study. He is in close contact with the kids on a daily basis and would be able to tell who is in line with his faith based on the way they present themselves, the language they use how they interact with others ETC.. We do the same thing in who we allow our kids to be around whether it is family like Aunt Mary that will spend all day trying to bring you to the lord and quoting verses or Bill the next door neighbor that has a Satanist shrine over his BBQ in the back yard, to the friends we let our kids hang around with.



The World is about choices and here is an opportunity for the kid to make one !

I had written a post about perception versus fact, etc. Faith was involved also along with Judeo-Christian principles, etc.

Absolute waste of time because this really isn't about faith or religion itself. It is about power and who wields it,their judgement and the potential for abuse.

Seperation of Church and State...noble concept in that the state shall not dictate or establish any religion, so that the state cannot abuse it's power as did England in the 1600-1700's (dates may be off). Caused the migration of English to the Americas in search of religious freedom. In this case the Coach is the State and the players are the Citizens (though captive as they cannot in most cases changes schools freely. Remember the Reserve Clause?).

The problem with the coach led Bible study isn't a problem with religion but rather the potential abuse of power.

Yes, it was voluntary in nature and nobody was pressured to attend as are the optional workouts and preseason conditioning players do. As Coach May said, he keeps track of those showing up at optional workouts...all coaches would keep track of this mentally. Does anyone really think a coach wouldn't know who shows up for his Bible studies that he is holding? Could those in attendance gain some favortism or positive perception from the coach?

Maybe...maybe not. Who knows if the coach is perfect and would never let his own opinion or perception overrule the facts or performance on the field. In reality his opinions could become self fulfilling as players opportunities may be predetermined based on the coaches opinion and perception of a player based on attendance of a Bible study. Far fetched; perhaps but to deny the possibility is naive as the coach is judge, jury and executioner of a captive audience that has no real alternative if they want to play baseball as they have no real choice on where they can play.

It is solely about power and the proper application of it's use.

bballman,
I already asked that question and didn't get any answers.

Floridafan,
I respect your opinion, but no it's not the same, judaism follows the old testament, christianity the new, there are major differences. There is nothing wrong with bible study, it just depends on whose and which bible you are studying. I agree that Judaism and Catholicism are very close in nature, but they don't try to influence each other, I think that the bigger arguments lie within different sects of chrisitianity (correct me if I am wrong) trying to influence one over the other, the same that differences lie between the different sects of judaism, trying to influence each other. Not sure if any are aware, but many very religious jews look down upon those that are not religious and do not follow the book of jewish law.
How about participation in a study where those of different religions taik about the diffferences and teach others tolerance? I don't see that done often. Our world might be a better place for it.

Regardless, doesn't belong on the baseball field.

As far as pre game prayers, as far as I know from son the term "the Lord" has always been used, which is universal in nature and should be unless the school has religious affiliations.

BTW, jewish scholars and teachers don't study the bible they study the Talmud, the book of laws, even among the different sects they argue on interpretation, which I beleive that faith is.

quote:

Originally posted by GovernorTim:

If he were teaching something other than our families beliefs then my opinion still has not changed. Rather than encouraging my son to attend as in the first example I would allow him the chance to make his own decision and explore other beliefs in the hope that he is understanding why we believe the way we do. I would encourage him to question anything he was confused about.

My kids have been to church, to temple, to mosques (sp) they have the right to explore and ask questions at the appropriate time at the appropriate places.
After baseball practice, IMO and most likely theirs as well is not the appropriate place.

Kids join sports teams to become a part of the team family and participate in a group activity, I know in my sons case his bond with his team makes the game more special, not wanting to participate, can set them apart from that group. So the not mandatory can become mandatory, in their opinion.

I am not sure why anyone doesn't understand this, we are approaching it with adult attitudes, not those of a teen.

quote:

It is also my opinion that no matter your religious belief or lack there of, if you are that concerned over this then maybe you are not as strong in your belief and have not conveyed that to junior as to feel threatened by something this simple. Someone strong in their belief - but not the same as the coach's would take the same time to step away and hold their own few moments of reflection.

There's a difference in what a teen student-athlete believes religiously, his right to believe it and the strength of his convictions, and feeling pressure to participate in another person's religious beliefs. Especially when the other person is an adult with power over his ability to play a game.

Kids also join cults like "Heaven's Gate" and "Jones Town".
They sucked people in on feeling they are part of a team.

TPM points taken..

Now would it make a difference to anyone? And we do not know the answer to this....

At what point after practice does this happen? Is it after the rakes are stored and the tarp layed out?
Or after everyone is released and have a chance to change and shower? At which point they have the bible study back at the field in order to use the bleachers.

First, I'm a person of faith and I never made that a secret from parents or players. I'll never apologize for that nor shirk my duties as a Christian. No, I never tried to have a Bible Study or religious chat after a game. I did, often, make sure that I shared my values about drinking, drugs, etc. I made sure that I corrected players from using foul language and would sometimes pull them aside and tell them why such statements were offensive to me. I know for a fact that players often looked to me for guidance who were already practicing their faith and wanted to talk about the challenges of today. I always made sure to mention that I was no role model. Instead, I asked players to look up to others who were so much better people than I.

I will say that I don't like the idea of how this was set up and that it does make it awkward for the players. I remember once having a young man of the Jewish Faith come up to me and tell me he was Jewish. In short, it didn't matter to me. He was and is a person I think highly of. As Coaches, we have to understand that there are many Faiths and Denominations. IMO, this scenerio can actually hinder avenues of communication for players. I could elaborate but won't. I'd also suggest that by my parents and players knowing what I represented with my faith, they always knew that I'd be there for them. Unfortunately that has all too often happen when asked to speak at the funeral of some of my players. There are avenues available like the Fellowship of Christian Athletes where this coach could witness his Faith to athletes. In using that approach, I believe the Coach would actually reach more kids and in an atmosphere where everyone is comfortable. JMHO!

quote:

Originally posted by RJM:

quote:

It is also my opinion that no matter your religious belief or lack there of, if you are that concerned over this then maybe you are not as strong in your belief and have not conveyed that to junior as to feel threatened by something this simple. Someone strong in their belief - but not the same as the coach's would take the same time to step away and hold their own few moments of reflection.

There's a difference in what a teen student-athlete believes religiously, his right to believe it and the strength of his convictions, and feeling pressure to participate in another person's religious beliefs. Especially when the other person is an adult with power over his ability to play a game.

Another BINGO!

Tim,
Yes it does matter. If it takes place on or at the field it matters.

I repsect everyone's opinion, but I am going with those here I know that have coached in HS and their opinions. No problem with the coach letting it be known he is a man of strong faith, believes in god and family and talks to the kids aobut having faith in the game and themselves, and about drinking and drugs and bad language on the field and where it might be more comfortable to discuss religious views. Thanks guys.

quote:

Originally posted by Tx-Husker:

quote:

the perception will always exist that it is expected

This is one of the sad directions the country has taken in the last 4 decades or so. A person's perception should not/does not define what is right and wrong. Just read this thread and you'll see about 50 different perceptions of the same thing. If you let perceptions dictate what's wrong, EVERYTHING will always be wrong.

Apparently you got hung up on one segment of a sentence.

Let me make it simpler and clearer:

No school related person in a position of authority should do what this coach did.

This is a fascinating discussion, and I doubt I will add much insight beyond the great points previously made, but I had an interesting conversation on this topic today.

I am a Protestant Christian, but not fanatical about it. My son has split time in HS between private Catholic HS and Public HS. Today, I had lunch with a good friend and fellow baseball enthusiast who is Jewish, but not fanatical about it. He has 2 boys who are launched in life, and who went through their years of HS and Collegiate sports.

I told him about this thread, and the issue raised in the original post, and asked his take on it. Immediately, we arrived at the same conclusion many of you have reached: the Coach-led "optional" Bible study is inappropriate, because of the issue of the position of authority and power the Coach holds over the players.

Yes, the religious aspect of it compounds the sensitivity; but the primary problem is that it is an inappropriate activity due to the authority the Coach has over the players.

We say it all the time that the definition of "optional" workouts, field days, fund raising, etc. means that "if you opt to skip them, you have opted not to play for the team."

How can a teenage kid be expected to see any "optional" activity being led by his Coach in any other way than these other "optional" activities?

Take religion out of the mix. What if the Coach was conducting "optional" Amway meetings and invited the kids to consider starting their own part-time business? What if the Coach organized "optional" volunteer days for local charities or community organizations? Would your players feel a subtle pressure to participate, and would you as a parent feel a pressure for your player to participate?

The rub here is that these players are a captive audience -- they cannot quit the school and go join another team -- and the Coach has authority over them. The religious aspect just compounds the problem, by a coach stepping out beyond the bounds of his scope of work.

In the work place, who does not buy Girl Scout Cookies from the Boss' kid? There, you are an adult of equal standing, who has the power to choose to leave your position to play for another team.

My friend was more firm on the need to confront the matter than I, and that did have to do with the religious aspect of the over-step by the Coach. Truth be told, if roles were reversed, I would be the one who would feel the stronger need to confront the issue.

When we chose to enroll our son in a private Catholic HS, we knew he would be required to take religion classes -- rooted in the Catholic faith. We made that choice going in. We (and the school) told him to approach these courses as he would any ethics & morals or history course. Listen, learn, be respectful, and learn the answers to pass the tests. Whenever he wanted to discuss differences between what he has learned at home, in church, and in school, we discussed it at home.

His biggest issue was that the new Head coach forgot to lead the team in prayer before the first game of the season ... and they won. they proceeded to pray for the next few games ... and they lost. Like any good baseball player, he asked the Coach if they could stop praying because it was bad luck.

What to do? If it bothers you, then my friend an I suggest respectfully confronting the Coach on the grounds of this being an inappropriate activity because of his position of authority over the players. You can discuss the religious sensitivity, but make sure that you keep your eye on the ball -- it is about an inappropriate role for the Coach. There is no need to turn this into a religious war ... and I expect that a Coach of good heart and motives will see this if the issue is couched appropriately.

As I said, I probably did not add much to the dialogue, but it sure made for a fun lunch discussion.

southpaw_dad,
What ya talking about not adding much that was a great post!

Taking religion out if it yes, the coach represents a position of authority and that should be the cause for concern because it places pressure on the player to make a decision that he thinks might affect his playing time. I liked the Amway analogy. JMO.

Thanks.

BTW, my sister in law works for a school board super (assistant)n and she is going to find out if in the state of NJ this would be considered legal.

Speaking of being indoctrinated or an hour, can they opt out of English Lit?

quote:

Originally posted by TPM:
southpaw_dad,
What ya talking about not adding much that was a great post!

Taking religion out if it yes, the coach represents a position of authority and that should be the cause for concern because it places pressure on the player to make a decision that he thinks might affect his playing time. I liked the Amway analogy. JMO.

Thanks.

BTW, my sister in law works for a school board super (assistant)n and she is going to find out if in the state of NJ this would be considered legal.

In NJ, a coach cannot lead in any kind of prayer in the public school system. It's illegal. As for the privates, religious schools etc.., That may be a different story.

To stir it a little, and as one who has worn a WWJD band 24/7 for many years, with a law degree, I suppose if your worst problem is a coach having Bible study, life isn't too bad.

On a local blog, someone commented about my wrist band favorably; in reply a local lady who thinks I was born in the seventh circle of you-know-where commented that Christ referred to lawyers as a "brood of vipers". (He actually referred to Pharisees that way but why be accurate?)

What if the coach had it at his home once a week? Or at a local church once a week? Can a coach never have a Bible study with any of his players, any time anywhere? What if the coach is a pastor, as was one of my high school football coaches-could he never invite players to church?

I guess it's a line drawing exercise as are so many things like this, and we all draw the lines a little differently. I'd personally be thrilled if a coach had a Bible Study. A Koran study, not so much so it's a line drawing thing. I see both sides.

The decision of religion should be decided by the parents. A coach has no business influencing kids to attend religious classes or bible studies. A coach's job is to coach sports.

quote:

Originally posted by zombywoof:

quote:

Originally posted by TPM:
southpaw_dad,
What ya talking about not adding much that was a great post!

Taking religion out if it yes, the coach represents a position of authority and that should be the cause for concern because it places pressure on the player to make a decision that he thinks might affect his playing time. I liked the Amway analogy. JMO.

Thanks.

BTW, my sister in law works for a school board super (assistant) and she is going to find out if in the state of NJ this would be considered legal.

In NJ, a coach cannot lead in any kind of prayer in the public school system. It's illegal. As for the privates, religious schools etc.., That may be a different story.

I wasn't asking about prayer, I was asking about conducting bible studies on school property.

quote:

I wasn't asking about prayer, I was asking about conducting bible studies on school property.

What you discover may depend on how you ask the question. If bible studies on school facilities are allowed I'll bet it has to be open to all students and not a baseball team function. It may have to be held in a classroom.

Postscript ... I discussed this with southpaw_son over dinner, after putting up my previous post, and asked his opinion. He had a multi-faceted take on the issue ...

He said that since he is a Christian, who goes to church regularly, he would not be bothered by it; but he could see how someone could be uncomfortable with it. He thinks he would attend some times, and not attend when he did not have the time.

When I asked him if he would feel a subtle pressure to participate, he said that he would feel that pressure; but that if he was not a Christian, or just was not interested, he would feel comfortable telling the Coach that he did not feel comfortable participating, unless it was a team requirement -- like the religion classes were in the private Catholic HS he attended.

When I asked him if he were to find himslef on the bench, thinking he belonged on the field, and he was not participating in the Bible study, if he would feel like there was a connection. He said he believes he would definitely think that was a part of it. To his credit, he backed it up by saying that if he found himself on the bench, he would then go speak with his Head Coach and ask him what he needs to do to get on the field.

SP_son added that if the Coach is a minister, and he were to tell his players that his church has a youth group, or a HS Bible study, and that any player who is interested is welcome to attend -- and that it is completely optional; he would not see any problem with that ... because it is involved with his work, it is not being held at the school, it is something that is happening whether or not the players attend, and is is very clear players do not have to attend.

About a Coach organizing kids to participate in "optional" charity or public service activities, he said he would feel the pressure to participate, but that he was okay with this, because it is a good thing to do, and it may be seen as something positive by colleges ... (always the pragmatist).

So to sum up the thoughts of one HS ball player who is coming at this from a Christin perspective:

-- It would be weird for a Coach at a non-religious HS to hold a Bible study at the field after practice or games

-- He would feel a subtle pressure to participate, and would have thoughts that not participating might hurt his playing time

-- That if he were a non-Christian, he would be bothered by such a program

-- That if he thought not participating was hurting his playing time, he would feel comfortable talking to his Head Coach and asking what he has to do to get on the field

-- That he would be okay with a Coach who is a Minister by profession inviting the players to participate in a program at his church that is open to the general public, and attended by other HS kids.

Not a bad set of answers, if you ask me.

Just finished reading the whole thread. A very interesting discussion to say the least.

2012 just got home and I ran this by him inserting his coach into the scenario. 2012's answer was that he would feel pressure to attend. This matches the earlier post of Coach May.

A very good dicsussion from many angles. I see this more from a power position than a religious position.

Every one keep up the good views.

They may actually get out on the field next week.

quote:

Baseball is like church. Many attend but few understand.

- Wes Westrum - MLB Catcher

Interesting that the actual coaches, not long-winded parents, who weighed in typically have one line posts saying that religion and HS baseball are best kept seperate. Thanks Coach May and TR! No -brainer, bad idea, regardless how good the intentions. As someone earlier pointed out, even if the sessions are truly optional, the coach is a human, and may likely begin to favor a player he is developing a relationship with through his Bible study. The opportunity to gain such favor with a school coach by participating in an activity that some may find objectionable, and therefore choose not to participate in, should not be allowed for the good of everyone involved.

would you rather have the players meet on the weekend and have a drinking party?? a little sarcasm

I've played on many teams that have a Bible study or prayer session before or after games.

The one team I played with where the coach led these sessions, it became a pretty serious problem.

The rest of the teams had the good sense to have a third party lead these sessions. A parent local pastor, priest, rabbi, it doesn't matter. This method makes it truly vountary and takes away the pressure that players might feel to attend.

I don't think most coaches who do this are trying to push their beliefs on the kids, but religion and baseball...more specifically baseball parents...don't mix well.

TPM - Hit the nail on the head for me. This is a bad idea as the coach is in a position of authority.....What if your boss was going to lead an optional religous meeting (offsite)during lunch? For me, this is a similiar situation as the baseball players.

quote:

Taking religion out if it yes, the coach represents a position of authority and that should be the cause for concern because it places pressure on the player to make a decision that he thinks might affect his playing time.

Guilty. My players used to say I talked too long as well ... but they were always clear on what I expected.

I tried to type slowly for those who cannot read very fast