College Athletes & Grades

He should be attending a lot more than 25% of his classes. He should have all his classes in the morning. He should only be missing Friday classes during road trips. On Monday mornings after weekend road trips and weeknight away games he just has to have the discipline to get out of bed.

He is an athlete/student until Junior year, then "student athlete".

is he in Lubbock? Great city. Sam Jones (Boston Celtics) & my team played basketball at Texas Tech

Bob

Agree with RJM, it's all about discipline. There is a lot of valuable homework/study time on bus rides and in hotels when traveling. I am not in any way saying it's easy because it's not but with a 4.0 and playing D1 baseball he's already a high achiever.

Best of luck to your son in the classroom and on the field!

ilovebaseball posted:

Bob - I'm trying not to disclose his college - It may be Texas Tech (Lubbock), it may be not -- his team has been on the road for 10+ days at a time.  He's taking online courses as much as he can.  He attends his classes when he's in town. He's concerned about the time he's missing - and YES, he sits is the front rows when he's in town for classes.  Just looking for advise.

10+ days on the road is tough. Sounds like he's at a nothern/cold weather school. 

Maybe he can find a buddy in each class to help pass along information while he's traveling. 

I forgot to mention he's not on baseball scholarship, he's a walk-on.   

Why is a team on the road for ten days except spring break?

Many teams have tutors traveling and morning classes.

bob

That is why D3 is an excellent option for Student - Athletes. 

Is your concern that his grades are likely to suffer, or that he's not really learning ... or something else? 

My son will be in his shoes next fall. I don't know exactly how it will go, but in deciding on the school, part of what helped my son was the school's focus on academics. They do send tutors on the road, for example. 

So my expectation is that baseball will consume much more of his time, but that he will also learn, and -- assuming he applies himself -- get good grades.

The question you asked was "what should we say to him?"  I didn't read that he asked a question, but rather made a statement.   

Give him your support.  He is making a 4.0.  Tell him good job.  There was a post on here last year to tell your son on game day to "have fun, play well, I love you".  That about sums it up.

My son is at a very high academic school.  He is blessed that he didn't come in with a HS 4.9 gpa, because he doesn't expect to make those kind of grades now.   There was a suicide at his school the week before classes started his freshman year that shook up the community....I certainly didn't want to add to any pressure he may have felt at the time, nor do I now.  

I tell him to "just stay eligible".  He has done more than that, thank goodness, but they need to realize that college is tough, playing a sport makes it tougher, and freshman year is for feeling it all out and adjusting.  I try to stay out of it mostly, but have impressed upon him 1)  that he needs to graduate in 4 years, and 2) that he will need to make up the difference if he doesn't get the "good student discount' with our auto insurer. So far, better than good.

Is your son thinking about leaving the team as a starter in conference games?  He certainly won't be the first, but I bet there are several on the bench that are drooling to take his place. 

ilovebaseball posted:

I forgot to mention he's not on baseball scholarship, he's a walk-on.   

Maybe this is somewhat off topic, but as a starter in conference games, would it be reasonable for him to be put on scholarship next year? Seems like he's earned it.

ilovebaseball posted:

OK - seems I'm getting a little beat up here.  My son chose his school FIRST.  He had no desire to go to a D2, D3 or a  community college.  I am asking advise from fellow parents who may be in the same predicament.   

As it has for you, it was very eye opening when my son attended a high level D-1 school.  Fortunately, my son has always been very organized and received a lot of counseling helped in choosing the classes he needs at the right time.  By that I mean that the easier classes where taken during baseball seasons so that study time wasn't as demanding.  Also, the school had a great tutoring program and when on the road time was time for studying along with playing ball.  He never took any classes that required lab time.   Most of his professors were accommodating for him in getting information from the classes and getting any require work in on time.   Son was able to communicate well with the professors about his time schedule and worked they worked together to get through the classes.  

Time management and prioritizing has be a strong suite for my son which has paid of in many ways.  There was little I could do to help him as he had to work it all out on his own.  That was the hardest part as a parent and I feel son benefited from being quite a distance from us allowing him to mature as a young adult.

Well, I don't know if any of that helps.  But it wouldn't like your son is a very smart young man and like so many student/athletes, he'll figure out what he wants and what he can do on his own.  It helps when a parent just simply makes themselves available as someone who can just listen and empathize.  

ILOVEBASEBALL,

Thanks for posting.  For those of us who have already been through it there isn't much to say or do at this point.  He is playing high level D1 baseball and getting excellent grades.  What you may want to tell him is that you are available anytime to talk about anything on his mind.  You probably have already said that but it reinforces that he is an adult, and getting the job done without your help....you are there to listen.  Sometimes there may be other things weighing on his mind and he needs somebody to talk to other than his buddies, teammates, coaches or girlfriend.  In our younger parenting days, my wife and tried to help our kids solve problems.  Now, that we're older and she is wiser;  it is more about being there for them, listening to what is on their mind and then discussing it.  We defer actions to them.  I hope that helps with what is on your mind as well.

2019Dad posted:

ilovebaseball posted:

I forgot to mention he's not on baseball scholarship, he's a walk-on.   

Maybe this is somewhat off topic, but as a starter in conference games, would it be reasonable for him to be put on scholarship next year? Seems like he's earned it.

It's not a question of whether he has earned it.

From the coach's perspective, it makes no sense to assign scholarship money to a walk-on, regardless of how well the player has performed, because it spends more money without improving his team. If he has some spare scholarship money, he'd rather spend it on a new recruit who can take that walk-on's spot in the lineup.

The walk-on is already at the school and paying for his education through some combination of loans, need based money, academic merit money and family resources that the family has already proven they are willing to live with. Plus, the NCAA's transfer rules significantly limit the player's opportunity to market himself elsewhere.  What could possibly motivate the coach to change the status quo? Fairness? Right.

Some coaches do try to reward walk ons who prove themselves, but it's more common for walk-ons to live with whatever financial arrangements they made when they matriculated.

I agree with Fenway's approach.  My son is at a very high academic D1 and it is very, very difficult.  Although my son did very well in high school, he falls into the group that utilized baseball to help gain admission to a school he otherwise would not likely have gained admission to.  Now that he's there, reality has set in and he's working hard to do the very best he can.  Missing class is just part of the reality of their world, though he's not missing at nearly the rate I'm sure some others are.  We just try to support him.  Both of us as his parents as well as him do not expect he will match his HS academic performance and we are open about that.  He puts enough pressure on himself without Mom and Dad adding to it.  Every couple of weeks I ask him "how he's doing" and he knows that  I'm not asking about school, baseball or friends (female or otherwise) - rather I'm just checking in to make sure his outlook and mental state is staying positive.  Knowing that his parents support him and recognize that what he's doing is hard has been enough to keep him going so far.

ilovebaseball posted:

I'm needing some advice here - *don't get me wrong, he's happy he's able to play at this (D1) level - he's starting conference games!  I don't think he (or we as parents) knew the amount of time he'd be traveling and away from his studies.  He told me last weekend - "we're not student athletes, we're athletes that attend 25% of our classes".  He's a business major and has a 4.0 right now (I know, we should't complain) - looking for feedback as to your experience and what we should say to him. Right now, we're saying "we support you in whatever decision you want to make - grades and graduation come first".

Is it at all possible he was just venting?  Raising our kids we have grown accustom to them telling us things because they want us to "fix" it but really sometimes they are just venting. 

Maybe you should ask him if he would change anything.  I'm sure you raised him to fight his own battles and fix his own problems, is he considering this an actual problem? That would be my first question.

Is your son utilizing the resources available to him?  Its been a long time but I was once a college athlete (late 80s - track).  Our school has academic advisors specifically for athletes.  This is pretty common in most schools.  We were required to meet with them for our first year.  After that it was left up to the athlete (unless they were failing classes) to decide if they wanted to continue on with regular meetings.  The advisors were great with helping us figure out class load around our athletic schedule.  Most schools have athletic - academic advisors.

I know I would normally carry about 18 to 20 credits during the fall semester as we did not start competing until the spring semester.  This allowed me to drop my class load down to 12 credits during the season.  Which I believe is the NCAA in season minimum.  During the fall semester I would often have classes 5 days a week and at night as well.  It sucks when others are able to setup their schedules to ensure they don't have Friday classes, classes before 10am or after 3pm but its one of the sacrifices you need to make when your an athlete. 

In addition my advisor would work with me to figure out which were the easier/less "homework" classes and professors so I could heavily weigh my schedule with those classes during the spring semester.  I know track is a little different animal and there is more down time, but it was not unusual for kids to study on the bus, at the field, or in the hotel room.  Yes it was fun to be in a new city and head out before curfew to check out the area but many kids would stay back at the hotel to study.

From a social life perspective, it can be difficult as well.  For an athlete it needs to be the lowest of your priorities.  This can be difficult on kids as part of the college experience is the social life.  During the season there is very little room for a social life.  Again another sacrifice that is made by many of the athletes.  We pretty much hung out either after returning from a Saturday meet at 1 or 2 in the morning or on Sunday afternoon.  And then your friends are your teammates as they are the only other ones on your schedule.

Finally folks with kids heading into college to play a sport need to realize and prepare the child for the fact they now are "working" two full time jobs.  Classes for 12 to 16 hours a week, homework for those classes will eat up another 12 to 16 hours, making it a full time job.  Practices of 3 hours a day, plus weight room and training room for rehab equals about 20 hours of work a week.  Once games start you are gone on the weekends from the school for about 10 to 15 hours at a minimum.  It can be overwhelming your frosh year but you do get used to it as you progress through your college career.

You are not alone!  My son is juggling baseball and being an Optometrist at the same time.  He spends lots of time on his laptop while on the bus.  He is in year 3 and still has a 3.7.  We constantly remind him to look at the big picture down the road.  Lots of work now, lots of benefits later.  

I'll admit....my son's grades were a concern when he decided to accept a scholarship at a D1 to play baseball.  He was a good student in HS...ended up with a 3.6 GPA and a 31 ACT.  His sister had graduated 2 years earlier with a 4.0 and a 32 ACT.  He could have done the 4.0 thing....and I don't think it would have taken him much effort.  In 4 years, I can count on one hand how many times he brought a book home.  He just got the stuff....and really didn't have to work hard to get the 3.6.

My concern was that when he got to college, his "I'll just get it" attitude would be a major issue....as college courses are much, much more difficult than HS. 

Luckily this hasn't been the case.  The freshmen were required to attend 8 hours/week of "study tables" the first semester.  He did it....and ended up with a 3.49 GPA while taking a couple math classes that really really challenged him. 

His GPA allowed him to get out of study tables the second semester....which I think is kind of crazy considering baseball starts and he'll be missing classes....but that's the school's rule....not mine.

It's been a little tougher....with juggling practices, travel and school.  Grades are about the same....but I'm hearing complaining about classes, etc that I didn't hear the first half of the year.  I assume that his time is just very limited now and it's making everything seem more clustered.

At this point, it appears he'll get thru the year about where he/we had hoped/expected.  The amount of time he's spent traveling has been much more than we had expected.  Really had never considered that a weekday road trip to a school 2-3 hours away would turn into a 12+ hour day from the time they left in the morning until they got back that night.  They got back from their spring trip at 4:30am on Monday morning and had class at 9....and have gotten back from road trips (weekday or Sunday) as late as 2:00am and are required to be at class the next morning.

So far so good, as far as I know he's still enjoying it...but I'm getting the feeling it's a little different than he initially expected.  It's definitely school & baseball.....not the other way around....lol

One thing that our son does that has helped this year is rooming on road trips with other players in his classes.  They work on classwork in the evening after curfew or sometimes on the bus ride back to school, and are ready for classes on Monday.

My son got a 2.7 the first semester. I told him if he lost the 50% academic part he was coming home where I could monitor his academics. He got a 3.5 the next semester. I told him that's the expectation bar from this day forward. He did it.  He was in the top 3% of his class in high school.

He was guilty of trying to do it all, except enough studying the first semester. I told him to not even consider a frat until soph year. Did he listen? No. He dove right in on top of everything else. My son has starred in his short life in falling out of trees and landing on his feet scoring a perfect ten.

Don't understand the "we'll support your decision no matter what."

Has he mentioned it's too much for him and he's considering not playing baseball anymore and just be a student?  

Yes, it's all new to Freshmen but surely he knew ahead of time what it means to be on a D1 team and travel during season. Is he worried he can't keep a 4.0? Some kids are overachievers and getting a 3.6,3.7 is not acceptable to them.  By the way, the classes only get harder as they advance in a major. 

Guess I'm trying to see what is the issue here, and why you thought you were getting beat up as u stated. You have a Freshman son starting at a D1 school with a 4.0 and you want to discuss how hard it is to play and be an athlete during Season. Sorry if this sounds harsh, but there are people on here whose sons are truly dealing with this who are struggling with grades/and or playing time so you won't get much sympathy from them. 

Your son is 18-19, let him see how his older teammates deal with the issue. Not sure if he brought up academics or you, but nothing you can say really that you haven't already. 

Maybe he feels he's not being challenged enough in his education coupled with no way of changing anything because of what it takes to stay in his spot on team.Is it possible ?

ILOVEBASEBALL,

Ahhhhh, now most of your sons as well as their  folks are realizing just how difficult (in any division), this game of baseball AND being a student really is.

This is a particularly rough time,  classes are getting more difficult. 4-5 games a week, traveling, getting in late, tired, frustrated, is very typical. And I agree he should not be missing so many classes. Your sons schedule should be built around his schedule.

In a little bit over a month, school will be over and it's just baseball. Things will be looking up. The first year is very tough, it gets easier and easier.

Just listen, that's your job. Understand that after your sons do 3,4,5 years of this, they will be able to do anything!

Not baseball, but I have a hard time believing all of those football and basketball players, with tattoo sleeves go to all of their classes.

Baseball33 posted:

Not baseball, but I have a hard time believing all of those football and basketball players, with tattoo sleeves go to all of their classes.

I'm having a hard time believing most of them were qualified to get into college.   They get degrees (if they graduate) that are worthless and are hoping they make the pro's. 

Lionbaseball, true. I wonder if they actually attend classes but have easy graders and work done for them or they have phantom classes like at UNC a couple of years ago. I remember even STANFORD, of all places, had an "easy class list" one of the classes were "North American dances part 2"

lionbaseball posted:

Baseball33 posted:

Not baseball, but I have a hard time believing all of those football and basketball players, with tattoo sleeves go to all of their classes.

I'm having a hard time believing most of them were qualified to get into college.   They get degrees (if they graduate) that are worthless and are hoping they make the pro's. 

Why don't you guys look up college graduation rates before you make generalizations.  

TPM posted:

lionbaseball posted:

Baseball33 posted:

Not baseball, but I have a hard time believing all of those football and basketball players, with tattoo sleeves go to all of their classes.

I'm having a hard time believing most of them were qualified to get into college.   They get degrees (if they graduate) that are worthless and are hoping they make the pro's. 

Why don't you guys look up college graduation rates before you make generalizations.  

... and toss the white robes. Since it's obvious the comments are aimed at black kids I'm going to tell you about one of my neighbors. 

Both parents are successful business people. Yes, his parents are married. Surprised? The kid graduated from a prestigious private school with about a 3.5. He went on to play for a perennially nationally ranked basketball program. He left college for the draft after junior year. He could have been a one and done as a freshman starter. He's played eight years in the NBA. He went to summer school to graduate from college after signing a multi million dollar first round contract.

Dont generalize. There's more of this than you realize. A kid like my neighbor doesn't make the news other than for scoring points. He never gets in trouble.

Good points RJM.  

I am still waiting for a report on graduation rates for football and basketball players.  Let's start with the top 2 programs in the country, Alabama and Clemson.

I know for a fact if you don't attend class, you won't play.  

Let me know when you know the answer.

FWIW, one of the reasons that baseball doesn't allow D1 to D1 transfer or any transfer into a baseball program is because they had the worst RPI of all sports.

This one is a little unique. There aren't any other NFL lineman spending their off season at MIT getting their PhD in Applied Mathematics. Ravens John Urschel is. He left Penn State for the NFL with A BA and MA in Mathematics. It did take him five years to get the two degrees. Dumb kid! The poor black kid grew up in a family where his father is a surgeon. His mother is an attorney.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/jo...fl-to-mit-1457028222

Patriots draft choice Malcolm Mitchell, WR, Georgia is already a published children's author.

http://www.redandblack.com/spo...66-1b714e3a1a4d.html

Theres a lot of good going on in college sports. Sometimes it's just a kid doing what he's supposed to be doing. More than you will ever know it's an athlete making a difference.

Ok, let's look at a study from UNC. CNN researched the reading levels of 183 UNC athletes who played football or basketball from 2004-2012. CNN found 60% read between a 4th and 8th grade level. Between 8-10% read below a third grade level. At the university of Oklahoma, a professor found that 10% of revenue sport athletes read below a 4th grade reading level. In 2014, Florida State University had just a 65% graduation rate among football players. In 2012, UCONN Basketball had a graduation rate of 11%. Also in 2012, UF Basketball and GT Basketball had 17 and 18% graduation rates. 

Top 5 football programs in academics in 2015:

5. Duke

4. Boston College (92.8% GR)

3. Rice (94% GR)

2. Northwestern (96% GR)

1. Norte Dame (96.2% GR)

Total record of those teams: 36-27.

You will probably find the athletic numbers you present closely resemble regular student population numbers. More than 50% of the students in the Cal State system are taking remedial courses. The graduation rate at UMass Boston is about 15%. The issue isn't athletics. The overall student population graduation rate is about 55%.

The issue is the shambles the American education system has become. It's also ignorant and racist to insinuate football and basketball are black and stupid.

Go Trump! Right?

To follow up with the graduation rates:

2013 SEC Football Graduation Rates:

1. Georgia- 82%, 8-4

2. Vanderbilt- 82%, 9-3

3. Florida- 77%, 4-8

4. LSU- 74%, 10-2

5. Missouri- 74%, 12-0

6. Texas A&M- 74%, 9-3

7. Alabama- 73%, 11-1

8. Auburn- 70%, 12-0

9. South Carolina- 65%, 11-1

10. Tennessee- 64%, 5-7

11. Kentucky- 62%, 2-10

12. Mississippi State- 59%, 7-5

13. Ole Miss- 55%, 8-4

14. Arkansas- 54% , 3-9

Note: In the bottom half you have an undefeated team and 2 11-1 teams. Auburn was in the 2013 national championship. 

Also your not helping your case when Cardale Jones tweets "CLASSES are POINTLESS. We came here to play FOOTBALL. Not attend CLASSES."

RJM, did I say anything about African American athletes?

Cardale Jones represents all athletes? You're taking the worst of college sports and trying to make a point it's the norm. You're very wrong. Sure there are some jugheads. There are some criminals. But they are a small percentage of college athletes. They're even a small percentage of football and basketball. Those are the two sports you dog whistled "blacks."

The solid majority of athletes who behave, go to class and do community service fly under the radar screen. I know several kids who played D1 football and basketball. They all graduated. They never made the news off the field or court. One of them went back to college in the off season after signing for millions. It never made the news. Graduating is boring news. But it makes him a hell of a role model. Same with John Urschel and Malcolm Mitchell. You would be surprised how much time college athletes spend at hospitals and schools.

I never said basketball and football were "black" sports. I was using football and basketball as an example of the academic problem in these two sports. If 60% of your kids are reading at a 4th-8th grade level how do you expect them to do college level reports and projects? Also, this is not an issue of race, you keep bringing up that I labeled basketball and football "black" sports. Many white people play basketball and football so this is not an issue of race as you keep bringing up.

Baseball33 posted:

Not baseball, but I have a hard time believing all of those football and basketball players, with tattoo sleeves go to all of their classes.

This is what you said.

Then you have a controversial poster who will just pick up on your comment and run with it.

Hope this works.

http://www.ncaa.org/about/reso...rate-continues-climb