Skip to main content

60 replies

Contacting College Coaches

P PGStaff10,000+ posts
This may not pertain to anyone here, but everytime I read about contacting or marketing ones son, it causes me to cringe. Makes me think of selling a used car. Will anyone buy it if they haven't seen and like it? On the other hand I guess someone has to know that the car is for sale. However, when it comes to baseball players and college, doesn't everyone know the player is obtainable by someone?

College coaches want what they see. They don't worry, too much, about what they haven't seen or don't know. They are busy recruiting what they want. Yet if they hear from a reliable source that there's a very talented player out there it will carry a lot of weight. These reliable sources would not be the player or parent in most cases.

First of all, something I figured out a long time ago. If you tell me how great you are, it's likely to go in one ear and out the other. However, if someone else is telling me how great you are, it will remain between the ears.

A true story

Because of what we do we are around college coaches a lot. Many we consider as close friends and they feel comfortable talking about players with us.

Once we were at an event with about 6 or 7 college coaches shooting the bull in the tower. A certain player (a good player) was brought up by one of the coaches (a well known ACC coach) He mentioned they were interested in the kid until they started getting contact from the parents. It wasn't so much the message they received, but this coach talked to another coach from the SEC and it turned him off.

The email he received from the players parents was exactly word for word the same letter sent to the SEC coach. Something to the affect that the college was his dream school and though he is being recruited by a large number of major programs, none would make him as happy as this college. If the offer to your school is close we will be very excited.

As this coach was telling us this story, most of the others laughed and said they recieved the exact same letter.

Now if the kid was a superstar rather than just another good player it might be different. Except those few that are superstar types don't have to sell anything.

None of the coaches tried to recruit the player above. All mentioned that the "mass" marketing attempt had turned them off. In a small way, the people involved became a laughing stock, though no on e outside that group knew anything about it.

I only bring this up as a reminder. Over marketing can backfire and honesty is important to lots of people.

On another note, even we get information about players and lots of videos. Some of this comes in such a large package that the postage must cost an arm and a leg. When the information gets past 100 pages and the video is an hour long, you have to wonder why. Not to sound rude, but why would anyone care if a 17 year old was an ice skating champion when he was 9 years old? Or that he mows the yard every week.

Maybe I've been hardened over the years, but it seems like the most important thing is to get in front of them and let them see you and decide how much they want you. Then if it still requires a bunch of marketing, you got in front of the wrong people.

I hate it when people refer to us as a recruiting service. I'm not in favor of recruiting services. I want the truth, not a recommendation that someone paid for. Yes, people pay us, and often they get recruited... But it is based on their ability not because they bought a recruiting package. In a way I would consider recruiting services as "over" marketing. I do understand that some are better than others.

I alway get a kick out of someone being responsible for $100,000,000 (or whatever) in scholarships. I would have no idea of the number of dollars in scholarship money players who did our stuff got. I could say $100 Billion dollars and maybe someone might believe it. Truth is, not sure I could tell you exactly how much any player receives in scholarship money. Seems like we don't really need to know that. Scholarship money is based on the players talent and academic ability... Recruiting services and people like us have nothing to do with that.

BTW, I'm referring to what would be described as "over" marketing here. Not to be confused with other types of communication.

Just some thoughts that probably won't help anyone, but controversial enough that maybe it will create some good discussion.
Last edited {1}
Original Post

Replies sorted oldest to newest

EG Eric G100+ posts
PG, maybe a remedy would be for PG to host a weeklong event in the summer and another one in the winter where you invite every possible college and host several hundred of the top players and conduct your typical showcase event itinerary.

Centralize it in the middle od the US (Iowa, LOL) so everyone can congregate together and have a huge scoutfest!
Blue10Blue10500+ posts
I think your story illustrates how important it is that the KID is the one in charge of contacting coaches. IMHO parents should limit themselves to proofreading, giving reminders to send info in a timely manner, etc...our HS athletic director is a HUGE proponent of having the athlete take ownership of his own "career." I have definitely met some scarily over-involved parents in the stands who I can picture doing what you have described.
S SwampboyHSBBWeb Administrator
PG Staff,

I think you're probably right. As parents, we really, really want to believe that our effort, savvy, and initiative will make the difference in the opportunities our sons get, but our ability to influence the outcome diminishes once we write the check to a competent travel coach.

My son and I tried some limited emails to schools he was interested in. Got some polite responses, a couple looks, and some free tickets to ball games, but nothing real came of it.

Eventually my son did receive a nice assortment of offers. In every single case, the offering school initiated the contact, and none of the offers came from the schools he initially thought he'd be interested in.

When the school he ended up committing to called our house, it was completely out of the blue. The coach said he had seen my son twice, but we had never seen him in the stands and had no idea he might be interested. Ten minutes before the call, we had never given a thought to that school. A week later we were on campus, mouths hanging open as we toured the amazing facilities and hung on every word of the presentation. A week later he committed. So I ask you, who's the better marketer, the coach or the dad? Answer: the guy who does it for a living.

When coaches decide they are ready, they move. I'm not sure parents can do much to motivate them to move or to move more quickly. Parents like to think we're helping, but the coaches call the shots--as they probably should.
S smalltownmom100+ posts
Thanks for the info. We have been getting calls and e-mails from a referral service. When I told them we think we have a handle on what to do, through this website, PG showcases, and good advice from others who have gone through the process, they have been basically rude, telling us they do this for a living(they are professionals) and all the major programs use their sevice. Our son is a 2013 and by the timelines he is in good shape. I hate the pressure they can put on, and the guilt I have been feeling that perhaps I neeed to go that route. I feel confirmation that this is the right path to take.

One more thing. This summer son went to a tryout for a well respected program. It was heavily attended, by potential players as well as colleges. While players were warming up and running 60's, the college coaches held a very good informational meeting as well as question/ answer session for parents. I only wish the kids had heard it as well, as they defined their responsibilities in the process. Possibly this is done and I haven't seen it, but Q/A sessions and college scouting info.directed at the players might be a neat addition prior to some of the big showcases. As son is new to process, possibly this is done and we are just not aware.
CADadCADad5,000+ posts
Players have good, average and bad days. If you've oversold your player and he's seen on an average or bad day that could result in him being crossed off the list prematurely.

I relate it to telling someone how fast your pitcher throws. Let's say you tell a coach your kid throws 89 mph. He touches 89 every now and then on a JUGS. A coach comes to see him and he's throwing 82-84 on a Stalker. That's probably an average or even good day. What's the coach going to think? "Oh well, just subtract 7 mph from what the parent says."

We'd all hope the coach would be looking at arm action, pitchability, etc. and that the pitcher would get a fair evaluation but it's human nature to not like getting bad information.

True story time. A scout saw my son throw on an off day from a velocity standpoint. He probably topped out at 83 and worked less although the movement was pretty good. 2 days later he's at a camp and we see the same scout talking to a JC coach. The JC coach comes over and tells my son he'll be watching him. He throws 85-87 at the camp. The coach who was probably expecting much less is quite interested and that's where he ends up that season.
Last edited by CADad
EG Eric G100+ posts
PG, I was alluding to nixing the 20+ other showcases you already hold across the land and doing a couple huge ones, that way everyone can plan accordingly, raise the cost a little because maybe not as many kids overall will attend so you can make up for the income potential loss. Simplify your business and makes it easlier on college scouts to plan. That is what I was alluding to.
B bbdad200710+ posts
quote:
College coaches want what they see.


So then, shouldn't a player go to the camps offered at colleges he is interested in versus a PG showcase that does not list attending coaches? I understand the part about a PG rating and video footage... But if coaches want what they see - don't they see more in person then some video link they may not care about? Not taking a shot at PG since I am considering signing up for an event. Just agreeing with your post and thinking that the best chance to make a connection with a coach is to have him see you play as much as possible - in person. Showcases, tournaments and camps can all be a **** shoot as well. Good thread BTW... My question is what is the best way to draw that desired attention of college coaches? If you are a pitcher, go to a PG event or showcase, light up the radar gun with 90+ FBs then that attention will come. But what about all those position players that are playing tournaments every weekend on very good travel teams? I know the Senior Fall Classic is a good event to attend. What others are good?
Last edited by bbdad2007
S SR4210+ posts
I am father of a 2012 who is going through the recruiting process. I would second that college coaches do want to communicate with kids and their coaches and not the parents. Obviously during the recruiting visits, us parents attend and that is our chance to ask our questions.

I also would absolutely agree that the more that a coach can see the athlete play the more comfortable they are recruiting him. So far we have used a mixture of playing for a high profile summer team, active summer coach, active high school coach, high profile PG tournaments and college camps.
CollegeParentNoMoreCollegeParentNoMore1,000+ posts
quote:
So then, shouldn't a player go to the camps offered at colleges he is interested in versus a PG showcase that does not list attending coaches?

The key is finding a coach that is interested in your son. I would not attend a college camp unless the coaches have somehow expressed particular interest in advance. At one camp my son went to on his own, he was completely ignored by the HC except for the second day when the coach tried to sell him a leftover catcher's glove. It was that coaches loss, except for the $210 he got out of me! Although my son did figure out he wouldn't be going to his first choice UC.

Stanford camp is exempted from this general statement!
Last edited by CollegeParentNoMore
CollegeParentNoMoreCollegeParentNoMore1,000+ posts
I think you are back to your PG showcases, particular tournaments etc,..... unless your son throws strikes at 90+. You could get lucky with a fall scout team or a connie mack team in my area. Seems like the high end talent is spread over a lot more teams these days then just 5 years ago making it less worthwhile for a scout or coach to attend a tournament or local game.
Last edited by CollegeParentNoMore
ET Everybody throws 90+ now...10+ posts
My son is very near signing with his school of choice and he has been recruited/offered by about a dozen schools...ranging from JUCO, NAIA, high DII and low DI. Most of the contacts were originated by his HS coach, who, incidentally has many contacts with a history of about 2 dozen players in the last few years from his program moving on to the next level anywhere from JUCO to MLB draft. He is a mover/shaker and gets it done and gets the exposure his players deserve. He has attained this credibility by not overselling a JUCO talent to a DI school and not all seniors that play for him get exposure to colleges if their skill set doesn't warrant it. Long story short, when he calls a coach and says he has a kid they might be interested in, they listen because of his past credibility. When he sat down with my son and I to discuss potential schools he was interested in, there was one program I told him not to bother with because I would handle it. They are a small time JUCO in my hometown an hour away from where we live now. Many close family members and I attended school there before they had a baseball team. They are a new program that my nephew played for their first year and I felt confident I could get my boy noticed. My brother's niece is the HC for girls softball for crying out loud, anyway, I called him, left messages, emails, facebook contacts....nothing. Now my son is over 6' 190lbs and throws 90 on a stalker and was getting interest from a lot of schools. This particular coach never responded to my attempts of contact. It wasn't until our HS coach emailed a video to 15 schools, including his, and he called the next day. He wasn't even aware he was calling about the same kid I had left emails and messages about. So, when they tell you that all parent videos and contact is never viewed...BELIEVE THEM.
P PGStaff10,000+ posts
quote:
PG Staff
My son has played in several scouting events and I make video's of every one, so would you say that sending a link to the video and giving your kids up coming game schedule is over marketing?


Jaxx, I would not consider that over marketing. Just don't expect great results.

I do believe that there are people who have so much credibility that colleges pay attention. Some of these people who have earned this respect are high school coaches.

quote:
So then, shouldn't a player go to the camps offered at colleges he is interested in versus a PG showcase that does not list attending coaches? I understand the part about a PG rating and video footage... But if coaches want what they see - don't they see more in person then some video link they may not care about? Not taking a shot at PG since I am considering signing up for an event. Just agreeing with your post and thinking that the best chance to make a connection with a coach is to have him see you play as much as possible - in person. Showcases, tournaments and camps can all be a **** shoot as well. Good thread BTW... My question is what is the best way to draw that desired attention of college coaches? If you are a pitcher, go to a PG event or showcase, light up the radar gun with 90+ FBs then that attention will come. But what about all those position players that are playing tournaments every weekend on very good travel teams? I know the Senior Fall Classic is a good event to attend. What others are good?


Players can go where ever they want. Nothing wrong with attending camps at colleges they are interested in. Maybe they might create some real interest and the college will want to see them perform against good competition.

Position players standout just like pitchers IMO.

Regarding another question.... Long ago we decided it was not productive to list all colleges that attend an event. The college coaches are there to see players and determine if they are interested in certain players. They are not there to advertise and then be contacted by everyone in attendance. They like it better when they decide who to contact.

Some people, not just us, have earned a lot of respect based on past results. So if we are extremely impressed by a pitcher or a player, this will create interest. That interest may or may not amount to a positive result. In the end, we don't make the decision, we just give our opinion. Most baseball people respect that opinion. It's an opinion from people who have a proven track record.

Anyway, I didn't attend for this thread to be about PG. We are not the solution in every case. There are other ways to get decision makers interested. To completely ignore every opportunity is unlikely to work well. My suggestion is... Just do something so people can see you and know you exist. Marketing alone won't get the desired results in most cases.

quote:
PG, I was alluding to nixing the 20+ other showcases you already hold across the land and doing a couple huge ones, that way everyone can plan accordingly, raise the cost a little because maybe not as many kids overall will attend so you can make up for the income potential loss. Simplify your business and makes it easlier on college scouts to plan. That is what I was alluding to.

Eric,

Good points, but we don't have a problem with college coaches knowing what we do or plan. Maybe our biggest problem involves giving out too much information to those who don't actually attend. But to be honest, we are already running the biggest scouting and recruiting events in all of baseball. One of them will take place next week in Jupiter, Florida. There is no event in baseball that will have more college coaches or MLB scouts in attendance. It's a well known fact!

But it (any PG event) is not a must event to attend, there is no such "must" event. Players just need to be seen and there are many ways to accomplish that including going to college camps. There are Major League players that have never been to a PG event. But there are not many who we didn't know about when they were younger. Players need to be seen by decision makers. You can't sell people on a player that hasn't been seen unless those people are just interested in reaching a quota of students. That doesn't happen at scholarship schools. They don't pick players based on marketing efforts.
Last edited by PGStaff
VectorVector1,000+ posts
I find this subject very interesting.

On the one hand I have no doubt that in a perfect world many coaches would like to eliminate parents from the equation as much as possible.
By the same token parents are financially responsible for the kids in many cases, and want to help them choose a school wisely. The trouble is that kids are under more pressure these days than in my time.
Academic standards are much higher, the price of a out of state or private college education is astronomical, and the need to promote yourself is like nothing anyone has ever seen from just a decade or so ago.
Many kids have so little time between studies, sports, chores, extra curricular activities(i.e. community service) that they barely have time to have fun and be kids.
So to expect that most will have the time or wherewithal to be able to write letters/emails and promote themselves to different colleges is asking a lot. Many are not that mature and do not know how to comfortably interact with coaches who are afterall adults.
So naturally if self promotion is the way to get noticed and eventually recruited, it may very well fall on the parents to shoulder that burden.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I would think college coaches would know and understand that.
P PGStaff10,000+ posts
quote:
So naturally if self promotion is the way to get noticed and eventually recruited, it may very well fall on the parents to shoulder that burden

Vector,

It is my opinion that is not the way to get noticed or recruited. Self promotion is basically worthless to most recruiters. They react to what they see and think, not by what the player and the parents might offer.
Last edited by PGStaff
F FormerObserver1,000+ posts
quote:
On the one hand I have no doubt that in a perfect world many coaches would like to eliminate parents from the equation as much as possible.


Nawp, they'll bring you into the recruiting process at the appropriate time.

quote:
and the need to promote yourself is like nothing anyone has ever seen from just a decade or so ago.


Nawp, but the juco route, always a strong route, is probably getting stronger.

Play summer baseball, maybe on a travel team, attend a few showcases, maybe one or two per year, play high school baseball

Try to attend a college game where your son would like to play.

Get there early, or stay after the game, and, meet a player or a coach if you can.

Attend a showcase at a school where your son would like to play. Meet other players and coaches.

Your son might be anxious on the first call for about two minutes.

The coaches know how to work with the players. They will put them at ease.

quote:
So naturally if self promotion is the way to get noticed and eventually recruited, it may very well fall on the parents to shoulder that burden.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I would think college coaches would know and understand that.



The coaches are looking for self-promotion....on the field......

Baseball is a small, small world and news travels fast.

In my opinion, the greatest source of information for recruiting coaches is from previous players that have become coaches (especially juco coaches), former players, professional scouts, summer coaches, and high school coaches.

Perfect Game, or other showcases, brings them all together in one place.

They are not looking for 10,000 players.

Most 'recruit' 10-15 per year.

Have your son pick six schools that he has an interest.

Find schools in your geographic area. Most college baseball rosters are players within the schools geographic region.

Florida is probably a region by itself.Maybe Alabama and Georgia.

Have him learn who the coaches are, look at the rosters, and get familiar with the programs.

Sometimes, if a coach does not need your son's position, he might make a referral directly to you, or to another coach, and that coach might call you.

You might have one or two kids to get recruited.

Most college baseball coaches have recruited hundreds of players.

If they are interested in your son playing for their school, they will explain everything, and answer all the questions, even to mama.

All you really have to do is listen, and say, yes, or no when asked a question.

The coaches are seeking talent, and, if your son has the talent they are seeking, they want to sell you on their school, facilities, coaching staff, MLB placement record, academic success, travel style, the co-ed quality, the dorm quality, the meal quality, the per diem, the travel schedule, where you will fit into the roster, their competition, the training room, the trainers, the number of uniforms, the attendance, school support, football program, tutoring, and their chances of winning their conference and making the College World Series.

The jucos can offer 24(I think, but it is more than the 11.7 at Bigtime U).

If Bigtime U offers you 50%, I don't suggest countering back at 60% (unless you have David Price potential, or hit like Buster Posey). That's only about $2,500 bucks difference, and, there is another kid out there who will take the 50%.

Not many (any) full rides at Bigtime U, so if money is an issue, think about the full ride at juco.
Last edited by FormerObserver
VectorVector1,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by PGStaff:
quote:
So naturally if self promotion is the way to get noticed and eventually recruited, it may very well fall on the parents to shoulder that burden

Vector,

It is my opinion that is not the way to get noticed or recruited. Self promotion is basically worthless to most recruiters. They react to what they see and think, not by what the player and the parents might offer.


When I say self promotion I do not mean pushy parents swearing their kid is the next Nolan or Jeter.
I am speaking about parents following the advice I've been receiving about creating a video highlight DVD and sending it to select schools my son has an interest in. That combined with a few emails, letting them know which showcases and tournaments they will be in seems to be what everyone says needs to be done this day and age.
Do you think that comes across as wrong or shameless self promotion?
EG Eric G100+ posts
Formerobserver, Awesome post!

Vector, I think you are on the right track. The one thing that I have heard that is resounding is that only a select few kids DO NOT have to sell / market themselves. The ones that throw 92 or run 6.4 for example, and I truly believe this. Other than that, you do need to market your players and try to send them to as many camps etc as possible that one can afford. I hate when I hear that all the expenses can be offset once your kid gets a scholarship, that is ridiculous to believe. My son wants to play D1 baseball and I will assist him in any way I can to get there within reason. He undestands he needs to do the hard work on the field and weightroom and occasionally get involved when it comes to calling a coach or responding to emails/letters/questionnaires.
It just truly is unfortunate that baseball as we know it (the parents who have been thru the summers etc) gets a short end of the stick when it does come to scholarship monies available.
Enough from me.
TRhitTRhit10,000+ posts
My guys made it to college baseball, three of them, prior to advent of major tournaments and showcases.

I consider myself a pretty good marketer--prior tp my boys getting into baseball I fished the Pro Bass Circuit in the Northeast and was fully sponsored as well as having articles in major Bass Fishing Magazines--I marketed myself

I marketed my last son and stepson well and my son ended up at NMSU and my stepson at Methodist.

The way the landscape is today, with all the events that coaches attend you , as a parent, do not have to market the player like we had to back in the early to mid 90's and before.

Todays "entitlement factor" is what parents think they need to continue with college coaches--Not So---think how many similar packages the college coaches get every day---it is mind boggling, to say the least. And the majority of the packages have a resume for the player that goes back to "T BAll".

If the player attends enough events he will be seen --then it is up to some coach or coaches to like to what see --- as a coach of travel teamI tell my kids that my job is to open the door and get you on stage---if the coaches don't like how you perform I cannot make them like you---

The key is to be seen and have good performances--then your phone will ring !
jemazjemaz1,000+ posts
I think this is one of the toughest of issues of all. So much depends on a player's talent, but also geography. Keep in mind, too, that camps, showcases, games, etc... are all elimination events probably more than anything.

Flexibility and desire and maybe a little bullheadedness can go a long way, but must be applied in the right doses, at the right time and with the right tone.

And sometimes baseball ends at the end of high school for all the right reasons.
CADadCADad5,000+ posts
FO,
Just nitpicking here, but depending on your definition of recruit, coaches "recruit" 100s of players each year to get down to 10 or so. I said hi to a head coach at a multi school camp during the summer when my son was a rising senior and despite our having a fairly unique last name he didn't have a clue. He was honest and said something on the order of "We recruit 100's of kids at this point and I don't remember their names." On the other hand, one of his assistants was there to watch my son's game at the camp.

BTW, he didn't perform that well the one inning the assistant had a gun on him and we never heard from him again. However, he threw several innings in that game and the program of the coach of the opposing team ended up giving him a call.

So I'll ditto what TR said, they've got to perform.
Last edited by CADad
CPLZCPLZ1,000+ posts
After Juniors Jr. year, we began "marketing". Made a website with links to video, stats, schedule. Mailed a DVD (less than 5 min) along with stats.

The most interest we received from that was a few questionnaires.

In Sept of his senior year, we flew out of town for what I found out later was kind of a podunk showcase, run by a guy with moderate cred. Junior got named top prospect at this showcase. Within a week of the promoter mailing out the showcase results to a ton of schools, Junior was inundated with everything from questionnaires to calls. A week after that a Pirates scout saw him in a fall ball game, called a D1 coach and the coach offered Junior over the phone, sight unseen. When Jr. pitched in Jupiter, having never been to a PG event before, there were dozens of colleges scouting him.

My point only validates what PG and others have said...when it comes from an independent source, it's much more likely to be heard.
Last edited by CPLZ
justbaseballjustbaseball10,000+ posts
PG - Really great topic!

I remember when our older son was beginning to look like he might play college ball. I didn't know about this site at that time, but I did know a couple of people who had either coached or played college ball and were pretty familiar with the recruiting process...so I sat down with them and asked how to go about all of this.

Although, I don't think I'm much of a 'marketer,' (just a geeky engineer)...I was thinking I've gotta do 'marketing' to get the word out on our son.

The first somewhat 'jolting' thing they all told me was that I had to get my son in front of the coaches so that they could see him play (pitch). They told me that a coach isn't (likely) to want to recruit a kid he's never seen play.

Seems rather obvious - huh? Well, it was after it was said to me...but before it was said to me all I was thinking was mailing and calling and 'marketing' (UGH!). And I'd never heard of a 'showcase?!' Eek

Oh, they all also suggested sending a brief letter (written by my son) to the 10 or so colleges he was most interested in (and he did), but they could not stress enough getting him on a field in front of those coaches.

...which is exactly what PGStaff is saying.

There are all kinds of ways to do this...showcases, respected travel teams in well-attended events...and in our younger son's case, just the HS he plays for was all he really needed (up to 30 scouts at some games and one of those 'trusted' HS coaches).

But it is absolutely true...once our older son (and younger one too) were "seen" by the coaches they were targeting, the +/- meter (NOTE: I said "+" and "-," both were results) went ding, ding, ding! And + or - is all you're really looking for...I always felt once I knew which one it was at a given level or school I'd know what to do with it.

So in the end, we didn't do a whole lot of 'active' contacting other than those handful of letters with the older son...we just got the two boys out there for coaches to see and let the chips fall where they did.
Last edited by justbaseball
VectorVector1,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by FormerObserver:

Play summer baseball, maybe on a travel team, attend a few showcases, maybe one or two per year, play high school baseball


First thanks for the thoughtful reply. One of my mistakes was assuming I did not need to promote him last year during what I now have heard was his critical junior year. The Fall team he played for only played local schools and the stands were empty most of the time. So this year we went to a few showcases and he has just started to get some interest in the last few months. However we will be attending PG in a week along with a couple other events, so hopefully that will be enough.

quote:
Originally posted by FormerObserver:
Your son might be anxious on the first call for about two minutes.

The coaches know how to work with the players. They will put them at ease.


While I'm sure some coaches are great interacting with new kids in the recruitment process, I'm also sure others are not. I'm met both types having nothing to do with my son.
They are after all human and bring both +'s and -'s to the table personality wise. My son is immature(both physically and social skills wise) for his age, and although he is not shy, he goes into his respectful mode when speaking with adults(a good thing). However he is not very comfortable the first time interacting with adults trying to get to know him.

quote:
Originally posted by FormerObserver:
The coaches are seeking talent, and, if your son has the talent they are seeking, they want to sell you on their school,


My son has talent, but how much is the question. He has more control than many of the flame throwers and has hit 88 at a showcase on a Stalker. His change is filthy and his best pitch. I'd say his curve is good for HS, but needs improvement for the next level. So with all that he still might not be D1 material unless a coach can see him, and project where he will be in a couple of years.
I only see my role as that of getting the coaches to go see him and let them decide if he is a fit for their program. If I left that up to my son at this stage, I doubt it would get done. I also know other parents of talented kids facing the same thing. Since they are not studs, they fly under the radar. Yet several parents who "promoted" their sons who are just average to good, eventually got signed. A senior who was 4th in the rotation last year behind my son and two seniors was signed to a mid to low D1. Granted he is 6'4" 200lbs, so he is "projectible", but his performance and pitch repertoire did not light up the scoreboard. The two other seniors ahead of him who's parents did little to nothing, are still trying to find a spot (one is now a "preferred walk on"), the other is still looking.
I guess my point/rant/whatever you may call it comes from frustration. On the one hand we did little to nothing and everyone said we should have done XYZ. Now that I am doing that, some knowledgeable people in this thread are saying parents should leave it to the kids. Needless to say it is perplexing.
P PGStaff10,000+ posts
Vector,

Please remember that these are just my opinions and I have been wrong about so many things. People need to do what they feel is best for their son.

Whether we call it marketing or something else, there are usually ways to get the job done. In the end, it will no longer be about marketing, everything will be based on what happens on the field and in the classroom.

My suggestion regarding marketing… Figure out how to get son noticed… everything is based on him being seen. Maybe that should be the marketing plan.

We probably know your son, it sounds like he’s pretty good and will be at Jupiter next week. Maybe I will see you there. If you want, PM his name, Best of luck.

BTW, I love the Roosevelt quote.
shortnquickshortnquick500+ posts
Long time reader and first time poster.

PG this is a great topic but it could lead some parents and players the wrong way if the advice is taken to the extreme. I never planned on posting even though I have read this site for a long time.

So many parents look to this site for advice because they have no clue on how to help their son or advise their son on how to be recruited. The danger in some of the posts is that a parent may now see that they should not contact a coach expressing interest in the school. Or they may now see it as wrong to send a video. I believe you have said and would continue to state that they should do these things but just don't soley rely on this or over do it.

From my experience in getting through the recruiting process contacting the coach, sending a video, sending a PG ranking and evaluation has all helped create interest. Just to make contact to say how great your son is without a short credible resume will not get you far. Done the correct way in my experience does and did help. I think it definetly helps those players who are not the studs or the top D-I players. Every or just about every top D-1 coach knows them already, they don't have to "sell" themselves, as much.

PG you are correct in the most important aspect of this topic. Parents have to get their sons seen: PG showcases, college camps, top tournaments.

However parents and players should not think that it is wrong to contact coaches expressing interest and intoducing themselves.
M Momof1B100+ posts
It is hard for most kids to contact a coach of a school they are interested in. But, it is true that the coaches or recruiters have talked with hundreds of kids and know the questions to ask to strike up conversations with your son.
After speaking with coaches and MLB scouts, just listening to my son on the phone now, I am in awe. Smile
He "really can carry a conversation", talk to a coach about the school, what his future might hold, options, grades..etc...He talked with a JUCO coach the other night about coming to visit, and he really handled it well about calling him back in a few days, he was interested and needed to look at his schedule and see when he could make the trip.

As a parent, you will be amazed at how well they handle themselves, even thou it is very scary and ackward for them, the coaches do know how to ask the right questions and hopefully you don't hear ah ha, ah ha, yep, ah ha, yes sir, yep, coming from your son's mouth...(it's ok if you do, it gets better with each call.)

The player needs to get in front of the coaches, play hard, and a youtube video is a good link, schedules emailed to coaches and get to a PG showcase/tournament.
ClevelandDadClevelandDadHSBBWeb Administrator
quote:
Originally posted by shortnquick:
Long time reader and first time poster.

PG this is a great topic but it could lead some parents and players the wrong way if the advice is taken to the extreme. I never planned on posting even though I have read this site for a long time.

So many parents look to this site for advice because they have no clue on how to help their son or advise their son on how to be recruited. The danger in some of the posts is that a parent may now see that they should not contact a coach expressing interest in the school. Or they may now see it as wrong to send a video. I believe you have said and would continue to state that they should do these things but just don't soley rely on this or over do it.

From my experience in getting through the recruiting process contacting the coach, sending a video, sending a PG ranking and evaluation has all helped create interest. Just to make contact to say how great your son is without a short credible resume will not get you far. Done the correct way in my experience does and did help. I think it definetly helps those players who are not the studs or the top D-I players. Every or just about every top D-1 coach knows them already, they don't have to "sell" themselves, as much.

PG you are correct in the most important aspect of this topic. Parents have to get their sons seen: PG showcases, college camps, top tournaments.

However parents and players should not think that it is wrong to contact coaches expressing interest and intoducing themselves.

Very nice post and welcome to the hsbbweb!

I think there are several types of marketing.

In one example, the parent attempts to create a buzz by contacting coaches or other electronic communications.

In another example, the parent is the facilitator. They see to it that their kids are "seen" by baseball decision-makers. They let their kids talent do most of the talking but by no means are they a passive participant.

I am not sure I agree with the following observation by Vector that people are advocating parental disinvolvement in this thread i.e., leave it to the kids. I think people are saying "leave it to the kids talent" (suitably on display before as many coaches possible) to do the marketing.
quote:
I guess my point/rant/whatever you may call it comes from frustration. On the one hand we did little to nothing and everyone said we should have done XYZ. Now that I am doing that, some knowledgeable people in this thread are saying parents should leave it to the kids. Needless to say it is perplexing.
fillsfanfillsfan1,000+ posts
There may some "does and don'ts" in the recruiting process I don't think there is an absolute wrong way or right way to handle things. Each family and player situation is different and may need different ideas, tactics or actions to attain their goals.

IMO what the coaches definitely don't want are constant calls and bragging about a player from a parent. Like a lot of things in life moderation is the key.

Like others have said, what they all need is to be seen as often as possible.
bsbl247bsbl2471,000+ posts
Bsbl Jr. has sent out emails to coaches/colleges on three different occasions this summer/fall. He sent out an introductory letter/email prior to attending the WWBA Tourney in Georgia, another prior the PG Nationals in September, and last night regarding the upcoming Arizona Senior Fall Classic. The majority of the emails have gone to the same group of schools, and the majority have communicated in one way or another. The content of the emails sent were basic, a very small paragraph, and a link to his PG profile was included. A few coaches that have been in weekly contact received a personal text message from my son. It's hard to determine what is the Right or Wrong way of "Marketing/Helping" your son? Perhaps we (our family) should solicit additional help from his HS or Travel coaches? Their information was included in the initial contact email that was sent out to the schools my son is interested in.

I suggested that my son broaden his interest and notify other schools (from D1-D3) that he'll be in Arizona. His answer last night was simply, "Dad...I have worked very hard, I'm not giving up playing at XYZ School, I know I can play at that level. Besides, I have a month to prove myself, and even then it's not too late!" I admire his dedication and confidence, however, I did talk him into contacting additional schools in the next couple of weeks.
bsbl247bsbl2471,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by TRhit:
One key thing to remember: as parents of teenage players we tend to underestimate the maturity of the boy and how he will handle things


True. I was pleasantly surprised listening to my son talk to coaches on the phone, he actually does a very good job...what's funny, is his voice tends to get a little deeper while he's talking with the coaches.
P Pedropere100+ posts
The title of the thread probably should have read "overplaying your hand", as it relates to the coaches sharing the email asking them to bid for the kid's services.

It doesn't seem to me that there is anything wrong with sending similar letters to various schools......they just have to be honestly written. And you can't say you have an offer if you don't. All these guys know each other. Frankly, I'd be especially careful about doing that if I did did have an offer...it might get back to the coach that you were trying to shop it, and it could go up in smoke.
F FormerObserver1,000+ posts
quote:
"Dad...I have worked very hard, I'm not giving up playing at XYZ School, I know I can play at that level.


Check the rosters and read the articles about signing players.

The school may already have players for your position, or there might be a returning sophomore All-American you would have to compete against.

Timing, injuries, and the draft all have an impact.
S standup10+ posts
First let me say I think that perfect game provides the best opportunity for players to be seen and your contributions and insights in this forum are much appreciated. That said, I think that a kid or his parents that repeat their son's desire to play for several top colleges as being a first choice have absolutely nothing to be ashamed of. If you dated several beautiful women and told them similar things and it turned out they by chance got together and discussed it the answer might be to find several more that you have better chemistry with and not come to the mistaken conclusion that u should have handled it differently. The coach you want to be with surely knows he's not the only one and is competitive enough not to let a little competition turn him off. Better to know now in my opinion.
TPMTPMHSBaseballweb Member since 2003
shortnquick,
Great post and welcome.

I don't think that PG said not to contact coaches, his statement being seen is most important is 100% correct. I think that we all understand that there are times when that may be difficult, so I do not see anything wrong with sending out precise, down to the point material for the coach to review. Intro letter and a brief bio, too much info turns them off (as PG had indicated).

Here's a scenerio. Is this appropriate?

Player sends out DVD and info to college recruiting coach.
Program replies by sending questionaire, asking for schedule, also invites player to camp. Parent calls, asks coach did you like what you saw in the video, is it important for him to show up at your camp, are you really interested or not, by the way, that schedule, let us know when you are planning to be there so we can make sure he's pitching that day, we'll be there to to meet you as well. And FWIW, he just pitched a gem last weekend. Incredible, his two seamer had so much movement that day it was amazing (yes these conversations take place often). My son's dream has always been to attend your program, He'd give anything to be a (you insert the mascot).

I think the word "marketing" may be misunderstood by it's use in this particular topic. The parent who has taken the time to get their son seen by way of showcases, and tournaments, perhaps camps (or unofficial visits) where those of importance are watching, have, "marketed" their player, without the paperwork. They have done it through a different contact method, rather than by DVD, phone calls, etc. I htink the point aobut the postage PG made was if yuo sent a package out like that to everyone, why not just spend a bit more and attend the right showcase or tourney where you will be seen and perhaps (most importantly) evaluated or rated properly.
Sending out materials and then waiting in your own little corner of the local ballpark for a coach to show up isn't going to work these days.

Great post by FO. Parents, let your players do the talking, the coaches will contact YOU when they want to speak with YOU. If your son's are shy, this is a good time for them to learn how to talk to others, and true, don't worry, coaches know what to say and expect them to be nervous.

Don't ever make excuses that your son's didn't have time to do some of the work that they should do in the recruiting process, that includes, for them to do some homework on programs they may be interested in, because they will be the ones attending not you. Let them fill out the questionares sent by coaches, most cover much of the same questions, do a few with him and then make copies so they can fill them out, and don't worry about having too much to do right now, in a short year, they will be multi tasking bigtime, let them learn it now and how to manage their time. Handing you a list of schools he's high on isn't going to work either, them programs contacted should be that of the player's talent ability. And don't go on the premise he is projectible, that is for the coach to decide.

My son's travel coach, who ran a program for over 10 years getting kids seen and scholarships was very helpful in the process, it cost us plenty to join the team, but what he learned from him was invaluable and who saw him play was as well, resulting in nice exposure and nice offers. Who your son plays for his senior summer is VERY important in the process.
TPMTPMHSBaseballweb Member since 2003
quote:
Originally posted by Baseballdad1228:
I think that being honest with coaches is always the best way to go. It's better to tell College A and College B that they're among the top choices than to tell both they are No. 1. Then when a group, by chance, gets together, you never look bad.


Be honest, if a coach really wants you he doesn't care what your #1 school is.
Last edited by TPM
ET Everybody throws 90+ now...10+ posts
When you do get noticed and arrive at the campus for a visit and meet with the coaches, here's a few tips.
1) Drive the rattiest broke down looking fishing truck you own or can borrow.
2) Parent wears work clothes and son wears Wal Mart shoes/shorts
3) If dad is 6'3" 225 lbs, he attends with son, if not send him with the hot mom.
4) Do your homework on the school. Go online and figure out the cost of attendance, majors offered, and their roster information. Know their conference and opponents. If their rivalry has offered mention it.
5) Don't be pushy and arrogant, but ask pertinent questions about academics first, baseball and finances later.
6) They have already checked out his skills, grades, and character so never lie about any of those things.
7) Don't pull out a list of questions, let the coach make his pitch and fill in any blanks with questions you may have.
8) They are in the business of acquiring players as cheaply as the player is willing to sign for. Offers are often negotiable though they act like they aren't. If they low-ball you at first, be frank without being petty.
9) Do the FAFSA 4caster online to estimate any pell money or stafford loans your kid is eligible for. Keep this information secret and figure it in with their offer. If they insist you will qualify for full pell of $5500 to offset a minimum offer, tell them you know what you qualify for.
10) Many of them talk fast and throw figures out so fast it would make your head spin. They all say they are the best school/team for your kid offering him the maximum exposure to the next level. A lot of them act like used car salesmen. The good ones let their program speak for itself. Some will lie but most will be honest, be prepared to call out the liars and thank the honest ones for their candor.

In general, the worst thing you can do is wear your Sunday finest and son wears $150 shoes, drive the new Escalade, wear expensive fragrance trying to impress. You want to impress upon them you are no dummy but are struggling in these tough economic times. Their is no shame in doing all you can to maximize the offer you are about to receive.
bsbl247bsbl2471,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by FormerObserver:
quote:
"Dad...I have worked very hard, I'm not giving up playing at XYZ School, I know I can play at that level.


Check the rosters and read the articles about signing players.

The school may already have players for your position, or there might be a returning sophomore All-American you would have to compete against.

Timing, injuries, and the draft all have an impact.


Very good advice, thank you FO. We probably attended over twenty college games last year, including a number of games at the colleges on his list. We know who they lost in the draft, and the incoming recruits. We'll see what happens? I know Junior is feeling some pressure, but in the long run he'll be just fine.
TRhitTRhit10,000+ posts
Interesting pieces of info that tie in nicely to this thread.

Was speaking with a college head coach this morning and we were discussing parents/players in the recruiting process. He told me he had two parents emailing regularly about their sons ability---but the emails had tyhe boys name on them --come to find out the parents were sending emails under tyhe guise of being the player--

Another one---player and dad keep saying they have been talking to Coach So and So---spoke with the coach and he says he never spoke with them

Folks it is a fact that the baseball world is a very small world
B bothsportsdad100+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by TRhit:
Interesting pieces of info that tie in nicely to this thread.

Was speaking with a college head coach this morning and we were discussing parents/players in the recruiting process. He told me he had two parents emailing regularly about their sons ability---but the emails had tyhe boys name on them --come to find out the parents were sending emails under tyhe guise of being the player--

Another one---player and dad keep saying they have been talking to Coach So and So---spoke with the coach and he says he never spoke with them

Folks it is a fact that the baseball world is a very small world


^ this is right on by TR...

We went through this process with my daughter.

Coaches knew who we had visited, who we were talking to and where we were going next. I will play my cards a bit closer to the vest this time around with my son. It is indeed a small world and coaches talk.
Last edited by bothsportsdad
ET Everybody throws 90+ now...10+ posts
When Ty Cobb was playing in the 'bush' leagues as a youngster, he wrote several postcards and letters under different alias' to Grantland Rice of the Atlanta Journal praising the young phenom's playing abilities. Rice finally relented and mentioned him in an article, Cobb went on to sign with the Tigers in a HOF career.

On a side note, Cobb won the Triple Crown in 1909 leading the league in homers with 9, all inside the park. The only player to be season's home run leader without ever hitting a ball over the fence.

Not sure how all this applies, but little of what I post makes much sense anyways....
B bsballfan100+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by TRhit:
Interesting pieces of info that tie in nicely to this thread.

Was speaking with a college head coach this morning and we were discussing parents/players in the recruiting process. He told me he had two parents emailing regularly about their sons ability---but the emails had tyhe boys name on them --come to find out the parents were sending emails under tyhe guise of being the player--



This goes on ALL THE TIME....coaches aren't stupid, if the email title says From "Deb Smith" and the email is about how good the kid is written with verbage that the Coach knows the kid WOULD NEVER USE and then signed "Jimmy Smith".....what do you think that tells the college coach?
S standup10+ posts
A parent or kid that sends an informational email is just helping a kid get opportunities to be seen.Think Venus & Serena or Tiger Woods would have made it without their parents?.U think Bryce Harper could have handled everything without any help from adults? I think after a coach has seen a kid that a parents contact with coaches should be minimal or none.I never once even talked to my daughters college coaches except to wave and say hello. If the kid is an impact player they'll be happy they got to know about em. If not it doesn't matter what u do.
B bsballfan100+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by standup:
A parent or kid that sends an informational email is just helping a kid get opportunities to be seen.Think Venus & Serena or Tiger Woods would have made it without their parents?.U think Bryce Harper could have handled everything without any help from adults? I think after a coach has seen a kid that a parents contact with coaches should be minimal or none.I never once even talked to my daughters college coaches except to wave and say hello. If the kid is an impact player they'll be happy they got to know about em. If not it doesn't matter what u do.


Please understand it's not the sending of the email that is the problem....it's the sending it from your account and signing the kids name that is.
Coach_MayCoach_May10,000+ posts
Coach your son on how to do it for himself. Sit down with him and teach him. Then allow him to do it with your assistance. But no matter how good you and your child is at contacting coaches the bottom line will always be what does he bring to the table as a player. Coaches want players they believe can help them win. Be a really good player and get out there and let them see it and everything will be just fine.
S standup10+ posts
I agree with that. It would never be a good idea to give someone a false impression they were communicating with a player. My son doesn't use a computer though he has access to a couple in the family. He's only sent or received a few emails to or from coaches. I've gotton a few dozen regarding him but they are always addressed to me and thats how I reply or initiate. I guess before july 1st the communication is somewhat limited. He's too busy throwing, hitting, working out, running and playing games or scrimmages. On his own he has almost no desire to tell anyone about himself as he says that would make him sound like a "tool". Ive told him that he must call the coaches that address personal emails rather than respond from my computer. I've never really cared for email or texting but it is necessary sometimes.
VectorVector1,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by PGStaff:
Vector,

Please remember that these are just my opinions and I have been wrong about so many things. People need to do what they feel is best for their son.

Whether we call it marketing or something else, there are usually ways to get the job done. In the end, it will no longer be about marketing, everything will be based on what happens on the field and in the classroom.

My suggestion regarding marketing… Figure out how to get son noticed… everything is based on him being seen. Maybe that should be the marketing plan.

We probably know your son, it sounds like he’s pretty good and will be at Jupiter next week. Maybe I will see you there. If you want, PM his name, Best of luck.

BTW, I love the Roosevelt quote.


I respect Teddy immensely. He exemplified the can do American attitude.

I'm not sure if you know my son or not since we did little to nothing in promoting him the last couple years.

We are looking forward to your event because some tourneys/showcases have been a disappointment. Case in point, today my son pitched for a travel team he had not even met until this morning in a wood bat tourney. He had a great day pitching a complete game, allowed no earned runs and only gave up four hits. He had a handful of strikeouts, and did not walk a single kid. Yet despite this tourney being touted as having college coaches and MLB scouts, there was not a single scout in sight the entire game. I tend to roll with the punches and figure many things happen for a reason. Yet
I cannot deny frustration at how luck plays a big part in this process. You can send your son to the events, he can perform great, and all you hear is silence as you sit by the phone.
Last edited by Vector
P PGStaff10,000+ posts
quote:
I cannot deny frustration at how luck plays a big part in this process.


Luck is one of the main ingredients in baseball success. Those who don't believe that will end up being believers. However there are things that can be done to increase chances of success. There is some truth to "The harder I work, the luckier I am". You could add "The better decisions I make, the luckier I'm likely to be".

quote:
He had a great day pitching a complete game, allowed no earned runs and only gave up four hits. He had a handful of strikeouts, and did not walk a single kid.

quote:
You can send your son to the events, he can perform great, and all you hear is silence as you sit by the phone.


Scouts and recruiters are unlikely to have any idea of how many hits, strikeouts, etc. What statistically could be a great game doesn't guarantee interest from them. They are simply looking for those who have the talent to be successful at their level. This is not to say your son doesn't possess that talent. There is no reason to sit by the phone, if they are seriously interested, they will find you.

We have run across a few people who think all they have to do is attend a certain event and "bingo" the phone starts ringing with offers from colleges or interest from pro scouts. While that can happen, there are no guarantees. Exposure is not always a positive thing... Some benefit greatly, some slightly, and some not at all.

quote:
Yet despite this tourney being touted as having college coaches and MLB scouts, there was not a single scout in sight the entire game.

Not sure where you were, but you will not have that issue, you'll see several hundred (maybe close to 1.000) scouts and recruiters next week (The most you've ever seen at one place). However there is no guarantee how many will be at any one game.

The reason I asked about a private message identifying your son is he sounds interesting. I'd actually like to see him and have our scouts glue in on him. If we like him a lot, things are likely to turn out well. But of course I respect your privacy.

Best of luck
PU Pop Up Hitter dad1,000+ posts
PG another classic post, and here I thought son was just sitting on his duff. He is letting his talent and his JC coach do the talking for him. But like I said in the past, he tends to rule out programs he feels really aren't interested or possibly over his head. He also is taking consideration of cost. If a program wants him, but cannot offer much, he will wait. My only concern is he'll get a letter, please fill out questionnaire and then he'll leave it sitting on the desk for over a month before he sends it in. Good post PG.

Add Reply

Post

Membership Required

We're sorry. You must be signed in to continue. Sign In or Register
×
Are you sure you want to remove from your Block List?
×
Loading...
×
When you block a person, they can no longer invite you to a private message or post to your profile wall. Replies and comments they make will be collapsed/hidden by default. Finally, you'll never receive email notifications about content they create or likes they designate for your content.
Note: if you proceed, you will no longer be following .
×
Advanced Search
Advanced Search
Link copied to your clipboard.
×