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Hello,

My son(2020), age 14 this past March, is playing 14u this season and this is his first year where he will be a starting pitcher.  He started playing baseball at age 10 through local in-house leagues, joined a "travel" team at age 13, that was a slight step above.  He has pitched some over the years, but never more than an inning here or there, sometimes two, nothing consistent.  I'd say he has likely not pitched more than 20 innings in one season, and that was age 12 I believe.

He has a goal to play in HS, and has made strides each year where I think this is possible, and have been told by others that they think so.  He is a bigger kid, 6'1" 155-160 lbs or so, and I know some may be giving him a benefit of the doubt due to that.  

He enjoys pitching and has been working hard, and I spend a lot of time reading, trying to learn, etc.  His team/training academy place generally follows Wolforth in what they do, and that's what he follows, and he has used Driveline protocols as well.  In addition to his baseball training, he also works out with a trainer for strength, which has helped a ton, as he was always a bit awkward, but the strength has really made a difference in his athleticism.  He is not some stud prodigy, throws in the low 70's, 71-72 off the mound, not sure how consistent that speed is, and still working on command, secondary pitches, etc., in other words, pretty green.

Being a starting pitcher is new to him, expected to pitch on a weekly basis 1-2x a week, depending on pitch load.  The coach has asked him to come up with a gameday warm-up plan to follow.  He does some things now that he generally does for arm care prior to throwing, but nothing specific for a gameday warmup.  The coach will work with him, but he is big on the players taking ownership of what they need to do(which has been great), and not just dictating, but working with the player.

I wanted to ask if anyone can offer any guidance, suggestions, advice on what they, or their players/kids have usually done, at around this age?  There is such a wealth of knowledge here that I thought it would be a good place to get some ideas to help him.

Thank you.

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Frank, First off I wish the best of luck to your son on his new goals in being a starter.You are going to get alot of very good advice from some very knowledgable people here.But keep this in mind.In all the advice,tips,opinions you get your son needs to be willing to some trial and error to what works/fits him the best.It may be 90% of the next post and a couple of things from post ten.Could be something else.The one thing I notice from not only the younger guys but from a too high number of HS pitchers is having too much time from stopping thier warm up to actually taking the mound.This is something I first noticed 3-4 yrs. ago with a kid 2016 plays with.That started me watching all the pitchers of whatever game I'm at if there before game starts.I should have kept better track of this.This could be something stats has put some numbers with over the years.Now I'm not saying its a 100% thing if theres 15-20 minutes between warm up and pitching then having a high PC in the 1st inning.But I do see that end up happing alot.I realize playing away games makes it a bit tough just try and keep the time short.

My son is a college pitcher and they have about a 45 minutes warm up for the starters. This includes; First - Stretching. Hips, legs, back, core first, then arms (both) with bands. Light tossing from about 20-25 feet away, building up velocity.  before he takes the mound, he is "pitching" from flat ground to a catcher. Then finally to the mound where it is 10 minutes or so (I have never timed how much on the mound but that seemed about right - I do know the whole thing is about 45 minutes because my son and I have discussed it several times). He works thru all his pitches while on the mound. Both from windup and stretch.

 

 

My son was a starter and reliever in HS (also played SS).  He started this college season as a reliever but now is starting some.  I haven't seen his routine at college....but his HS routine was something like this:  I'll assume  home game where they got to the field an hour or so before game time.  This may not be "textbook", but it worked for him

-Stretch a little...jog a bit...and generally goof off for about 15 minutes

-Throw with a partner....starting at 10 yds or so and progressing up to long toss for as far as he could throw....then back down.  Total time probably 10 minutes or so

-Throw with a partner....roughly pitching distance but in the outfield (no mound)...no real windup...just throwing (fastballs at roughly 75-80% and curve/change)....probably 5-10 minutes

-Go sit in the dugout or goof off again ....probably another 10-15 minutes

-Hit the bullpen to throw live with a catcher and get ready to go - 10 minutes

 

Normal stretch routine with teammates.  If you are not familiar with Jaeger's band routine, check into that.  A light version of the band routine works for many P's prior to a start.  When doing warm up tosses, get some light flat ground to get rhythm and feel for all grips.  Time your actual pen warm up based on game start time and home or visitor.  I think 10-15 minutes before you will take the game mound is good.  Be sure to work from wind and stretch and get reps on all pitches.  Be very specific with target location.  Some have a specific sequence of pitch types and locations as part of their routine (not so much with 14 y.o.'s maybe).  When getting hot, use game velo and rhythm.   Ideally, your catcher will be able to work with you so you two can start syncing up before game.  Don't get your bullpen pitch count up so much that you will tire early in the game.

Last edited by cabbagedad

NTGson is 2016 (LHP going D1 next fall). I don't know his routine on-field. I do know that the advice given us, his parents, 7 years ago by a wonderfully grizzled coach who works with him: "Don't talk to the boy 'bout pitching tonight. Make sure he knows you love him, that you will be there to see him on the mound and wish him luck. Anythin' else just clutters his brain up."

That's been tough for me as a 'wannabe' coach, but it has worked since he first took the mound as an 11 year old. His routine is what he and his coaches have decided it will be. The only place where we chime in is on issue of pitch counts: per inning and per game. That's done with the coaches away from the field and long before any game.

FrankJP posted:

Hello,

My son(2020), age 14 this past March, is playing 14u this season and this is his first year where he will be a starting pitcher.  He started playing baseball at age 10 through local in-house leagues, joined a "travel" team at age 13, that was a slight step above.  He has pitched some over the years, but never more than an inning here or there, sometimes two, nothing consistent.  I'd say he has likely not pitched more than 20 innings in one season, and that was age 12 I believe.

He has a goal to play in HS, and has made strides each year where I think this is possible, and have been told by others that they think so.  He is a bigger kid, 6'1" 155-160 lbs or so, and I know some may be giving him a benefit of the doubt due to that.  

He enjoys pitching and has been working hard, and I spend a lot of time reading, trying to learn, etc.  His team/training academy place generally follows Wolforth in what they do, and that's what he follows, and he has used Driveline protocols as well.  In addition to his baseball training, he also works out with a trainer for strength, which has helped a ton, as he was always a bit awkward, but the strength has really made a difference in his athleticism.  He is not some stud prodigy, throws in the low 70's, 71-72 off the mound, not sure how consistent that speed is, and still working on command, secondary pitches, etc., in other words, pretty green.

Being a starting pitcher is new to him, expected to pitch on a weekly basis 1-2x a week, depending on pitch load.  The coach has asked him to come up with a gameday warm-up plan to follow.  He does some things now that he generally does for arm care prior to throwing, but nothing specific for a gameday warmup.  The coach will work with him, but he is big on the players taking ownership of what they need to do(which has been great), and not just dictating, but working with the player.

I wanted to ask if anyone can offer any guidance, suggestions, advice on what they, or their players/kids have usually done, at around this age?  There is such a wealth of knowledge here that I thought it would be a good place to get some ideas to help him.

Thank you.

I'll tell you how I warmed up from little league through high school and beyond.

   1)  Arrive at field 15 or so minutes before the game.

   2) Coach throws a dozen balls on the ground from a bag.  They MUST be brown and  scuffed.  This, I think, must be important, for they were always this way.

   3)  Coach commands the team to pick up said balls and "Warm up."

   4) Either you or a partner picks up the ball ,and you get back about as far away as the

        pitcher's mound (60 feet or so.  If little league, 45 feet or so).

    5)  Throw a couple of balls at half intensity.

     6) Notice that the other guy seems to be throwing it hard, and don't let yourself be

        outdone as a man.

            a.  The process can be expedited if you are throwing with an older kid or

                 someone you want to impress.  Just start out flinging it.  You want respect!

      7) Continue to throw max velocity for roughly 75 pitches.

      8)  Toss in a number of "curves", which are really sliders on which you twist your wrist.   

              a.  These also should be done at max effort for best results.

       6)  Once your shoulder, biceps, and elbow are screaming in pain you're warm.

       7)  Go get 'em, tiger. 

Question, will your son be a pitcher only?

JMO but the coach should be helping your son to develop a routine, unless he has no clue what a 14 year old should be doing.

Keep it simple.  You dont want to burn out before he pitches.

Run poles until he breaks into a sweat, this tells you are warmed up.   With rest of team, throwing warm ups with partner. Bullpen to practice pitches. Set on a specific number amount depending on how many pitches he has.   At his age he only needs 2-3 pitches.  His fastball the #1 pitch. Don't forget to stretch. If he is not a pitcher and hits, he can take batting practice.

Again, keep it simple.  He is 14.

 

 

Last edited by TPM

Son is a 2016 headed to a D1 as a PO. Has had a pretty solid routine for a few years now...Good to get in that habit. I find that most HS pitchers DON'T warm up enough!!! They do some light stretching, toss and then head to the pen. Not enough IMO. My son will do the following, which will remind those who are into this stuff of what Trevor Bauer does prior to starts. My son is definitely a throw more (not pitch, but throw) kind of kid. It has worked for him and kept him healthy and strong and able to be ready every 7 days, which is a typical HS starter workload:

- Stretch

- Foam Roller on his back and legs

- Hip Mobility exercises

- Sprints (please don't run poles...If you don't believe me, there are tons of articles online that you can access that show jogging is the worst possible thing a pitcher can do)

- Band work

- Shoulder Tube ( A must for any pitcher. Invest in one from Oates Specialties if you don't have one. You won't regret it. Your son will be embarrassed to bring it to the field at first but nothing loosens the shoulder like that thing will)

- Long toss - (Basically a Jaeger long toss) Starts close working his way out lobbing it as you go out. Throws must be accurate. Works his way out to farthest point with 4-5 max throws with arc. He has a cut off man for the catcher to get it back out to him. Hard throws on a line coming back in.

- Flat ground working on all pitch types

- Bullpen

Seems like a lot but at this point he is truly warmed up. This has worked for him for the last 4-5 years and his velo has increased during the season so he is not wearing himself out prior to starts. 

Also, you should have a post game routine, which should include Sprints, Shoulder Tube again (less intensity though). He hasn't need ice or Advil/Aleve in 3 years or more using this routine.

Hope that helps and good luck to you and your son

TPM posted:

Question, will your son be a pitcher only?

JMO but the coach should be helping your son to develop a routine, unless he has no clue what a 14 year old should be doing.

Keep it simple.  You dont want to burn out before he pitches.

Run poles until he breaks into a sweat, this tells you are warmed up.   With rest of team, throwing warm ups with partner. Bullpen to practice pitches. Set on a specific number amount depending on how many pitches he has.   At his age he only needs 2-3 pitches.  His fastball the #1 pitch. Don't forget to stretch. If he is not a pitcher and hits, he can take batting practice.

Again, keep it simple.  He is 14.

 

 

Hi,

Thank you, appreciate the time for a  reply.  

Just to be clear, the coach will be helping to develop a routine, but the coach has asked him to develop something initially on his own.  They will then review, discuss, and tweak it together.  It's part of the coach wanting him to take ownership of what he's doing, as they do spend a lot of time reviewing warmups, armcare, etc.

He will not be a pitcher only, but he will be one of the primary pitchers, was told he would usually be starting on a weekly basis, 1-2x a week depending on pitch counts, etc.  In the past, he wouldn't know if he was pitching until asked really, so this is new to him.

Thanks again.

proudhesmine posted:

Frank, First off I wish the best of luck to your son on his new goals in being a starter.You are going to get alot of very good advice from some very knowledgable people here.But keep this in mind.In all the advice,tips,opinions you get your son needs to be willing to some trial and error to what works/fits him the best.It may be 90% of the next post and a couple of things from post ten.Could be something else.The one thing I notice from not only the younger guys but from a too high number of HS pitchers is having too much time from stopping thier warm up to actually taking the mound.This is something I first noticed 3-4 yrs. ago with a kid 2016 plays with.That started me watching all the pitchers of whatever game I'm at if there before game starts.I should have kept better track of this.This could be something stats has put some numbers with over the years.Now I'm not saying its a 100% thing if theres 15-20 minutes between warm up and pitching then having a high PC in the 1st inning.But I do see that end up happing alot.I realize playing away games makes it a bit tough just try and keep the time short.

Thank you, he seems pretty excited about it.  I figured I would be able to get some good advice/guidance here, and appears to be the case so far.  

I do know that while he is being planned as a starter, he will of course relieve when needed.  So, he needs to develop a plan for starting, and what he will do when asked to be a reliever.  

Let me also add, from the other post, that the coach will work with him, and does understand what's needed, but wants the kids to have some control and understand what they are doing.  Also, me asking here does not mean that I will create one for him, but he will come up with something, and then we will discuss it before he discusses with coach.

Thanks for the tip on the delays, I'll tell him to be cognizant of that.

 

Teaching Elder posted:

I'll tell you how I warmed up from little league through high school and beyond.

   1)  Arrive at field 15 or so minutes before the game.

   2) Coach throws a dozen balls on the ground from a bag.  They MUST be brown and  scuffed.  This, I think, must be important, for they were always this way.

   3)  Coach commands the team to pick up said balls and "Warm up."

   4) Either you or a partner picks up the ball ,and you get back about as far away as the

        pitcher's mound (60 feet or so.  If little league, 45 feet or so).

    5)  Throw a couple of balls at half intensity.

     6) Notice that the other guy seems to be throwing it hard, and don't let yourself be

        outdone as a man.

            a.  The process can be expedited if you are throwing with an older kid or

                 someone you want to impress.  Just start out flinging it.  You want respect!

      7) Continue to throw max velocity for roughly 75 pitches.

      8)  Toss in a number of "curves", which are really sliders on which you twist your wrist.   

              a.  These also should be done at max effort for best results.

       6)  Once your shoulder, biceps, and elbow are screaming in pain you're warm.

       7)  Go get 'em, tiger. 

You arrived 15 minutes before the game started?  

 

The Rover posted:

Son is a 2016 headed to a D1 as a PO. Has had a pretty solid routine for a few years now...Good to get in that habit. I find that most HS pitchers DON'T warm up enough!!! They do some light stretching, toss and then head to the pen. Not enough IMO. My son will do the following, which will remind those who are into this stuff of what Trevor Bauer does prior to starts. My son is definitely a throw more (not pitch, but throw) kind of kid. It has worked for him and kept him healthy and strong and able to be ready every 7 days, which is a typical HS starter workload:

- Stretch

- Foam Roller on his back and legs

- Hip Mobility exercises

- Sprints (please don't run poles...If you don't believe me, there are tons of articles online that you can access that show jogging is the worst possible thing a pitcher can do)

- Band work

- Shoulder Tube ( A must for any pitcher. Invest in one from Oates Specialties if you don't have one. You won't regret it. Your son will be embarrassed to bring it to the field at first but nothing loosens the shoulder like that thing will)

- Long toss - (Basically a Jaeger long toss) Starts close working his way out lobbing it as you go out. Throws must be accurate. Works his way out to farthest point with 4-5 max throws with arc. He has a cut off man for the catcher to get it back out to him. Hard throws on a line coming back in.

- Flat ground working on all pitch types

- Bullpen

Seems like a lot but at this point he is truly warmed up. This has worked for him for the last 4-5 years and his velo has increased during the season so he is not wearing himself out prior to starts. 

Also, you should have a post game routine, which should include Sprints, Shoulder Tube again (less intensity though). He hasn't need ice or Advil/Aleve in 3 years or more using this routine.

Hope that helps and good luck to you and your son

Thank you, appreciate your advice.  His initial plan looks something like what you have, some dynamic warm up exercises/stretches(hip, spine, etc) then some arm care work like the shoulder tube, tubing or bands, wrist weights, and then bullpen.  He has done some long toss going for the first couple of games, but not extreme.

For post game, he has just listed so far a couple of arm care exercises(tubing, wrist weights, shoulder tube, etc).  The team as a whole does do some postgame stuff, though I think he may need to add a couple things, though I am not sure all of what they do, other than some stretching stuff.


Thanks to all, appreciate the help!

 2) Coach throws a dozen balls on the ground from a bag.  They MUST be brown and  scuffed.  This, I think, must be important, for they were always this way.

Make sure you pick out a few and test their weights.  You don't want one of the light ones - you want one that was previously waterlogged so as to give it some weight - sounds better when it hits the glove.  Allows you to reach #6 (pain) that much quicker.

On a serious note, I saw one person recommend running poles with another saying only sprints ("please don't run poles").  This is a wonderful ongoing argument that centers around aerobic and anaerobic benefits and the speed in which lactic acid breaks down and/or gets flushed out.  All that said, I'm going with poles for the pitchers warm up.  My guess is this has zero to do with the underlying conditioning and everything to do with warming up the body - slowly.  For your coaches sake, please don't break out the track shoes and wind up pulling a hamstring trying to break your personal record for the 40 - especially right before you are expected to pitch.

Yes, There is a debate about long distance vs sprints but the research and evidence leans very heavily towards NOT running long distances. I would just suggest everyone look online at lots of resources ranging from Wolforth, Driveline, Eric Cressey, etc. All strongly suggest that poles are one of the worst possible things you can have pitchers do. Works all of the wrong muscle groups. Shortens stride length and the whole lactic acid flush is a myth. Just look at any pic of a long distance runner and a sprinter. Quite a difference in body type and a pretty obvious one that would be more beneficial for a pitcher.

http://ericcressey.com/should-...at-the-research-says

http://baseballnews.com/should...-run-long-distances/

http://www.theulitmatepitcher....r-baseball-pitchers/

https://www.drivelinebaseball....-system-development/

 

THE ROVER - Don't get me wrong - I come down on the side of sprints as it relates to conditioning and possibly post-game activity.  I'm just thinking about a pitching outing up North in March - maybe 40-45 degrees when the player sets foot on the field.  Not real sure sprints are something to incorporate into one's warm-up.  Maybe in May down south when it's already 90 degrees and everything is already pretty loose, but I would not recommend any type of full blown sprint until after everything is warmed up 100%.  Maybe jogging a few poles can be replaced with some half speed "sprints", but please don't even think about any type of sprint start or max effort on the front end to get things started.

On a related note, I have started hearing some folks talk about how stretching is unnecessary and can even be counter-productive.  No idea how proper stretching can be bad, but wanted to see if anyone has looked into this further.

lionbaseball posted:
Teaching Elder posted:

I'll tell you how I warmed up from little league through high school and beyond.

   1)  Arrive at field 15 or so minutes before the game.

   2) Coach throws a dozen balls on the ground from a bag.  They MUST be brown and  scuffed.  This, I think, must be important, for they were always this way.

   3)  Coach commands the team to pick up said balls and "Warm up."

   4) Either you or a partner picks up the ball ,and you get back about as far away as the

        pitcher's mound (60 feet or so.  If little league, 45 feet or so).

    5)  Throw a couple of balls at half intensity.

     6) Notice that the other guy seems to be throwing it hard, and don't let yourself be

        outdone as a man.

            a.  The process can be expedited if you are throwing with an older kid or

                 someone you want to impress.  Just start out flinging it.  You want respect!

      7) Continue to throw max velocity for roughly 75 pitches.

      8)  Toss in a number of "curves", which are really sliders on which you twist your wrist.   

              a.  These also should be done at max effort for best results.

       6)  Once your shoulder, biceps, and elbow are screaming in pain you're warm.

       7)  Go get 'em, tiger. 

You arrived 15 minutes before the game started?  

 

Well, heck yeah man.   Me and my folks were serious...and i wanted to drop by the concession stand for a giant Pixie Stick and a suicide before the game.

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