Helicopter Parents - from a college dean

BIO

A graduate of Stanford and Harvard Law, Julie Lythcott-Haims practiced law in the Bay Area for many years before returning to Stanford as an Associate Dean, and then Assistant to the President (John Hennessy). After that, she spent a decade as the Dean of Freshmen, a position she created in 2002. Almost 20,000 undergraduates matriculated on her watch, and in 2010 she received the university’s Lloyd W. Dinkelspiel Award. To her students she was affectionately known as “Dean Julie.”

So I guess it was ok and fitting for her to  chase the stanford/harvard dream but would be way too pressure packed for mere mortals.  Kind of lost me already right there.  I will pass on her sage advice and continue to follow my own conscience and values.

Not a bad read, just someone's perspective, generalities mostly.

 

Some super smart poster wrote something last year that stuck in my head.  "Are you preparing the road for your child or preparing your child for the road?" (paraphrased)

 

I stopped micro managing my son's school work this year. I used to know when every assignment was due, when every test was, and would structure his time.  I now just hold him accountable for his grades.  He's an 8th grader this year.  First nine weeks just came out, wasn't too pretty.  But I think it helped him.  We'll see.  Travel coaches make the kids turn in report cards to them.  He got some talk time from the coach on what not so good grades would to for his college opportunities.

I think its the concept of parents not being able to let go, teaching their children to make decisions on their own so that they function in the real world as adults.

 

I wouldn't be honest if I didn't admit that we have been that parent at times in our children's lives.  I raised my kids differently because I learned a lot from the first from what I should have or should not have done.

 

In sports here is an example. I saw a dad this summer plant himself at the backstop telling his son what to do each time he came up at bat. The kid was good, really good, but coaching him while the coaches were also coaching was just wrong.  The player was 16 years old. 

 

I also know parents that do their children's homework, I am not talking about elementary school kids. How is this helping the child?  How is that child going to be able to cope when they do go to college (after mom or dad have filled out all of the applications and did all of the homework)?

 

When do you let it go?

 

I think she brings up some valid points. I also think that this is a very good topic that has been brought up here since the term was first invented (many many years ago) and frankly, I don't see things getting any better as far as parents letting their children learn to be more responsible for themselves to be able to handle adulthood.

 

JMO

 

 

The world is just a different place than it was when most on this board grew up.  And changes are exponential these days.  You have a generation of kids who haven't seen a CD or floppy disc.  They have a library of information (good and bad) at their fingertips (most have probably never checked out a book).  Add the mobile phone and social media.  Throw in a little "zero tolerance" and political correctness.  These days things can go very wrong for kids, very fast.  The stakes are higher.          

 

Back when the copy machine came out, we all know someone who "copied" his butt.  Today, a kid posts a picture of his butt online and it can be a federal offense.  Many times, there is no going back. 

 

Thus, parenting becomes different.  You have to watch and be diligent.  There are so many unintended consequences from todays rules.  I can't tell you how many times I looked at something my kid was doing for school, and had to ask myself is this "ok."  Things, you and I would never think of.  Do we protecting them from failure -- you bet your butt because the consequences of failure are huge.

 

Now that's different from making them wusses and doing everything for them. 

I am glad that you added that in because there is a big difference in trying to help your kids understand what it means to be responsible with social media and doing their homework.

 

 

Thank you golf.  You put that much more eloquently than I could have.  That is the problem I have every time a subject like this comes up.  The world is 180 degrees from what it was when I grew up.  When I was a kid no cell phones and the first answering machines were just coming out.  Only the rich could afford them.  Video pong shocked the world with a game you could play on your tv (black and white in our case).  You played outside late into the night because every neighbors yard you ran through knew you and your parents.  You could fight one day (physically) and be friends again the next day.  And there was honor in fighting then.  No friends jumping in - just one on one - and when somebody admitted defeat the fight was over.  You didn't just continue to beat him senseless because you could.  No guns or knives were pulled except in the rarest of cases.  Bullies were handled by a tougher good guy. You did something stupid and the neighborhood cop sent you home and threatened to tell your dad next time.  Cops took your beer and sent you home from your high school party - only if you were loud otherwise they left you alone to your underage drinking.  I could go on and on.  Already too much of a trip down memory lane...  but bottom line is you better give more guidance than our parents did cause things change.  Sad for them but true.

 

Sure thing, you better do your due diligence to know where your children are or who they are with.  No argument with that.

But , what does that have to do with the article posted?

 

 

I told my kids if there's an ounce of doubt in your mind, there's a good chance you're doing the wrong thing or you're in the wrong place.

 

i allowed my kids to make mistakes when they were young. It was things that wouldn't harm them. An example was I told them they got x dollars per week for the ice cream man. I suggested they buy one per day. When my son was five he bought two each of the first three days. On the 5th day he asked for more money. I refused. He learned to budget.

Ice cream every day???? 

 

When I was growing up, wheat germ on our sugarless cereal was dad's idea of a treat. 

 

Chasing the Stanford/Harvard dream back in her day was nothing at all what it is like to chase that dream today.   Partly due to the rise of the common app, partly due to the the way parenting has developed, kids who are chasing the Stanford/Harvard dream these days are under a LOT more psychological and emotional stress. Julie Lynthcott-Haims has seen this up close and personal, believe  me.  In one freshman dorm at Stanford last year, for example,  nearly 1/3 of the students were on some form of anti-depressant.   Lots and lots of stress and pressure on ambitious, high achieving kids these days that just wasn't there back in the day. 

 

Harvard has a very informative and powerful letter on its website, addressed to all admitted students, their parents, and potential students, urging all admitted students to consider taking  a gap year  before starting Harvard, once admitted.   It gets at many of the same things that Lythcott-Haims is talking about.   I think it should be required reading for high achieving students and the parents, teachers and counselors who push them so relentlessly. 

 

Here's a little excerpt that's particularly  relevant to us all here as parents of sports ambitious kids:

 

Sports, music, dance, and other recreational activities used to provide a welcome break, a time to relax and unwind. No more: training for college scholarships—or professional contracts—begins early, even in grammar school. Professional instruction, summer camps, and weekly practice and game schedules consume many hours and nearly all free time. Student and family commuting logistics become byzantine in their complexity. Even “play-time” is often structured and enriched with just the right mix of appropriate playmates and educational activities. Summer vacations have become a thing of the past. The pace of the day and the year allows little time simply “to be a kid”—or, it seems, to develop into a complete human being.

 

The entire letter is here:

 

https://college.harvard.edu/ad...e/should-i-take-time

There were incredible amounts of stress back in the day also on those kids.  There were just fewer of those kids.  I was the first one ever and I mean ever in my family going back to time immemorial who graduated from college.  I had no intention of being a 'college boy'.  That was for people who were not my kind.  My dad worked at the plant, my brother worked at the plant and I was going to work at the plant.  So I took my high IQ and turned it into a 1.96 gpa in high school while I bided my time to work at the plant.  Just before I graduated the plant announced it was closing.  Just about all the steel mills in town had closed, GAF and the breweries were long gone.  Times were changing.  I found myself in a world that has passed my kind by.  I had no choice but to go to college.  Now I realize our entire family was played by 'the man'.  Just like this lady wealth and power is right for them but you shouldn't strive for it cause its just too much pressure.  How many times have you heard the business owner say 'I wouldn't wish this on anybody' or 'my business dominates my life' (says he while he sits at the country club with his buddies after his midweek round of golf.)  Perhaps there is some pressure when you are trying to climb your way up from the bottom.  I wish my dad would have been savvy enough to make me realize we could and should compete for the almighty dollar.  I will not make that mistake with my kids.  Money CAN buy happiness and a lack thereof is sure to bring misery.  Will there be pressure along the way?  Perhaps, but someday hopefully my kids are sitting at the country club after their midweek round of golf...  and hopefully they are comfortable but charitable at the same time.  And hopefully my kids steal a slice of that pie the ruling classes don't want to share.  So I will continue to guide my children and nudge them to be better than me.  And WE will do it together yes WE as in myself my wife and my kids.

2020Dad - I see that this article really rubbed you the wrong way.  I'm struggling a little bit to see why because I agree with much of what you wrote, but I also very much agree with much of what the Stanford Dean says.

 

A few years ago I had an employee in my office, madder than he!! because we weren't going to hire his daughter for an internship.  One of the supervisors under me said he would, I said no.  His daughter was a communications major, we are a national research lab.  It wasn't a good fit and besides, I didn't think it was the best idea to hire kids directly into their parents organization.

 

What did he do next?  Went to the lawyers.  Does that sound right to you?  To me, this is the ultimate 'helicopter parent.'

 

But now the response gets fuzzy - the lawyers told me that while we couldn't do him a 'favor' by hiring his daughter, we also couldn't eliminate her.  So I went back to the employees supervisor (also a good friend of his) and said, 'look me in the eye and tell me you're not doing him a favor.'  The supervisor basically lied and said, 'no, absolutely not.'

 

So I let him hire her to do 'communications' for one of our labs.  By the end of the summer, she was tied for THE WORST intern we'd ever had.  She embarrassed her father (although I don't know if he ever figured that out) because many of his colleagues were talking about it without him in the room.  He effectively humiliated his daughter and I'm not the only one who saw it that way.

 

But note that I said "tied for the worst."  Who did she tie with?  Yeah, you guessed it, the daughter of one of the lead HR managers at our lab who successfully pressured my boss to pressure us to take her.  Total waste.  She began her end of summer presentation with, "What did I learn on my summer internship - that I'd never want to be an engineer."

 

#Awesome!! 

 

So here's my thought - we're all helicopter parents to some degree and OF COURSE we should help our kids achieve dreams.  Point out the pathway, be a mentor and provide the venue within our means.  But how far are you willing to go? - and I think thats what the Dean is asking us to ask ourselves.  And I especially like her advice that there are plenty of good schools not named Stanford or Harvard.  I went to a gigantic State U. that you wouldn't list in hardly anyone's top 100 schools and got a great education and have been very successful - probably beyond my dreams - and I got to go to Stanford for grad school to boot!

 

I do feel that I became a better parent with better long term results when I began to let my 6 kids make mistakes, pick themselves up and figure out how to solve it themselves and move forward.  It has been tough a few times (really tough!), but I really like what we're getting on the other end of that in terms of how our kids are doing as young adults.  This is what I think the main message is by the Dean.

Money IMO buys opportunities, but you can have it and still be unhappy. not to get off topic but leading a grateful life is what personally makes me happy. There's also a myth that you will/should be happy every minute. Life doesn't work that way. 

College life can be very difficult for young adults. Hopefully they go with a strong sense of self and realize it's only a temporary stop in life. Make the best of it, and move on to the next step. We need to let our kids experience ups/down and know they can work through things and come out better for it. 

Ive seen academic parents be just as "involved" in their kids grades, as sports parents that are over the top pushing their athletes.

Just BB you are right it did rub me the wrong way.  And I probably showed my you know what a little too much.  But that is how I feel.  It is a gigantic red button pushed when I hear people saying (like she did) that its wrong, inadvisable or whatever term you want to use for us to worry about what school our kids go to.  And let them find their own way in life.  If you are born into wealth and knowledge you can find your own way.  When you re born into struggles that is what you know.  You need somebody to tell you it doesn't have to be that way.  I put myself behind the 8 ball.  My fault not my parents.  But I wish the value of money was promoted in my house as much as the value of religion and being a good person.  When I finally came out of the ether and changed my direction it was too late.  Took the LSAT, scored very high got accepted to law school only to realize I couldn't swing it financially as I already had my first child (who is now on a full ride academic - we are winning 1-0 so far and we are in the early innings!).  My parents laid the groundwork by working so hard to send us all through catholic schools in spite of the fact it left them broke week after week.  But I saw the other side there.  Didn't catch on quickly enough but saw it.  My kids may or may not drink but I will lead them to water.  Encourage them to hang with the rich and popular and make connections that will serve them well later in life.  Then hopefully someday their children - my grandchildren - will be born with that silver spoon in their mouths.  But when WE as a family have climbed that mountain hopefully they will lend a hand and pull others up with them, not tell them how stressful the climb is and they should just stay down where it is comfortable.  "You don't want my money and all the headaches it brings, just stay where you are"  What does all this have to do with baseball?  No different in athletics.  It is a big red button for me when the parents (who probably mean no harm) of college players talk about how hard it is to get there and we parents of young ones are dreaming.  I teach my kids and the kids i coach to never let anyone tell you what you can or can't do.  And if we fail in the long run we will know we fought the fight as hard as we could.  Yes WE, cause it takes a team effort to elevate sometimes.  Yes just BB a bit of a sensitive subject for me.  But everything you need to know in life can be learned from the godfather "I lived my life, and I don't apologize, to take care of my family"  If its good enough for Vito Corleone then its good enough for me!

I didnt read the book but I understood the point she was trying to get at as pointed out by JBB.

 

There comes a time when you have to step back and let the kids handle it on their own. The earlier the better. And I too feel that I became a better parent when my kids failed at one point, not that we were not there to advise, but by just asking what did you learn from what happened? That doesn't mean that we were always concerned. And its not easy letting go. My dad was a Yale engineering graduate and my brother couldnt get a sniff into MIT or Harvard or Yale, but he went to RPI and still became an engineer. He also followed the same route as my dad and let the government pay for his education (navy my dad was army), and my folks could well afford the tuition. He made it work. 

 

I think she has valid points, its about those really brilliant kids who have their folks doing the things they should be doing themselves. When I hear stories of graduates applying for jobs and the parents negotiating for them, well, as I said when do you let go?

 

Go44dad cited a great example. Letting his son figure out in 8th grade he has to be accountable will allow him to be accountable when it really is important. So letting his grades fall a bit and then having a sit down with the coach about college opportunities probably drove the point home about taking care of business on your own, good for you dad!

 

No one is telling anyone how to raise their children, but using a little common sense seems to be lacking these days, and that is not on the kids, but on the parents.

 

Lets kind of relate this to baseball, which is  a game of failure,  if you never fail at one point, you will never learn how to cope with failure and you will never learn to succeed.  

 

 

My wife is an elementary school administrator.  Her school is in an extremely wealthy area of MIami Beach.( Just for giggles, here are sale listings... http://www.zillow.com/la-gorce-miami-beach-fl/)

 

You would be amazed at the stories she brings home.  Last week she had a meeting with a parent that was concerned because her child had never received a "B" before, and perhaps there was an issue with the teacher. Her child is in FIRST GRADE.

 

The best though are the parents who will pay for a private psychological screening to show that their child is "gifted".  Because of district policy, the administrators have no choice but to place those kids in a "gifted" class. Parents are warned that the curriculum is harder, and that the students are expected to work far more independently than in regular classes.

 

Fast forward a month or so and the parents are in the office complaining about the difficulty and how their child's grades have dropped...

 

My wife's desk has a divot now from all the times she has banged her head on it.

Rob T,

Exactly why I am not teaching anymore! 

 

2020Dad - I like you're response (mostly).  Perhaps the only thing we are not eye-to-eye on is chasing the $$ as much as chasing the good person thing.  No, I'm not judging you at all, I just realized over time that while the more money we had, the more things we could do....but I'm not sure I'm any happier overall than when I had little of it.  (BTW, I started out with nothing myself - my parents weren't poor (nor rich) and we didn't ask for nor get any 'startup cash' - but we had about $50 in our bank account when we got married).

 

I guess if I had to make a choice, I'd rather my kids be good people than wealthy people.

"You don't want my money and all the headaches it brings, just stay where you are" 

I guess I can sorta see where you see this in the article...but I didn't take it that way at all.  However, given that you took it this way, I do understand your thoughts about it. 

What does all this have to do with baseball?  No different in athletics.  It is a big red button for me when the parents (who probably mean no harm) of college players talk about how hard it is to get there and we parents of young ones are dreaming.

Uh oh, I am definitely guilty of this - and you may have been referring to me(?) as one of them.  Thats ok!!  Because I certainly mean no harm.  I guess I'm just saying that yeah, its hard, really hard!  Way harder than I thought!!!!  And once you're there, its even harder to stay there!!!!!!

 

And so I guess what most of us are meaning when we say this is something like, 'don't underestimate the difficulty, don't make it the ONLY goal, don't put your son in a position to feel like he failed you if he cannot get there and don't ever let yourself feel like you messed up in case your son didn't get there.'

 

Too many parents (don't think you're one of them) act as if a) its their child's God-given destiny to get there or b) if they just practice enough, buy enough lessons, attend enough showcases and be seen enough, it will happen.

Both or either a & b could be true...I certainly wouldn't know even if I had seen anyone's son, but I certainly have known a number of parents that believed a, b (or both) and were wrong.  (I've known many who were right too!!).

 

2020Dad - I love the passion in your posts.  I have a good feeling that if we lived in the same town we would have enjoyed coaching with or against each other.  I am VERY competitive myself, as is my wife, and our kids have turned out to be so as well.  I see it as a good thing.  I think there are too many docile parents out there not teaching (or letting) their kids (learn) how to compete - they're doing everything for them.  The funny thing is that I also think the Dean was kind of making the same point in her own way.  At least thats how it struck me.

I kind of wish you were still teaching TPM, I don't think you would let the schools get away with what they are doing now.  Everything is so automated that the actual teachers aren't even aware of what the questions are on the assignments are any more.