How will you teach hitting?

1st Runger? Well at least my ladder is outside the garage. LOL!

Now John, lets work on that core. But coach, I don't have a bat. Son you don't need one. We are going to hit this ball with load. Look Ma, no arms, no hands ... You once noted that you had been a "coach." I now know why you got out.

Simply saying that the hands will set themselves. Now you once posted that coaches don't instruct.

Linear,

Dont forget those wrists and arms. The stronger - the better. IMO

quote:

Originally posted by CoachB25:
1st Runger? Well at least my ladder is outside the garage. LOL!

Now John, lets work on that core. But coach, I don't have a bat....

Great attempt at diversion. Not unexpected for someone on the 1st rung who "promotes" himself as "the baseball guy" of your area. Your inability to open to this stuff because you don't like me, blue dog, or some other internet guy, or because "no one can tell me anything" hurts your kids.

If you were on rung 2 or 3, you would understand how to carry, load/unload with a bat.

But, you don't. Won't. Because your ego won't let you say........someone else knows this stuff more than I do.

And that ego is obtructionism. That ego stands between #6, #7, #8 and #9 becoming more than they ever thought they could be. It's quite obvious that #1-#5 in your program make you. You don't make them.

Shock and Awe!

quote:

BTW, I've read it, I've heard others say it, I've said it. Is it true? Is his batspeed subpar for mlb players? Or do you know?

His bat quickness has to rank with the high ones though.

I understand your point about quickness vs batspeed. It has some valdity/ usefulness in coaching for reasons we both know

Someone said " when somebody has a great swing you do not notice the body only the path of the bat. Some players are able to transfer all their energy to the striking surface of the bat by having it in the perfect orbit around the core and the barrel coming out at what appears to be the perfect time. Great swing and impeccable timing is hard to beat.

While their simple launch mechanics make them seem quicker and their effortless swing makes the ball appear to carry with less bat speed it IS possible that it is an illusion like a FP softball rising( if it is in the strike zone per MArk H) when it is not rising based on film.

Maintaining that perfect arc/angular acceleration vs drag could be proved to be faster by someone better at physics than me maybe.

Could it have to do with the fact that top bat speed somewhere during the swing is easier to measure than the actual acceleration curve at contact. And possibly a slightly faster bat speed measured at contact that is decelerating could be inferior to a slightly lessor speed that is still accelerating through contact even though the ball stays on the bat 1/2000 sec. Could happen that way technically I guess??

Many kids have the feeling that they need to help the ball out there by tugging harder on the knob( straight line hand path). Others seem to be born with the feeling that that bat tip is going to do the work and all their effort is focused on the release of the bat barrel rather than the fence.(CHP)

At the risk of "giving away the farm" the simple fact of the time between the load and the unload is what you don't get.

It's what every good hitter does. It's at the core of swing quickness. It's the ONLY way to possiblely generate quickness out of the body.

It's used in basketball, football, s****r, track, baseball. It's universal. It's very simple. It's right in front of you. It's the answer to ALL amateur hitters and most professional hitters.

Yet, the obstructionists overlook it. They go to the hands.

I can demonstrate it in 10 minutes. You can have an undersanding of it in 20 minutes.

If you learn to connect the arms to it you'll play at a very high level. That is what takes the time.

Buster

It is physically impossible to load/unload the hands and arms at the rate you can your center.

And, the act of loading the hands and arms is "in the way of" loading/unloading the center. It can't be done at the rate it needs to be done by 95% of all amateur hitters and still properly load/unload the center.

Yes, some professionals do it. And, they benefit from it. But you are in the way of their progression by teaching the arm action hitting philosophy.

Linear,

The farm you are concerned about giving away has been tilled for about the last 30 years.

There is much more to the swing than just the core.

Much much more.

That is the major problem with "the theory" - and that has been lacking from this "theory" from day 1. It is the "theory's" biggest flaw. IMO.

Richard, that post was in humor! At least I laughed when I posted it. Ego? NO ONE HAS A BIGGER ONE THAN YOU.

BLUEDOG? I defy you to find one post in the last 2 years where he and I have gotten after each other. Do we disagree? Sure! However, I think he and I agree a lot more than disagree. I truly respect what he is about.

Concerning the hands or lack thereof, I suggest to you that breaking down any baseball effort be it fielding, hitting, pitching, is the best way to enable a player to understand what they are doing. You simply suggest video and hit. Most coaches would be fired if that were their only course of action when working with their hitters. Sound familure!

More diversion. More history rewrite.

Nothing wrong with working on all parts of a swing.

But, it's a TOTAL waste of time unless and until they understand their center.

And, I'll guarantee your hitters don't.

And, you're costing them the benefits of it.

quote:

Originally posted by itsinthegame:
Linear,

The farm you are concerned about giving away has been tilled for about the last 30 years.

There is much more to the swing than just the core.

Much much more.

That is the major problem with "the theory" - and that has been lacking from this "theory" from day 1. It is the "theory's" biggest flaw. IMO.

In less than 12 hours you've slipped off the ladder and are now reaching for rung #1.

Linear,

Another demotion? LOL - I have a funny feeling that my ladder is going to be hanging from the garage wall soon.


Your description of the core - and its importance to the swing is excellent IMO. But your theory has a major flaw. That is why I have never taken it very seriously.

quote:

And, the act of loading the hands and arms is "in the way of" loading/unloading the center

Your close to what I feel...the pattern of hand and arm movement is vital for some in assuring they will load the center. Shoulders load but hands are vital nuerologically in the sequence and rythym. It is subtle. Hands ****, hips coil, bend at waist, elbow internally rotates. Your right ..the hands don't do the loading ;they help initiate the move. You don't have to kill the feel in the hands to load the upper body.

Brain talks to hands not elbow. Hands conrol the bat tip and its path initially is counter to the hip rotation and this promotes connection. Better connection is a quicker/faster bat

quote:

Originally posted by Linear:

And, I'll guarantee your hitters don't.

And, you're costing them the benefits of it.

And I guarantee you know nothing about us but that history of success you can verify.

Now, if you now type that you believe in breakdowns, what do you breakdown since you don't believe in teaching hands/arms. You now going to suggest you do? Only the base is left for you.

Sorry - added this:

I once pmed you our Hitter's Sheet. It contained a lengthy description of core and load. Rewrite history? BTW, others here who have had discussions of hitting have asked and I have shared. They can verify this handout.

The lack of emphasis - and in many cases - the complete disregard of the hands/wrists/arms - is the major flaw of the "theory".

They need to work on that critical oversight. IMO.

quote:

Originally posted by itsinthegame:
The lack of emphasis - and in many cases - the complete disregard of the hands/wrists/arms - is the major flaw of the "theory".

They need to work on that critical oversight. IMO.

While standing on that first runge, I noticed you standing there as well. We agree one hundred percent.

CoachB,

I am on the ground - again. LOL

Please do not fall on me.

Richard,

Check your PM...

David

Let me pick a non starter who could play for you if he could hit. (the no bat ss, 2B, C; the position you don't have a player for and will choose among 2 or 3)

Give me 3 months, 3 visits per week.

I bet he's in your lineup. I bet before the season is over he hits higher than 9th. Don't know your team but I bet I can get him #7 or better. And, if he's a soph I bet he leads your team in some offensive categories by the time he's a senior.

quote:

Brain talks to hands not elbow.

Yes, because the hands have ruled body actions since birth.....This is the muscle memory cycle that needs to be broken, IMO......Train the brain to ignore the hands and arms and speak to other body parts.....The hands and arms should connect to those other body parts the brain will then be speaking to.....If you are successful in doing this, a new awareness, and level, of "bat quickness" will prevail....

quote:

Originally posted by itsinthegame:
CoachB,

I am on the ground - again. LOL

Please do not fall on me.

I'm a big guy but I bounce! LOL!

I do agree that with hitting there are some factors of the swing that are "results" of the swing. Linear suggest that the hands/arms are. I believe that "finish" is a result. Players often ask me whether they should release on finish. To each their own. The ball is long been either hit or missed by that point on the swing. The factor on "finish" that are important are that belly button and balance.

quote:

It can't be done at the rate it needs to be done by 95% of all amateur hitters and still properly load/unload the center.

It is all about when you start....timing...there is not limit on when you start. They must understand and execute the move of course.

Are we saying that we are teaching something that is suboptimum because we assume they cannot do it?

Watch the bat tip of Ruth, Aaron,.....they were simply trying to do what Olerud was doing...get some pop at the bat barrel on all pitch locations....move some barrel through the zone.

***** defined bat drag I guess. It was a great observation. When his model took away all arm and hand action he made sure bat drag would be around along time. ( I am not talking about a big pump...watch Pujols, Cabrerra, Bergmon,. He defined scap load....great...now lets talk about how to scap load better because it isn't happening at the park like you say often enough and kids are dragging like crazy.

CoachB25,

Just an aside - I love the "Qualities of a Knight" intro you have on your team's website.

That is really good stuff IMO.

quote:

Originally posted by itsinthegame:
CoachB25,

Just an aside - I love the "Qualities of a Knight" intro you have on your team's website.

That is really good stuff IMO.

Thanks! I have good kids that adhear to those principles. BTW, the coaches you see there with me were former College All-Americans. I have a top notch staff of great people.

quote:

Originally posted by BlueDog:

Yes, because the hands have ruled body actions since birth.....This is the muscle memory cycle that needs to be broken, IMO......Train the brain to ignore the hands and arms and speak to other body parts.....The hands and arms should connect to those other body parts the brain will then be speaking to.....If you are successful in doing this, a new awareness, and level, of "bat quickness" will prevail....

Bluedog,

Linear mentioned that this "theory" is relevant to all sports. You seem to agree.

I would strongly suggest to you that - if you are playing football or hockey - and you "train your brain" to ignore the hands and arms - you will be knocked unconscious - quickly.

quote:

It is all about when you start....timing...

I don't think so.....IMO, it's about quickness.....May I explain....

I hear Coaches all the time say, get your hands through quicker.....This is very confusing to a hitter as they are already getting their hands through as quick as they can.....There is no quicker for them.....If they start earlier, they don't have time to recognize the pitch.....

Great hitters start their swing very late and have the quickness to get the bat around to the ball, anyway.....They do not depend on the hands and arms to do so.....The quickness they need comes from much bigger muscles.....

quote:

Originally posted by swingbuster:
... It is all about when you start....timing...there is no limit on when you start...

Well, talk about a sentence that can be interpreted 50 different ways by 50 different people.

I believe I know what you mean. I also believe most don't.

There definately is a limit to when you can start because it greatly affects the quality of the load/unload.

Not my intention to offend a “kid”. I thought I was addressing a 22-23 year old but I must be mistaken. Sorry. Hard to find “truth” and facts on the Internet sometimes.

IMO - The best analogy - as it regards this discussion - combining quickness,speed,power and accuracy would be boxing.

Having boxed for many years, I can say with absolute certainty that the "core" is the foundation.

However, deemphasizing the strength and use of the hands and arms - leads to a quick knockout - and severe bruising.

LOL

quote:

Originally posted by itsinthegame:
...I would strongly suggest to you that - if you are playing football or hockey - and you "train your brain" to ignore the hands and arms - you will be knocked unconscious - quickly.

Ladder is being walked back to the garage.

Nothing like stretching what has been said into something that doesn't exist.

quote:

Bluedog,

Linear mentioned that this "theory" is relevant to all sports. You seem to agree.

Really?.......I don't remember saying this.....I try really hard to stay on the topic of hitting since that's the only area I have spent countless number of hours researching and using trial and error to prove or disprove theory..........

Maybe you can show me where I went astray?......

Linear,

You got to fix that major flaw. You would be doing the theory a great service if you did. IMO.

The ladder has been hung up - but I am still worried about Coach B flattening me when he comes tumbling down.

quote:

Originally posted by itsinthegame:
IMO - The best analogy - as it regards this discussion - combining quickness,speed,power and accuracy would be boxing.

Having boxed for many years, I can say with absolute certainty that the "core" is the foundation.

However, deemphasizing the strength and use of the hands and arms - leads to a quick knockout - and severe bruising.

LOL

Not a bad analogy. Just not complete. You can swing at your opponent anytime you want. You don't have to swing if you don't want.

But when you have to swing your bat is dictated to you by the pitcher. Or the umpire.

Bluedog,

Sorry about that then.

Just dont teach that stuff to any kid playing a contact sport.
If you do - they will get hurt.

quote:

Bluedog:

I’m confused.

THop, good post......I agree, you are confused...

quote:

Originally posted by Linear:

Not a bad analogy. Just not complete. You can swing at your opponent anytime you want. You don't have to swing if you don't want.

But when you have to swing your bat is dictated to you by the pitcher. Or the umpire.

Linear,

I dont want to divert away from the hitting discussion - so I apologize for that analogy. Let me just say it sounds like you have never boxed.

Again - sorry for going a bit off course there - I thought the analogy might help.

It appears I've boxed as much as you've hit.

LOL

That was good!

quote:

Just dont teach that stuff to any kid playing a contact sport.
If you do - they will get hurt.

Game, diversions such as the above is exactly why your posts are most of the time meaningless.......Your post has absolutely nothing to do with anything Linear, or myself, has said on this thread.....More to the point, your post has nothing at all to do with hitting....

Bluedog,

It appears as if you arent getting it.

Read all of the stuff again - about the interaction and importance of the core and the arms/hands/wrists - and get back to me. We are all talking about that interaction - with varying perspectives.

Take your time reading it all so it sinks in.