How will you teach hitting?

Game, I see you have apologized for the diversion........

I, too, like boxing.....I consider it the purest form of sport that exists.....JMO...

quote:

We are all talking about that interaction - with varying perspectives.

Not so......We are talking about hitting....Plain and simple.....

I am thrilled that you like boxing.

Now read the stuff again - concentrate - and see if you can connect the dots.

Game, you are the only one talking about perspectives involving other sports.....You are having a conversation with yourself, as usual......

Linear - and Coaches/everyone else here,

I am enjoying the conversation. Thought provoking.
But could you please get the Bluedog to stop barking.

Where is the "arm action" in this swing?

He is different than most.

He connects differently.

But, this is mightly good rotation with connection.

Right click, choose "save target as", play it frame by frame.

There is NO arm action in this swing.

Game, as per hitting into a heavy bag......Not a good thing to do if a hitter is driving the bat into the bag with their hands and arms...But, if the driving force is the shoulders (big muscles), it is a great hitting drill.....It's all about understanding and the correct use of drills....This is the area you are deficient.....

Bluedog,

We are straying - but as far as the hitting bag goes - as I said two years ago - I think it is insane for youth players.

The risk/reward of using a 200 pound bag of sand and a bat as a training technique is crazy.

It has nothing to do with understanding a drill and everything to do with exposing youth players to serious potential injury.

quote:

Originally posted by Linear:


Where is the "arm action" in this swing?

He is different than most.

He connects differently.

But, this is mightly good rotation with connection.

Right click, choose "save target as", play it frame by frame.

There is NO arm action in this swing.

I see arm action everywhere. As well as alot of other great "actions".

I think it is something that we will never agree on - but the discussion is interesting - I think.

Its

I've detected an effort to "get along" by you.

It is appreciated.

But, you are completely wrong about the heavy bag.

Think about "throwing" the bat with out releasing it. Not that that is a good hitting cue but it will help you understand how it feels when a good swing hits the bag.

quote:

Originally posted by itsinthegame:

quote:

Originally posted by Linear:


Where is the "arm action" in this swing?

He is different than most.

He connects differently.

But, this is mightly good rotation with connection.

Right click, choose "save target as", play it frame by frame.

There is NO arm action in this swing.

I see arm action everywhere. As well as alot of other great "actions".

I think it is something that we will never agree on - but the discussion is interesting - I think.

You haven't had time to play it frame by frame. Do so. Notice where the barrel remains as the rear elbow is lowered. It did not generate ANY batspeed. It's still where it stared.

Hitting into a heavy bag also helps explain the insignificance of strong hands and/or wrists........If the big muscles are swinging the bat, the hitter feels nothing in the hands and/or wrists when the bat hits the bag.......

Linear,

You and I have gone back and forth on this one in the past.

I think it is very dangerous for youth players.

One wrong swing - and you have a serious injury.

Just not worth it - and I hope there are other, safer ways to train the swing for the young player. IMO.

Palease.

Its

I am with you regarding "hitting the bag"--- all I see in this exercise is shocking the joints and most kids prior to 16 do not have their joints solidified as yet thus "jelly" is being jolted in the joints. The body is not meant to take such blows and jolts.

These are not my thoughts but those of a ortho/sports doc who handles pro teams and was my kids sports doc as they grew up


Sorry Linear buy once again I must differ with you despite the fact you think I know "squat"=== perhaps in the year of 2006 (Year of the Old Codger) you will learn that some of old codgers know what the heck we are talking about.

Richard,

What program do you use for frame-by-frame viewing?

David

You can download Quicktime FREE from apple.com.

The right and left arrow keys will toggle the clip frame by frame.

quote:

These are not my thoughts but those of a ortho/sports doc who handles pro teams and was my kids sports doc as they grew up

Great example of how MLB hitting technique has been misunderstood for many years......The Dark Ages are over for those who want to spend the time to learn.....There is a place to learn this stuff.....It's easy to find......

Orthos repair injuries.

Why would you ask him how to swing.

Until he's spent some time training athletes all they do is guess on training issues. Educated guesses but not very good ones.

Of course, an uneducated (training wise) doctor will say "stop doing that".

Once he's learned how to do it he will say something completely different.

If you've every chopped wood you would understand how to create momentum of the axe without causing an injury when you hit the tree.

TR

The ladder. Get it out.

Linear,

For a youth athlete - "learning the swing" - the risk/reward equation of that training aid is a no go - IMO.

Let me just say - if Coach B - AND - TRhit both fall off the ladder - and onto me - I am dead.

What's a ladder?

According to Game, I guess youngsters shouldn't help their Dads chop wood.......Not with an axe, anyway.....That doggone axe stops when it hits wood....But, maybe, just maybe, if the youngster used his shoulders to power the swing of the axe instead of his wrists/hands/arms, he might just get the wood chopped, and.........Never mind, this takes some thought and theory proving....Too much thinking.....

quote:

Originally posted by BlueDog:

quote:

It is all about when you start....timing...

I don't think so.....IMO, it's about quickness.....May I explain....

I hear Coaches all the time say, get your hands through quicker.....This is very confusing to a hitter as they are already getting their hands through as quick as they can.....There is no quicker for them.....If they start earlier, they don't have time to recognize the pitch.....

Great hitters start their swing very late and have the quickness to get the bat around to the ball, anyway.....They do not depend on the hands and arms to do so.....The quickness they need comes from much bigger muscles.....

Itsinthegame, my ladder has been put up so many times that I now use a step ladder instead of an extension ladder. (LOL)

Bluedog, Agreed that statements about "get your hands quicker" is not a good analogy to use. IT promotes "casting." You might call it disconnected. Agreed that the core muscles help make the hands quicker as they stay "connected" to the core. This still doesn't explain how to get those hands "set" or ready to work in conjunction with the core. However, I understand that on hands, we will never agree. Agree on timing as well. Good hitters "let the ball get to them." Again, we drill this. Know drills aren't big in Linear's agenda but here goes ours. We place a Jugs pitching machine screen in front of a hitter. We take a plate and put a diagonal line on it from front point (batter's side) to half-plate (opposite side of plate.) Now, a tosser throws balls to positions on the plate. Inside, down the middle, and opposite. The batter works on letting the ball get to them and then hit the ball in the general area where the ball is thrown. We add cones as "targets for success." Well, that's how we drill that concept.

No theory here, just another drill that Linear will disapprove of.

Linear, those arms DO move in that clip as they move with shoulders. They don't stay fixed in one position with the body! They move forward and then the trunk joins in.

quote:

Originally posted by CoachB25:
...Know drills aren't big in Linear's agenda but here goes ours.

You're like my wife. If my son has a car accident while going to a party it's the party's fault. I'm not sure whose fault it is if he has an accident on the way to church. I have no problem with drills. I just think the drill should resemble the swing.

quote:

Linear, those arms DO move in that clip. They don't stay fixed in one position with the body! They move forward and then the body joins in.

OH MY GOD. This is completely false and proves you didn't look frame by frame.

He lowers his high elbow down by what most call the slot. I don't believe in elbow slotting so don't take this wrong. But, for those of you who do, his elbow lowers near the slot. Take the video frame by frame until you're at that spot.........The barrel hasn't moved but very very slightly. ABSOLUTELY NO SWING HAS BEGUN. He has done something very important but he hasn't begun swinging yet. NOW, look how far and how much the body rotates before the barrel ever moves from the inital or nearly initial launch point.

I want to see you duplicate that body rotation with the barrel in the spot it is for him and then swing with your arms. YOU CAN'T DO IT.

Now, wait, the other day, you said pictures are worthless when evaluating a swing. Isn't frame by frame just pictures? I don't need to see it frame by frame as you say when you 'show me the video." Look at the hands, they begin the swing before the trunk begins rotation. Now, the upper body rotates as we have said all along but those hands DO start a movement before the trunk joins in. Argue all you want on that.

Oh, the drill stuff. Again, as I posted earlier, what can you possibly drill after the core since that is all you believe in?

Bluedog,

Let me keep it simple for you - because you are getting all tangled up.

Swinging an object at another immovable object will damage your joints. If you want to chop wood for 20 years - be my guest. Your joints will be messed up when all is said and done. Even if you do it perfectly - your joints will be damaged.

Swinging a baseball bat into a 200 pound bag of sand is a recipe for disaster.

It isnt very complicated - and most people dont have to think about this for very long.

quote:

Originally posted by CoachB25:
...I don't need to see it frame by frame

Watching a still picture is worthless. Watching still frames advance one by one is priceless.

You are unbelievable. We need to continue this discussion. Maybe a parent or administrator in your area will witness this.

quote:

Originally posted by itsinthegame:
Bluedog,

Let me keep it simple for you - because you are getting all tangled up.

Swinging an object at another immovable object will damage your joints. If you want to chop wood for 20 years - be my guest. Your joints will be messed up when all is said and done. Even if you do it perfectly - your joints will be damaged.

Swinging a baseball bat into a 200 pound bag of sand is a recipe for disaster.

It isnt very complicated - and most people dont have to think about this for very long.

TRANSLATION:

I have my belief and no facts will change my mind.

quote:

Originally posted by CoachB25:
Look at the hands, they begin the swing before the trunk begins rotation...

I love it when I win.

Of course, I don't have any trophies to show for it. I'm too involved helping kids be better while the "lineup card maker outer" is filling his mantle.

The hands are virutally stationery when the rotation begins and they remain so for a couple of frames after rotation. I count 5 frames of rotation before the hands do anything.

Linear,

When I see a fact that proves to me that slamming a bat into a 200 pound bag of sand is safe - I will reconsider.

Until such time - it is a no go for youth players IMO.



And tell Bluedog - Axe analogies wont cut it. (no pun intended)

quote:

Originally posted by Linear:

quote:

Originally posted by CoachB25:
...I don't need to see it frame by frame

Maybe a parent or administrator in your area will witness this.

And everyone said you didn't have a sense of humor. They interest have one thing in common. They like winning 24 games/year. Of course, you could always come over an apply. So, thus far in this discussion, I've listed drills we do and you've listed nothing. Drills Teacherman Drills?

B25? Where'd you go?

I'll decline even if they offer it to me. I can't afford it.

But, you better learn to study video.

Pay attention to what that center does before the hands do anything.

I can give you some "center drills" if you'd like.

I will agree to hold the ladder up for Coach B - for $12 per hour. Plus travel expenses.

quote:

Originally posted by CoachB25:
...Drills Teacherman Drills?

There you are.

Coy attempt at changing the subject to look better?

Show me where Pujols hands are moving prior to rotation. Please.

CoachB25

Did you expect the two _"I GOT ALL THE ANSWERS, I AM NEVER WRONG" guys, Linear and Blue Dog to give examples ?--- they have none--they just regurgitate from their GURU and his "TEACHING SITE"

Coach -- a happy new year to you and your family

I will also agree to hold TRHit's ladder up - for slightly less - but only because I know him for so long.

quote:

Originally posted by TRhit:
CoachB25

Did you expect the two _"I GOT ALL THE ANSWERS, I AM NEVER WRONG" guys, Linear and Blue Dog to give examples ?--- they have none--they just regurgitate from their GURU and his "TEACHING SITE"

Coach -- a happy new year to you and your family

I was just informed TR doesn't even own a ladder.

Linear - this isnt shaping up very well. IMO.

Coach B is on rung #1 - and falling.

I have fallen off the ladder - and am laying on the ground - about to be crushed.

And TR doesnt even have a ladder.

I fear we need a quick trip to Home Depot and a pickup truck.

quote:

Originally posted by Linear:
B25? Where'd you go?

I'll decline even if they offer it to me. I can't afford it.

But, you better learn to study video.

Pay attention to what that center does before the hands do anything.

I can give you some "center drills" if you'd like.

Guys, I don't need anyone to hold my ladder up. It now is down to two steps and a jump.

Where'd I go. I'm trying to corrupt kids in my classroom by teaching the Civil War. In other words, I'm doing my lesson plans for the next 2 weeks. Here we have to turn them in. NO fly by night stuff here. Still, I'm going to let the North win again. Just as I thought though no interest in really doing the job. Theory v reality. You are entertaining though. You are the master of the redirection. I've requested several times for you to address issues on hitting and yet, you seem to be the one changing directions. Drills?