HS coach won't play son

Sorry for replying to such an old post but as I google searched this topic I was interested by what everyone said. There was some good advice given and I hope it worked out for the player involved. With that being said my son struggles to get playing time also. He is currently 5'8" 165. He is strong and athletic. He squats 350, benches 150, runs the 60 in 7.4 possibly less now and a time to first in 4.2. His running was clocked by hand at a college scouting clinic. He has above average bat speed and other batting matrix numbers for his grade level. Numbers also taken at the clinic. He throws 76 in the field and 72 on the mound. He can pitch, catch and play outfield. His best position is CF. He has been at the top of his roster every year from 8-14 on travel teams. He started at Single A and as we saw him being the best on the teams we moved him up until he reach a low major team with really good players, but the team was weak on elite pitchers. He leads the team on offense as a leadoff batter and only had 1 error in the outfield after 40 games. He made the freshmen team at 13 in the 8th grade. He had the best tryout I have ever seen him have. He out ran everyone, had great catches and throws and hit the ball to the fence while others barely out of the infield. I noticed quickly that most kids trying out were from Dixie Boys Rec league and not travel ball. I could go on for hours so if you have a question please ask. So 4 8th grade kids made JV. My son started batting last as a DH on the freshman team. By the end of the year he was a DH batting forth and leading the team in overall offense. (Avg,Runs,RBI,Walks, Steals,ect) He rarely ever played in the field. While other less quality batters played were ever they wanted. My son was also never allowed to pitch in a game only scrimmages which he did very well striking out or getting ground outs from the JV team. If ever there was a sub to be made he was the first one pulled every time. The last 4 games were also played with 3 of the 8th grade JV players who could not hang with JV. When they brought them down they took my son's batting opportunities. None of the 3 even batted over .200 while on the Freshman team (He batted a low .400). At the end of the year he was passed up for an award as offensive player of the year. The winner had an average 15 points higher and a higher slugging percentage, my son surpassed him in all other categories and batted less often.  Next year my son has a good tryout almost as good as last year. He was out ran by one other kid if that matters. He made JV yay! He started again DH batting 9th. He is now DH batting 2nd with 2 innings in the outfield out of 11 games and 6 were blowouts we won.  He is currently leading in offense again and in the top 3 in all categories for hitting, stealing and so forth. Two of his team mates that he bats better than have been called up to Varsity. We know the coach does not like him, he said so and its the same coach this year. My son is afraid that he might have him a 3rd year if he stays on JV for a 2nd year. This coach really gets in his head and the game is no longer as fun. please give some advice and ask any question you like. My son would like to transfer to a new school or only play showcase ball the rest of high school. People say to hang in there and be tough but how much is too much if you strive and do your best and their really is nothing to look forward to in HS baseball except when its over you can go play with a better team and coach that appreciates you and encourages you. Input?

Input.....oh dear....my input would be that if he likes practicing with his friends it doesn't matter if he's IN the games.  Sometimes life isn't fair, that's true.  Your choice to stick it out or not. Play only travel ball or not.  For now I would tell him to talk to the coach about how he could get up to Varsity, and I would leave out ALL mention of who he is better than, and just ask for advice to improve.

BBDAD98 posted:

Sorry for replying to such an old post but as I google searched this topic I was interested by what everyone said. There was some good advice given and I hope it worked out for the player involved. With that being said my son struggles to get playing time also. He is currently 5'8" 165. He is strong and athletic. He squats 350, benches 150, runs the 60 in 7.4 possibly less now and a time to first in 4.2. His running was clocked by hand at a college scouting clinic. He has above average bat speed and other batting matrix numbers for his grade level. Numbers also taken at the clinic. He throws 76 in the field and 72 on the mound. He can pitch, catch and play outfield. His best position is CF. He has been at the top of his roster every year from 8-14 on travel teams. He started at Single A and as we saw him being the best on the teams we moved him up until he reach a low major team with really good players, but the team was weak on elite pitchers. He leads the team on offense as a leadoff batter and only had 1 error in the outfield after 40 games. He made the freshmen team at 13 in the 8th grade. He had the best tryout I have ever seen him have. He out ran everyone, had great catches and throws and hit the ball to the fence while others barely out of the infield. I noticed quickly that most kids trying out were from Dixie Boys Rec league and not travel ball. I could go on for hours so if you have a question please ask. So 4 8th grade kids made JV. My son started batting last as a DH on the freshman team. By the end of the year he was a DH batting forth and leading the team in overall offense. (Avg,Runs,RBI,Walks, Steals,ect) He rarely ever played in the field. While other less quality batters played were ever they wanted. My son was also never allowed to pitch in a game only scrimmages which he did very well striking out or getting ground outs from the JV team. If ever there was a sub to be made he was the first one pulled every time. The last 4 games were also played with 3 of the 8th grade JV players who could not hang with JV. When they brought them down they took my son's batting opportunities. None of the 3 even batted over .200 while on the Freshman team (He batted a low .400). At the end of the year he was passed up for an award as offensive player of the year. The winner had an average 15 points higher and a higher slugging percentage, my son surpassed him in all other categories and batted less often.  Next year my son has a good tryout almost as good as last year. He was out ran by one other kid if that matters. He made JV yay! He started again DH batting 9th. He is now DH batting 2nd with 2 innings in the outfield out of 11 games and 6 were blowouts we won.  He is currently leading in offense again and in the top 3 in all categories for hitting, stealing and so forth. Two of his team mates that he bats better than have been called up to Varsity. We know the coach does not like him, he said so and its the same coach this year. My son is afraid that he might have him a 3rd year if he stays on JV for a 2nd year. This coach really gets in his head and the game is no longer as fun. please give some advice and ask any question you like. My son would like to transfer to a new school or only play showcase ball the rest of high school. People say to hang in there and be tough but how much is too much if you strive and do your best and their really is nothing to look forward to in HS baseball except when its over you can go play with a better team and coach that appreciates you and encourages you. Input?

Your son starts every game.  What exactly are you concerned about?  What grade is he in and what level is he playing?  

The simple answer to the playing time riddle is that Coaches play kids that they believe can help them win. Period. This applies not only at the HS level but also college .

That being said , if a kid in fact believes he can help his team win and the Coach sees it differently , the player ( never the parent ) needs to speak to the coach . He needs to be direct and ask the Coach what it's gonna take for him to play or move up to Varsity in this case. At this point most coaches are pretty straight forward in explaining to a player what he needs to do or what the coach needs from him to advance .

It's pretty simple. But most HS kids are afraid to approach the coach. That is sort of a developmental thing at that age. But if he's truly unhappy or unclear about his role or future he needs to start there.

Don't let your son or yourself get caught up in the age old excuse of 'The Coach just doesn't like me' . That is a mistake and will just cloud your judgment . Because it's irrelevant. Remember , HS Coaches play the kids that can help them win. Period. They have 16-21 guys on Varsity , of those 16-21 guys , sure there may be a couple kids he likes personally more than others and occasionally a dislike and more often than not indifference towards some players, but it will rarely change how he makes out his line up card.

A bad student, bad attitude jerk that touches 88-90 mph will pitch at the HS level regardless of the coaches personal opinion of him. Don't forget that.

Have your son talk to the coach about what it's gonna take to advance in the program. After the meeting sit down with your son and put together a plan to accomplish those goals. Then have him go back to the coach once your son has improved in those areas and Hold the coach to his word.

Whenever I see comments like, “He had the best tryout I’ve ever seen” I become real skeptical about the parent’s objectivity and ability to judge the overall situation.

Welcome to the site, BBdad.  

You said... "We know the coach does not like him, he said so and its the same coach this year."

Based on the abundance of other information you provided, it is likely not his playing ability that the coach doesn't like.  So, what is it?  I don't know your son's situation or if any of what I am about to share applies.  But in my experience, your son is probably very aware of what the issues are.  And, those issues are very likely to be the same that cause the next coach to not like him as well.  And, assuming I am the least bit on the right track, he needs to face up to those issues and fix them.  He needs to share with the coach that he recognizes them and is addressing them and then he needs to do it.

I head up a decent program and coach V.  I oversee the entire program before we split off.  We have a handful of juniors that are still playing JV this year.  Generally, it is not due to their lack of talent.  Last night, we took advantage of a rain night and I conducted a hitting discussion for the JV group so that they all know the program way and so that they have a clear path toward continued improvement.  Toward the end of the discussion, I had to kick two players out of the meeting.  They were two of the juniors.  It was no real surprise.  They don't lack talent.  They were doing what they do that dictates why they are still on JV.  They comply just enough to stay in the program but don't care sufficiently to address the issues that prevent them from being a part of the next level in the program.

Again, I have no idea how much of this applies to your son.  

I also see that you have been involved in coaching previously and I see that you have quite a depth of statistical info on your son as well as exactly how his numbers compare to others on the team/in the program.  I suspect this won't go over well but my suggestion is that you let go of this, at least to a large extent.  The way you are using the comp numbers is not healthy or productive for your son.  Don't look for reasons he should be "in".  HE should be looking for reasons he is "out" and working toward eliminating those.  He should be working toward being the player the coach wants in the lineup, on the field and in the dugout as a teammate and he should have the goal of leaving no doubt with all three... regardless of who the coach is.

You found a site that can be a treasure trove of information and direction for you both.  I hope my "less than rosy" message doesn't scare you away from using it to the fullest.

It doesn't matter, tell him to continue to improve/get better. The situation may seem as a setback but it's a big character builder..........find the positives and forge ahead. Be the best teammate, best ball shagger, the best __(insert)___________................control his attitude and effort. The pieces will fall where they fall as you can't control others and the decisions they make.

I will continue to repeat, attitude and effort! It's very difficult to turn away a player that has a good attitude and works his tail off.

Don't compare other players tools, attributes, ect. It's irrelevant to your sons development as a person and a player. Be consistent working on his own game, energy focused for ONE second on another player is time away from his own improvement.

By taking ownership in his own journey, not blaming others and really focusing on the things he can control, that being attitude and effort.

StrainedOblique posted:

... Remember , HS Coaches play the kids that can help them win. Period. ..

A bad student, bad attitude jerk that touches 88-90 mph will pitch at the HS level regardless of the coaches personal opinion of him. Don't forget that.

....

I am almost always in agreement with Strained and his perspective.  However, as it applies to this particular OP, I have to disagree.  In our last game, I was put in a position to remove our best player about two minutes before first pitch.  He definitely could have helped us win.  There was a bigger message that he needed to understand.  It was made clear to him that he would not be entered back into our lineup until he showed that he did understand even if that meant the rest of the season and even if that meant we lose every game along the way.

cabbagedad posted:

StrainedOblique posted:

... Remember , HS Coaches play the kids that can help them win. Period. ..

A bad student, bad attitude jerk that touches 88-90 mph will pitch at the HS level regardless of the coaches personal opinion of him. Don't forget that.

....

I am almost always in agreement with Strained and his perspective.  However, as it applies to this particular OP, I have to disagree.  In our last game, I was put in a position to remove our best player about two minutes before first pitch.  He definitely could have helped us win.  There was a bigger message that he needed to understand.  It was made clear to him that he would not be entered back into our lineup until he showed that he did understand even if that meant the rest of the season and even if that meant we lose every game along the way.

You're correct cabbagedad. A good coach that's trying to develop not only a baseball player , but a responsible young man is going to take exception to that rule. Regardless of a players on field talent.

My comment was intended to illustrate a broader point about playing time . And I didn't include or factor in the demands of a High character Coach.

My son was a Top player in HS at a infamous West Coast program w/ a legendary coach. This coach was concerned about developing young men. And in the process Developed a USA Today HS baseball top 25 program

Son, wanted to go to Coachella music festival senior year ( During Season) . He asked the coach if he could miss a Saturday non-league game. Coach said ' Sure if that's what you want to do.

Son played Friday game . Left afterwards for festival missed Saturday , returned from Coachella and following Wed game was BENCHED.

When son asked coach about it , he said ' Coach I talked to you about going and missing a game , why did you bench me ?"  Coach said " That is correct. You did talk talk to me. And you asked me about missing the game and outlined your whole plan and I told you , You can do whatever you want to do. But you never asked my permission . You just dictated to me what your intention was , Without any solicitation of my opinion or how your actions would effect the team.....So, you'll sit and think about all that today"

cabbagedad posted:

StrainedOblique posted:

... Remember , HS Coaches play the kids that can help them win. Period. ..

A bad student, bad attitude jerk that touches 88-90 mph will pitch at the HS level regardless of the coaches personal opinion of him. Don't forget that.

....

I am almost always in agreement with Strained and his perspective.  However, as it applies to this particular OP, I have to disagree.  In our last game, I was put in a position to remove our best player about two minutes before first pitch.  He definitely could have helped us win.  There was a bigger message that he needed to understand.  It was made clear to him that he would not be entered back into our lineup until he showed that he did understand even if that meant the rest of the season and even if that meant we lose every game along the way.

Our HS team's best player(D1 SS, yada, yada) decided to not leg out a ground ball early in the 1st inning of a game. Coach yanked him.

  That's what you call sending a message that was heard up and down the dugout, not just by the player in question.

BBDAD98.  I'll just say this out loud.  Throwing velo 76 mph is not quite starting varsity CF in many high schools.  Sounds like he's getting to hit, so that's a plus -- hitting is the fun part.   

Thanks guys I will try to clear things up. My son is 14 in the 9th grade playing JV and yes he starts most games but not all games. I do have an extensive stat history from game changer because all of his teams have used that app. The numbers in my comments were not really to brag or compare but only to show that my son is not just gifted or talented he is a hard worker and he rises to the top of the skill level he plays with. If he sees someone working hard, hitting hard, running fast or whatever he sets out to be that good and better. Thats his thing, I don't have to push him in practicing or working hard, that is fun to him. He likes chasing after and passing others, but he is still tired of after he does good he gets sat or has to start at the bottom. He is small but not the smallest by a few other guys, the smallest gets to play and not produce. Its not about moving to Varsity either, he knows he wouldn't play, they don't let him hit the field in JV. Just saying that some guys moved up and play now. We even had a PO prove himself with a few at bats and now he bats 4th or 5th and now plays outfield when not pitching. He is not very good at RF, but anyway. I am happy for him he hits well. When will my son prove he can play the field. To answer the other remarks. He has approached the coach. The coach told him he didnt like him because of his attitude last year. More on that later. In the same conversation he told him that this year his attitude was good and he could tell he was working hard and hustling, and would give him a chance to take someones position on the field. Never happened by the way. Last year my son was the backup catcher for a few games. He could not throw anyone out like he had been in travel ball so he asked the coach he the pitchers could deliver the pitch faster (not such a slow high leg lift) coach just looked at him. Later on more than one occasions he would be batting and the runner would not steal when given the sign so he would take a first pitch strike for no reason. So he asked the coach to talk to them. Coach did nothing. My son was on first and got the steal sign( he steals a lot of bases 5 last night) the batter hits the ball foul or line drives into a dp. My son was mad. Coach does nothing. My son was catching, throws down to 2nd no one was there, he yells at the middle guys to talk and get it together. Coach did not approve and said it was his job to do the coaching. This coach is 2 years out of HS if that matters to anyone. So the coach does not like him. My son was very angry from that game forward. He lets it go now and says nothing until summer ball. At the end of last year at his review he has told about his attitude and poor fielding. What fielding he hardly play the field ever. He was told he had the most potential as a hitter on the whole team. They told him to hit the gym. That summer he did. He asked about pitching and they responded they didn't know he pitched. Are you kidding me they wrote notes about him and used the radar gun. If they don't like his pitching fine, but don't lie or be incompetent enough to not know someone pitches please. They struggled to have enough pitchers all year with the new pitch count rule. Input? Am I crazy?

My son takes honors classes and makes AB honor roll and is never in trouble at school. 90 percent of his team is bear crawling after practice for grades or behavior. I ask him all the time how he got done so fast and he says he is not introuble like the rest of them.

BBDAD98 - from what you wrote, it sounds like your kid has attitude issues and needs to learn to keep his mouth shut, especially for a Freshman playing JV.  Probably just maturity issues that he'll grow out of, but coaches these days have to deal with tons of players with entitlement issues and your son is not doing himself any favors by acting like that.

It sounds like your kid likes the game and wants to succeed. That is good because it takes a lot of time, work, bp, infield, bullpens, lifting, plyos, speedwork... etc  to get to be a good HS player. Right now the numbers you posted are decent for his age but not a definite starter on the Varsity level. My opinion would be to put the coaches decisions out of his mind right now and just work on getting better. Work hard on baseball everything. Use his opportunities to show he is making progress. If he is not progressing like he thinks he should reassess how he is doing it and keep working hard. He is going to have to get to a higher level to be a definite Varsity player. Until he gets to that level you are going to drive yourself crazy having the my kid is better he should have this or that mindset.

Guys i am not suggesting he could start or deserves Varsity. His fielding and batting suffer at the HS practice. No fielding hurts and in BP he comes home with bad habits and we go to his club cage and fix them. He had an altitude even though he was correct. He no longer says anything. Last year he was told to not cheer or chant, so he just high fives now. Thanks

At the beginning of each year the coach tells everyone if you want to play you must hit. Don't come asking for playing time, just hit. So if your hitting what next?

Ok...

Coaches will side with the coaches, parents who are just parents and never really played the game will defend their kids til the day is long. Not one person has seen your kid play so its all relative. Let me tell you what is going on at our school. Private, Catholic with great athletes. Up until last year, never missed D1 playoffs.

Our coach is in his second year. Got his position after two years of being the pitching coach under the former coach who, by all means, was a baseball guy. Not a people person but knew baseball. College coaching technique and his players got to college and played right away. Because he was tough and his baseball technique did not translate to all players, a few parents were miffed. Guess who became buddies with those folks?  The assistants.  Yup, the pitching coach who is now the head coach.  Guess who started feeding the AD info about the head coach and all the parents complaints without naming parents names and adding his personal views on the program? You got it. Flash to two years later and one mistake by the Head Coach with a Phys Ed class (unrelated to baseball) and who is terminated? You guessed it, the head baseball coach. Who is hired? Coach Judas himself.

Coach Judas steps in and softens up the program just the like parents want. We have 5 D1 commits and several kids getting ready to commit. First thing out of his mouth after cuts were made? "Starting today, if you are part of this program, there will be no more outside lessons, nor more club/travel ball and all interaction with colleges will now go through my office!"  My son, the future Marc Cuban, and definitely NOT a pitcher and has never worked with this guy, is the first one to respond, "Well I am getting ready to commit in a few weeks, so I would think that I, and others in the same boat are exempt from that plan? And, I have plans to go to Jupiter with my Club team in October because as a 4-year player, that is the ultimate honor by the organization I am with." Judas looked at him with the most evil eyes and said, "We'll see about that." There was never a problem to my knowledge from then on. They got along fine. Son has been a leader as a Junior and the team has been fun.

The season started off well. Through 8 games, the team was 6-2 and 2-0 in league and going into the second game of a double-header on a Saturday. My son was hitting .525 and had 3 doubles and 2 triples on the season. The coach pulled my son over prior to game 2 and said, "I am going to sit you and play Jack the second game. Give you some rest. It will boost Jack's confidence for later just in case we need him down the road." My son thought that was a great idea. Because he loved his teammate he said, "100% behind that, Coach!"

Four games later my son has yet to see the field since that Saturday. The team is 0 and 4. They have scored 3 runs in 4 games and Jack has started every game since. Jack has 12 at bats. 10 Ks. He is hitting .000. A year ago my son would have been losing his mind, paranoid, biting his nails and sitting at the coach's door the next morning at 6:00 am. Now he doesn't see things that way anymore. You might say, "Sure, he is getting ready to commit so he is fine". The commitment thing didn't happen until he went through this change over last summer after being diagnosed with a learning disorder called APD.  But that is besides the point. My point is that he realized that things are just out of your control when someone in control is taking away something with no explanation. The way he looks at it is, "Man, I want to win, I see my boys hurting, Jack is struggling, and what is Coach trying to teach me/us here?"  Well, he says it like a teenager would say it and I don't help the matter by calling the coach an <insert expletive> moron but we just laugh. But, I would recommend for all baseball players to look into a technique called "mindfullness" as way relax prior to games and after (also for tests and relaxation in general). UCLA has implemented this in their program and they are moving up the D1 ranks slowly but surely this year! Schools across the country as well as business are adopting it.

I have read some of the great responses on here written by coaches. Man do I wish I could print them all out, take them and go pick a team right now. But there are a lot of former pro and collegiate ball players that have convinced themselves they are good coaches that do a terrible job at the high school level. Coaching teenagers is tough. Getting their respect takes time and you can lose it in an instant. It requires the ability to be cool and tough but subtle enough that the young men are still the focus, not the coach. In the case of my son's coach, there really isn't much hope. My wife and I used to enjoy going to his games to relax after a long day at work. My son has asked us to enjoy ourselves somewhere else. He said that other parents aren't coming anymore and he doesn't want us to be there alone. He will tell us when it was fun again. He thinks the coach will have to change sooner or later.

Today my son plays the #1 team in the nation. He wasn't worried about winning, losing or even playing. He was just stoked to be going to their stadium for one last game. As he was was leaving, he said" Dad, I wont forget to say hi to Mr. XX (father from the opposing team) he misses seeing you, you know!". I said, "He enjoys seeing you better. If you have time after the game, please get photos of you and your friends on the other team. We may not see them for a while." It reminded me that just because a bad coach, that no one else knows anything about, can bench for a game or two, he can never take the years of memories, fun times and friendships you have made along the way.  Just stay positive, work hard, good things will happen.  There is plenty of time.

Oh my!  Please reflect on how you might be influencing your son's behavior.  Be thankful he can hit so well.  At this point, that is his saving grace.  The best thing for both of you at this point is to erase all opinions about what anyone else is doing on or off the field.  Zero judgement of decisions, quality of play, quality of student, or quality of coach.  Realize you can only control what you can control.  Your effort and your attitude.  Focus 100% on your attitude and your effort AND do not concern yourself about anyone else.  

Do not talk to other parents about your opinion.  Do not talk to your son about your opinion of other players or coaches.  Only provide support and direction for attitude and effort.  

BBDAD98 posted:

Thanks guys I will try to clear things up. My son is 14 in the 9th grade playing JV and yes he starts most games but not all games. I do have an extensive stat history from game changer because all of his teams have used that app. The numbers in my comments were not really to brag or compare but only to show that my son is not just gifted or talented he is a hard worker and he rises to the top of the skill level he plays with. If he sees someone working hard, hitting hard, running fast or whatever he sets out to be that good and better. Thats his thing, I don't have to push him in practicing or working hard, that is fun to him. He likes chasing after and passing others, but he is still tired of after he does good he gets sat or has to start at the bottom.

OK, yes, you have cleared some things up and it sounds like your son has many admirable attributes.  And he also knows what the issues are as we suspected.  So, this could be an easier problem to solve.  He needs to realize that there will always be hurdles and obstacles.  It isn't always going to be an exact "OK, I'm doing better at this, now i should get everything I think I have coming to me".  There are lots of moving pieces.  The coach has 16 or however many other players hopefully trying to make the same necessary improvements and trying to earn the same additional playing time.  Also, this is JV, there are development elements involved.  Best players are going to sit sometimes or play out of position so that others can get their shot.  Coaches are not going to see each player through the rose colored glasses we parents see our own kids with.  He has to put in the work to be in position to take advantage of the opportunity when it presents itself, not when he thinks he deserves it.

He is small but not the smallest by a few other guys, the smallest gets to play and not produce. Its not about moving to Varsity either, he knows he wouldn't play, they don't let him hit the field in JV. Just saying that some guys moved up and play now. We even had a PO prove himself with a few at bats and now he bats 4th or 5th and now plays outfield when not pitching. He is not very good at RF, but anyway. I am happy for him he hits well. When will my son prove he can play the field.

The comparisons are OK to use as general reference but again, there are many moving parts that you as the parent will never fully see.  Again, his goal should be to work to the point of excelling and leaving no doubt.  It sounds like part of his "attitude problem" is that he is doing those comparisons and being disgruntled because those decisions aren't going his way.  Again, don't be the enabler to this mentality.  

To answer the other remarks. He has approached the coach. The coach told him he didnt like him because of his attitude last year. More on that later. In the same conversation he told him that this year his attitude was good and he could tell he was working hard and hustling, and would give him a chance to take someones position on the field. Never happened by the way.

Again, don't expect things to happen in perfect order... lots of other moving parts and other players hopefully striving for the same opportunity.  And the "take someones position" means that the someone would have to clearly demonstrate that they are willing to give that position up.

Last year my son was the backup catcher for a few games. He could not throw anyone out like he had been in travel ball so he asked the coach he the pitchers could deliver the pitch faster (not such a slow high leg lift) coach just looked at him. Later on more than one occasions he would be batting and the runner would not steal when given the sign so he would take a first pitch strike for no reason. So he asked the coach to talk to them. Coach did nothing. My son was on first and got the steal sign( he steals a lot of bases 5 last night) the batter hits the ball foul or line drives into a dp. My son was mad. Coach does nothing. My son was catching, throws down to 2nd no one was there, he yells at the middle guys to talk and get it together. Coach did not approve and said it was his job to do the coaching. This coach is 2 years out of HS if that matters to anyone. So the coach does not like him. My son was very angry from that game forward.

Look, sure it can be a factor that the coach is 2 years out of HS.  But it is about perspective and expectations.  A coach that played V in HS and is two years beyond will certainly have some limitations but will also certainly know more than a 14 y.o. kid in JV in most areas.  Son should be latching on to all the positives this coach brings.  Every coach will have positives and negatives.  Which does son fixate on and why?  There are also a lot of advantages to having a young guy and it is not uncommon at sub-varsity levels.  To be honest, I wouldn't be happy with your kid either.  It's great that he recognizes game situations and wishes for the team to improve and do the right thing.  But, in some of those situations, he is also to blame (76 mph tops throwdown isn't helping the pitcher any so he should work on improving himself).  In other situations, it probably isn't his place to say and/or the coach is already very aware.  In other situations, there may be other reasons.  For example, while I am very aware that most programs have their hitters sacrifice themselves on a steal, we do not do that in our program.  We let our hitters hit when we steal... so nothing for the runner to be mad at if there is a double play or foul ball.  Furthermore, if he is giving himself up the traditional way, he should be swinging late at that pitch to protect the runner, not taking it.  And if he is using that as his excuse for what happens in his AB after that, I am all over him.  All this telling the coach to have the other players do better... NOOOOO!!!  SUPPORT AND ENCOURAGE YOUR TEAMMATES.  DON'T THROW THEM UNDER THE BUS !!!!  Then, when your kid subsequently shows he is angry at his teammates and his coach while playing, that is a big attitude issue, no matter how warranted the reason.

He lets it go now and says nothing until summer ball. At the end of last year at his review he has told about his attitude and poor fielding. What fielding he hardly play the field ever.

Are you telling me he doesn't get ample defensive reps in practice?  This is where many of the position decisions are made.  Do you see all these practice reps that the coach/es see?  (I hope not)

He was told he had the most potential as a hitter on the whole team. They told him to hit the gym. That summer he did. He asked about pitching and they responded they didn't know he pitched. Are you kidding me they wrote notes about him and used the radar gun. If they don't like his pitching fine, but don't lie or be incompetent enough to not know someone pitches please.

By the time they reach HS, most kids are or have been pitchers.  There is nothing you have described that would have him standing out significantly from others to make the coaches specifically recall him as a pitcher even if they gunned him.  We time all of our runners on occasion.  I can identify those that stood out either good or bad but probably won't recall much about those in the middle.  It sounds like more and more opportunities are coming his way but both you and him are taking a skeptical, negative perspective, which is exactly what coaches don't like.

Input? Am I crazy?

Beyond that, no, you are not crazy.  You and your son are dealing with the typical issues that come up as kids start to head further into becoming young adults.  None of us handle it perfectly.  Much of the feedback you will get here is an effort to help others avoid the same mistakes we made before you.

Attitude problems?  Yes.

"my son was the backup catcher .... He could not throw anyone out .... so he asked the coach if the pitchers could deliver the pitch faster...."

"on more than one occasions he would be batting and the runner would not steal when given the sign so he would take a first pitch strike for no reason. So he asked the coach to talk to them. "

"My son was on first and got the steal sign... the batter hits the ball foul or line drives into a dp. My son was mad. "

"My son was catching, throws down to 2nd no one was there, he yells at the middle guys to talk and get it together." 

"My son was very angry from that game forward."

To the last few comments thanks guys i like the other point of view, even If we don't agree. I know you would need to be in my sons and coaches shoes to fully see where something is wrong. During travel ball the catcher runs the infield and talks to the middle guys, who has the bag, talks to the pitcher about how to get the next guy out. So it did not seem uncommon. My sons arm speed is what it is. Is it great? no. Was his velo faster than others that catch, pitch, ss, and centerfield? Yes some. He was still able to throw kids out in travel on the same size fields 60-90. None of our catchers could throw anyone out at 2nd. My son was trying to make an adjustment. Did he end up with an attitude? Yes. Did he start with one? No? Was his attitude not wise? No it wasn't. He trys to help the pitchers and batters. They ask him for advice. They have not gone to other professional coaches so they have no clue what other methods or tips there are. They ask him how does he hit so hard. He uses his hips. My son did not earn his 2nd batting spot until the starting SS who went up to Varsity last week ask the coach on 3 different occasions in front of the dugout to please let my son have his spot sense he was hitting .125 and my son was hitting .500. The coach makes the team aware of these stats to the players. And has anounced that my son was leading the offense. I guess what I'm saying is HS Baseball sucks for my son and some others. Even our star players that play all the time have told their parents from the dugout that the coach is messing up. Please believe me my son has worked on his attitude and does not say those things to me in a ugly way, but the situation is draining him. And I know most people are thinking poor pitiful brat. He is not a bad kid and is mature for his age. He does not hang around the goofing off players only the ones who are trying to improve and not worried about making sniper rifles out of tape, bats, and Gatorade cups. Can we ever come together and say that an adult has a bad attitude and maybe wrong. I fit the bill sometimes how about you guys? I'm not always right, sometimes my kids are. My son studies baseball and he teaches me things and has deep conversations with his none HS coaches. Right now he can't wait to be done. He opted out of playing travel fall ball last year and did Soccer with his classmates on a select team. He had a blast and they won a championship. He had never played before and got a lot of playing time for his speed and he scored a handful of goals. It got his mind off of HS baseball. But I know he loves Baseball more and he say the same. Thanks

Some mentioned that nothing that i have mention before made my son stand out as a good pitcher. Fair enough. He had the fourth fastest velo on the freshman team last year. They told him that. I get thats not enough. The other kids were already 5'11"- 6'2" and he was 5'7" and he will never be 6 foot most likely. What he was taught by his pitching coach what seems to be good mechanics that he can repeat and pound the strike zone with a 4 seam, 2 seam, nasty changeup and a slider still improving on. We have 2 strong pitchers that get good results but throw a lot of pitches, 70 in 3 innings, and the other 3 can't find the strike zone and have walked 10 in 10 innings. When my son pitches in the scrimmages he has 3 up 3 down and 3-9 pitch innings against the varsity now and JV last year. Is he elite? No. Does he throw heat past you? No. Does he strike you out or make you hit ground balls middle to left side? Yes. Will he have a pitching career? Never, unless he can find 90+. He will get stronger, i just don't see 90 in his future. But I tell you what it sure would be fun for him to pitch now while he has something to give to pitching. He most likely want have the tools to go far after these last two years. Just saying.

BBDAD98 posted:

Last year my son was the backup catcher for a few games. He could not throw anyone out like he had been in travel ball so he asked the coach he the pitchers could deliver the pitch faster (not such a slow high leg lift) coach just looked at him. 

I'll say more later, but frankly this "killed" your son't chances.  If you're a catcher, it's your fault (even if it isn't).  Protect your pitchers.  Period.  End.  

Your right as a coach I worry about my pitches feelings over getting the runners out. SMH. Serously you are right, everything was his fault. The curve balls that went behind the batters back to the back stop, totally his fault. His catching coach at the club even told him it would be before the season started. My son was not ready for that much blame. Someone mentioned if my son took fielding practice. Last year i went to most practices sence they were an hour and a half and it was 30 minutes home. Last year he stood next to the coach and gave him balls as he hit them. He went to the OF once, no lie got one fly ball and dropped it, never a 2nd chance. He got 3 ground balls at SS and did a good job. They never practiced catchers, ever. The pitchers never threw a bullpen last year. We had 19 kids on the team, a couple POs and some kids were so bad they never played at all once they had a shot, but you could see at practice and tryouts they didn't have it. This year's fielding practice is much improved. He gets 5 ground balls in outfield and 5 fly balls as well. He has done well sense I have been hitting him fly balls on all of his off days, so that he stays good so he will not drop another in front of the coach.

BBDAD98 posted:

Your right as a coach I worry about my pitches feelings over getting the runners out. SMH. Serously you are right, everything was his fault. The curve balls that went behind the batters back to the back stop, totally his fault. His catching coach at the club even told him it would be before the season started. My son was not ready for that much blame. Someone mentioned if my son took fielding practice. Last year i went to most practices sence they were an hour and a half and it was 30 minutes home. Last year he stood next to the coach and gave him balls as he hit them. He went to the OF once, no lie got one fly ball and dropped it, never a 2nd chance. He got 3 ground balls at SS and did a good job. They never practiced catchers, ever. The pitchers never threw a bullpen last year. We had 19 kids on the team, a couple POs and some kids were so bad they never played at all once they had a shot, but you could see at practice and tryouts they didn't have it. This year's fielding practice is much improved. He gets 5 ground balls in outfield and 5 fly balls as well. He has done well sense I have been hitting him fly balls on all of his off days, so that he stays good so he will not drop another in front of the coach.

I'm not sure of your tone here, so I will reserve most of my comments until I reread it a few more times.

However, I can tell you that it's a bad idea to hang around practice. Really bad. If a parent is watching consistently, a few thoughts are going to go through a coach's mind, and none of them are good.

BBDAD98 posted:

Your right as a coach I worry about my pitches feelings over getting the runners out. SMH. Serously you are right, everything was his fault. The curve balls that went behind the batters back to the back stop, totally his fault. His catching coach at the club even told him it would be before the season started. My son was not ready for that much blame. Someone mentioned if my son took fielding practice. Last year i went to most practices sence they were an hour and a half and it was 30 minutes home. Last year he stood next to the coach and gave him balls as he hit them. He went to the OF once, no lie got one fly ball and dropped it, never a 2nd chance. He got 3 ground balls at SS and did a good job. They never practiced catchers, ever. The pitchers never threw a bullpen last year. We had 19 kids on the team, a couple POs and some kids were so bad they never played at all once they had a shot, but you could see at practice and tryouts they didn't have it. This year's fielding practice is much improved. He gets 5 ground balls in outfield and 5 fly balls as well. He has done well sense I have been hitting him fly balls on all of his off days, so that he stays good so he will not drop another in front of the coach.

You are right.  The HS is the problem.  I have never heard such horrible practices.  Have you considered transferring.  This program will cripple your son's ability and I can't believe the coaches haven't realized what they have.  I am sure the current center fielder is the son of a deep wallet that bought his way on to the field.  Your son will never get a fair shot.  Get out while you can....  

Is this real? Or are we being trolled?

This is not for real.

This is real. Sorry just being a little funny about the pitchers feelings, but lets coach the situation. Is it the catcher, then coach him, is it the pitcher then coach him. Practice was that bad. It has improved this year as stated. I lot of parents hang out for practice. Mainly your booster club, and officers of the dugout club parents. I did hang out the first year but got sick of it so I stay away this year. Last year it was so bad with parents gossiping they sent out an email to stop. I was not involved. I didn't know those parents. We just moved to town. Our Varsity coach later resigned due to issues with money. Its not about CF guys. Just trying to earn a shot at the field and enjoying playing. Thanks for the input and other view points. I can totally see the coach thinking the way you guys are thinking. They are true statements. Thanks

BBdad....I just spent 15 minutes reading this bunch of garbage (sorry, but that's how it comes off)....and I have two thoughts....again, sorry for being blunt, but someone has to say it.

1) I feel sorry for you and your son......you're delusional and probably ruining any chance he ever has to be a good baseball player....................or.................

2) You're making this up just to have some fun because it's freezing in most of the country and your game got cancelled today.

Unfortunately I'm leaning toward #1.  Trust me....I know a little about this.....watch this....go to 7 minutes in....

https://tornadomovies.to/serie...rGifSP-watching.html

The guy is from my hometown...I coached his kid in 6th and 7th grade (he was a year younger than my son and we brought him up to play with the older kids).   The guy never gave me any crap because I liked his kid and really had hopes that he would help our HS team.  Also, he knew I had some connections with good travel teams and hoped to get his kids into one of the better programs.    This video is a little overboard...even for him, but EVERYONE else in our town thought it was EXACTLY how this guy is.  It's a little crazy...and I can tell some of it was staged...but not nearly as much as you'd think. 

The kid had a lot of potential...but if I didn't know better, I'd think that his dad and BBdad are the same guy....he had the exact same thoughts toward coaches as BBdad does.  Guess what, the kid went backwards from 8th grade when I coached him until he got thru HS.  The dad wouldn't let the kid do anything the HS coach said...and he ended up actually being a below average HS player....when as a 6th grader, the kid was as good as anyone in our area.

BBdad....sorry for coming off harsh, but your son deserves better....if he goes into practices/games with the attitude you have, he'll be lucky to play next year...let alone be on varsity.  One last thing....you said "I have all of his stats from Gamechanger".....well, this guy brought a scorebook to games when his son was in 4th-8th grades...not so he could keep track of his son's stats...he kept track of all of the OTHER kids... so he had "proof" when he wanted to argue with coaches about why his son should be playing more.  Take that however you want to

Thank you for your input sincerely. None of this is made up. I am not delusional, sorry. I know that would make you feel better. I found it hard to believe it was all happening as well. This is the best Baseball school around with a good academic record. People move here and find other loop holes just to come to this school. We have over 100 kids tryout for 55 spots. The other near by schools are lucky to fill 2 teams, we have 3. The talent here is so much better than the other 2 that we nearly run rule them every time we play. Those schools are playing at a rec level were as this team might be AA travel. With of course a mixture of very talented will play college to why did that person make the team. I have not spoken to the coach because it would never end well. Even if I got the coach to play him, my son might have a off day and then the coach would have a good reason. Or he would hold a gruge and never play him for spite. Is my son a super star? No. But he is out hitting their studs that THEY compare him to. He can make the throw from RF to 3rd or home on a line and the others do not. Their are tools to baseball that they look for and my son does a good job of using them. He was always the smaller kid on teams fighting for playing time. What he did have and still has is speed and a great work ethic. He worked on his mechanics in throwing, hitting, and cathing to make up the size disadvantage. It turned into him hitting as many homeruns as the big kids with the jacked up swings and throwing as hard as the kids hurting their arm throwing the same speed. He ended up being one of the biggest kids his 11u and 12u season because of a growth spurt. He is now small again and just as capable of out playing the larger guys who have no training. He is ready to play now. Those guys should wait and practice hard. My son has worked hard and doesn't want to wait while the other guys get better or not. Does that make sense? He had to wait and get better now its the opposite. I know life is not fair, work harder and show the coach without a doubt and if he still don't play you then you learned a life leason that sometimes your boss sucks. I have repeated these things, but it does not make it easier to swallow for him or me. He has risen above little playing time before. Being the best on the team and never played more than half of the innings he move to the cross town rival travel team and earn a spot in RF batting leadoff after the first tournament. Played amazing all year and help beat his old team. His old coach asked him to come back after his season and he did and started CF batting leadoff the whole next year if he wasn't pitching or catching. Why did it take all that to see that you should play someone? I know lifes not fair, work hard, see it all works out in the end yada yada. Thanks again for your opinions. I like venting it makes me feel better.

Wait....your last post didn't help....at all.   You are now saying your son is at "one of the best baseball schools around".....and you're still complaining that he's playing JV as a freshman?   Here in Ohio....at the "best baseball school around"....the best of the best freshmen.....play on the freshmen team....and are happy to do so.  I guess a couple things from your first post.  At my son's HS...that isn't nearly the "best baseball school around"....72 mph on the mound doesn't cut it...even in JV.  My son was throwing that hard in 7th grade....when he was 5' and 100 lbs.  He was mid-upper 70's as a freshman...and pitched on JV (no freshman team).  You said yourself that "he can't throw kids out".  So if he isn't throwing fast enough to pitch and can't play catcher, I guess at some point maybe you should just be HAPPY that he's playing JV at all.    I'm not going to go any further.  You've gotten a lot of replies here....from a lot of guys who have been thru it....my son is a D1 pitcher now.....and your last post makes it seem like we have just completely wasted our time.  Stop talking about 11U & 12U....those years are completely meaningless.  Stop talking about travel ball....it's meaningless too.  All that matters is what your HS coach thinks, sees and hears.   He is in charge....everyone here at some point has thought their kid was getting a raw deal from a coach....heck, I thought that when my son was a freshman in college.   Your son is 14 year old HS freshman.....you're going to give yourself a heart attack if you keep going the way you are.

From his profile ...

“I have been coaching for 11 years, 4 different sports”

Doesn’t sound like a coach to me in his posts. We’re getting spoofed.

RJM posted:

From his profile ...

“I have been coaching for 11 years, 4 different sports”

Doesn’t sound like a coach to me in his posts. We’re getting spoofed.

Lol, I'm kind of thinking the same thing.  A couple things I missed....he's talking about teams being rec ball and some AA.  We don't have USSSA here in Ohio anymore....but when we did, the teams playing AA were local teams who couldn't hit their way out of a paper bag lol.  He says "this team may be AA travel".  I'm not sure how you say "one of the best baseball schools around" then say the same team is like a AA travel team??   Either way, I'm done with this....I'm feeling like we're being set up for some kind of reality show 

Look he was happy to make JV. With coach not liking him he was ready for freshman team. No problem. He made the freshman team last year was happy, until the problems with the coaches sending up the wrong kids to JV and bringing them back down and taking more playing time from him. He sees and some others see that he is at those kids level. These are his team mates saying you'll be on JV or Varsity soon. The kids that get the playing time and don't do well see that. They want to play with him and not see him on the bench or just hitting. One was willing to trade spots in the line-up. They played two POs in the outfield and not him. I was happy that the POs were able to play, poor guys can't hit, but they got their chance to bat also. The travel ball stuff is just the back story of how he made the HS team sorry. He plays well in HS, I am very proud of what he has accomplished this season and last. Yes he has an average arm but we have very few good arms and a lot of average or below arms on the team. I didn't say we are a baseball powerhouse that has won championships. So we dont have a bunch of flame throwers. We had 3 freshman throwing as hard or harder than the varsity players. People were seriously worried that freshmen players would start over there kid on varsity. But guess what arm strength isn't eveything, you got to hit the strike zone and bat the ball. They weren't ready for that so they move back down. Again my son wants to play, doesn't matter if its freshman or JV he wasnts to be the best on whatever team he is own and he wants to play in the field. If they are handing out rewards for good playing of course he wants that to. Who wouldn't? Instead you watch the coach make a decision that you don't agree with and then watch the coach have to admit he was wrong and drop them back down. They have done this to the same 3 kids two years in a row. Whats the definition of insanity?

Look, your kid has an attitude problem, showed up his coach, and is now paying the price.  If I was his Coach he'd never even play this season.  He needs to grow up.  It doesn't matter if he's the next Mickey Mantle, he shouldn't have pointed fingers at his teammates and showed up his coach.  Now he's going to have to wait longer to play more.  From what you've told us, he deserves to wait more.  

We have the weakest schedule in our region. We are good compared to our suroundings. Yes AA travel is not very good. My son and 2 of his team mates played major ball in a different town that has more talent. They were not on the same teams, but the teams were good. This town does not travel. Maybe one kid here are there. We moved to this town. We were in a much better baseball town. This town does not even have a baseball batting cage or club facility. Nothing wrong with that they just stick to rec and allstar ball.

I'm so confused....watching basketball and paying attention to this is giving me a migraine.   How can you be "one of the best baseball schools around"....where kids move there to play baseball....but "we're not a baseball powerhouse".   You are in GA.....my son played in the 14U WWBA at East Cobb.  We were a pretty good team from "up north"....14U is heading into freshman year.... so the same level as your son is now.  We thought we were good....but we showed up in GA and got destroyed.   We weren't playing East Cobb teams....or the Roadrunners, we were playing teams that by GA standards were "average".  Your "average" down there is very, very good.  Those same "average" 14U travel kids are all fighting for spots on HS teams the following spring.....with kids who played for East Cobb or the Roadrunners or other top level 14U teams.  Those are the kids that make Varsity as freshmen.   Did your son play for East Cobb?   Did he play on a travel team in tourneys that played at that level?   Did his team play in the WWBA?   If so how did he hit against the pitching he saw there?     If he's not playing summer  on teams that are that level, to think that he steps into a GA HS and makes varsity as a freshman is kinda crazy in my mind.  

Buckeye 2015 posted:

RJM posted:

From his profile ...

“I have been coaching for 11 years, 4 different sports”

Doesn’t sound like a coach to me in his posts. We’re getting spoofed.

Lol, I'm kind of thinking the same thing.  A couple things I missed....he's talking about teams being rec ball and some AA.  We don't have USSSA here in Ohio anymore....but when we did, the teams playing AA were local teams who couldn't hit their way out of a paper bag lol.  He says "this team may be AA travel".  I'm not sure how you say "one of the best baseball schools around" then say the same team is like a AA travel team??   Either way, I'm done with this....I'm feeling like we're being set up for some kind of reality show 

We’re going to end up on Lavar Ball’s reality show.

3and2fastball, fair enough your ego would be hurt so you wouldn't field the best 9. I hear ya. The other kids are talking behind your back but someone has the guts to ask hey why don't we do this or that and their the problem. Fair enough, at least you admit to it. I like your honesty. I can handle honesty. This coach has been dishonest and most people can't and want see it.