Is he ready to showcase?

This thead may be helpful.

http://community.hsbaseballweb...e-by-time-or-ability

Very helpful. Thanks!

IMO he is not ready to showcase.  Our experience is that at most showcases no one is interested in the Frosh or Soph's let alone a Jr. High School kid.  He does not have any measurables that would stand out against the older kids.  

Colleges are looking for kids that throw mid to upper 80s, or 90s for D1.   These are minimum requirements.  The starting point.

Showcasing at 14...

The recruiting timeline was a great starting point for us on this site.  It's just a suggested path by folks who have been down the road before.  MidAtlantic links a thread...there are many others that also discuss the hows and whens...

If your player is not a phenom, then "they" won't find him.  That means he'll ultimately need exposure to the schools on his vetted list when he has something to showcase (something are tools like power, running speed, throwing velocity, etc.) or when the timeline dictates he do so (for example, no later than the Summer before his Senior year of high school). 

For those who aren't pro prospects and planning to turn pro, the vetted list of colleges is key.  Vetted by third parties for academic fit.  Vetted by third parties for baseball fit.  The intersection is the vetted list.  You guys may not have a vetted list of high schools yet!  You are very early.

IMO, don't start now.  Save your time and money.  Enjoy a couple years of high school baseball.  Your player has a lot of time to develop baseball skills, strength, speed, etc.  Or maybe he won't be interested in college baseball and you'll all be focused on something else.  You have lots of time.

No upside to showing your hand yet.  Keep your son focused on having fun, developing a strong work ethic, and understanding the classroom is a great tell for coaches.  Keep developing as an athlete, play multiple sports.  One year from now with a kid your son's size and capability, it could be positioning time.

In the meantime: investigate top pitching instructors and top club programs that take care of arms and develop players in your geographic area.  Check out their summer and off season schedules and the costs to support that schedule.  If you find a program you're interested in, follow them on twitter, FB, and def go to their facility and meet the instructors and program owners.  Interview them.

Sounds like you have a talented kid there, power goes to those that gather intel now, with power to those being patient.  Search for a well respected pitching instructor that is part of a program that offers a strong off season throwing program. With his size he could be at 1B as well as have a chance to make Varsity early; also, find a good fielding guy to develop his glove.  Solid hitting and fielding will keep him on the field while his pitching is being developed.  

You are in a great position to assist your son.  Welcome to the site.

(Edited: few typos...)

Gator297, Welcome!

I think we all at one time, when we found this site and started reading about showcasing, felt behind the 8-ball and wanted to rush things along.  Wise people  on this site have said not to showcase until you have reached Varsity and have something to showcase.

Read everything you can on this site.   This is a relatively new format in the last several years, but there is actually a Pre High School forum that is sometimes hard to find:  http://community.hsbaseballweb...orum/pre-high-school

Enjoy this time ("the ride") with your son!  It will go very fast!

If there is a local one that costs under $100, then definitely go do it, but from what the numbers you posted he would most likely get lost in the crowd in a larger venue...

phillyinNJ posted:

If there is a local one that costs under $100, then definitely go do it, but from what the numbers you posted he would most likely get lost in the crowd in a larger venue...

I'm not all for jumping in at 14, but then again, I'm not a fan of waiting two more years in your son's case until summer of rising Jr. year either.  Must be a balance, even at that early age for a kid to get exposed to the showcase world with no desire for exposure from it.  Big difference. 

Showcasing has a way of showing kids EXACTLY where they stand, or don't stand, in relation to their peer competition.  It can be sobering.  I realize a stopwatch, is a stopwatch, is a stopwatch; as is a radar gun.  Both can be operated by dad at the local park for free.  But denial is a powerful drug, especially when it involves a dad and his aspiring baseball son.  The evaluations one gets after a showcase can be sobering.  Usually are.  They can help a kid improve so that when he does have something to showcase, he can take the venue up a notch. 

I like PhillyinNJ's idea.  If any small money, local showcases, why not?  Can't see how it hurts?  Bottom line is no one is going to sniff unless the numbers are there, in at least one category. 

One thing that I took away is that he is an 8th grader who stands 6' and 170lbs.  Without ever seeing the kid, that sounds like a very projectable athletic frame!  Frankly, throwing in the low 70s as an 8th grader is very solid, not to mention that he's left handed.  I'm not going to comment on the "showcases" in the traditional sense.  However, if you have a solid mid-major D1 locally that offers winter pitching camps, or summer "showcase" camps where multiple college coaches attend to provide instruction...I think that would be a no brainer for the next couple of years.  (8th and 9th grade).

It allows for a number of coaches to see and get to know your son early, follow his development, not to mention the quality instruction.  We had a LHP in our high school program a few years back that was roughly the same size (a bit lighter actually) and threw low 70s when he was a freshman.  He eventually committed to UNC, and was drafted this past June.  He presently throws in the low-mid 90s.

Just a thought.

GoHeels posted:

One thing that I took away is that he is an 8th grader who stands 6' and 170lbs.  Without ever seeing the kid, that sounds like a very projectable athletic frame!  Frankly, throwing in the low 70s as an 8th grader is very solid, not to mention that he's left handed.  I'm not going to comment on the "showcases" in the traditional sense.  However, if you have a solid mid-major D1 locally that offers winter pitching camps, or summer "showcase" camps where multiple college coaches attend to provide instruction...I think that would be a no brainer for the next couple of years.  (8th and 9th grade).

It allows for a number of coaches to see and get to know your son early, follow his development, not to mention the quality instruction.  We had a LHP in our high school program a few years back that was roughly the same size (a bit lighter actually) and threw low 70s when he was a freshman.  He eventually committed to UNC, and was drafted this past June.  He presently throws in the low-mid 90s.

Just a thought.

 

Bingo.

Gator297 posted:

My son is an 8th grader (14yrs old), 6', 170lbs and still growing. He's left handed and has been pitching for 5 yrs. He also plays 1st and right field. GPA 4.0. He has good command and control on the mound. Last school season his ERA was 1.36/13.5 innings (not much time on the mound / team needed him on 1st).  His velocity is consistently between 69-72. Working on hitting 75 by start of this season. He plans on attending some camps / showcases this summer. With that said, I'm trying to get an idea if he would be competitive at these events or should he wait until his velocity is higher. I was told he should start now, but I'm not sure if the source was credible. Any insight is greatly appreciated.

I say yes , a lefty with that size already . Won't hurt , if the camp /Showcase is local I say do it , just for him to get a feel , FYI last week 2 kids -eight graders committed ,one to Louisville and the  other Mississippi State , I know the family of one of them , but both are over 6ft !  

At  that age they are looking for projectables, man I hate that word ! 

Hes need to keep working on his velo , so when the time comes , he's ready .

just my 1.5 cents ��

If parents waited until kids were ready, the Showcase Industry would go out of business.

Will it hurt for him to showcase now?  No.  Will he/you gain much from it?  Not really.  

You/he have plenty of time.  No need to put the pressure on him now.  

GoHeels posted:

One thing that I took away is that he is an 8th grader who stands 6' and 170lbs.  Without ever seeing the kid, that sounds like a very projectable athletic frame!  Frankly, throwing in the low 70s as an 8th grader is very solid, not to mention that he's left handed.  I'm not going to comment on the "showcases" in the traditional sense.  However, if you have a solid mid-major D1 locally that offers winter pitching camps, or summer "showcase" camps where multiple college coaches attend to provide instruction...I think that would be a no brainer for the next couple of years.  (8th and 9th grade).

It allows for a number of coaches to see and get to know your son early, follow his development, not to mention the quality instruction.  We had a LHP in our high school program a few years back that was roughly the same size (a bit lighter actually) and threw low 70s when he was a freshman.  He eventually committed to UNC, and was drafted this past June.  He presently throws in the low-mid 90s.

Just a thought.

 

I like this suggestion ^^^  One thought I have had on showcasing young, especially the PG type showcase where measurables are posted to a profile, you are committing to going back year after year to "improve" the numbers.  Say your son posts a 8.0 60yd dash and a 72 mph fastball.  Those stay on his profile until improved.

One thing I definitely recommend is NOT DOING a PG showcase until you absolutely have "something to show."  Fire away at that if you want beginning summer of Jr. year.  Undeveloped or Bad numbers on a PG profile at an early age will not prohibit you from ever being recruited, but it sure will not help your cause.  You will be wasting your money.  Been there done that with my son at 14.  That's the one thing I would not do, if I could do it all over again.

Small, local, maybe regional college camps which should take measurables and provide evals.  I believe is a good place to start exposing him TO showcasing. 

GoHeels posted:

One thing that I took away is that he is an 8th grader who stands 6' and 170lbs.  Without ever seeing the kid, that sounds like a very projectable athletic frame!  Frankly, throwing in the low 70s as an 8th grader is very solid, not to mention that he's left handed.  I'm not going to comment on the "showcases" in the traditional sense.  However, if you have a solid mid-major D1 locally that offers winter pitching camps, or summer "showcase" camps where multiple college coaches attend to provide instruction...I think that would be a no brainer for the next couple of years.  (8th and 9th grade).

It allows for a number of coaches to see and get to know your son early, follow his development, not to mention the quality instruction.  We had a LHP in our high school program a few years back that was roughly the same size (a bit lighter actually) and threw low 70s when he was a freshman.  He eventually committed to UNC, and was drafted this past June.  He presently throws in the low-mid 90s.

Just a thought.

 

I think this is a decent idea... concur with how projectable he is... just not a fan of the national get on the public radar showcase with a few measurables that don't stand out.  What stands out is his projectability...  

Attending an easy to get to D1 camp that could be of interest to the player could provide the experience and good feedback.  BUT, given his projectability, be prepared for them to like him, talk to him, and get into his head about their program.  

Committing early is an advantage to the school.   This player is in the driver seat, develop, develop, develop... 

I am the parent of a 14 year old 9th grader.  I have read and asked multiple questions on this site and from what I have gathered my personal plan is to take my son to a local INSTRUCTIONAL showcase NOT a PG showcase, this year.  There is a difference.

At an instructional showcase they actually do have instructors.  If a kid approaches the ball in a manner that the instructor thinks is unsuitable they stop and correct the kid.  Conversely, if and when your kid goes to a PG showcase they are evaluating and judging your kid and that information goes onto his PG account FOREVER!  (**EDIT: Unless you ask PG to remove it)

If my son wants to play baseball in college I know he will go to a PG showcase, from what I hear they really do a top notch job at evaluating kids current ability and projecting future ability.  However, my son will not attend a PG showcase until he has $650 worth of something to show!  Whereas, the local instructional showcase is around $100-$150 and I think of it more as a very long paid lesson with the added bonus of my son doing his baseball thing in front of people who actually know if he is doing it correctly, and if he isn't they will let him know.

I'm a believer in wait until you have something to show/sell before spending money on showcasing. However, your son has some early projectables based on his size. Have him attend a local D1 showcase next summer if it's under $200. You and he will find out what it's all about. You will see kids that will be where your son should aim to be in the future. If nothing else go watch a local showcase. The price is right. If you get up close you will see how big, strong and fast quality potential college athletes are compared to how ordinary it looks on tv.

I am in concurrence with the majority. Not a matter of too young just a matter of numbers not ready. Mine is a freshman now. One year older than yours but really in the same position. Solid numbers but nothing that will make coaches pick up the phone and call the head of our organization. Til I can honestly believe he will get calls I will wait. It is hard cause the recruiting process has sped up of course. One 2020 he has played with and against just committed. One of his best friends from school still has t showcased but will get offers the minute he does (should be pushing 90 as frosh). For my son I have to face the fact he is not one of those. It may happen it may not happen. There are a couple years left so time will tell. But sending him to a showcase with less than recruitable numbers would be a waste of time and money. Set some goals to reach before showcasing. For me it has to be low 80's at least. Preferably thinking there is at least a chance of touching 85. Exit velocity of 90+ though as he is just about there now I am somewhat amending that and thinking maybe 95?  For sure if he could throw 85 and exit velocity of 95 we would go. Until then college camps. 

2020dad posted:

I am in concurrence with the majority. Not a matter of too young just a matter of numbers not ready. Mine is a freshman now. One year older than yours but really in the same position. Solid numbers but nothing that will make coaches pick up the phone and call the head of our organization. Til I can honestly believe he will get calls I will wait. It is hard cause the recruiting process has sped up of course. One 2020 he has played with and against just committed. One of his best friends from school still has t showcased but will get offers the minute he does (should be pushing 90 as frosh). For my son I have to face the fact he is not one of those. It may happen it may not happen. There are a couple years left so time will tell. But sending him to a showcase with less than recruitable numbers would be a waste of time and money. Set some goals to reach before showcasing. For me it has to be low 80's at least. Preferably thinking there is at least a chance of touching 85. Exit velocity of 90+ though as he is just about there now I am somewhat amending that and thinking maybe 95?  For sure if he could throw 85 and exit velocity of 95 we would go. Until then college camps. 

The recruiting timeline has moved up for top prospects, major conference and other ranked programs. For everyone else it's still the summer after junior year with the possibility of getting on the radar post soph year.

RJM posted:

2020dad posted:

I am in concurrence with the majority. Not a matter of too young just a matter of numbers not ready. Mine is a freshman now. One year older than yours but really in the same position. Solid numbers but nothing that will make coaches pick up the phone and call the head of our organization. Til I can honestly believe he will get calls I will wait. It is hard cause the recruiting process has sped up of course. One 2020 he has played with and against just committed. One of his best friends from school still has t showcased but will get offers the minute he does (should be pushing 90 as frosh). For my son I have to face the fact he is not one of those. It may happen it may not happen. There are a couple years left so time will tell. But sending him to a showcase with less than recruitable numbers would be a waste of time and money. Set some goals to reach before showcasing. For me it has to be low 80's at least. Preferably thinking there is at least a chance of touching 85. Exit velocity of 90+ though as he is just about there now I am somewhat amending that and thinking maybe 95?  For sure if he could throw 85 and exit velocity of 95 we would go. Until then college camps. 

The recruiting timeline has moved up for top prospects, major conference and other ranked programs. For everyone else it's still the summer after junior year with the possibility of getting on the radar post soph year.

While I think the timeline for OFFERS is still the same I do believe coaches are stalking kids much earlier.  Having your kid on the radar for 3 years sounds better than having your kid on the radar for 6 months. I've read PGstaff saying something like "It's better to have years of data that shows the progression, than wonder if what I just saw was his best outing ever."

Gator297 posted:

My son is an 8th grader (14yrs old), 6', 170lbs and still growing. He's left handed and has been pitching for 5 yrs. He also plays 1st and right field. GPA 4.0. He has good command and control on the mound. Last school season his ERA was 1.36/13.5 innings (not much time on the mound / team needed him on 1st).  His velocity is consistently between 69-72. Working on hitting 75 by start of this season. He plans on attending some camps / showcases this summer. With that said, I'm trying to get an idea if he would be competitive at these events or should he wait until his velocity is higher. I was told he should start now, but I'm not sure if the source was credible. Any insight is greatly appreciated.

All good insight on this thread and in the link that Midatlanticdad provided.  Due to your son's current velo and his age, there is no immediate rush for big showcases.  You've found a great resource that will help you two start mapping out a plan, assuming HE has shown specific interest in playing at the next level.  If the skill set develops and the abilities, work ethic and desire are there, you and he will find more than one way to get there.  Good instruction and fostering an environment that will allow him to continue/deepen his love of playing are very important at this stage.  Individual family budgets of time and money should be factored into the plan.  

If money was not a factor and son has shown keen interest, you may want to attend a decent local showcase for measurables and format acclimation.   If there is a PG showcase in your neck of the woods, take him just as a spectator.  It would give him an instant snapshot of what college prospects look like.  He will have a much clearer picture of how far his skill set needs to develop.

In regards to any eventual scholarship $$, know that, in the baseball world, grades usually earn more than athletics.  So, it's great to see he is in good shape there.  Any time someone comes aboard and is looking at showcases before the player has even reached HS, it is worth mentioning - don't get too far ahead of yourself.  Make sure you fully enjoy the HS years!!  

Sometimes I wish people would ask us rather than state things as though they are facts.

I agree with those that say you shouldn't attend a showcase unless you have something to show.  To create interest you must have something to show.  However, that something doesn't always have to be a measurable that goes on a profile.  At a showcase our people see everything, the measurables whether by TrackMan, Radar, Laser, stopwatch, etc. are just part of the report.

Please understand there is a world of difference in showcases.  Those that have attended the biggest and best ones know that.  Judging talent locally shouldn't be very difficult.  Everyone plays locally.  Comparing talent regionally would be better and nationally would be better yet.  Still, there are regional and national showcases that don't have much talent.

I would never try to tell a kid to attend a PG showcase if he didn't belong there.  We don't want kids to spend money and look like they are out of place.  We want kids that at least blend in if not standout in some way.  Certainly a few slip through that shouldn't be there, but for the most part we see college level prospects.  Maybe not all DI or Pro prospects, but nearly all can play some level of college baseball.  Yes there are some that attend just to experience things at a young age.  

I have said many many times on here, that I'm not here to promote Perfect Game.  I much prefer other topics that interest me.  Just like many others involved here, the HSBBW is like a hobby or outlet to me.  I love baseball and I love kids... I know quite a bit about baseball, lots of experience, but don't know everything.  So I don't mind giving my thoughts and opinions and I love hearing what others  think.

That said, when I read profound statements regarding what we do that aren't entirely factual, it is troubling.  For example, this one that I have read numerous times... If your numbers are poor, they stay on your PG profile forever.  That is only true if that is something the player wants.  People have no idea how many times we delete information by request.  We have deleted entire profiles, but most often it is just a running time or radar reading.  So nothing has to be there "forever".

We are in the business of helping young players.  While we would love to help every young player succeed, that would be impossible.  At the same time, we certainly don't want to harm anyone.  

One last thing that I have said many times... Perfect Game is not Perfect.  It's not for everybody.  If a player has next level ability he is likely to be very happy with us...  If a player lacks next level ability, we can't help him and he is likely to be unhappy with us.  There is no reason to mislead anyone about that.  And keep in mind, at times, we do make mistakes. We just never make mistakes on purpose.

CABBAGEDAD,

That sounds like some great advice to me.

I especially like the idea of young players coming as spectators.  Doesn't cost anything other than maybe some travel expense and it will be informative.  In fact, those among the more talented young kids 12-14 years old, might even consider traveling to the biggest and best events to see what the very best look like.  Maybe take a trip to Ft Myers and watch the PG National Showcase in June.  Travel might get you, but no charge to attend. I guarantee it will be a real eye opener.

PGStaff posted:

Sometimes I wish people would ask us rather than state things as though they are facts.

That said, when I read profound statements regarding what we do that aren't entirely factual, it is troubling.  For example, this one that I have read numerous times... If your numbers are poor, they stay on your PG profile forever.  That is only true if that is something the player wants.  People have no idea how many times we delete information by request.  We have deleted entire profiles, but most often it is just a running time or radar reading.  So nothing has to be there "forever".

 

Great point PG Staff.  Son has always been aware that PG would remove his 6.5 grade if he requested it be removed.  Especially since he was only 14 at the time, and went to the showcase because his dad (me!) was rushing him into the process.  

But son has always said, "No.  Leave it."  And has used it as a source of..............drive.  

As has often been mentioned on here in the past, most coaches will only trust their own eyes.  They like to see their beliefs confirmed by other reputable scouting services, but at the end of the day, it's their judgement not someone else's.  

I don't believe there needs to be a hard and fast rule on when to showcase (e.g., not until a certain pitching velocity is achieved). It's an individual decision that's different for everybody. Son attended his first PG showcase the week before his 15th birthday, topping out at a blazing 78 mph (lol). But he gained great experience, helpful video that he could share with college coaches, and solid advice in his evaluation. In spite of the velo, he was rated an 8 and made the Top Prospect list, which cited his lanky frame and quality breaking ball. Fast forward two years, up to low 90's, PG 10, nationally ranked. Having seen thousands upon thousands of players, one thing PG is impressively good at is projecting where players will eventually end up. Attending an early showcase can give you an inkling about that, and ease nerves the next time around - assuming it's not cost prohibitive to attend a future showcase. If you can only afford to attend one, then it might be best to wait until after sophomore year (for pitchers) or junior year (for position players). 

I would say not really ready for showcasing, but if he's interested maybe take him to a local inexpensive college skills camp, just to have fun and get the feel for the format.

I've seen plenty of kids i knew go to showcases that "shouldn't" have been there. Maybe it was the parent or maybe the kid really wanted to go. Natural selection can be a good thing and it could also drive the kid to work harder towards his goals.  I'm curious, other than the fairly kind write ups these kids get online that really aren't that good, talent-wise......i wonder if they are given legitimate "criticism" that could help them improve? 

EDIT- My son did attend a camp at Furman and did well. He got good feedback and criticism from the PC, which he did not like but i can tell you it drove him to improve. He kept that eval on his bedside table. 

We, and yes i say we because i was cutting the $600 check, never showcased and ended up in a pretty good spot. 

My 2019 who is 6'6" 210 went to one showcase at 14 yo.  He was 6'4" 190 and threw mid to upper 70's at  the time (although he is 1B/RHP).  He fell right into the mix with every kid out there and had nothing exceptional to show, other than his "projectability", mechanics and command (the last two are expected not praised).  

Unless you light up the radar gun (low 80's at his age), hit the ball 400 ft., or run a 6.5 60, and/or any combination of those measurables, you are wasting your time at a showcase.  Even at smaller local events, there will be 80+ kids trying to grab attention.  Very few actually do and at 6' 170, he will blend into the rest of the crowd. It seems to me that unless it is a high profile "invite only" PG type event, you will be wasting your time. 

 Check velo and speed (60) at your local training facility and understand that elite 14/15 year olds do actually throw 85-90, hit the ball 400 ft and run sub 6.7 60's.   Make sure he is on the best Summer team he can play for.  Not just make, but contribute.  Identify your weak areas and get after it throughout the next year.  At 14, the sweat equity he is willing to put into his game will let you know how serious he is, before you get too serious with the checkbook.

Shoveit4Ks posted:

I've seen plenty of kids i knew go to showcases that "shouldn't" have been there. Maybe it was the parent or maybe the kid really wanted to go. Natural selection can be a good thing and it could also drive the kid to work harder towards his goals.  I'm curious, other than the fairly kind write ups these kids get online that really aren't that good, talent-wise......i wonder if they are given legitimate "criticism" that could help them improve? 

EDIT- My son did attend a camp at Furman and did well. He got good feedback and criticism from the PC, which he did not like but i can tell you it drove him to improve. He kept that eval on his bedside table. 

We, and yes i say we because i was cutting the $600 check, never showcased and ended up in a pretty good spot. 

Isn't that where the instructional showcases, under $150, could be helpful at 14?  Not to be actually noticed but to get a critique that could help them improve.

CaCO3Girl posted:

Shoveit4Ks posted:

I've seen plenty of kids i knew go to showcases that "shouldn't" have been there. Maybe it was the parent or maybe the kid really wanted to go. Natural selection can be a good thing and it could also drive the kid to work harder towards his goals.  I'm curious, other than the fairly kind write ups these kids get online that really aren't that good, talent-wise......i wonder if they are given legitimate "criticism" that could help them improve? 

EDIT- My son did attend a camp at Furman and did well. He got good feedback and criticism from the PC, which he did not like but i can tell you it drove him to improve. He kept that eval on his bedside table. 

We, and yes i say we because i was cutting the $600 check, never showcased and ended up in a pretty good spot. 

Isn't that where the instructional showcases, under $150, could be helpful at 14?  Not to be actually noticed but to get a critique that could help them improve.

Caco, if the objective is instruction and critique, wouldn't you get more bang for your buck with two or three private instruction lessons than one time with a large group and the possibility of volunteer instructors that may not be very good or engaged?

cabbagedad posted:

CaCO3Girl posted:

Isn't that where the instructional showcases, under $150, could be helpful at 14?  Not to be actually noticed but to get a critique that could help them improve.

Caco, if the objective is instruction and critique, wouldn't you get more bang for your buck with two or three private instruction lessons than one time with a large group and the possibility of volunteer instructors that may not be very good or engaged?

 I think the camp would provide more bang for the buck.  However, the camp has to be vetted as to whom will be attending as instructors and that the number of participants is capped at a reasonable level of participants segregated by position.

30 minute private lesson = $50

7 hours with knowledgeable people that do this for a living surrounded by older players likely doing "it" better = $150

I'm thinking camp is the better option....but I'll let you know in January which he thinks he got more out of.

2019 sdnt1st posted:

My 2019 who is 6'6" 210 went to one showcase at 14 yo.  He was 6'4" 190 and threw mid to upper 70's at  the time (although he is 1B/RHP).  He fell right into the mix with every kid out there and had nothing exceptional to show, other than his "projectability", mechanics and command (the last two are expected not praised).  

Unless you light up the radar gun (low 80's at his age), hit the ball 400 ft., or run a 6.5 60, and/or any combination of those measurables, you are wasting your time at a showcase.  Even at smaller local events, there will be 80+ kids trying to grab attention.  Very few actually do and at 6' 170, he will blend into the rest of the crowd. It seems to me that unless it is a high profile "invite only" PG type event, you will be wasting your time. 

 Check velo and speed (60) at your local training facility and understand that elite 14/15 year olds do actually throw 85-90, hit the ball 400 ft and run sub 6.7 60's.   Make sure he is on the best Summer team he can play for.  Not just make, but contribute.  Identify your weak areas and get after it throughout the next year.  At 14, the sweat equity he is willing to put into his game will let you know how serious he is, before you get too serious with the checkbook.

 

 

 

Similar with my 2017 when he was 14/15 (cant remember which, just know I had to drive him).  Took him to a local showcase.  Low cost and our main objective was to get his measurables and let him go through the process to get comfortable with the format.  He was 6'4" 180 at the time.  Hit 80 on the gun and sat 78.  Showed well at 1B as well and had above average exit velo.

According to the write up, good off speed and good breaking ball great exit velo and very projectable, above average player for his age.   Thing is he was only heading into his Frosh year in HS and while he was showing well for his age, he did not stand out from the pack against the HS kids showcasing.  He did show better then a lot of the HS kids but did not stand out.  I can say in the end this showcase made no impact, either positive or negative in the recruiting process.  

joes87 posted:

2019 sdnt1st posted:

My 2019 who is 6'6" 210 went to one showcase at 14 yo.  He was 6'4" 190 and threw mid to upper 70's at  the time (although he is 1B/RHP).  He fell right into the mix with every kid out there and had nothing exceptional to show, other than his "projectability", mechanics and command (the last two are expected not praised).  

Unless you light up the radar gun (low 80's at his age), hit the ball 400 ft., or run a 6.5 60, and/or any combination of those measurables, you are wasting your time at a showcase.  Even at smaller local events, there will be 80+ kids trying to grab attention.  Very few actually do and at 6' 170, he will blend into the rest of the crowd. It seems to me that unless it is a high profile "invite only" PG type event, you will be wasting your time. 

 Check velo and speed (60) at your local training facility and understand that elite 14/15 year olds do actually throw 85-90, hit the ball 400 ft and run sub 6.7 60's.   Make sure he is on the best Summer team he can play for.  Not just make, but contribute.  Identify your weak areas and get after it throughout the next year.  At 14, the sweat equity he is willing to put into his game will let you know how serious he is, before you get too serious with the checkbook.

 

 

 

Similar with my 2017 when he was 14/15 (cant remember which, just know I had to drive him).  Took him to a local showcase.  Low cost and our main objective was to get his measurables and let him go through the process to get comfortable with the format.  He was 6'4" 180 at the time.  Hit 80 on the gun and sat 78.  Showed well at 1B as well and had above average exit velo.

According to the write up, good off speed and good breaking ball great exit velo and very projectable, above average player for his age.   Thing is he was only heading into his Frosh year in HS and while he was showing well for his age, he did not stand out from the pack against the HS kids showcasing.  He did show better then a lot of the HS kids but did not stand out.  I can say in the end this showcase made no impact, either positive or negative in the recruiting process.  

So where did he go?  This is his year?

CaCO3Girl posted:

cabbagedad posted:

CaCO3Girl posted:

Isn't that where the instructional showcases, under $150, could be helpful at 14?  Not to be actually noticed but to get a critique that could help them improve.

Caco, if the objective is instruction and critique, wouldn't you get more bang for your buck with two or three private instruction lessons than one time with a large group and the possibility of volunteer instructors that may not be very good or engaged?

 I think the camp would provide more bang for the buck.  However, the camp has to be vetted as to whom will be attending as instructors and that the number of participants is capped at a reasonable level of participants segregated by position.

30 minute private lesson = $50

7 hours with knowledgeable people that do this for a living surrounded by older players likely doing "it" better = $150

I'm thinking camp is the better option....but I'll let you know in January which he thinks he got more out of.

Suggestion: 

Look at the Bio's of the coaches attending the camps.  I approached an AC who was a former all SEC SS about giving private lessons to my son.  The college was within an hour drive of us, and my son was not interested in the school.  The AC agreed; my son has been fine tuning his glove work with him for the past two months. 

Top shelf private lessons at a rate cheaper than the local baseball program. ($40-50 per half hour at baseball facility vs former all SEC SS at $50 cash per hour).  We are also able to use this college's indoor facilities.  The AC was happy to get $50 cash per hour; we always run over in time and I'm generous. Young AC's don't make much money.  This AC is slowly becoming a mentor for my son, very helpful with the recruiting process.

Not the original topic of the thread but it was asked where a player would get more bang for the buck - a college showcase/camp or private lessons.  I can say that for the events my 2016 attended there was very little in the way of instruction provided to the players.  Sure, there is some to kill time and give the appearance of being a "camp" but the players are there for the most part with the hope of being seen and the coaches are there with the hope of finding one or two prospects for the upcoming class (and to earn extra income).  We found that to be consistent between D1 camps and D3 camps (when I say "we" I mean "I" since I don't think 2016 cared and I'm the one who sat there and watched).  

I'm sure there must be showcase camps out there where instruction and written evaluations are provided but I think those are the exceptions and not the rule.  Example of instructions at one D1 camp 2016 attended as a PO - working on pick-off moves in the outfield while the infielders did their infield showcasing from SS.  

CaCO3Girl posted:

cabbagedad posted:

CaCO3Girl posted:

Isn't that where the instructional showcases, under $150, could be helpful at 14?  Not to be actually noticed but to get a critique that could help them improve.

Caco, if the objective is instruction and critique, wouldn't you get more bang for your buck with two or three private instruction lessons than one time with a large group and the possibility of volunteer instructors that may not be very good or engaged?

 I think the camp would provide more bang for the buck.  However, the camp has to be vetted as to whom will be attending as instructors and that the number of participants is capped at a reasonable level of participants segregated by position.

30 minute private lesson = $50

7 hours with knowledgeable people that do this for a living surrounded by older players likely doing "it" better = $150

I'm thinking camp is the better option....but I'll let you know in January which he thinks he got more out of.

Hmmm... it will be interesting to hear your / his assessment at that time.  Remember, the question was framed with the objective being only instruction and critique.  My experience has been clearly on the other side of that viewpoint, more along the lines of those who have posted most recently.  

Things can be pointed out and introduced in a camp format but it is extremely difficult to really dig in, fine tune, reinforce, measure, etc. to achieve meaningful gains.  And while you can vet out specific camps, there is rarely any assurance that your player will spend any quality time with the coaches or instructors you are targeting.  When you research a private instructor, you are much more likely to get the product you signed up for.  

We often hope for that one gem of information that is a lightbulb coming out of a camp but, in reality, that same point and ten others will come from a whole series of privates.  And, often, that lightbulb moment has nothing to do with instruction.

Camps do have other purpose and can be worthwhile.  As always, mileage varies for each side of this.

Sorry to OP for the thread diversion, but at least it's somewhat related and can add relevant insight.

I understand why people place so much importance on measurables.  Everyone pays attention to them.  However, there is a lot more to baseball than running a 6.5 60 or hitting a ball 400'.  First of all there are kids that get drafted in the first round or being recruited by power college programs that can't do either of those things.  Nice for those that can, but those types are kind of rare.  What about hitting, throwing, fielding, instincts, thinking, being able to play the game?

"Good" instruction can be very valuable.  Not all instruction is "good"!

I sometimes read about the player that did nothing yet still got recruited and is happy.  Of course that happens at times and happiness doesn't mean happiest.  Almost always this is involving a local or regional college, often a lower level and with a low offer.  The same player  being known by many more colleges, becomes more in demand.  Even the local college needs to make their best offer to get that player.  Truth is there are many college players at small colleges or even lesser DI colleges that have the ability to play at any program in the country.  Either the player and his parents didn't know that or the top colleges in the country didn't know that.

The southern colleges don't plan on recruiting northern players.  But if they see one they like they will recruit him.  Then that player has options and leverage.  Even the northern schools are forced to pony up if they want that player.  Being a former small college coach and scout I realize that there are small college players that are talented enough they should get drafted and given the opportunity to play professional baseball.  Depending on the small college they play for, some actually get that opportunity.  Many others with outstanding ability will never even be considered.  There is a town league where I'm from that is full of former professional players and DI players.  By far, the best pitcher and best hitter this league has ever seen are a former small college player that never got a sniff of pro ball and a guy that never was recruited by a college or given a chance to play professionally.

Call it lack of exposure, or skeptism by decision makers, many small college players just get lost, just like many HS players get lost.  We had two pitchers at our small college that actually made it to the big leagues.  I had to work hard and risk credibility to get them a chance.  One was drafted in the 11th round. The other signed as a free agent.  If the kid that was drafted in the 11th round had been pitching for a SEC or most any DI, he would have been an easy 1st round pick.  He threw 97 with plus life and he had a plus slider and was a maniac competitor.  That is a resume for certain first round.  The other kid was a lefty that never came close to 90 mph for us.  But he had three quality pitches.

Some might say, so what he made it anyway.  Look up the difference between 1st round and 11th round.

IMO every player would benefit by being seen and evaluated by someone that is good at evaluating players.  Whether that evaluation tells you you're not the level you desire or you're better than the level you think you are... It can be beneficial.  Believe me, players and parents don't always know.

You don't need to sign up for the next possible PG Showcase.  We are not the only people that are good at evaluating talent.  Suggestion... Stay away from friends, no matter how good they might be, they are more than likely going to tell you what you want to hear, rather than what they really think. Don't go running to the nearest cheap showcase thinking you will get a good evaluation. While it is always possible, remember just like instructors and everything else, the good, bad and ugly exists.

I really know of nothing that can replace being seen by people that have seen thousands and thousands of players including those that have played at every level from World Series Champions to MLB All Stars to College All Americans down to lowest level DIII to none of the above.  I guess in that case that would be us!  To be honest, I don't personally see as many as I used to, we have many others working events these days.  But I see very few kids that can't play college baseball.  It's just a matter of what level.  I just don't think very many of those that can't play go to PG events.

2019 sdnt1st posted:

joes87 posted:

2019 sdnt1st posted:

My 2019 who is 6'6" 210 went to one showcase at 14 yo.  He was 6'4" 190 and threw mid to upper 70's at  the time (although he is 1B/RHP).  He fell right into the mix with every kid out there and had nothing exceptional to show, other than his "projectability", mechanics and command (the last two are expected not praised).  

Unless you light up the radar gun (low 80's at his age), hit the ball 400 ft., or run a 6.5 60, and/or any combination of those measurables, you are wasting your time at a showcase.  Even at smaller local events, there will be 80+ kids trying to grab attention.  Very few actually do and at 6' 170, he will blend into the rest of the crowd. It seems to me that unless it is a high profile "invite only" PG type event, you will be wasting your time. 

 Check velo and speed (60) at your local training facility and understand that elite 14/15 year olds do actually throw 85-90, hit the ball 400 ft and run sub 6.7 60's.   Make sure he is on the best Summer team he can play for.  Not just make, but contribute.  Identify your weak areas and get after it throughout the next year.  At 14, the sweat equity he is willing to put into his game will let you know how serious he is, before you get too serious with the checkbook.

 

 

 

Similar with my 2017 when he was 14/15 (cant remember which, just know I had to drive him).  Took him to a local showcase.  Low cost and our main objective was to get his measurables and let him go through the process to get comfortable with the format.  He was 6'4" 180 at the time.  Hit 80 on the gun and sat 78.  Showed well at 1B as well and had above average exit velo.

According to the write up, good off speed and good breaking ball great exit velo and very projectable, above average player for his age.   Thing is he was only heading into his Frosh year in HS and while he was showing well for his age, he did not stand out from the pack against the HS kids showcasing.  He did show better then a lot of the HS kids but did not stand out.  I can say in the end this showcase made no impact, either positive or negative in the recruiting process.  

So where did he go?  This is his year?

I put up a post about a year or so ago regarding this.  He decided he did not want to play collegiate baseball just prior to his Jr HS season starting.  He did not play on his showcase between his jr and sr year.  He did do some showcasing through his travel program between his Soph and Jr year and in the winter leading up to his Jr. year (before he made his decision).  Based on those showcases, his HS play and the numerous emails he sent out prior to his decision, he did attract what I would deem a decent level of interest from colleges.  Mainly mid to low D1s, and now lots of D3s.  No offers, but that was due to him letting him know that he did not want to play in college.  A few of the coaches have let him know that if he changes his mind to get in touch with them as they may have a place for him, or would be willing to take him on as a walk on if they are fully committed.