Jimmy Barnes 2015 SS/3B Deep Creek HS, VA

And? Are we starting new threads for every high school player in Virginia? 

I hope this is not what Jimmy's parents money is buying for exposure....

No, Jimmy's parents didn't pay a dime.  We see hundreds of players and do everything we can to get them some recognition for their hard work.  No player pays a penny.

 

Thanks,  Bobby McKinney

 

and what is he beign recognized for?  his nice uniform?  I'm so confused by this post!

I guess your right, I will add notes and more information as I post the pics.

 

Should not be a lot of confusion,  Players are spending their summers looking for the opportunity to impress college recruiters.  I know some recruiters look at these message boards.

 

Recognition, I guess is the fact they have worked very hard and moved into area of being a recruitable college baseball player, deserves exposure.

 

 

 

 

Thanks,

Bobby McKinney

Again, I have no dog in this fight but this seems all a bit mean spirited.  I do not know Barnes at all, personally, but even a little research would quickly show he has some talent.  Jimmy Barnes was the first team All-Conference 17 3b  and Co-Player of the Year!!! and was an honorable mention 3B on the All 4A South Region Team behind 1st teamer Trevor Denton of Hanover and 2nd teamer Chase Williams of Nansemond River.  The other honorable mention 3B was Sean Hughes of Jamestown. Not sure, but this would seem to fall within the category of recognition and achievement no?

Top-flight recruiters don't get their leads off of high school message boards. Instead, they get them from trusted sources in the baseball community and the players, themselves. The recommendations of parents and paid representatives are generally viewed with extreme skepticism.

 

The player, himself, would be well served to communicate his interest to those programs in which he's interested and where he thinks he can contribute. 

The approach of posting a player's attributes as a means to promote the player via this Board poses an interesting series of questions.

 

1) Work with me here: What if this approach works to the benefit of the player, i.e., it delivers greater visibility to his target audience and has a positive impact on his recruiting objectives? If that occurred, then you would expect that every player would do the same thing. Result? A board full of player promotions. And of course, there would be diminishing returns, not to mention a loss of site visitors (much to the dismay of advertisers).

 

2) And what if it doesn't add any benefits? Then either the act of posting continues unabated or it ceases (there's no benefit). In the case of the former, there's a loss of site visitors, and with the latter, all is well.

 

We can guess all we want as to whether or not this marketing tactic works, and as it is in the Marketing discipline, opinions run in second place to test results.

 

So test away, but in light of annoyed site visitors/members in two of the three potential outcomes, you'll want to test beneath a different Forum topic.

 

Deep down, however, I sense this will not end well. In the digital world of anonymous postings, identifying a young man in this fashion could open up a variety of opinions, rumors, naysayers and outright deceptions.

My two cents....

 

It is marketing and promotion plain and simple.  If Baseball Clearinghouse is paying the bills for this website along with other business supporters I have no problem with them advertising in a format that the web administrators allow. 

 

In addition, it is a thread topic that I will most likely click for the last time as there is really nothing that interests me.  I have nothing against the players.  However, I like to watch young up-and-coming talent on the field not read about them through a promotion.  JMO.

I agree.

Seems like this biz is using a player to fatten his wallet, not get the player noticed (see Prepsters comment as well).

Do these players know that you use free sites to market their talents?  How much do they pay you to do this?

I have sent a notification to Julie to see if Baseball Clearinghouse is a site sponsor.  I don't have access to the names of all of the sponsors and so, don't want to take action just yet until MNMom replies. 

I didn't realize this post would set off this much discussion,

correct me where I went off course here,

1) the watermark was placed on photo as a photo credit.

2) no one paid anyone a penny for the placement of the picture or statement.

3) information was placed from a source who was at an event, not getting paid a penny for attending event, simply to cover event as a media source.

4) I was under the impression, from viewing years worth of post from anonymous individuals, that actual documented information from a identified source, not a person who remains anonymous, would be welcomed.

5) I personally provided college recruiting articles to this site that have been posted for years, and used by thousands of viewers as a resource.

 

 

It seems I have stepped on some toes of the old guard of this site.  

 

I cover hundreds of games each year, arriving for the first game of the day and remaining till the last.  Overwhelmingly, at the end of day, I outlast every college recruiter and remain the only person in the ballpark left to document, film, evaluate players.  I am not getting paid for this.

 

To answer a few comments,

 

The post on this board involving game times, coaching changes, and nuts and bolts information on high school baseball is valuable to college recruiters and pro scouts.  static information provided by board posters tends to be helpful.  Most recruiters will tune out when the opinions and bickering between posters begins. 

 

Of course college recruiters get information from different resources, non d1 schools have very little to no budgets to travel for recruiting, they do use this information to identify players.  The majority of players are non d1 caliber players and benefit greatly from any exposure they may receive.

 

If there is a place on the forums to place the type of information I provide, please let me know.  If not, then no other post will be made.

 

This site allows pictures and video to be posted, it is part of the form when loading messages.  Am I the first person to load pictures in this manner?

 

I have been covering high school baseball for over 23 years, we'll before this site, or the internet or most posters have been around.  Before you accuse someone of "fattening their wallet" know what your talking about.  I am neither a parent or a paid representative,  and I am one of those "trusted" resources you spoke of.  

Next time you talk to a college coach or a travel team coach, mention my name and see what they say.

 

Thanks,

Bobby McKinney

 

 

 

 

Bobby- Does Jimmy Barnes know that his information is posted here on this website?

 

 

JH,

 

And you ask that question because? Are you suggesting that nothing can be posted about a player who does not know it is being posted?  I wouldn't be surprised if players don't know half of what is posted about them.  I say half because I suspect that half of the players read this forum (at least that was a rough percentage of my son's high school team.)  The information can be gleaned by anyone who attends a workout.  I have seen the "numbers" posted on this web site for all participants from some workout events for which the players DID pay to attend the event.  Did they all know it was being posted?

 

My only suggestion is that, instead of starting a thread on only one player, perhaps Mr. McKinney should have started a thread whose title was Uncommitted 2015s, if it has not been started already.  I know those kind of threads have been here before.  I recall posting information on a number of players that I had watched regularly (you may recall that I posted writeups on many high school games, including many in which Western Branch was not a participant), did not inform the players I was so doing and certainly was not paid a dime to do so.  (And I have had college coaches call to ask me about players in this area.)

 

As Mr. McKinney said, he spends long hours at the ballpark.  I see him frequently behind home plate with his radar gun poised on each pitcher.  I distributed to each high school player on my son's high school team, at Mr. McKinney's request, an information request form preprinted with the player's and high school name and with a return addressed envelope .  Mr. McKinney wanted the information to place in his data base AT NO CHARGE to any of the players who mailed it in.  I have viewed that information from the data base, at no charge.  I don't know whether Mr. McKinney still maintains it but he used to have links to all of the colleges in the US which was a great one stop short cut to college teams' web sites.

 

I thought this web site was to relay information about high school teams and their players.  It seems Mr. McKinney's posting fits in that category. 

Isn't a lot of what is posted on this web site "marketing, plain and simple?"  Travel teams post information on tryouts. Isn't that marketing for the teams?  Travel teams repeatedly post information on the success of their players at events (World Wooden Bat tournaments, for example) and work outs.  Isn't that marketing of both the teams and their players?  Posters, myself included, provide write-ups of games.  That is, in some respects, marketing of the players who were successful in those games.  The "All This", and "All That" teams are posted with regularity here.  Isn't that marketing of those players who played so well that they made the teams?

As for wanting to watch up and coming talent on the field, seeing information on a player might cause one to go watch a game in which he is playing.  I have attended MANY high school games in which my son was not playing and MANY high school games in which Western Branch was not a participant.  My interest in some of the games I attended, particularly to travel to the Beach District or Peninsula District, was sparked by having read something on this web site about a player or players on the team.

As a parent, I would be furious if someone posted a picture of my player on an unknown website without my permission, regardless of the reason. That is what was done here.
Interesting to note that many links on baseballclearinghouse.net were working yesterday but not as of now including the one of the player.
I must be missing something, if you just joined on 7/1 which articles are you referring to that you have posted?

Perhaps creating a "sticky" topic under each regional board for "Uncomitted XXXX Year" would be a good place for these posts (assuming one doesn't already exist.)

 

Since colleges tend to recruit regionally, it would be a logical place for these types of posts, and be much easier for a college coach to find info on kids that might help his program. 

 

Putting them on the "Virginia" board(or any other state) might get them lost as I can't see a coach scrolling through dozens of topics to find these "player" topics...but having a single topic that a coach could bookmark and check periodically might be helpful (you could do it by state, but then the coach would have to check several...where doing it by region they can just check one.)

 

Anyways, I have no problem with a player getting promoted (paid or not)...in the end it might help that kid find a team to extend their playing days another four years.

I dont see a coach scrolling through any topic to find a player.  There are so many other sites for that purpose.  There is a forum here for uncommited players?

The problem would be if he is promoting his business via this site and not paying to be a sponsor of this site. 

TPM, you say you would be furious if your players picture was posted on an unknown website?  So is this site "unknown"?   You would rave and boast if your players picture was in the newspaper, but you realize I'm sure that this IS the newspaper anymore.   Digital media is the new way to promote players.  I see NOTHING wrong with Mr. McKinney doing this.   Perhaps under a better thread title, yes.  

WB Reporter, I agree with your posts completely.  Why is this such a big deal?  Google search a players name and see what you find.  Do you really think Mom and Dad, or Coach even, needed to give permission for write ups or pictures to be posted about thier player?   Come on people.

Yes it could be unknown to me as the parent. 
Why has the OP taken down the link on his site about the player but not here?
Check it out...very outdated info.

A little perspective from one of the "old guard" here.

 

Many of us who contribute to this website hold a deep-seated belief that players and their families are not only entirely capable of directing their own recruiting processes; but that they also benefit immensely from doing so. An important part of this site's reason for being has always been to provide the resources to make that possible.

 

Thousands of players have taken the advice available here and put it to use to their benefit. It is for this reason that many of us continue to contribute after gaining so much from the site.

 

In my own case, I've had...and continue to have...the opportunity to talk with baseball coaches at all levels who recruit. When the subject of recruiting services comes up in conversations with them, it invariably elicits a response that is several times greater than that seen in this thread. 

 

I could go on and on, relating the responses I've heard; but, suffice to say that they tend to view recruiting services with an extremely jaundiced eye. They're notorious for exaggerating the qualities of the players they represent, and they're disrespected for encouraging their clients to broadcast pumped up emails and letters to any and all of the programs they have in their database.

 

So, to recap:

(1) We have a website that contains all the information needed to carry out a successful recruiting process.

(2) Many of us have benefited from having taken responsibility for our recruiting process.

(3) Many of us get angry when parties try to take advantage of the prospect of the site's free advertising potential.

(4) Those of us who know how many recruiters feel about recruiting services are compelled to speak up when those services come on here touting their capabilities.

 

Finally, if you're employed by a service that is compensated by its clients to promote them, you are a "paid representative."

Bobby,

You first brought attention to yourself to me as sketchy when you posted about Jacob Rich, who you obviously didn't know had committed. My conclusion is that you really do not know these players.

I visited your site yesterday and was able to poke around to get an idea of what you actually do but today all of your video links are not working as well as no more info on the player mentioned here. 

Also I found this.

http://www.baseballclearinghou...blic/pages/about.php

There is a line in there that says that you deliver info that is accurate. 

That obviously is not accurate.

 

Listen I don't care what showcase or what players are or are not paying you to attend or to be their recruiter (with or without pay). But it is important to show accuarate info and that you ARE UP to date on the player you are trying to promote (yes that is what you were doing).

That was why I made that comment regarding how I would feel as a parent. I don't want anyone posting info on my player if they cant give reliable info on others.  Maybe you do not understand that, but you should take into consideration what a parent is telling you what they prefer.  Do parents care, you bet they do. If I have spent money taking my son to a showcase I want to make sure that info is coming from a reliable scout, or coach, not someone who takes nice pictures.

 

This site is a great resource for finding and using information on the recruiting process, not a site for promoting players especially from a site that has given unreliable information.

 

BTW, how many account names do you actually have here? The reason I asked was because of this post

http://community.hsbaseballweb...m-and-mary-committed

 

I am sure that you can understand there is  much confusion.

 

For those suggesting a forum for unsigned (uncommitted players) there is one (which should be updated),  however you will notice that most of the posts really are for events that might be of benefit to them, you will rarely find a profile of a player here on the HSBBW for recruiting purposes. 

JMO

 

I forgot to give Prepster a +1, he has essentially laid out what this site is for. 

I am sure that he would be the first to tell you that college coaches, no matter what level or what division, don't visit the HSBBW to find players for their programs.

 

Also if the player has to rely on someone else posting his info for him here, perhaps he and his family didn't do their due diligence in the first place.

 

Well said TPM.  I have seen the posts you are referring to, as I did not previous to my first post regarding this thread. 

I visited the website in question and see a lot of dated material, lacking much depth of detail. 

Certainly sketchy.   I'll reserve further comment since I don't have the time to do much more research, but I'm inclined to now lean towards your point of view TPM.    Thanks for the detective work.   

No need for detective work

 

If you have a question, just ask.

 

Thanks,

Bobby

I did ask a few questions but u never answered.

Jimmy is getting quite a bit of exposure in this thread. Not sure it is the kind he necessarily is looking for. 

Sorry,  two accounts ,  Mid Atlantic Pirates , and Baseball Clearinghouse.

I did not mean to post the first post under the Mid Atlantic Pirates account, Jimmy does not play for us, he plays for the Tidewater Orioles.

 

I will state again NO player or family paid anything to have these pics posted.

Zero, Zilch, Nada.

 

I am posting them to same way a newspaper would post pictures.  This is the way things operate now.  The games are public events where pictures can be taken.  Again I do not make a dime off posting them.

 

The entire reason that posted the players pictures was to report information to "what I thought were" baseball hungry fans...you guys. 

 

The ability to post pictures and video is in the upload board for posting messages.  What is the criteria for posting pictures.  Maybe they should remove this feature.  Am I the first person to ever do this?

 

• I watermarked the pictures because in the past people have taken these pictures and sold them to the players/families.  All pictures are free for them to download and print. 
• Thou I am not the best photographer in the world,  The overwhelming percentage of parents and players are happy to have "action shot" of there player

 

 

 

I'm confused by the comment below:.

• Also if the player has to rely on someone else posting his info for him here, perhaps he and his family didn't do their due diligence in the first place.

 

• (This site is a great resource for finding and using information on the recruiting process, not a site for promoting players especially from a site that has given unreliable information.)

 

I see weekly post with the accolades of players form all over Virginia,  as it should be.

 

I'm not sure what you mean by unreliable information.  If we messed something up please let me know.

 

We have provided over 3500 passwords to college coaches so they can view our database , (all FREE of Charge)

 

 

 

Over the last 4 years we have added over 20,000 players to our database.  We can see which college coaches log in and review information.  Believe me we are credible to them. 

 

• As far as prepsters comment that no college coaches view message boards, I would not agree.  Thou it is not used to a great degree,  schools do use message boards and blogs to gather any information they can.

 

As with most things, you cannot use blanket statements like "never" or "always"

 

College recruiters as well as professional teams will use facebook, twitter, instagram, and any other sources to research players, all to varying degrees from seldom to often.  Character is very important

 

You can question my answers all you want, but remember,  I am in daily contact with college coaches 12 months out of the year.  I do know what the reality is.

 

 

• TPM, I do respect your opinion, anyone with over 10,000 post as spent time on this site.  Please recap any question I missed.

 

I guess my biggest question about the forum is

• Is this a site for Dad's and Mom's to exchange information.  If so then I really have no place in here.  There plenty of folks handling that.
• Is this a site to ridicule and attack anyone for stating an opinion.  Again, I have no interest in that.
• Is this a site to help grow the awareness of high school baseball players in Virginia to the Nation.  If so I think I do have a place.
• Is it a site to exchange solid information about high school and college baseball in Virginia.  Then I do think I have  place.

 

I guess this goes back to the oldest form of helping somebody out.  Parents ask me all the time , could you mention my sons name to the Coach at such and such school.  These post were a way of doing just that to any and all who view this site.

 

again, No one is making a penny off of this.

 

Thanks,

Bobby McKinney

 

Bobby,

 

I'm going to let someone correct me if I'm wrong, so I'm sure there will be a follow-up to this post. Bear with me here. 

 

 

We have provided over 3500 passwords to college coaches so they can view our database , (all FREE of Charge)

 

 

 

Over the last 4 years we have added over 20,000 players to our database.  We can see which college coaches log in and review information.  Believe me we are credible to them. 

 

I think some people here are taking exception to the perceived tone of the above two paragraphs. I have absolutely no doubt that you are trying to help players. I love seeing that. Players need advocates…especially advocates that 1) know what they're doing, and 2) know people in the game. However, from an outsider's standpoint, the above quote could be construed as marketing your business. While it is free for coaches to enter the database and you are giving players free "publicity" by posting their information in baseball-specific places (again, I am not opposed to this), the very first thing that jumps out on the website for your company is a sign-up for an event (that was, by the way, 5 weeks ago) in which players pay to attend.

 

I am NOT opposed to organizations profiting off of the ability to help advocate for players. But I think some of the pushback you're receiving is coming from the fact that this website is a free service. I have seen many people come on here and use the bandwidth to advertise their business. While I don't think you're blatantly doing this in a sense that you're solely attempting to use this website to make a profit, I do think that some of your posts come off as such.

 

There are two posters here, off the top of my head, that sometimes use the message boards to promote their respective businesses (both of which are a similar business to the one that you run). One's name is PGStaff, the other is PIS. Both of these people are paying sponsors of the website, helping to financially support the message boards that have been here for over a decade.

 

I'm not accusing you of any wrongdoings. I'm simply trying to explain what I believe is happening. If anyone else reading along feels any differently, please feel free to chime in.

 

 

Sincerely,

A Fellow Advocate

 

JH, that is about as accurate a position as I think can be posted.  Per my and other's responsibilities as moderators, we have to prevent this board from becoming a site that allows others to market their business unless they are sponsors of this site. 

 

Coach A comes onto the site.  Covertly markets his program/business.  Uses the site to state that he reaches thousands of perspective coaches with his business when, in reality, he uses hsbaseballweb.com.  That simply isn't acceptable. 

 

Bobby, if you have 3,500 coaches who have "passwords" and so many players (20,000) then one would think that you wouldn't need a site such as this to market your players.  JMHO!  As I've mentioned before, I've alerted MNMom and she gets paid the major bucks to make the tough decisions. 

 

Take care,

 

Darrell Butler

Reading comprehension is an issue here.

 

I never said that "no college coaches view message boards." What I said is that top-flight recruiters don't rely on high school message boards to get their leads.

 

You'd claimed that you'd intended that the player get recognized. Since it was implicit that the player's parents were clients of Baseball Clearinghouse's, I'd figured that you'd want him exposed to top-flight recruiters, so that they'd get their money's worth.

 

If, instead, you were simply interested in getting the player's name in front of some slacker who gets his leads off of here, I'm guilty of having misinterpreted the nature of your business.

I have been on this site for many many years, have helped many many parents and players in the recruiting process. I am not a coach, I am not a photographer I do not run showcases, or a team or have a website to assist in that process.  What a  fool I am,  I did it all for nothing!  I never used this site to promote my own player, a business, like others have. So enough with the Harper Valley PTA!

 

Pitchout31,

You are entitled to your opinion and I am to mine.

 

I got a pm from someone asking me if I knew who Bobby McKinney was.  Did that really matter?   Does that mean I have to agree with this topic or the way he handled this? No!  There have been really good discussions on how to use this site, the entire site.  Not sure if the OP gets what is being said to him.

 

If anything I noticed that Mr. McKinney has attempted to make some corrections to his webpages. BTW, baseball clearinghouse is free, but baseballinsider is $99 per year. I don't care what anyone says, business is business and the object in business is to make $$$.  I have no issue with that, but don't leave me to believe its all for free! 

 

I am still looking for those articles on recruiting that have been shared here over the years, can someone direct me to them?

 

BTW, I have and always will only ONE screen name.

 

 

I was being a bit sarcastic... my personal spin is that some people got way hopped over something very innocuous. Sheesh.