If you are a 2023 without one actual offer now, is it too late for you now...especially considering the overall situation with rosters due to the extra COVID-19 years?
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d3s are still recruiting, so no.
There is no blanket answer to that question. The only answer that applies across the board is “it depends.” Situations vary from region to region- and also vary depending on level of play.
In the Sun Belt the competitive D1s have filled their class of ‘23. A random need will appear a few places due to something unexpected but for the most part they are done. Same for competitive D2s. D3s and JuCos are well along the way but not finished yet.
So at this point in time, in my area, if you don’t have an offer it’s time to recalibrate your sights. Either the market is telling you that your expectations were unrealistic or your ability hasn’t been recognized and you have fallen thru the cracks. Either way it’s time to implement plan B in a hurry. There are still tryout camps on JuCo campuses in September. It’s not hard to set up individual tryouts if you have an advocate with JuCo coach connections. That would be a good avenue to pursue in this part of the country.
No matter what your initial strategy hasn’t worked very well if you have no offers yet - assuming that there isn’t an injury involved. Time to shift gears if baseball is important to you.
For D1 position player, maybe. Lots of coaches from all levels are still looking at pitchers. For high academic D3’s I believe if you don’t have a formal offer for a visit then you should change your sites.
Many non-D1’s are holding prospect camps over the next few weeks where I believe they will wrap up their classes.
A major injury just before expecting offers changed my son’s timeline. He received D1 offers the summer after graduation. The one he took was for the following year. He tried to walk on the first year. He lost out to a late bloomer pitcher now in the majors. His offer included athletic money the following year.
When do walk ons typically commit or make their decision? I know one 2023 that committed to an ACC last summer
@TerribleBPthrower posted:When do walk ons typically commit or make their decision? I know one 2023 that committed to an ACC last summer
D1 walk ons usually commit anywhere from 3 to 6 months before they are cut from the team.
This is peak D3 recruiting season. If you do not have an offer by October it would be time to consider which school is the best fit without baseball
There are so many regional differences. In Texas there are only 15 D3 schools that play baseball. By comparison, there are 28 NJCAA D1 schools that play baseball and all but a couple would wipe the field with the D3 programs if the played each other. They would hardly even be competitive games. I get the sense that it’s not that way in the Northeast. The uncommitted ‘23s around here are scrambling to find JuCo deals. Not D3 deals. Although more should be looking D3 than are.
D3 recruiting in New England is really busy right now and with so many D3 schools offering top educations as well, there are still a lot of good opportunities to be landed. I think the ED deadlines of 10-15-11/1 is when it really starts to end but even then there is time at many D3s into winter.
Massachusetts is the 15th largest state with a 7M population. There are 36 D3 baseball programs. 29 of them are in the Greater Boston area. This does not include D3 JuCo programs.
Tons of JUCO’s and D3’s to still be recruited by.
(Checks calendar). Isn’t it just late August? My 2021 committed to a D3 in late Sept/Early Oct of 2020
@adbono posted:There are so many regional differences. In Texas there are only 15 D3 schools that play baseball. By comparison, there are 28 NJCAA D1 schools that play baseball and all but a couple would wipe the field with the D3 programs if the played each other. They would hardly even be competitive games. I get the sense that it’s not that way in the Northeast. The uncommitted ‘23s around here are scrambling to find JuCo deals. Not D3 deals. Although more should be looking D3 than are.
Huge differences. D3/D2 and NAIA schools are way more prominent than DI schools in the upper midwest as well. There's also only a handful of highly competitive JUCO's within the upper midwest. There are actually only 4 DI schools within 250 miles of where I live (2 are P5 schools). For kids that want to play DI closer to home, the competition is extremely fierce! My son is the first DI baseball player to ever come out of our high school!!! The few that do go on to play college ball almost all play D3 and don't commit until late fall/early winter of their senior year.
@adbono posted:There are so many regional differences. In Texas there are only 15 D3 schools that play baseball. By comparison, there are 28 NJCAA D1 schools that play baseball and all but a couple would wipe the field with the D3 programs if the played each other. They would hardly even be competitive games. I get the sense that it’s not that way in the Northeast. The uncommitted ‘23s around here are scrambling to find JuCo deals. Not D3 deals. Although more should be looking D3 than are.
Up here you can't drive 15-20 minutes in any direction without running into a D3. Many of them are HA schools, which make playing D3 baseball more appealing than going to a juco for most. There is also snobbish attitude towards jucos up here which is undeserved. If you took a poll, odds are 80% of parents would rather send their kids to a below average, expensive, private college than juco for two years. It doesn't make sense. That being said...
The kids committing to jucos up here are either
A. D1 dropdowns
B. D1 recruits who never made it to campus or were injured during recruitment
C. Decent players who didn't have NCAA grades
@adbono posted:There are so many regional differences. In Texas there are only 15 D3 schools that play baseball. By comparison, there are 28 NJCAA D1 schools that play baseball and all but a couple would wipe the field with the D3 programs if the played each other. They would hardly even be competitive games. I get the sense that it’s not that way in the Northeast. The uncommitted ‘23s around here are scrambling to find JuCo deals. Not D3 deals. Although more should be looking D3 than are.
Very true. Another difference is costs. I think most or all of the TX D3s are private. We have an abundance of good public D3 baseball options in the northeast (especially PA and NY). That factors into the juco equation for some kids.
@MidAtlanticDad posted:Very true. Another difference is costs. I think most or all of the TX D3s are private. We have an abundance of good public D3 baseball options in the northeast (especially PA and NY). That factors into the juco equation for some kids.
Good point. To the best of my knowledge, the University of Texas-Dallas is the only public D3 in Texas that has a baseball program. And it isn’t cheap. COA at UTD is on par with Texas A&M and UT. Sticker price at private Texas D3 schools is higher but they “somehow” usually find enough financial aid to make out of pocket costs comparable. D3 schools in Texas by and large don’t get much respect - on both the athletic and educational front. Which is unfair because Austin College, Trinity, U of Dallas, Southwestern, and UTD (just to name a few) are fine academic institutions. At least they used to be. And D3 baseball has gotten noticeably better in the past 2 years as talent has been pushed down and more players have transferred to D3 schools.
@adbono posted:Good point. To the best of my knowledge, the University of Texas-Dallas is the only public D3 in Texas that has a baseball program. And it isn’t cheap. COA at UTD is on par with Texas A&M and UT. Sticker price at private Texas D3 schools is higher but they “somehow” usually find enough financial aid to make out of pocket costs comparable. D3 schools in Texas by and large don’t get much respect - on both the athletic and educational front. Which is unfair because Austin College, Trinity, U of Dallas, Southwestern, and UTD (just to name a few) are fine academic institutions. At least they used to be. And D3 baseball has gotten noticeably better in the past 2 years as talent has been pushed down and more players have transferred to D3 schools.
@adbono posted:There are so many regional differences. In Texas there are only 15 D3 schools that play baseball. By comparison, there are 28 NJCAA D1 schools that play baseball and all but a couple would wipe the field with the D3 programs if the played each other. They would hardly even be competitive games. I get the sense that it’s not that way in the Northeast. The uncommitted ‘23s around here are scrambling to find JuCo deals. Not D3 deals. Although more should be looking D3 than are.
You don't think Trinity could compete with most jucos not named MCC or San Jac?
@langra posted:
No I don’t. Trinity would not complete well with the D1 Texas JuCos. They would win some but overall they would be lacking in every aspect except GPA and maybe baseball IQ. I saw Trinity play in the super regional against UTD last year and was not impressed. Especially with what I saw on the mound. Texas JuCo players are much bigger, faster, and stronger. They are much more of a physical presence and the JuCo rosters have way better overall athletes top to bottom.
We had a baserunning competition at the end of one of our practices last week. The 5 fastest players each started at home plate and ran all the way around the bases for time. The SLOWEST of the 5 times was 13.5 seconds (hand timed). The fastest was 11.93 seconds. That is elite team speed. Team goal is to steal 150 bags this spring.
There is no comparing JuCo to D3 in Texas. The exception being the D3 JuCos in the Dallas Community College Conference. And even Eastfield College (which won that conference last year and was national D3 JuCo runner up) would be a handful for Trinity to deal with.
@adbono posted:No I don’t. Trinity would not complete well with the D1 Texas JuCos. They would win some but overall they would be lacking in every aspect except GPA and maybe baseball IQ. I saw Trinity play in the super regional against UTD last year and was not impressed. Especially with what I saw on the mound. Texas JuCo players are much bigger, faster, and stronger. They are much more of a physical presence and the JuCo rosters have way better overall athletes top to bottom.
I didn't think Trinity looked as good or as physical last year as I've seen them in the past. I assumed covid and transfers affected recruiting and roster. Feels like teams I've seen in the past would have been fine against all but a few JUCOs. Granted, right now MCC, San Jac, Weatherford, Blinn (after all the Grayson kids transferred) and surprisingly TJC have better rosters than they ever have. But idk that Northeast, Hill, Howard, Temple, Ranger, Vernon, Alvin etc are clearly better than most Trinity teams. Hard to tell with Trinity facing mostly poor competition in conference and this area. Just going solely on eyeball test.
I will cite one specific example which is representative of many that I have seen. A few years ago a kid from Southlake started out at Northeast Texas CC. Hardly a powerhouse program. Fair to say bottom third of D1 Texas JuCos. This kid was a platoon player there for 2 years. Hit about .260 - maybe less. Transferred to UTD and was a star. Was All Conference both years and hit close to .350.
That is a good indication of the amount of disparity in the pitching between D3 schools in Texas and D1 JuCos in Texas.
@adbono posted:I will cite one specific example which is representative of many that I have seen. A few years ago a kid from Southlake started out at Northeast Texas CC. Hardly a powerhouse program. Fair to say bottom third of D1 Texas JuCos. This kid was a platoon player there for 2 years. Hit about .260 - maybe less. Transferred to UTD and was a star. Was All Conference both years and hit close to .350.
That is a good indication of the amount of disparity in the pitching between D3 schools in Texas and D1 JuCos in Texas.
Sure--there's no comparison overall. I was just singling out Trinity as an exception. The rest of D3 in Texas isnt very good.
@langra posted:I didn't think Trinity looked as good or as physical last year as I've seen them in the past. I assumed covid and transfers affected recruiting and roster. Feels like teams I've seen in the past would have been fine against all but a few JUCOs. Granted, right now MCC, San Jac, Weatherford, Blinn (after all the Cisco kids transferred) and surprisingly TJC have better rosters than they ever have. But idk that Northeast, Hill, Howard, Temple, Ranger, Vernon, Alvin etc are clearly better than most Trinity teams. Hard to tell with Trinity facing mostly poor competition in conference and this area. Just going solely on eyeball test.
Don’t agree with you at all. Hill, Howard, Temple, Ranger, and Alvin are all better than Trinity. The players that advance from those schools go to very good D2 programs and/or D1 mid majors. The D3 schools recruit the bench players in NJCAA Region 5.
If you want to crown Trinity as the gold standard for D3 baseball in Texas I would not take issue with that.
Not exactly a high bar to be sure.
I think it seems that way because some of the best D1 programs in America are in Texas. Typically Texas A&M, Texas, Texas Tech, TCU, and DBU are nationally ranked. In D2 you have Angelo State & West Texas A&M usually among the best in the nation. So the bar in other divisions is really high. I do think East Texas Baptist and Texas Lutheran have gotten much better and I expect Southwestern to get better as well. The D3 bar just isn’t as high in Texas b/c there just aren’t near as many elite level programs compared to D1/D2. Just my 2 cents.
One more parting shot. The best D3 position player that I have seen is Brandon George. He played 3B at UTD in 2014, 2015, & 2016. Was All Conference all 3 years. Had career .370 BA and career OPS of 1.000 - and was also a plus defender. He spent his freshman year at San Jac. Where he wasn’t good enough to get on the field. Only had 7 at bats all year.
If you are a 2023 today (end of September) and you don't have an offer yet, is it too late?
Good morning @Francis7, I think it might be relative to what he can offer and his expectations. It was the end of October of my son's senior year before he did a tryout and verbally committed to Hill College (juco). I believe this was the approximate timing or others that went to Hill College from later classes too (seems like after my son, Hill took someone from my son's HS every year for a while). @adbono would know more about the juco route than anyone, if that's a consideration. I also believe that several kids that went the NAIA route were late commits too. Good luck to you and your son.
Thanks. My kid is a 22. Thinking about a friend with a 23. Poor kid is a baseball rat with zero offers. I really hope something comes up for him. Kid really works hard.
@francis. I think this is an interesting post. In our state, I see a huge number of really good (typically D1) players without commitments yet. I believe they all aimed too high in the COVID portal world; reality has set in; and they are all scrambling. Knowing a lot of these kids, they either don't have the grades for some D3s or are too proud to go that route. It must be chaos right now.
@Dadbelly2023 nailed it. There are some really good players in my area with nothing. Some are position players still thinking D1. There are also a few definitely targeting juco and they are right on schedule with those.
Again, I credit adbono for our 2023 committing to a D2 last winter. If you look back, he's been right about a lot of stuff: ranging from COVID to Portal. Of course, he is completely wrong about my 2025LHP not being a D1 pitcher but that's OK. lol. It's made 2025 work harder.
It's not too late for D3's. My son's team had four recruits visiting campus this weekend. The sophomores were assigned to entertain ("G rated ") the recruits on Friday evening: take them to dinner in the dining hall, take photos at a spot downtown, show them their dorm rooms and have them back on campus to their parents by 9:00pm. They attended the Saturday scrimmage.
This is a generalization, but here is the perspective of a typical JuCo regarding the class of ‘23 recruits. (Using a top 50 D1 Texas JuCo as an example) : Currently have 10 commits. Many other offers outstanding. Still need a SS & LHP. There are 24 scholarships to give at this school, so assuming 12 per year on average, the ‘23 class is almost down to walk-on offers. Lesser programs, and programs in colder regions of the country, may not be this far along.
One thing that many people don’t understand about college baseball recruiting is that there is a fiscal component to it at many schools. And this is true in JuCo, D3, D2, D1 & NAIA. At many schools the sports programs (including baseball) have minimum target numbers that are given to them by Athletic Directors in order to generate tuition revenue for the schools. That’s why walk-on offers are so dicey. You may be really wanted but the school is out of money. Or you may only be wanted because you are willing to pay full tuition. You best know which category you fall into when considering a walk-on offer. And this is exactly where most players/parents fail to read the tea leaves accurately.
And finally, I will reiterate something I said months back. A lot of D1/D2 schools don’t currently want to recruit HS seniors. They would rather have experienced players out of JuCo or the transfer portal. There are many reasons for this but some of the main ones are : players with college experience are more ready to make an immediate impact, JuCo & portal players have already had the attitude of entitlement knocked out them and they are hungry, and more of these players can be lured in with less financial commitment. Simply put, players with college experience are realistic and HS players are not. Last weekend I attended the Texas/New Mexico JuCo All Star Games at DBU. There were more than a dozen MLB scouts and over 100 4 year schools in attendance looking for players. The talent level was very impressive - especially the position players. And many of these players don’t have deals yet. Just saying, times are still tough for ‘23 HS recruits.
Are there some D1 programs that are insulated from this trend? Say Rice or Pepperdine or wiiliam mary where the need for academic fit reduces the juco and transfer portal mix?
@Dadbelly2023 posted:Are there some D1 programs that are insulated from this trend? Say Rice or Pepperdine or wiiliam mary where the need for academic fit reduces the juco and transfer portal mix?
I’m not sure if insulated would be the right word, but there are certainly schools (like the ones you mentioned - and most D3s) that are not as transfer player orientated. However, even some schools that have traditionally not taken transfers are starting to loosen their belt on that issue.
@adbono posted:And finally, I will reiterate something I said months back. A lot of D1/D2 schools don’t currently want to recruit HS seniors. They would rather have experienced players out of JuCo or the transfer portal. There are many reasons for this but some of the main ones are : players with college experience are more ready to make an immediate impact, JuCo & portal players have already had the attitude of entitlement knocked out them and they are hungry, and more of these players can be lured in with less financial commitment. Simply put, players with college experience are realistic and HS players are not.
The school my 2020 ended up at has 20 returning players, and 17 kids from JUCOs or the transfer portal. They were very senior heavy last year and lost 2 players to the draft, but it looks like they planned a very small recruiting class for 22s and 23s because of the current landscape.
@Dadbelly2023 posted:Are there some D1 programs that are insulated from this trend? Say Rice or Pepperdine or wiiliam mary where the need for academic fit reduces the juco and transfer portal mix?
Not sure about all, but saw on social media yesterday that Navy just took a a player via the transfer portal....
To add on to Adbono's last post. I've been to four of Arkansas's scrimmages this Fall. They had two top 100 players make it to campus. Both are fighting to get in the lineup and both have flashed at times and both have been very inconsistent at times. The rest? They all look to be fighting to make the roster and that's not counting the four who were dropped this Summer before they ever got to campus. The guys who have shined have been the D1 transfers and some of the JUCO recruits. The difference in a proven D1 transfer and a HS kid (and really most JUCO kids) is night and day. The portal is going to a be a major problem for HS and some JUCO players moving forward. I think it will push the timeline back for JUCO players which is going to cause a lot of stress. My guess is that committing in June and July for JUCO's to 4 years becomes the new norm.