I think it is good that there are so many different paths represented here. I will contribute to conversations that I feel I have some knowledge on and others, I won't because I have zero experience, but someone else does. I think the conversations of late have tended to be about how cut throat D1/P5 has become, because it does trickle down. There are some players that 100% have the talent to play D1 that are having to move down, which will then push others down. We have a kid that started in the Cape Cod championship game this summer. Sits 93-94...he just got cut and will be taking someone's D2 starting position in a few months.
@atlnon posted:To answer the original question, my son was just offered by a D1 mid major last Fri. Unfortunately, they don't stack athletic and academic (is this very common?). The amount he will get from either is similar so we chose academic as he has opportunity of getting more in academic money come Feb/Mar. Coach also said that it's possible (although rare) to get athletic money after year 1 and that can stack on top of academic he already has, but the other way is not possible.
I tried to do my research but not sure if I know enough to do a thorough research. They took 10 HS players in 2021, 5 in 2022, and 9 in 2023 (as of today). Coach said they do take in Juco players but don't really play in the transfer portal. Since my son will not be taking athletic scholarship, my understanding is he will not need to sign an NLI, correct? We asked the coach if going with academic scholarship means he is treated as a preferred walk on with no assurance of a roster spot compared to someone going with athletic scholarship. Coach said they still will have an agreement that the school and my son will sign that commits my son to the school and commits a roster spot to my son. Hope this all makes sense. Is there anything I need to be careful of or look out for?
I think that I can add some insight to the Stacking academic scholarship question and why it is different from school to school.
Each school is different depending upon how they handle academic scholarships. In years past no one could stack scholarships because almost all academic institutions had scholarship boards/committees that awarded academic scholarships to students based upon their application. It was a subjective process. The NCAA doesn't allow stacking of academic scholarships under such a subjective process for fear that academic scholarships are being used to circumvent the NCAA scholarship rules. Many of the institutions have started to move away from that in large part because of accusations of unfair scholarship awarding practices. They have instead instituted sliding scales that predetermine the award based upon set parameters. In instances such as this then the NCAA allows academic scholarships to be awarded to athletes and not count against the scholarship limitations.
So for example if your son is going to school A, that doesn't use a predetermined sliding scale, then the academic scholarship can't be stacked. If he were to go to school B, where every incoming freshman academic awards are predetermine based upon the merit sliding scale (ie.. a 4.0 GPA and 27 ACT equals $10,000 academic award for all students that meet that criteria) then you can stack the $10,000 on top of the Athletic scholarship as long as you have those GPA/ACT numbers. Also, some states have land grant scholarships for their citizens also. Those can be stacked as well if you are a citizen of that state and go to a state institution that qualifies for those awards.
As far as not being able to stack as a Freshman, but can stack as a Sophomore and beyond. That is typically true if the institution has predetermined scholarships available for current students. For example.... You son attends School A as a freshman and finishes his first year with a 3.5 GPA. School A happens to have a "Retention Scholarship" for all Sophomore students who completed a Freshman year with that GPA. If this is the case then the academic scholarship can be stacked with the athletic scholarship in subsequent years.
I hope that I explained that well.
I've read a lot of old threads on this site. People always did ask questions about D3 schools, but 10-20 years ago the answers to those questions were not very helpful at all. Now there is a pretty good representation of posters from all levels, so that questions about P5 and the draft get experienced answers, and so do questions about D3 and juco. That is a good thing, since where a person thinks their son is going might not, in fact, be where he ends up.
For coaches, I think there's a difference between a team that consistently goes .050, and a team that is closer to .400. With the former, the school might wonder why they are paying for that sport at all, and it would be hard to recruit in order to improve. But being below .500 still offers the chance of having a standout year or some signature wins, and if the coach is graduating good people, then why not keep him? I would imagine that in many cases it would also depend on what the alumni want, and at most schools, the only alumni who care about the baseball team are going to be former players.
The "Pro Scout" team is a valuable tool for a HS player to prepare for the next step in his pursuit of College baseball.
In California, Arizona and Nevada every player has this opportunity. In the Fall the "Scout" teams with wood bats play JC College and Division 2 programs. PRO SCOUTS COACH THE TEAMS.
For 3 years, I managed the Cubs scout team in Northern California.
The player receives the Scouts evaluation of his talents for College and the recommend level of entrance.
Why be frustrated when you can prepare by playing "Up" to a higher level.
Bob
@2017 Lefty Dad posted:What happened to the kinder/gentler HSBB attitude about helping high school kids looking for a place to play baseball in college? What happened to most the idea that most "decent" players can probably find a place to play college ball albeit not necessarily a perfect match? There are lots of players that care about winning that don't have the skills to ever sniff a D1 lineup - much less the CWS - but will grind it out four years of college baseball, in front of a few family and friends, in hopes of winning each game. I never took this site for a "P5 or die" approach and rather enjoyed to discussions about D3 baseball opportunities.
Can anyone quote the number of high school kids committing to a P5 baseball program yearly? Any one know what percentage P5 commits comprise of all high school kids heading to college to play baseball (as well as hopefully get an education at the same time)? I'll throw out 5%. This site IMO was never how to get your kid signed by a P5 school (usual comment was if you are good enough for P5 - then P5 will find you). This site - again IMO - was about the other 95% (assuming my wild guess 5% is correct).
I'm not sure why you went into a rant about playing P5. I didn't mention P5. I asked who tries to get into a poor college baseball program at any level? The only reason to do so would be to use baseball to get into the college for it's high end academics. Brown would be a good example.
I believe most college baseball prospects don't put perennial losers on their list unless it's an high academic priority or a family legacy college. Ultimately some players might decide they want to play so badly they will play anywhere. Check out Coppin State about ten plus years ago until the new coach turned them around a little. They're now competitive in conference.
I will agree with Adbono. Been here under a different name but had to change because I could not login under old one when job changed for 16 years. When I came here, my middle son was almost at the bottom because he was going to a mid major. I never heard anything but D1 mentioned on here until just recently. Not saying it was the right way but it was the way it was.
@RJM posted:I'm not sure why you went into a rant about playing P5. I didn't mention P5. I asked who tries to get into a poor college baseball program at any level? The only reason to do so would be to use baseball to get into the college for it's high end academics. Brown would be a good example.
I believe most college baseball prospects don't put perennial losers on their list unless it's an high academic priority or a family legacy college. Ultimately some players might decide they want to play so badly they will play anywhere. Check out Coppin State about ten plus years ago until the new coach turned them around a little. They're now competitive in conference.
He was talking about you? 🤷
@Dadbelly2023 posted:He was talking about you? 🤷
Yes, he pretty much was.
@RJM posted:Who is looking at these program? Not players who care about winning. Granted some players will use the baseball program to get into the college. Once in caring about playing is a toss up.
I'm not sure you understood my post. If you did are you suggesting that no one is looking or should be looking at 100 D1 baseball programs which make up the bottom third? May want to get off your high horse, thinking that only players that don't care about winning would consider these 100 institutions.
Anyway, my point was and is, not every coach is looking at every decision as a life or death decision, and feeding their family and paying their mortgage depends on it. It's a cliche saying that isn't applicable.
@nycdad posted:I'm not sure you understood my post. If you did are you suggesting that no one is looking or should be looking at 100 D1 baseball programs which make up the bottom third? May want to get off your high horse, thinking that only players that don't care about winning would consider these 100 institutions.
Anyway, my point was and is, not every coach is looking at every decision as a life or death decision, and feeding their family and paying their mortgage depends on it. It's a cliche saying that isn't applicable.
Maybe not every decision. But the most important decisions a coach makes is about how to win and keep his job or move up to a better one. Would you expect a coach to care more about your kid that feeding his family?
And yes, there are some baseball programs so irrelevant to the university as long as the coach doesn’t commit a crime he has a job.
If someone chose a lower-ranked program regardless of the division, there could be many reasons to go that route. Sometimes, you can catch a program on the rise. Sometimes, one player can turn a program around in the other direction. Sometimes, the ugly duckling turns into a beautiful swan.
There Is risk with any decision that might be made regardless of how prestigious (or lack thereof) a program is. I do agree that our site tends to focus on D1 and pro prospects.
I wish infielddad would post in this thread. His son, from California, was an All-American at Trinity University in Texas. His team was a regional qualifier for the D3 College World Series. Was drafted by the Blue Jays and saw his career cut short due to a shoulder injury. His son is now a high school athletic director based in no small part to the education he received at Trinity and his strong sports background. Both of them are now working to see the grandson succeed at baseball and in life.
Well. Theres a fair amount of busting down and self assuredness here. But mostly I just pop the noise filter and learn and help where I can
Oh yeah. Infielddad. I know him. He was the guy who mocked me when i was trying to prop up a kid. Something like no infielder at any level of D3 or naia throws just upper 70s. Case in point
Cheers.
There’s a big difference between catching a program on the rise than choosing a perennial loser. There are times you can see a incoming coach has been a success turning around a lower level program and is likely to do the same at his new destination.
@RJM posted:There’s a big difference between catching a program on the rise than choosing a perennial loser. There are times you can see a incoming coach has been a success turning around a lower level program and is likely to do the same at his new destination.
All that is true. However, turning around a program that is a perennial loser is a process. One exceptional player doesn’t do it. It takes a few good recruiting classes stacked on top of one another. Typically it’s a 3-5 year time frame.
@adbono posted:All that is true. However, turning around a program that is a perennial loser is a process. One exceptional player doesn’t do it. It takes a few good recruiting classes stacked on top of one another. Typically it’s a 3-5 year time frame.
Exactly. Then the player runs the risk of that coach leaving to jump up another level. My son chose a coach who turned a mid major and a P5 into winners. He left in the middle of my son’s college experience for a lot of money to attempt to return a former perennial powerhouse to glory.
My son didn’t like the new coach. But that coach was fast tracking from top ranked program assistant to head coach to ranked program coach.
I hope no one from this region takes this as an insult. My son also isn’t from a baseball hotbed. But where would any coach on the rise prefer to coach and recruit? The Midwest or in a Southern or Western baseball hot bed? If a program is on the rise in a less than ideal location for recruiting you run the risk of the coach not being there by the time you graduate.
Adbono;
Time for the Perspective College player to list his priorities.
#1 His future life career and College major.
#2 The baseball program, Can I play on this team based on my skills and game experiences? Has one of the Coaches evaluate my tools.
#3 Do I have friend playing on this team? What are his opinion of my chances of playing on the 25 player roster.
#4 How strong is the baseball program in the Athletic Director's policy. How does the Baseball Coach select his new players? Pro scout, showcases, personal contacts, camps.
#5 How many current players have a Athletic scholarship?
#6 As a right handed hitter, what is the distance to Left Field fence and does the wind blow out? "self assurance" is the key to playing.
Bob
@Consultant posted:Adbono;
Time for the Perspective College player to list his priorities.
#1 His future life career and College major.
#2 The baseball program, Can I play on this team based on my skills and game experiences? Has one of the Coaches evaluate my tools.
#3 Do I have friend playing on this team? What are his opinion of my chances of playing on the 25 player roster.
#4 How strong is the baseball program in the Athletic Director's policy. How does the Baseball Coach select his new players? Pro scout, showcases, personal contacts, camps.
#5 How many current players have a Athletic scholarship?
#6 As a right handed hitter, what is the distance to Left Field fence and does the wind blow out? "self assurance" is the key to playing.
Bob
That is a very good list. I don't see how anyone can determine #4 and #5.
I was looking at the D1 transfer portal at a particular school and noticed that they had 10 players listed in the transfer portal. However, only 5 are players that I found on their perfect game commitment list over the past five years. I assume that some of these other players were "walk on" players that were at some point on the roster?
@Ster posted:That is a very good list. I don't see how anyone can determine #4 and #5.
I was looking at the D1 transfer portal at a particular school and noticed that they had 10 players listed in the transfer portal. However, only 5 are players that I found on their perfect game commitment list over the past five years. I assume that some of these other players were "walk on" players that were at some point on the roster?
All of Bob’s posts contain good info. To determine the answers to #4 & #5 you will have to talk to people in the program and ask them. None of that is proprietary information. But it’s also not likely to be offered to you if you don’t ask. Anyone on the coaching staff can provide that information. Players in the program can also answer those questions. Former players can too. It’s very difficult to find ALL the information you want online. You have to talk to people to get the blanks filled in.
Adbono
The Perspective player and family should visit a practice and or games. During BP Interact with the parents, the “red shirts “, radio announcer and the scorekeeper. Does the AD attend the baseball games?
At the end of 3 hours you will have the info.
Bob
@Consultant posted:Adbono
The Perspective player and family should visit a practice and or games. During BP Interact with the parents, the “red shirts “, radio announcer and the scorekeeper. Does the AD attend the baseball games?
At the end of 3 hours you will have the info.Bob
Yes sir! 100% correct.
I don't know how that happens. How would you know parents or redshirts? How would you get to scorekeeper or announcer? All of those are not available at D1 or even decent size juco's. Getting to interact with others takes a lot of work and I don't see it happening at games very much. We found people that we knew someone who knew them or someone who played travel ball with them and talked to those parents and players. I'm wondering what information you would ask the announcer and radio guy because I can't even imagine talking to them much less asking them anything. I also can't imagine them giving you legit information since they are normally employees of school. I also never talked to a redshirt because I assumed they were either hurt or they were upset they were redshirted.
We did talk to pitchers if they were behind home plate. They would talk with no reservations.
@Ster posted:That is a very good list. I don't see how anyone can determine #4 and #5.
I was looking at the D1 transfer portal at a particular school and noticed that they had 10 players listed in the transfer portal. However, only 5 are players that I found on their perfect game commitment list over the past five years. I assume that some of these other players were "walk on" players that were at some point on the roster?
Some kids are not on PG commitment list but on PBR or vice versa (for example my kid did not tell PG but told the local PBR rep...PG was for the most part a waste of money IMO for my Minnesota kid...I definitely could be wrong about that opinion too).
A couple of ways to get info is to seek out kids (or most likely your kid seek out but tread lightly) thru instagram (my kid did this with a school he was interested in and had some very early contact with) or attend a camp (usually there are kids from the team past or present working the camp). If you want to get some most likely biased dirt then seek out the kids that are/were in the transfer portal or the roster in the past and are no longer there. It requires a little online work but often can find kids new teams and figure out a way to maybe do a direct message or find out info thru other means. You can also sometimes get some dirt about programs from JUCO coaches (that either send kids from JUCO > the school or take their drop downs). Yet another way is to seek out info thru your travel programs alumni or teammates of alumni...definitely 7 degrees of baseball separation in the college baseball world...
We developed a relationship with a coach who had no spot for my son but liked him (and me). He gave us a bunch of very useful info on programs that were recruiting my kid and that he was considering.
Lots of ways to sleuth out info but just require varied amounts of work or connecting...most people here feel like it is worth some work to try to get their kids to a place that they might have a better chance of success. I know that I did...there were a couple of programs that I never mentioned to my kid and would have definitely told him about any big warts or other issues I potentially saw at that program.
@PitchingFan posted:I don't know how that happens. How would you know parents or redshirts? How would you get to scorekeeper or announcer? All of those are not available at D1 or even decent size juco's. Getting to interact with others takes a lot of work and I don't see it happening at games very much. We found people that we knew someone who knew them or someone who played travel ball with them and talked to those parents and players. I'm wondering what information you would ask the announcer and radio guy because I can't even imagine talking to them much less asking them anything. I also can't imagine them giving you legit information since they are normally employees of school. I also never talked to a redshirt because I assumed they were either hurt or they were upset they were redshirted.
We did talk to pitchers if they were behind home plate. They would talk with no reservations.
What Bob described would be impractical at a SEC game that has 7000 spectators. But it’s very practical advice for almost anywhere else. I have literally done everything he mentioned. At JuCo games, at D1 mid major games, and at D2 & D3 games. Players are always approachable whether they are in the stands (injured, redshirted, or charting pitches) or just milling about the ballpark. Most parents are also more than happy to talk about what they know. And yes, I have also spoken to game announcers and radio broadcast guys. You can get a lot of information at most baseball games if you try.
I just can't imagine it at a D1 game or even at most juco games I have been to unless you are there real early or after the game. I must admit never been to D2, D3, or NAIA games. I've talked to parents but I found 2 types of parents and even see it today at our games. The parent who thinks everything is always great no matter what. They usually do not even know what is happening behind the scenes and their kids don't tell them anything. There is also the parents who are disgruntled. Very few parents are realistic about what is going on in the program and willing to talk to anyone about it if it is not good.
@PitchingFan, your characterization of types of parents is pretty accurate. But it’s not hard to figure out which type you are talking to and there are usually some that have a baseball background of sorts. Those are the ones I try to talk to. Actually JuCo games are the easiest of all to talk to players & parents. Before, during, and after the game.
Adbono;
The SEC would be a challenge, however we could achieve our goals. They have a special parents section, a special scouts section.
Since I know the scouts, I would start with the scouts.They all would be interested in Coaching our American teams to Australia.
Years ago, I have broadcasted pro games the local announcer would be interesting.He has a background on each player.
The Scorekeeper would like my story of the Australian scorekeepers with 5 different color pens. The "red shirts" always sit together and are open to personal questions and Summer League opportunities.
Bob
Bob, you don’t have to convince me. I agree with you.
@Consultant posted:Adbono
The Perspective player and family should visit a practice and or games. During BP Interact with the parents, the “red shirts “, radio announcer and the scorekeeper. Does the AD attend the baseball games?
At the end of 3 hours you will have the info.Bob
I attended games, chatted up a parent and asked, “How did your son end up here?” By the time they finish you will know everything you want to know about the program.
I came away with “Go where you’re loved” from asking a NC State dad if UNC also recruited his son. He responded, “UNC showed interest. NC State showed love. You go where you’re loved.” The kid was starting in right as a freshman.
@Ster posted:I think that I can add some insight to the Stacking academic scholarship question and why it is different from school to school.
This section of the D1 manual includes the 8/1/20 changes that exempted more types of institutional aid (including need-based ) from baseball's 11.7 scholarship limit.
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@MidAtlanticDad posted:This section of the D1 manual includes the 8/1/20 changes that exempted more types of institutional aid (including need-based ) from baseball's 11.7 scholarship limit.
Thank you for sharing that. I believe that the key to stacking academic scholarships or not is found in (Section b) of the NCAA code where it states, "A nondiscretionary institutional merit-based award...."
If it is an academic scholarship that is awarded to all students who meet a specific criteria ie.... everyone with a 30 or more ACT gets a Presidential Scholarship of $10,000, then it can be granted in addition to the Athletic scholarship for baseball. Also, if it is a state program that is nondiscretionary then it is stackable. So, if the State of Main has a program where all graduates of a Main high school with a 3.0 GPA receives a specific scholarship regardless of school that they attend, then this is stackable as well.
However, if the award is given via a subjective process in which not all enrollees at the institution are considered then it is not stackable with athletic scholarship.
This is how it was explained to me, and it appears that the code you linked above confirms that.
@adbono and @PitchingFan we actually asked if our son could talk to some of the players. Our thinking was at a game with thousands of fans, parents are too into the game to want to talk to parents of a recruit. The coaches had him talk to two of the freshman OFs, one who is 6'6" and was considered "raw" like my son and the other was the only black player on the roster. One battled hard for ABs and the other redshirted. They just chatted about their experiences and positively reinforced what he was already thinking about the team dynamics, the coaches and his ultimate decision. It was helpful because they shared perspectives very relevant to him.