PG 17U WWBA /National Academic /Sunshine Northeast /Atlantic Coast Top Prospect

PG can be powerful for sure.  Depending upon many things its not for everyone.  You're son will be a needle in a haystack.   They have tens of thousands of kids they're looking at any given weekend at tournaments alone.  There showcases are 400-500 kids minimum.  College coaches mostly incognito on sidelines so you never know if you may have caught an eye.  99% will leave the showcase and or tournament never hearing a word from anyone that might have seen them.  88 max velo is good but that will not even get you a look.  You've got to hit the magic 90 to get any head to turn.   Unless you're a FOR SURE high round draftable prospect you're wasting your money.  Try Benchmarkshowcase.com these guys keep showcases small, players work WITH COAHCES ON THE FEILD.  Honest feedback including written scouting reports written by college coaches in attendance.  Hope this help!

Backyard,

Why not just go ahead and promote what you want.  Because your information is wrong.  Always have to wonder when a new poster brings an endorsement.

Backyard,

You could not be more wrong with your entire post.  We are now all dumber about showcases for having read it.

Why not just post the meme Redbird?

Backyard posted:

PG can be powerful for sure.  Depending upon many things its not for everyone.  You're son will be a needle in a haystack. . .

 . . . that's one needle of a thousand in that haystack.   And if that haystack is where I need to go to find a needle, then . . . .???  

That's fine, It's no matter to me.  I've personally been through these and know first hand so thought I'd offer.  Simply posting to help kids, athletes and coaches. 

 I have been through this as a parent and hundreds of times each year as a coach and my results are very different than yours, backyard. 

backyard -- everything I have read on this site is contrary to what you wrote.

The original posters question is a good one tho. when should tournaments be utilized and when should showcases be used and what are the pros and cons of each?

I would highly recommend the Complete Showcase.  Guaranteed a minimum amount of coaches (usually 30 but could be up to 100) and a maximum amount of participants.  Your son will be evaluated by 2 college coaches but will be looked at by more.   No more wondering if a college scout or coach will be at a game or whether you have to make the championship round to be seen.    

We have little experience but we have heard that unless your kid is D1 talent don't go to PG (other than the academic one) so whether true or not that rumor is out there!

If he has never done a PG showcase, your son may want to attend at least one late spring/early summer to see where he is relative to his peers and get some updated video and verified numbers.  If he does well enough, he could receive an invite to the PG National Showcase, which is loaded with college coaches who want to see the best match ups.  As far as tournament play this summer, USA Baseball 17U National Team Championships (east or west), 17U WWBA, and an Area Code tryout if you can get an invite are your best bets. Good luck!

Thanks for all the posts. My 2017 has been to two PG WWBA tournaments, but not to any of the PG showcases yet. That is what prompted my initial question about the value and relative pros and cons of PG run tournaments and showcases. At tournaments, the players are evaluated on game performances and that is always a hit or miss in my opinion (depending on where you play for example at Lakepoint or area HS fields, who you are playing, and who is watching you at any given point when you are pitching). My 2017 has not been to a PG showcase, and does not have any video or updated verified numbers as mentioned by the previous post. I wonder if at an National Academic Showcase or a Top Prospect or a Sunshine Showcase, will there me more eyes watching?. Do games played at Showcase events count just as much as in tourneys where the win/loss is not an issue? Do they attract a better assembly of coaches, as there probably are fewer players? Just wishing to see where to put our emphasis this Summer. As I mentioned, my son will play at the 17U WWBA tourney, but we wish to add a couple showcases - but only if they are of value. We appreciate the feedback received.

Phanatic2008WS posted:

Thanks for all the posts. My 2017 has been to two PG WWBA tournaments, but not to any of the PG showcases yet. That is what prompted my initial question about the value and relative pros and cons of PG run tournaments and showcases. At tournaments, the players are evaluated on game performances and that is always a hit or miss in my opinion (depending on where you play for example at Lakepoint or area HS fields, who you are playing, and who is watching you at any given point when you are pitching). My 2017 has not been to a PG showcase, and does not have any video or updated verified numbers as mentioned by the previous post. I wonder if at an National Academic Showcase or a Top Prospect or a Sunshine Showcase, will there me more eyes watching?. Do games played at Showcase events count just as much as in tourneys where the win/loss is not an issue? Do they attract a better assembly of coaches, as there probably are fewer players? Just wishing to see where to put our emphasis this Summer. As I mentioned, my son will play at the 17U WWBA tourney, but we wish to add a couple showcases - but only if they are of value. We appreciate the feedback received.

Phanatic,

Comparing a PG showcase to a PG tournament is apples and oranges.  Both are fruits and a necessary part of recruiting, IMO, but they accomplish different goals.

The PG Tournament is where players show they can get out decent hitters, rather than simply striking out the same kid from a rival high school over and over.  And, if they get hit a little bit, they can show their makeup....among other things.  Their velo, command, etc. may or may not be noted.

The PG Showcase is where they demonstrate measurables like velocity. IMO, a PG Showcase is vital to a player's recruitment.  Look at it this way...YOU have seen him throw 88 but, most likely, no one that matters is the process have seen it.  If PG sees it, it is now a fact.  If only you see it, you are an overzealous dad who inflates the numbers.  So, the value in PG Showcases is the credibility and reliability in the numbers and I am convinced every college coach in the country has a PG subscription and searches it to ID kids.

Now...a big caveat is attached to velo.  If your pitcher sits 82-84 with a max velo of 88, he probably will not get much D-I attention.  However, if he sits 86-88, he will most likely attract a lot of attention. 

Sure, you can go to a showcase that provides evaluations (I provide evaluations at my showcases) but that will not help you get recruited.  And, if a college coach sees 86-88 velo at a local showcase, he surely isn't shouting that out to every other college coach that did not attend.

A big part of our recruiting strategy with the EvoShield Canes is to get our kids to a PG Showcase where their measurables can be recorded for everyone to see.  I think it works fairly well for us - we have 153 kids that signed a D-I scholarship in the 2016 grad class...and that is at all levels of D-I.

Thanks for the reply Redbird5. I totally appreciate the feedback. Definitely worth looking at the tourneys and showcases as separate, that both feed into an equation. Also, point well taken about the "dad with rose colored glasses - not Oakleys". He was at 88 max (sitting around 86) but at a camp that most coaches there saw, but no recording via a neutral entity like PG. So that is needed. Thank you.

Redbird,

Thanks for the explanation, good one BTW.  Often I want to say some of the same things, but am afraid it would come off the wrong way and people would think I am BSing.

Phanatic,

Sounds like your son could create some interest.  So much depends on the other things once the velocity is recognized.  Is that 86-88 look like the end or does it look like there is more to come in the near future?  Are the other pitches usable now and how much can they improve? Can he pitch?

I can tell you that in the past we have seen some mid 80 types that we like more than some 90+ guys.  I can guarantee you that we are not alone and many college recruiters see things the same way.  Unfortunately, it is a bit different when it comes to professional scouts.  But everyone, including the pro scouts,  have to deal with the same thing.  They have to predict how good someone will be in the future.  It's not easy, but there are many ways to be somewhat accurate.  Body type, arm action, arm speed, athleticism, makeup, mechanics, bloodlines, feel, poise, etc. It is a very long list of indicators as to what might happen in the future.  It's not always a what you see is what you will get thing.  Then again, there are times that what you see might be so good that it is enough without much projection.

I would do the PG Northeast Showcase in June and set his measurables heading into the summer season.  You'll have his velo numbers, PG rating, video and comparison with his class out there for anyone to see post-showcase plus you'll have whatever coaches are there watching him.  

Redbird has a lot more knowledge and experience than I do but my 2016 played with 2 RHPs with similar to your 2017 (one last year and one this year).  Both had max velos 1 MPH below yours and sat/sit around the same and both committed D1 over the summer before Sr. year.  My 2016 played the summer season 2 years ago with the 2015 player and he had lots of attention with those pitching numbers everywhere we went - including Lakepoint.  His current HS teammate had college coaches at his last few starts last HS season, then went to PG Northeast to start his summer showcase season and was committed by mid-summer.    Just my opinion but your 2017 is exactly the type of player that would do well at a PG showcase (as long as he also gets outs).   

Get him to a PG Showcase, etc. It helps. Just saying!

Thanks again for all the suggestions. I am convinced on the need for going to a PG showcase.

PGSTAFF: appreciate all the nuances to stocking up player projections that come into play. Although challenging, over the course of many years, these intangibles that we refer to (body type, arm action, command, secondary pitch readiness, poise, ability to get batters out, etc) have coalesced with metrics (pitch velocity, spin rate, etc). Together they are better aids to project what a 16 year old could be in 3-5 years, maybe beyond. I am convinced that PG has a lot to add to a players profile and showcases might be the most appropriate venue, at least one that the consumer and seller both can reach (in our case the player and the college scout). We will attend the National Academic Showcase as PG has told us that event attracts the most academic colleges and my 2017 fits there a bit better with his test scores, etc.

MKBASEBALLDAD: thanks for your personal experience with boys that share my son's data. It is encouraging. 

Phanatic,

I suggest you contact me regarding your son.  Don't worry I don't try to sell anything.  I just think certain kids get the most out of certain situations or events and I would like to know more about your son. He does sound interesting based on your initial post.

You can send me a private message as I doubt you want to discuss your son out here in the open.