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Service Academy Draftee

ClevelandDadClevelandDadHSBBWeb Administrator
quote:
Lets take a hypothetical situation. Lt Joe Blow graduates from the Academy. A plus personality, big time potential youth leader, and he is recruited to lead large city urban youth organization. Lt Smith sees this as his life long dream position where he can make a difference. What will the Service have to say about this opportunity and his commitment to the armed forces.

Ignorance on my part asks is if everyone has the opportunity to "buy out".


Not being a smart alek, but this theme has been worked over earlier in the thread with the singer analogy. I ask those coming in late to the topic to please go back and read the thread because there are many complex issues raised by it.

To answer your question, if hypothetical urban Joe were promised an alternate career path to join the Academy over all the other colleges out there who are competing with said Academy for the respective urban youth organization candidate, then shame on them if they don't live up to their end of things - regardless of how vague they are. If they are not telling urban Joe it is disallowed up front then it impliedly is allowed and we are stuck with the issues raised here in this thread. Apparently the Phillies thought it was allowed.

Interesting you were able to determine we were talking about Lt. Bolt. Some who are lecturing others to "turn down their sensitivity receptors" or to "refrain from swinging" seem obtuse to this fact. I hope their kids are not subjected someday to the indiginities they have bestowed on other's kids in this thread. Just so we are clear on what we are talking about, here is the offensive/insensitive remark imho:

quote:
My posts have been in support of those who have elected to serve in the military, both as commissioned officers out of the Academies and in the ranks. People who committed without the personal reserve clause of ‘as long as I don’t get the opportunity to play professional sports instead.”


Someone please explain how that does not reflect badly (impliedly albeit) on Lt. Bolt and then maybe we can turn down the sensitivity receptors.
shortstopmomshortstopmom1,000+ posts
I may just be a little ol' shortstawpmom from Kansas, but I for one am getting upset about a current posters son's name continuing to be brought up in this forum. Regardless if its never been the intention of others to put him in a negative light or not.

I have wondered as to why this thread has not been locked yet and then it dawned on me that alot of the conversation going on here is going on by many of the moderators themselves. Eek

I am going to be honest here and go out on a limb. Please know that I say this with a heavy heart.
This is starting to sound like a bunch of upset baseball parents complaining about the system. For many and for most, you are operating on very little true knowledge about how the Armed Services work.

There are chains of command. The chains of command are in charge of our nations armed services and they make the decisions. You can balk about the policies all you want, but you really have no say and are in no position to change things. You may not agree with the Armed Forces policies and because you live in a free country, please feel free to take your complaints up with our fellow politicians.
This is a basebal site.
If parents of future Academy athletes have questions,...I would tell them to ask the chain of command about the policies in place. I guarantee commanders have volumnes and volumnes of regulations and standards that will gladly recite to them. These policies are not made up as they go. There is a military judicial system in place and there are boards set aside to handle specific issues.

Its always very easy to assume, to complain, to be upset, and to doubt when one has not TRUELY been a part of a system.

I will probably be steam rolled over, but can we please leave politics off of this baseball site?

The soldiers are not complaining. Why is everyone else?
Please have confidence in our military leaders. I send my husband, my 19 year old son, and many friends out to war under these commanders. I trust them to make a solid decision in the best interest of America whether or not Academy students should or should not be allowed to persue a professional athletic career. Decisions are based on needs of the military, and who would know better about those needs, than the commanders & soldiers themselves?

Lets end this, and get back to baseball. Whatta ya say?
Last edited by shortstopmom
luvbbluvbb1,000+ posts
quote:
I should be spanked and sent to my room

Oh RZ...now you too can join the club of having been told off! Wink You can join me in the corner if you would like! Smile

Seriously PG...the first page of this thread did pertain to what you referred to as the original post was directed as his situation...but it QUICKLY veered off into bigger issues and I'll have to go back and check, but I don't even think his name has been mentioned much past the first page or two. Now, that doesn't mean that personal feelings of those directly involved in that situation haven't been hurt just because a particular name isn't mentioned. After going back and re-reading..I'm sure they have, and for that I apologize because that was not the intent. And I can also say that some words and ideas were being attributed to some posters that were not their intent either, and things quickly escalated when those assertions were made. But I think we quickly veered from the Air Force Academy to West Point and the issues involved at that Academy when it comes to athletes....which apparently do not happen at the Air Force Academy. But I admit, the overall ideas and policies probably overlap and I can understand the sensitivity. I do not think ANY of us underestimate the contribution of our armed forces personnel or question their dedication and commitment. The intent was to discuss and question bigger issues, but as we have all seen...and what SSMom has pointed out....that appears to be a futile attempt.

RZ...are you done crying yet?
Last edited by luvbb
TPMTPMHSBaseballweb Member since 2003
quote:
Originally posted by J.Weaver #5:
I'd say being drafted counts as a special circumstance. Smile


This was the second post in the topic. I did not agree with it, being drafted is not a special circumstance for anything.

It was this post that sparked the flame.

EH was the first to bring up the name of the player.

Luvbb responded to a statment by EH that playing baseball could do more for morale and honor than being an officer. I think that is where things began to unfold.

CD posted something about implied indignations, even after someone apologized about passing judgements.

Questions were asked about policy, with unclear explanation by an ex military dad that became frustrationg by many, we were told either to stand by these players or go to h*ll.

Bulldog probably answered any questions asked pretty easily for some to understand. Pretty sharp for a "kid" first week at school.

Now I read the thread and it is coming back full circle. Now people asking the same questions that were brought up pages back, that some were chastised for brining up.

PG makes a statment about some things being more important in life than baseball. For many of us, fighting, (I'll change that to serving), is one of those more important things.

This was the whole idea from the beginning.

I am now going to make a bold statement which most likely will be taken the wrong way, but in defense of those that do have some questions about this and have been chastised for posting, this bother me. And sometimes like many of us, I often speak without
thought, but I thought about this.

My son was drafted this year and so were a lot of our kids. I know how that players dad and folks must have felt, it was posted quite a while back regarding experiences (one of the reasons I started minor league reporting thread) and continued the discussion in General Items. Now there is nothing wrong with that, but IMO, if it were my son, considering the circumstances, I would not have posted links to any article regarding the situation because of the sensitve nature and the circumstances. I would have just told about the great experience he was having, that would be it, no one really needed to know what was happening behind the scenes. Those that inquired could have been repsonded to in a private pm. Once that was done, there were some people, who really didn't feel comfortable but stayed out of the discussion. I think that does, despite what some may think, show respect we give to our parents and their players. Some of you most likely say, why is she opening her mouth, but that is how I see it, and I do apologize for hurting anyone's feelings, this is not meant to be mean, but just an example of how things on a messageboard can get out of control. Even when teh original post was in another thread. We all, everyone, need to think twice when we post, post anything (as I most likely should now). I admit I really goof up on that often.

Orlando did offer an opportunity to let others know details were posted on another thread, but then the baseball being special circumstances came up and the rest is history. No one ever called the young man dishonorable. If that was implied, it was not done on purpose. And I think that implying that it was implied only got others a bit more upset.

I have heard from 3 people that when being recruited by the service academies, baseball after graduation was not much of an option. I think that this is a very good discussion for those that have encountered the situation. If pro baseball career is what you seek, then maybe this is not the right path.

No one stated anything about the player not fulfilling commitments, we all understand it was being postponed. That was also brought up in another topic.

CD has made a great point, if joining the thread, go back and read carefully from the beginning.

There is no reason this post should be locked up. This is about baseball. If someone feels uncomfortable, don't read it.

I do agree with ssm, we all know that the military is known for all teh red tape, but that was NOT what sparked teh discussion.

Baseball being more important than other things was.

JMO.
Last edited by TPM
TPMTPMHSBaseballweb Member since 2003
quote:
Originally posted by rz1:
quote:
tpm quote:
CD has made a great point, if joining the thread, go back and read carefully from the beginning.

Being chastised twice on the same page. TPM believe or not, I can read. Now I have to feel bad all over again. cry


I didn't mean to direct it at you, I know you already were sent to corner, it was for the next guy. Wink
B Bee>1,000+ posts
it's basic - - why not quit dancin' & cut the periphrial BS .. Frown

exactly how is that mysterious "proviso" worded?? ... IF IT IS "classified TOP SECRET" ..
PM it to Frank Martin, he can post it ...
then suffer the (dire) consequences ("if we tell ya we have to kill ya")
for the "greater good" of HSBBWEB

thanks
Last edited by Bee>
TPMTPMHSBaseballweb Member since 2003
SSm,
That was a great post.

I agree with you 100%. It's hard to judge when you are truely not a part of system.

My reason for stating that baseball should not be a special circumstance. Unless anyone has been in that system, they might not understnad.

Works both ways. I respect your opinion and what you have said.
Last edited by TPM
ClevelandDadClevelandDadHSBBWeb Administrator
quote:
Originally posted by rz1:
quote:
but this theme has been worked over earlier in the thread with the singer analogy. I ask those coming in late to the topic to please go back and read the thread because there are many complex issues raised by it.

I should be spanked cry and sent to my room Wink


Randy - sorry for making you feel like that - I did not mean to be rude. I apologize with the proviso that this thread although contentious at times has been one of the more interesting ones we have had here in quite some time.
Last edited by ClevelandDad
luvbbluvbb1,000+ posts
quote:
Randy - sorry for making you feel like that - I did not mean to be rude. I apologize with the proviso that this thread although contentious at times has been one of the more interesting ones we have had here in quite some time.

Oh CD..come on and admit it...you secretly WISH this thread were in the OH/KY/PA/WV forum so that our number of posts would close in on the Illinois Forum without help from American Idol chatter! Big Grin
Last edited by luvbb
ClevelandDadClevelandDadHSBBWeb Administrator
quote:
Originally posted by luvbb:
quote:
Randy - sorry for making you feel like that - I did not mean to be rude. I apologize with the proviso that this thread although contentious at times has been one of the more interesting ones we have had here in quite some time.

Oh CD..come on and admit it...you secretly WISH this thread were in the OH/KY/PA/WV forum so that our number of posts would close in on the Illinois Forum without help from American Idol chatter! Big Grin


You know me all too well luvbb Big Grin
rz1rz15,000+ posts
quote:
quote:
Randy - sorry for making you feel like that - I did not mean to be rude. I apologize with the proviso that this thread although contentious at times has been one of the more interesting ones we have had here in quite some time.

Not to worry Dan, I just wanted to go to the corner to visit, and bring food/drink to my friend luvbb who has been in/out of "time-outs" during this thread.
Last edited by rz1
CPLZCPLZ1,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by rz1:
What would this group have to say if the player was asked to play in an independent pro league. Would the services allow that? Or, does it have to have the MLB stamp of approval. The Indep Leeague also have "realizing a dream" potential. My only thought here is that any cadet coming out of 4 years of premium service education could find a place in the civilian world where he could play both roles.

I am not passing judgment on Lt Bolt, the Bolt family, or taking sides. I do understand the arguments, am torn if I was in the same shoes, and am only saying that baseball is not the only career in the civilian world where a graduating Service officer could where 2 hats, and be an asset to civilian society. But, for some reason professional athletics takes an upper hand when rules are made.

Lets take a hypothetical situation. Lt Joe Blow graduates from the Academy. A plus personality, big time potential youth leader, and he is recruited to lead large city urban youth organization. Lt Smith sees this as his life long dream position where he can make a difference. What will the Service have to say about this opportunity and his commitment to the armed forces.

Ignorance on my part asks is if everyone has the opportunity to "buy out".


RZ,
The answer is quite simple. Anyone can apply for a special circumstances leave or exit with a proviso...that it benefit the service branch. If such a person could show that his involvement in an endeavor would show the service branch in a positive light and gain notoriety for the branch, that request would be considered.

The "pro service option" that exists at West Point only, assumes this criteria and therefore does have a written policy regarding it. As to whether it would extend to an independant league, I plead ignorance.

The pro player is not on leave, but is active duty personnel and serves his first two off seasons on full time active duty. At any time during that period he may elect to leave baseball and rejoin traditional active duty for the remainder of his commitment.
CPLZCPLZ1,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by Bee>:
it's basic - - why not quit dancin' & cut the periphrial BS .. Frown

exactly how is that mysterious "proviso" worded?? ... IF IT IS "classified TOP SECRET" ..
PM it to Frank Martin, he can post it ...
then suffer the (dire) consequences ("if we tell ya we have to kill ya")
for the "greater good" of HSBBWEB



thanks



Bee,
Do you have a question about the "pro service option" at West Point? I don't know it all, but I am fairly well versed in it and would be happy to try and explain its provisions.
Last edited by CPLZ
TPMTPMHSBaseballweb Member since 2003
quote:
Originally posted by CPLZ:
quote:
Originally posted by rz1:
What would this group have to say if the player was asked to play in an independent pro league. Would the services allow that? Or, does it have to have the MLB stamp of approval. The Indep Leeague also have "realizing a dream" potential. My only thought here is that any cadet coming out of 4 years of premium service education could find a place in the civilian world where he could play both roles.

I am not passing judgment on Lt Bolt, the Bolt family, or taking sides. I do understand the arguments, am torn if I was in the same shoes, and am only saying that baseball is not the only career in the civilian world where a graduating Service officer could where 2 hats, and be an asset to civilian society. But, for some reason professional athletics takes an upper hand when rules are made.

Lets take a hypothetical situation. Lt Joe Blow graduates from the Academy. A plus personality, big time potential youth leader, and he is recruited to lead large city urban youth organization. Lt Smith sees this as his life long dream position where he can make a difference. What will the Service have to say about this opportunity and his commitment to the armed forces.

Ignorance on my part asks is if everyone has the opportunity to "buy out".


RZ,
The answer is quite simple. Anyone can apply for a special circumstances leave or exit with a proviso...that it benefit the service branch. If such a person could show that his involvement in an endeavor would show the service branch in a positive light and gain notoriety for the branch, that request would be considered.

The "pro service option" that exists at West Point only, assumes this criteria and therefore does have a written policy regarding it. As to whether it would extend to an independant league, I plead ignorance.

The pro player is not on leave, but is active duty personnel and serves his first two off seasons on full time active duty. At any time during that period he may elect to leave baseball and rejoin traditional active duty for the remainder of his commitment.


Is this new information you
learned today? I don't remember this earlier.
L lafmom5,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by luvbb:
quote:
Randy - sorry for making you feel like that - I did not mean to be rude. I apologize with the proviso that this thread although contentious at times has been one of the more interesting ones we have had here in quite some time.

Oh CD..come on and admit it...you secretly WISH this thread were in the OH/KY/PA/WV forum so that our number of posts would close in on the Illinois Forum without help from American Idol chatter! Big Grin

T theEH1,000+ posts
TPM,
Thanks for Throwing me under the bus.

TPM[quote].
It was EH who brought up
Lt Bolt first in his post.

Only kidding, hehe

You have to go back to the start of the thread
To understand what was written, and how it was interpreted,
And I might add manipulated and sentences taken out of context.
All for the sake of an arguement?
And yes it was a sensitive subject,
Maybe I'm to close to the matter.
To Me,
To question ones commitment.
Is to question ones Honor, Ones Character,
Ones Ethics, Ones Duty.
And you have know idea about whom you post about.
I might add KB is only the second player drafted in school history, since 1957.
EH
CPLZCPLZ1,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by Tiger Paw Mom:
quote:
Originally posted by CPLZ:
quote:
Originally posted by rz1:
What would this group have to say if the player was asked to play in an independent pro league. Would the services allow that? Or, does it have to have the MLB stamp of approval. The Indep Leeague also have "realizing a dream" potential. My only thought here is that any cadet coming out of 4 years of premium service education could find a place in the civilian world where he could play both roles.

I am not passing judgment on Lt Bolt, the Bolt family, or taking sides. I do understand the arguments, am torn if I was in the same shoes, and am only saying that baseball is not the only career in the civilian world where a graduating Service officer could where 2 hats, and be an asset to civilian society. But, for some reason professional athletics takes an upper hand when rules are made.

Lets take a hypothetical situation. Lt Joe Blow graduates from the Academy. A plus personality, big time potential youth leader, and he is recruited to lead large city urban youth organization. Lt Smith sees this as his life long dream position where he can make a difference. What will the Service have to say about this opportunity and his commitment to the armed forces.

Ignorance on my part asks is if everyone has the opportunity to "buy out".


RZ,
The answer is quite simple. Anyone can apply for a special circumstances leave or exit with a proviso...that it benefit the service branch. If such a person could show that his involvement in an endeavor would show the service branch in a positive light and gain notoriety for the branch, that request would be considered.

The "pro service option" that exists at West Point only, assumes this criteria and therefore does have a written policy regarding it. As to whether it would extend to an independant league, I plead ignorance.

The pro player is not on leave, but is active duty personnel and serves his first two off seasons on full time active duty. At any time during that period he may elect to leave baseball and rejoin traditional active duty for the remainder of his commitment.


Is this new information you
learned today? I don't remember this earlier.


Some I have posted earlier, some I haven't. Is there something specific you'd like to know?

And an FYI that I didn't address earlier, the "buy out" only occurs after serving two years of active duty in the off seasons, AND still a rostered player on a professional team. It's not truly a "buy out" though, because the player is not released from service, just altered the commitment.

The three remaining years of commitment (grads owe 5 years active duty and 3 years reserves), are doubled to 6 years and placed in the reserves. So during the 8 year span, the player will still be a commisioned officer in the Army. At any time during those reserve years, the player can be called back to active duty at the Army's discretion.
Last edited by CPLZ
shortstopmomshortstopmom1,000+ posts
quote:
any time during those reserve years, the player can be called back to active duty at the Army's discretion.


This goes for regular academy commissioned officers as well. Not just the athletes.

I will add that a MAJORITY are called back and MANY serve back-to-back 12-18 month deployments.
( and I dont mean to beautiful beaches of Tahiti, if you get my drift )
Last edited by shortstopmom
luvbbluvbb1,000+ posts
quote:
I will add that a MAJORITY are called back and MANY serve back-to-back 12-18 month deployments.
( and I dont mean to beaches of Tahiti, if you get my drift )

Completely understood SSM...it is nice to see some helpful info posted and questions answered. It helps to give a more well-rounded picture of the situation. Thanks! Smile
Last edited by luvbb
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