18 seems to be perfect. Our school rosters from 7th grade on has been in the high 20's. Hard to find any "real" game time for the last 10 guys.
We played our 1st scrimmage games of the spring in a 3 team round robin on Sat. The 1st team we played had 27 and the 2nd 23. To me there is no right or wrong number, and it's on the HC to make the call since he's the one dealing with it.
Stats4Gnats posted:We played our 1st scrimmage games of the spring in a 3 team round robin on Sat. The 1st team we played had 27 and the 2nd 23. To me there is no right or wrong number, and it's on the HC to make the call since he's the one dealing with it.
Agreed!
A school in our area took 22, yes 22, kids on the varsity team. I think they have 60 across Freshman, JV and Varsity. Has anyone ever seen anything like this before? Going to be a lot of angry parents I think. .............. Back in the day (of course saying that might automatically label me as old fashioned or old school?) Back then I could care less about angry parents. I worried about my players and what they did on the field. Of course this was back when the kids played the game the coaches coached and the parents were parents and not agents for their kids. Imagine how angry they would be if their kid got cut?........ With the thing with the parents that goes on today keeping too many players will only be a problem. If the kid can play keep him if he can not and others are better cut him. ( I guess that sounds cruel but this is high school) .. As a coach if you want to please the parents then when you are say 4 and 18 or something do not complain.
Will posted:A school in our area took 22, yes 22, kids on the varsity team. I think they have 60 across Freshman, JV and Varsity. Has anyone ever seen anything like this before? Going to be a lot of angry parents I think. .............. Back in the day (of course saying that might automatically label me as old fashioned or old school?) Back then I could care less about angry parents. I worried about my players and what they did on the field. Of course this was back when the kids played the game the coaches coached and the parents were parents and not agents for their kids. Imagine how angry they would be if their kid got cut?........ With the thing with the parents that goes on today keeping too many players will only be a problem. If the kid can play keep him if he can not and others are better cut him. ( I guess that sounds cruel but this is high school) .. As a coach if you want to please the parents then when you are say 4 and 18 or something do not complain.
Yes. Our HS Varsity routinely has 26-30 players trying out and the HC will keep 20-23. HC tries to have JV games to accomodate the 2nd stringers and develop pitching. The out of conference Saturday games are double headers where the second game is a JV game. Sounds ok, but truthfully there ends up only being 3-4 JV games because of make up games. Spring weather in the Midwest wreaks havoc on baseball.
There are a lot of kids standing around and parents don't even bother to come to games. Kind of brutal for them.
Will wrote "As a coach if you want to please the parents and your team goes 4 and 18 then don't complain"
And that is the problem. Too many parents would rather see their son on the field during his senior year and have the team lose every game.....as opposed to the best player being on the field (and their son on the bench - or not on the team at all) and the team winning. It is an issue of entitlement that parents are promoting and kids are adopting. It is wrong and it sets a kid up for failure later on.
Here is a novel idea. You play the best kids. And why would a coach not do this? It defies any type of logic.
Will posted:Here is a novel idea. You play the best kids. And why would a coach not do this? It defies any type of logic.
Because it's not Travel Ball and it's not College Ball. For many of these kids high school is it for baseball. They have no plans to take it further and they are there to have a brotherhood in high school and their picture in the yearbook. It's not always "the best kids play" in high school, often it's the seniors for their last hoorah. It's still a game at that point, not a career.
It's not always "the best kids play" in high school, often it's the seniors for their last hoorah...........so if you are a senior you play because you are a senior even though the junior is better than the senior? So I guess making out the lineup card is fairly easy for the coach?
Will posted:It's not always "the best kids play" in high school, often it's the seniors for their last hoorah...........so if you are a senior you play because you are a senior even though the junior is better than the senior? So I guess making out the lineup card is fairly easy for the coach?
There will be other grades sprinkled in but it won't always be the best 9. You may save your mid 70's pitcher for a blow out closing role, you may keep varsity reserved for 11th and 12th only. There are many things a HS coach can do to give the seniors their last hoorah. Hopefully your seniors are your best players, if not you make a conscious effort to get them in when you can.
CaCO3Girl posted:Will posted:Here is a novel idea. You play the best kids. And why would a coach not do this? It defies any type of logic.
Because it's not Travel Ball and it's not College Ball. For many of these kids high school is it for baseball. They have no plans to take it further and they are there to have a brotherhood in high school and their picture in the yearbook. It's not always "the best kids play" in high school, often it's the seniors for their last hoorah. It's still a game at that point, not a career.
That is juice box and participation trophy mentality- and it has permeated an entire generation of kids. As a result way too many don’t know how to compete. Later in life, when they have to compete, they fall flat on their face. Give a millennial his first job and see what happens.
CaCO3Girl posted:Will posted:Here is a novel idea. You play the best kids. And why would a coach not do this? It defies any type of logic.
Because it's not Travel Ball and it's not College Ball. For many of these kids high school is it for baseball. They have no plans to take it further and they are there to have a brotherhood in high school and their picture in the yearbook. It's not always "the best kids play" in high school, often it's the seniors for their last hoorah. It's still a game at that point, not a career.
I guess often for some is seldom or never for others.
Obviously it's just anecdotal experience, but in my years of observing 2 kids play multiple HS sports, the only time I felt I saw any coach play favorites in the lineup was when a coach had a son on the team. Even then I think coaches always played who THEY THOUGHT were the best players available, regardless of class. Were they wrong sometimes? Sure, at least once or twice, in the case of the aforementioned sons. Maybe other times as well. Coaches are human. Okay and once or twice I saw borderline seniors get a start on Senior Day if the game wasn't crucial, or in basketball start and get subbed out quickly.
Yes, I saw seniors sit. I also saw seniors get cut and seniors quit. Yes, I also saw bitter parents. Watching your kid not play can be painful, and not everyone handles it well. I also saw parents who understood that their kids were not the best players available and/or understood that lineup decisions are up to the head coach.
We were fortunate enough to be involved mostly with winning teams. In my experience, parents with kids on winning teams don't grumble very much about playing time. I never, ever heard anyone say anything like, "put Johnny in so we can lose". Losing teams are a different matter. We did have a mom on a losing basketball team who would yell from the stands "Put Kevin in!" over and over. When a team is losing and Billy misses 5 shots in a row and gets scored on constantly, Kevin's parents are thinking, hey, our kid can do better than that.
adbono posted:CaCO3Girl posted:Will posted:Here is a novel idea. You play the best kids. And why would a coach not do this? It defies any type of logic.
Because it's not Travel Ball and it's not College Ball. For many of these kids high school is it for baseball. They have no plans to take it further and they are there to have a brotherhood in high school and their picture in the yearbook. It's not always "the best kids play" in high school, often it's the seniors for their last hoorah. It's still a game at that point, not a career.
That is juice box and participation trophy mentality- and it has permeated an entire generation of kids. As a result way too many don’t know how to compete. Later in life, when they have to compete, they fall flat on their face. Give a millennial his first job and see what happens.
11 seniors and 9 went on to play a sport in college. I think they are doing just fine. There is nothing wrong with enjoying the game, giving the seniors their shot when you can, and giving these teenagers lasting memories.
High School coaching is first and foremost about being a mentor. There is nothing mentor like in playing your best 9 always while the senior sits on the bench watching. You give them their shot when you can, you show them that good attitudes and hard work will be rewarded. THAT'S being a mentor.
What I have seen firsthand, in 2 different programs, is coaches cave in to political pressure from parents, booster club, and administrators to defer to seniors when they weren’t the best player. I think it is a big mistake and in the long run doesn’t do the kids any favors.
adbono posted:CaCO3Girl posted:Will posted:Here is a novel idea. You play the best kids. And why would a coach not do this? It defies any type of logic.
Because it's not Travel Ball and it's not College Ball. For many of these kids high school is it for baseball. They have no plans to take it further and they are there to have a brotherhood in high school and their picture in the yearbook. It's not always "the best kids play" in high school, often it's the seniors for their last hoorah. It's still a game at that point, not a career.
That is juice box and participation trophy mentality- and it has permeated an entire generation of kids. As a result way too many don’t know how to compete. Later in life, when they have to compete, they fall flat on their face. Give a millennial his first job and see what happens.
I deal with millennials every day. Most are good people. Not one of them has asked me for a juice box or a participation trophy.
I think you make sure Senior night is against a weak opponent and make sure they all play. Beyond that if they are equal...the senior. Otherwise, the best kids.
adbono posted:What I have seen firsthand, in 2 different programs, is coaches cave in to political pressure from parents, booster club, and administrators to defer to seniors when they weren’t the best player. I think it is a big mistake and in the long run doesn’t do the kids any favors.
As far as I have seen there is no political pressure from anyone, if there is the coach doesn't seem to care.
RF might be played by 3 seniors one night. Is that really so bad? You still have the two D1 11th grader commits in at MIF. No one makes the team that can't perform, is the senior the best RF, maybe not, but he can track and catch and get the ball in, so why not play him? There are preseason games that don't count, there is a senior night, there are good blow outs and bad blow outs, there are chances to play the seniors. If and when you get to the state championships you can be more discerning, until then why not play the seniors?
CaCO3Girl posted:Will posted:Here is a novel idea. You play the best kids. And why would a coach not do this? It defies any type of logic.
Because it's not Travel Ball and it's not College Ball. For many of these kids high school is it for baseball. They have no plans to take it further and they are there to have a brotherhood in high school and their picture in the yearbook. It's not always "the best kids play" in high school, often it's the seniors for their last hoorah. It's still a game at that point, not a career.
Ah, so in your view high school baseball is a participation sport for all who want to play, not a competitive environment? Do you bring snacks and juice boxes to hand out?
adbono posted:CaCO3Girl posted:Will posted:Here is a novel idea. You play the best kids. And why would a coach not do this? It defies any type of logic.
Because it's not Travel Ball and it's not College Ball. For many of these kids high school is it for baseball. They have no plans to take it further and they are there to have a brotherhood in high school and their picture in the yearbook. It's not always "the best kids play" in high school, often it's the seniors for their last hoorah. It's still a game at that point, not a career.
That is juice box and participation trophy mentality- and it has permeated an entire generation of kids. As a result way too many don’t know how to compete. Later in life, when they have to compete, they fall flat on their face. Give a millennial his first job and see what happens.
It’s the parents more so than the kids. The kids are still malleable...it’s the parents that perpetuate the entitlement.
CaCO3Girl posted:adbono posted:What I have seen firsthand, in 2 different programs, is coaches cave in to political pressure from parents, booster club, and administrators to defer to seniors when they weren’t the best player. I think it is a big mistake and in the long run doesn’t do the kids any favors.
As far as I have seen there is no political pressure from anyone, if there is the coach doesn't seem to care.
RF might be played by 3 seniors one night. Is that really so bad? You still have the two D1 11th grader commits in at MIF. No one makes the team that can't perform, is the senior the best RF, maybe not, but he can track and catch and get the ball in, so why not play him? There are preseason games that don't count, there is a senior night, there are good blow outs and bad blow outs, there are chances to play the seniors. If and when you get to the state championships you can be more discerning, until then why not play the seniors?
You are completely missing the point. I’m not talking about playing seniors in meaningless situations or looking for an opportunity to get them a small role one way or another. Nobody has a problem with that. I’m talking about playing seniors (instead of more talented upperclassmen) the majority of the time ONLY because they are seniors. I’m talking about parents that are in favor of that. I’m talking about players that think they are entitled to to that. I’m talking about coaches that cave in to that. And I’m talking about how all of that is not in the best interest of the kid in the long run.
CaCO3Girl posted:adbono posted:CaCO3Girl posted:Will posted:Here is a novel idea. You play the best kids. And why would a coach not do this? It defies any type of logic.
Because it's not Travel Ball and it's not College Ball. For many of these kids high school is it for baseball. They have no plans to take it further and they are there to have a brotherhood in high school and their picture in the yearbook. It's not always "the best kids play" in high school, often it's the seniors for their last hoorah. It's still a game at that point, not a career.
That is juice box and participation trophy mentality- and it has permeated an entire generation of kids. As a result way too many don’t know how to compete. Later in life, when they have to compete, they fall flat on their face. Give a millennial his first job and see what happens.
11 seniors and 9 went on to play a sport in college. I think they are doing just fine. There is nothing wrong with enjoying the game, giving the seniors their shot when you can, and giving these teenagers lasting memories.
High School coaching is first and foremost about being a mentor. There is nothing mentor like in playing your best 9 always while the senior sits on the bench watching. You give them their shot when you can, you show them that good attitudes and hard work will be rewarded. THAT'S being a mentor.
You don’t think the non-seniors who are seeing playing time aren’t getting mentored. If your kid was a superior player on the roster and sitting behind an inferior senior, you would certainly feel otherwise. I think you are being disingenuous.
baseballhs posted:I think you make sure Senior night is against a weak opponent and make sure they all play. Beyond that if they are equal...the senior. Otherwise, the best kids.
If I have a senior and a kid younger who are of equal talent, that senior isn’t going to be playing over the others. I am playing the younger guy and developing him.
CaCO3Girl posted:adbono posted:What I have seen firsthand, in 2 different programs, is coaches cave in to political pressure from parents, booster club, and administrators to defer to seniors when they weren’t the best player. I think it is a big mistake and in the long run doesn’t do the kids any favors.
As far as I have seen there is no political pressure from anyone, if there is the coach doesn't seem to care.
RF might be played by 3 seniors one night. Is that really so bad? You still have the two D1 11th grader commits in at MIF. No one makes the team that can't perform, is the senior the best RF, maybe not, but he can track and catch and get the ball in, so why not play him? There are preseason games that don't count, there is a senior night, there are good blow outs and bad blow outs, there are chances to play the seniors. If and when you get to the state championships you can be more discerning, until then why not play the seniors?
Because You don’t won’t get to the state championships by playing inferior players all season long, then bring on the studs. I pray that you don’t coach a sports team beyond little league.
CaCO3Girl posted:adbono posted:What I have seen firsthand, in 2 different programs, is coaches cave in to political pressure from parents, booster club, and administrators to defer to seniors when they weren’t the best player. I think it is a big mistake and in the long run doesn’t do the kids any favors.
As far as I have seen there is no political pressure from anyone, if there is the coach doesn't seem to care.
RF might be played by 3 seniors one night. Is that really so bad? You still have the two D1 11th grader commits in at MIF. No one makes the team that can't perform, is the senior the best RF, maybe not, but he can track and catch and get the ball in, so why not play him? There are preseason games that don't count, there is a senior night, there are good blow outs and bad blow outs, there are chances to play the seniors. If and when you get to the state championships you can be more discerning, until then why not play the seniors?
In a perfect world, yes no one gets hurt. That said, what if you have a sophomore D1 caliber right fielder. He has schools that want to come watch him play but he is sitting on the bench. It is hard to explain to a college coach why you aren’t getting play time
adbono posted:CaCO3Girl posted:adbono posted:What I have seen firsthand, in 2 different programs, is coaches cave in to political pressure from parents, booster club, and administrators to defer to seniors when they weren’t the best player. I think it is a big mistake and in the long run doesn’t do the kids any favors.
As far as I have seen there is no political pressure from anyone, if there is the coach doesn't seem to care.
RF might be played by 3 seniors one night. Is that really so bad? You still have the two D1 11th grader commits in at MIF. No one makes the team that can't perform, is the senior the best RF, maybe not, but he can track and catch and get the ball in, so why not play him? There are preseason games that don't count, there is a senior night, there are good blow outs and bad blow outs, there are chances to play the seniors. If and when you get to the state championships you can be more discerning, until then why not play the seniors?
You are completely missing the point. I’m not talking about playing seniors in meaningless situations or looking for an opportunity to get them a small role one way or another. Nobody has a problem with that. I’m talking about playing seniors (instead of more talented upperclassmen) the majority of the time ONLY because they are seniors. I’m talking about parents that are in favor of that. I’m talking about players that think they are entitled to to that. I’m talking about coaches that cave in to that. And I’m talking about how all of that is not in the best interest of the kid in the long run.
Or is it in the interest of a hs baseball program. A coach should have the outlook of program first, then team, then player. I have seen so many posts here lately about how selfless Johnny the Senior is when they graciously take a roster spot with knowledge they won’t play much...see how long that lasted? Now everyone is saying “but he’s a senior!”....get real, you either want to compete or not. If you have a truly competitive environment your program will improve, constantly.
CaCO3Girl posted:adbono posted:CaCO3Girl posted:Will posted:Here is a novel idea. You play the best kids. And why would a coach not do this? It defies any type of logic.
Because it's not Travel Ball and it's not College Ball. For many of these kids high school is it for baseball. They have no plans to take it further and they are there to have a brotherhood in high school and their picture in the yearbook. It's not always "the best kids play" in high school, often it's the seniors for their last hoorah. It's still a game at that point, not a career.
That is juice box and participation trophy mentality- and it has permeated an entire generation of kids. As a result way too many don’t know how to compete. Later in life, when they have to compete, they fall flat on their face. Give a millennial his first job and see what happens.
11 seniors and 9 went on to play a sport in college. I think they are doing just fine. There is nothing wrong with enjoying the game, giving the seniors their shot when you can, and giving these teenagers lasting memories.
High School coaching is first and foremost about being a mentor. There is nothing mentor like in playing your best 9 always while the senior sits on the bench watching. You give them their shot when you can, you show them that good attitudes and hard work will be rewarded. THAT'S being a mentor.
I think this is right. In competitive games/situations your best 9 are out there, otherwise you work kids in when you can.
As others have said, there is a lot of value in kids being on a team, whether they play a lot or not. Sports are a lot like life -facing adversity, forming and striving toward individual and team goals, etc. You do not need to be a star or even a starter to benefit greatly.
I would never advocate for inferior players playing over better players, but what is the harm in a kid being on the team if he is a good kid and readily accepts his role?
baseballhs posted:CaCO3Girl posted:adbono posted:What I have seen firsthand, in 2 different programs, is coaches cave in to political pressure from parents, booster club, and administrators to defer to seniors when they weren’t the best player. I think it is a big mistake and in the long run doesn’t do the kids any favors.
As far as I have seen there is no political pressure from anyone, if there is the coach doesn't seem to care.
RF might be played by 3 seniors one night. Is that really so bad? You still have the two D1 11th grader commits in at MIF. No one makes the team that can't perform, is the senior the best RF, maybe not, but he can track and catch and get the ball in, so why not play him? There are preseason games that don't count, there is a senior night, there are good blow outs and bad blow outs, there are chances to play the seniors. If and when you get to the state championships you can be more discerning, until then why not play the seniors?
In a perfect world, yes no one gets hurt. That said, what if you have a sophomore D1 caliber right fielder. He has schools that want to come watch him play but he is sitting on the bench. It is hard to explain to a college coach why you aren’t getting play time
A lot of college coaches don’t hold the fact that a kid is sitting behind a senior against them. We’re not dumb, we know there are politics involved often. When you know a school is coming to see you, communicate that with your coach, he should make a point of getting you significant playing time to make the visit worthwhile.
LU 57 posted:CaCO3Girl posted:adbono posted:CaCO3Girl posted:Will posted:Here is a novel idea. You play the best kids. And why would a coach not do this? It defies any type of logic.
Because it's not Travel Ball and it's not College Ball. For many of these kids high school is it for baseball. They have no plans to take it further and they are there to have a brotherhood in high school and their picture in the yearbook. It's not always "the best kids play" in high school, often it's the seniors for their last hoorah. It's still a game at that point, not a career.
That is juice box and participation trophy mentality- and it has permeated an entire generation of kids. As a result way too many don’t know how to compete. Later in life, when they have to compete, they fall flat on their face. Give a millennial his first job and see what happens.
11 seniors and 9 went on to play a sport in college. I think they are doing just fine. There is nothing wrong with enjoying the game, giving the seniors their shot when you can, and giving these teenagers lasting memories.
High School coaching is first and foremost about being a mentor. There is nothing mentor like in playing your best 9 always while the senior sits on the bench watching. You give them their shot when you can, you show them that good attitudes and hard work will be rewarded. THAT'S being a mentor.
I think this is right. In competitive games/situations your best 9 are out there, otherwise you work kids in when you can.
As others have said, there is a lot of value in kids being on a team, whether they play a lot or not. Sports are a lot like life -facing adversity, forming and striving toward individual and team goals, etc. You do not need to be a star or even a starter to benefit greatly.
I would never advocate for inferior players playing over better players, but what is the harm in a kid being on the team if he is a good kid and readily accepts his role?
The problem is that the majority of kids (and their parents) can’t really embrace that role, IMO. At least not from what I have witnessed.
I think it is you guys that are missing the point of high school baseball.
You have to be qualified to make the team. Sophomores on varsity are rare. At my kids school if you are a 10th grader throwing 80 you don't even get a sniff at varsity. It's competitive and it's high school appropriate.
You people complain about the parents and yet you are trying to turn every high school player into a college stud. It's a GAME! What's the percentage of kids moving on and playing past high school, oh yeah, slim and none and you would rob a senior of some innings here and there in favor of the best 9? It's you guys that have a twisted view of what high school baseball should be.
adbono posted:LU 57 posted:CaCO3Girl posted:adbono posted:CaCO3Girl posted:Will posted:Here is a novel idea. You play the best kids. And why would a coach not do this? It defies any type of logic.
Because it's not Travel Ball and it's not College Ball. For many of these kids high school is it for baseball. They have no plans to take it further and they are there to have a brotherhood in high school and their picture in the yearbook. It's not always "the best kids play" in high school, often it's the seniors for their last hoorah. It's still a game at that point, not a career.
That is juice box and participation trophy mentality- and it has permeated an entire generation of kids. As a result way too many don’t know how to compete. Later in life, when they have to compete, they fall flat on their face. Give a millennial his first job and see what happens.
11 seniors and 9 went on to play a sport in college. I think they are doing just fine. There is nothing wrong with enjoying the game, giving the seniors their shot when you can, and giving these teenagers lasting memories.
High School coaching is first and foremost about being a mentor. There is nothing mentor like in playing your best 9 always while the senior sits on the bench watching. You give them their shot when you can, you show them that good attitudes and hard work will be rewarded. THAT'S being a mentor.
I think this is right. In competitive games/situations your best 9 are out there, otherwise you work kids in when you can.
As others have said, there is a lot of value in kids being on a team, whether they play a lot or not. Sports are a lot like life -facing adversity, forming and striving toward individual and team goals, etc. You do not need to be a star or even a starter to benefit greatly.
I would never advocate for inferior players playing over better players, but what is the harm in a kid being on the team if he is a good kid and readily accepts his role?
The problem is that the majority of kids (and their parents) can’t really embrace that role, IMO. At least not from what I have witnessed.
Hard for me to argue. I have seen it go both ways. We have been pretty fortunate I suppose since our son's coach does a really good job of spelling out kids' roles ahead of time.
As for knowing and accepting roles, I tell my boys there is a difference between knowing your role and accepting that role as permanent. In other words, you should not necessarily accept a backup role. You should continue to bust your butt in practice to beat out the guy(s) in front of you. You need to prepare yourself like a starter because, as one of my former coaches used to say, "you (backups) are only one play away" from being a starter.
The key though is attitude. Keep competing to win that job, at the same time be a team player and do what is asked within your stated role.
It takes a ton of maturity, and frankly I was not great with it even through college (different sport), but it is what I try to encourage in my kids.
CaCO3Girl posted:I think it is you guys that are missing the point of high school baseball.
You have to be qualified to make the team. Sophomores on varsity are rare. At my kids school if you are a 10th grader throwing 80 you don't even get a sniff at varsity. It's competitive and it's high school appropriate.
You people complain about the parents and yet you are trying to turn every high school player into a college stud. It's a GAME! What's the percentage of kids moving on and playing past high school, oh yeah, slim and none and you would rob a senior of some innings here and there in favor of the best 9? It's you guys that have a twisted view of what high school baseball should be.
Wait...I thought I pretty much agreed with you
CaCO3Girl posted:I think it is you guys that are missing the point of high school baseball.
You have to be qualified to make the team. Sophomores on varsity are rare. At my kids school if you are a 10th grader throwing 80 you don't even get a sniff at varsity. It's competitive and it's high school appropriate.
You people complain about the parents and yet you are trying to turn every high school player into a college stud. It's a GAME! What's the percentage of kids moving on and playing past high school, oh yeah, slim and none and you would rob a senior of some innings here and there in favor of the best 9? It's you guys that have a twisted view of what high school baseball should be.
Yeah, I'm well aware that there are other people besides you that view HS baseball (and other HS sports) as activities - just like going bowling or going to the movies. And to some extent that's fine. But you (and like-minded people) should not get the "HS baseball experience" you want at the expense of a more talented younger player that has aspirations beyond HS. Above all, what HS baseball players should be learning is how to compete. This is true regardless of level of ability. When the element of competition is removed from HS sports it diminishes the ability of the participants to learn life lessons as a result of the experience. There is nothing twisted about any of that.
adbono posted:CaCO3Girl posted:I think it is you guys that are missing the point of high school baseball.
You have to be qualified to make the team. Sophomores on varsity are rare. At my kids school if you are a 10th grader throwing 80 you don't even get a sniff at varsity. It's competitive and it's high school appropriate.
You people complain about the parents and yet you are trying to turn every high school player into a college stud. It's a GAME! What's the percentage of kids moving on and playing past high school, oh yeah, slim and none and you would rob a senior of some innings here and there in favor of the best 9? It's you guys that have a twisted view of what high school baseball should be.
Yeah, I'm well aware that there are other people besides you that view HS baseball (and other HS sports) as activities - just like going bowling or going to the movies. And to some extent that's fine. But you (and like-minded people) should not get the "HS baseball experience" you want at the expense of a more talented younger player that has aspirations beyond HS. Above all, what HS baseball players should be learning is how to compete. This is true regardless of level of ability. When the element of competition is removed from HS sports it diminishes the ability of the participants to learn life lessons as a result of the experience. There is nothing twisted about any of that.
That is what Travel Ball is for. You aren't removing competition either by playing seniors. Whether they get 1 inning or 30 depends on their work ethic and attitude.
My son, who is going to play baseball in college providing he stays healthy, is learning to wait his turn. JV season 9th grade he got 19 innings on the mound and 8 at bats....ALL season. Why? Because the varsity kids playing down and the sophomores had seniority. I personally liked that life lesson. There is a pecking order and you haven't made it yet kid.
Several kids and parents didn't handle that well. One quit mid season, a couple didn't come back this year. I see a whole new 9th grade class now mumbling while the sophomores are playing. The travel kids who play high level baseball are in shock that they aren't playing every inning...parents are grumbling about playing the best 9....I think this is a pretty big life lesson too. They can choose to have the chip on their shoulders that they are the best that ever played or they can work harder. I live less than 5 miles from East Cobb baseball, no shortage of talent in this area, lots of chips on their shoulders though.
CaCO3Girl posted:adbono posted:CaCO3Girl posted:I think it is you guys that are missing the point of high school baseball.
You have to be qualified to make the team. Sophomores on varsity are rare. At my kids school if you are a 10th grader throwing 80 you don't even get a sniff at varsity. It's competitive and it's high school appropriate.
You people complain about the parents and yet you are trying to turn every high school player into a college stud. It's a GAME! What's the percentage of kids moving on and playing past high school, oh yeah, slim and none and you would rob a senior of some innings here and there in favor of the best 9? It's you guys that have a twisted view of what high school baseball should be.
Yeah, I'm well aware that there are other people besides you that view HS baseball (and other HS sports) as activities - just like going bowling or going to the movies. And to some extent that's fine. But you (and like-minded people) should not get the "HS baseball experience" you want at the expense of a more talented younger player that has aspirations beyond HS. Above all, what HS baseball players should be learning is how to compete. This is true regardless of level of ability. When the element of competition is removed from HS sports it diminishes the ability of the participants to learn life lessons as a result of the experience. There is nothing twisted about any of that.
That is what Travel Ball is for. You aren't removing competition either by playing seniors. Whether they get 1 inning or 30 depends on their work ethic and attitude.
My son, who is going to play baseball in college providing he stays healthy, is learning to wait his turn. JV season 9th grade he got 19 innings on the mound and 8 at bats....ALL season. Why? Because the varsity kids playing down and the sophomores had seniority. I personally liked that life lesson. There is a pecking order and you haven't made it yet kid.
Several kids and parents didn't handle that well. One quit mid season, a couple didn't come back this year. I see a whole new 9th grade class now mumbling while the sophomores are playing. The travel kids who play high level baseball are in shock that they aren't playing every inning...parents are grumbling about playing the best 9....I think this is a pretty big life lesson too. They can choose to have the chip on their shoulders that they are the best that ever played or they can work harder. I live less than 5 miles from East Cobb baseball, no shortage of talent in this area, lots of chips on their shoulders though.
My son is a junior at a 6A school with several D1 commits. He made the varsity team and was told that he had the best tryout out of all the kids but that he will have to play behind the seniors. He accepted this role and hasn't complained about it. He's just happy to be on the team. I will go to the games, route for the team and wait for my son to play. Knowing him, he is going to work harder than anyone else and try to get more time on the field. If he's happy with this arrangement, who am I to complain? I'm glad he's a part of the organization and will get more reps at practice to make him a better player on his travel team. The last thing he needs is for me to complain.
There are valid points on all sides of this. The fact of the matter is that you are really at the mercy of how your school / coach sees the world. Do they weigh class heavily in determining innings? Is it more ability & talent? Is it a blend? Is it seniority first & then a younger kid can earn a spot ?
It's hard to say that any of these philosophies are incorrect. It is more a matter of coaching philosophy.
CaCO3Girl posted:adbono posted:CaCO3Girl posted:I think it is you guys that are missing the point of high school baseball.
You have to be qualified to make the team. Sophomores on varsity are rare. At my kids school if you are a 10th grader throwing 80 you don't even get a sniff at varsity. It's competitive and it's high school appropriate.
You people complain about the parents and yet you are trying to turn every high school player into a college stud. It's a GAME! What's the percentage of kids moving on and playing past high school, oh yeah, slim and none and you would rob a senior of some innings here and there in favor of the best 9? It's you guys that have a twisted view of what high school baseball should be.
Yeah, I'm well aware that there are other people besides you that view HS baseball (and other HS sports) as activities - just like going bowling or going to the movies. And to some extent that's fine. But you (and like-minded people) should not get the "HS baseball experience" you want at the expense of a more talented younger player that has aspirations beyond HS. Above all, what HS baseball players should be learning is how to compete. This is true regardless of level of ability. When the element of competition is removed from HS sports it diminishes the ability of the participants to learn life lessons as a result of the experience. There is nothing twisted about any of that.
That is what Travel Ball is for. You aren't removing competition either by playing seniors. Whether they get 1 inning or 30 depends on their work ethic and attitude.
My son, who is going to play baseball in college providing he stays healthy, is learning to wait his turn. JV season 9th grade he got 19 innings on the mound and 8 at bats....ALL season. Why? Because the varsity kids playing down and the sophomores had seniority. I personally liked that life lesson. There is a pecking order and you haven't made it yet kid.
Several kids and parents didn't handle that well. One quit mid season, a couple didn't come back this year. I see a whole new 9th grade class now mumbling while the sophomores are playing. The travel kids who play high level baseball are in shock that they aren't playing every inning...parents are grumbling about playing the best 9....I think this is a pretty big life lesson too. They can choose to have the chip on their shoulders that they are the best that ever played or they can work harder. I live less than 5 miles from East Cobb baseball, no shortage of talent in this area, lots of chips on their shoulders though.
Caco, the bolded is one aspect of your perspective that illustrates why I don't agree with you... If, as you say, seniors (soph's on JV) get priority, then working harder will not help because they are not a senior/soph yet.
Wrong message, wrong lesson but JMO.
The coach decision topic has been beat to death in past threads so I won't expand too much. Agree with Steve A that there are different philosophies and there isn't necessarily a hard and fast right and wrong. More important to me is how parents and players react and work with the philosophy in place.
CaCO3Girl posted:Will posted:It's not always "the best kids play" in high school, often it's the seniors for their last hoorah...........so if you are a senior you play because you are a senior even though the junior is better than the senior? So I guess making out the lineup card is fairly easy for the coach?
There will be other grades sprinkled in but it won't always be the best 9. You may save your mid 70's pitcher for a blow out closing role, you may keep varsity reserved for 11th and 12th only. There are many things a HS coach can do to give the seniors their last hoorah. Hopefully your seniors are your best players, if not you make a conscious effort to get them in when you can.
Our Varsity is for juniors and seniors, and the rare sophomore (s). In sons 2018 class there were three players who made Varsity as soph's ( it had been 4-5 years since the last soph made Varsity), and all three started from day 1, have played every game since, and they'll now share co-captain duties (first time for three co-captains). Hands down better than any Junior or Senior at 3B, SS, and 1B.
HC plays to win. A senior who isn't a starter, but is a worthy back up, will start in JV games or will start on senior day for the first inning or two. They are told this when HC picks his Varsity roster.
HC also makes it clear to all players that his intentions are to have the best roster to compete. He tells players and parents in the first meeting that he will answer all questions from any parent, to include questions about playing time. He stresses if you ask a question about playing time you may not like the answer he provides. He'll tell you what a player needs to do to see the field.
My son plays in the highest classification in Georgia. Our coach is expected to win so he tells parents and players that the best nine will play.
Last year, we lost in the semis with two seniors, two juniors, two sophomores and three freshmen in the starting lineup.
This year, we have two seniors, four juniors and three sophomores in the starting lineup.
He lets the Dugout Club handle all of the off the field duties. He doesn’t know or care who raised the most money, he wants to coach and develop players.
I’ve seen kids of parents who were heavily involved in volunteering get cut. None of that will determine playing time in his program.
The AD, who just happens to be a legitimate baseball guy, supports him completely and the kids absolutely love and respect him.
I guess it’s not the norm everywhere but we feel very fortunate that our son plays for him.
Gov wrote:
“HC also makes it clear to all players that his intentions are to have the best roster to compete. He tells players and parents in the first meeting that he will answer all questions from any parent, to include questions about playing time. He stresses if you ask a question about playing time you may not like the answer he provides. He'll tell you what a player needs to do to see the field.”
^Our Head Coach is exactly the same way.
CaCO3Girl posted:I think it is you guys that are missing the point of high school baseball.
You have to be qualified to make the team. Sophomores on varsity are rare. At my kids school if you are a 10th grader throwing 80 you don't even get a sniff at varsity. It's competitive and it's high school appropriate.
You people complain about the parents and yet you are trying to turn every high school player into a college stud. It's a GAME! What's the percentage of kids moving on and playing past high school, oh yeah, slim and none and you would rob a senior of some innings here and there in favor of the best 9? It's you guys that have a twisted view of what high school baseball should be.
Play the best 9 - always. It’s not LL...if you want that environment they have a division for HS kids.