What would be an average catcher velocity for high school varsity catchers? More specifically in the class of 2017? What would be an ideal catching velocity? Attached is a video of me throwing, any advice?

Also, here is a link that I found that has workouts that will help pitchers throw harder: http://www.stack.com/a/how-to-throw-harder

Will those workouts in the link above work for position players?

 

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Original Post

Velocity is part God-given, part trainable.

As for catching velocity, it generally doesn't matter directly. Pop times do. Actual, real pop times that are ELITE for advanced HS kids are in the 1.98 - 2.05 range with HIGH accuracy, not random throws 8 feet above the bag. An accurate 2.15 or better is very, very good for HS kids.

Velocity is part of pop time but it's far less important than mechanics, transfer, and catching ability. 

Kyle Boddy posted:

Velocity is part God-given, part trainable.

As for catching velocity, it generally doesn't matter directly. Pop times do. Actual, real pop times that are ELITE for advanced HS kids are in the 1.98 - 2.05 range with HIGH accuracy, not random throws 8 feet above the bag. An accurate 2.15 or better is very, very good for HS kids.

Velocity is part of pop time but it's far less important than mechanics, transfer, and catching ability. 

Thank you. I got my pop time down to a 1.8 personal best and consistently a 1.9 to 2.0 (2.0 from the knees).

I honestly doubt you threw a verified 1.8. The average pop time for elite MLB catchers is in the high 1.8X range. There's no one here to impress, most of us are ex-coaches and parents of once (and still) very good baseball players. 

The best thing you can do for your career is to be honest with yourself and your current abilities. 

Maybe he did hit a 1.8 one time. Nothing surprises me when something is hand timed. There are a ton of kids who have hand-timed 4.4 40's but run 4.6 or higher when electronic timed

There was a kid at our local high school who consistently put up excellent pop times and replicated it in games and threw everybody out. But, he was small, 5'8" 130lbs. O.K. HS hitter, looked to hit oppo base hits. 

As a defensive catcher, he had D1 skills, but did not project as far as size or as a hitter. Lots of D2/D3 interest, but he chose to go to a large state university and pursue the major he was interested in.

Kyle Boddy posted:

I honestly doubt you threw a verified 1.8. The average pop time for elite MLB catchers is in the high 1.8X range. There's no one here to impress, most of us are ex-coaches and parents of once (and still) very good baseball players. 

The best thing you can do for your career is to be honest with yourself and your current abilities. 

I'm not trying to impress any one. I was timed by the other teams coat and he told my coach, why would he lie? I haven't gotten it verified, but will be going to a camp sometime in the future to get my numbers verified. 

Stafford posted:

Maybe he did hit a 1.8 one time. Nothing surprises me when something is hand timed. There are a ton of kids who have hand-timed 4.4 40's but run 4.6 or higher when electronic timed

There was a kid at our local high school who consistently put up excellent pop times and replicated it in games and threw everybody out. But, he was small, 5'8" 130lbs. O.K. HS hitter, looked to hit oppo base hits. 

As a defensive catcher, he had D1 skills, but did not project as far as size or as a hitter. Lots of D2/D3 interest, but he chose to go to a large state university and pursue the major he was interested in.

I agree, I will be getting verified times when I go to a camp this October. Which gives me more time to lift and get stronger and better. 

Kyle Boddy posted:

I honestly doubt you threw a verified 1.8. The average pop time for elite MLB catchers is in the high 1.8X range. There's no one here to impress, most of us are ex-coaches and parents of once (and still) very good baseball players. 

The best thing you can do for your career is to be honest with yourself and your current abilities. 

It might be rare but I have seen HS kids POP 1.8's at showcases. I do not know the OP but I would not be quick dismiss what he says. My guess is that he is pretty quick based on the video, but needs to have it verified at showcase type event.

With all the metrics available today, I think a catcher's throw should be evaluated based on velocity and accuracy. Maybe "pop" with an adjustment based on the throw. Was at a showcase one time where the 3 best POPs would probably throw out 25% of would be runners.

standballdad posted:
Kyle Boddy posted:

I honestly doubt you threw a verified 1.8. The average pop time for elite MLB catchers is in the high 1.8X range. There's no one here to impress, most of us are ex-coaches and parents of once (and still) very good baseball players. 

The best thing you can do for your career is to be honest with yourself and your current abilities. 

It might be rare but I have seen HS kids POP 1.8's at showcases. I do not know the OP but I would not be quick dismiss what he says. My guess is that he is pretty quick based on the video, but needs to have it verified at showcase type event.

Thank you for the support, I do need it verified and I will when I go to a showcase in October.

 

Ripken Fan posted:

With all the metrics available today, I think a catcher's throw should be evaluated based on velocity and accuracy. Maybe "pop" with an adjustment based on the throw. Was at a showcase one time where the 3 best POPs would probably throw out 25% of would be runners.

The accuracy I agree with, but the velocity is not that important; it is a factor; which is why I am trying to get my velocity better. But POP is important.

Wesleythecacther posted:
Ripken Fan posted:

With all the metrics available today, I think a catcher's throw should be evaluated based on velocity and accuracy. Maybe "pop" with an adjustment based on the throw. Was at a showcase one time where the 3 best POPs would probably throw out 25% of would be runners.

The accuracy I agree with, but the velocity is not that important; it is a factor; which is why I am trying to get my velocity better. But POP is important.

Our travel coach told one of our catchers not to showcase yet because college scouts like to see 80+ velo from behind the plate. I am not sure if this is the "new" thing but this literally happened a week ago. He made it seem like a premium is put on velo.

hshuler posted:
Wesleythecacther posted:
Ripken Fan posted:

With all the metrics available today, I think a catcher's throw should be evaluated based on velocity and accuracy. Maybe "pop" with an adjustment based on the throw. Was at a showcase one time where the 3 best POPs would probably throw out 25% of would be runners.

The accuracy I agree with, but the velocity is not that important; it is a factor; which is why I am trying to get my velocity better. But POP is important.

Our travel coach told one of our catchers not to showcase yet because college scouts like to see 80+ velo from behind the plate. I am not sure if this is the "new" thing but this literally happened a week ago. He made it seem like a premium is put on velo.

I personally do not have an 80+ catching velocity, but have gone to college camps. I do understand why your coach would say that because it would put the catcher above the rest and make him stand out.

Wesleythecacther posted:
hshuler posted:
Wesleythecacther posted:
Ripken Fan posted:

With all the metrics available today, I think a catcher's throw should be evaluated based on velocity and accuracy. Maybe "pop" with an adjustment based on the throw. Was at a showcase one time where the 3 best POPs would probably throw out 25% of would be runners.

The accuracy I agree with, but the velocity is not that important; it is a factor; which is why I am trying to get my velocity better. But POP is important.

Our travel coach told one of our catchers not to showcase yet because college scouts like to see 80+ velo from behind the plate. I am not sure if this is the "new" thing but this literally happened a week ago. He made it seem like a premium is put on velo.

I personally do not have an 80+ catching velocity, but have gone to college camps. I do understand why your coach would say that because it would put the catcher above the rest and make him stand out.

Please don't think I said that in order to discourage you because that what not my intent. 

Continue working hard and controlling what you can and hopefully things will work out for you. 

I applaud you for reaching out for help and sincerely wish you the best! Please keep us posted on your progress. 

hshuler posted:
Wesleythecacther posted:
hshuler posted:
Wesleythecacther posted:
Ripken Fan posted:

With all the metrics available today, I think a catcher's throw should be evaluated based on velocity and accuracy. Maybe "pop" with an adjustment based on the throw. Was at a showcase one time where the 3 best POPs would probably throw out 25% of would be runners.

The accuracy I agree with, but the velocity is not that important; it is a factor; which is why I am trying to get my velocity better. But POP is important.

Our travel coach told one of our catchers not to showcase yet because college scouts like to see 80+ velo from behind the plate. I am not sure if this is the "new" thing but this literally happened a week ago. He made it seem like a premium is put on velo.

I personally do not have an 80+ catching velocity, but have gone to college camps. I do understand why your coach would say that because it would put the catcher above the rest and make him stand out.

Please don't think I said that in order to discourage you because that what not my intent. 

Continue working hard and controlling what you can and hopefully things will work out for you. 

I applaud you for reaching out for help and sincerely wish you the best! Please keep us posted on your progress. 

Thank you! I will keep working and keep you guys up to date. I am going to maybe start working with a personal trainer at a gym near my house.

Do not be concern about "pop" time, it creates one handed "lazy" catchers who cannot block the pitchers curve ball. When you "warm" up - practice catching the thrown ball on the heal of your mitt. This allows a quick transfer into the throwing hand. Infielders also should practice.

Question: do you use a Easton catchers mitt?

Bob

Consultant posted:

Do not be concern about "pop" time, it creates one handed "lazy" catchers who cannot block the pitchers curve ball. When you "warm" up - practice catching the thrown ball on the heal of your mitt. This allows a quick transfer into the throwing hand. Infielders also should practice.

Question: do you use a Easton catchers mitt?

Bob

I'm not sure how it creates "lazy" catchers per say. I am more focused on blocking the pictures curve ball then throwing the runner out if I have to choose between the two. and I do not have an Easton mitt, I had All Star 

Kyle Boddy posted:

I honestly doubt you threw a verified 1.8. The average pop time for elite MLB catchers is in the high 1.8X range. There's no one here to impress, most of us are ex-coaches and parents of once (and still) very good baseball players. 

The best thing you can do for your career is to be honest with yourself and your current abilities. 

Kyle ,

i agree with your statement , and I always wonder why I see at showcases -1.8s or even 1.7s and 1.9s for some kids .  I wonder if the one doing the timing is accurate ?  

Is there a definition for a "legal" pop time calculation?  I know the basics, but are there some rules that prohibit the catcher from starting his move long before the ball ever reaches the mitt?  I think I remember seeing some comments here about how catchers "cheat" when it comes to having pop times timed in a showcase type setting (for instance their already standing on the plate when they receive the baseball).

It is helpful for catchers to know their pop times and their velocity.  Both are important!  Some need more improvement in catch and throw technique, others need more improvement on arm strength.  The best catchers are good at both.

Pop times will always be better in workouts than games.  In games the catcher is receiving live in game pitches with a hitter that is likely to swing. In workouts, the catcher is receiving BP slow fastballs mostly thrown right down the middle and no worry about the hitter swinging.

Typically catchers pop times in the 1.8s during workouts would be 2.0 or more during games.  We try to get all in game pop times, but sometimes it just doesn't present itself.  And good in game pop times can be the result of the type of pitch and location of that pitch.

Maybe the most neglected thing to evaluate is foot work.  But in the end if you lack the necessary velocity you will never reach the highest level.  Most all high level catchers have very strong arms.  Sometimes they are former pitchers and shortstops.

Topic near and dear to my heart as my son is a 2017 catcher. Looking at D2s and D3s given his size (5'10" 170lbs). Personally, I think hand-measured pop-times can easily help--or hinder--a given throw by as much as 0.2 seconds. So a kid throwing 2.05 consistently can get an artifact 2.2 or a 1.9. It all averages out in theory, but at a busy combine the 2.05 can get a 2.1, 2.1, and 2.2. Or get a 1.95, 2.0, 2.0. You can see which is better. My son has done two, 10-week weighted ball regimens to increase his positional velo to 74-75 (tops) and pops to 2.0-2.05 or so. He's worked hard and transfers and footwork are good but I don't think any amount of training is going to get close to an 80 positional or legitimate, non-artifact 1.9 pop-time. That's genetics. But he does run a legitimate sub-7.0 60 (6.95 or so), he's a tremendous defensive catcher, and a very solid LD-hitting lefty hitter so I hope he gets a D2/D3 offer at a school he wants. Might not happen though. Very good grades so big school (bias for a few big Virginia state colleges) and club baseball might be in the cards.

 

 

Batty,

Hope my post didn't bother you.  Mid 70s isn't bad at all, upper 70s is good and 80 or better is outstanding.  Arm strength can be improved with age and work.  80 or better is far from impossible.  If he has quick feet and quick release with some accuracy, he has a chance to play most anywhere. If he can hit, run and receive, he can play at a high level.  Remember that many players develop a lot while they are in college.

I agree with you about hand held times.  We usually have at least three timers.  Most all the time they are within a tenth, but not always.  Truth is I like the eye test better.  The guys that can really catch and throw just standout, you don't need a time or radar gun reading to pick those guys out.  But others that aren't there to see it, want to know the numbers.

PGStaff posted:

Batty,

Hope my post didn't bother you.  Mid 70s isn't bad at all, upper 70s is good and 80 or better is outstanding.  Arm strength can be improved with age and work.  80 or better is far from impossible.  If he has quick feet and quick release with some accuracy, he has a chance to play most anywhere. If he can hit, run and receive, he can play at a high level.  Remember that many players develop a lot while they are in college.

I agree with you about hand held times.  We usually have at least three timers.  Most all the time they are within a tenth, but not always.  Truth is I like the eye test better.  The guys that can really catch and throw just standout, you don't need a time or radar gun reading to pick those guys out.  But others that aren't there to see it, want to know the numbers.

I agree with PGStaff. My velocity 2 years ago was 75. I am not sure what it is now. I have quick feet, and I am accurate. I also am able to block and receive. Would the other assets besides pop time and arm strength be able to get you to the next level?

Not bothered in the slightest PGSTAFF. I think your posts and comments are a huge boon to HSBW.

I 'm just being pragmatic/realistic about my son. I agree with 2forU (but we know each other outside of HSBW and since our kids were in LL), velocity is mostly genetics. Or at least the upper limit and how close a player can "access it easily". The rest is work, or very hard work to be precise.

Positionally my son might, in theory, be able to attain close to 80 but he'd have to be working hard and diligently to make those hard-fought gains, and if he's not playing college baseball in the first place...he won't. We'll see. In short, his plus attributes to play college baseball are receiving, hitting, and speed, plus-plus blocking and picking, but pops and positional velocity (the king), is average at D2-D3 level, and below average D1. The latter plus size = take D1 off the table. Embraced that 6 months ago. The key is finding a good academic, financial, baseball, geographic, and social fit. Pretty much in that order. Might not fall into place.

Batty67 posted:

Not bothered in the slightest PGSTAFF. I think your posts and comments are a huge boon to HSBW.

I 'm just being pragmatic/realistic about my son. I agree with 2forU (but we know each other outside of HSBW and since our kids were in LL), velocity is mostly genetics. Or at least the upper limit and how close a player can "access it easily". The rest is work, or very hard work to be precise.

Positionally my son might, in theory, be able to attain close to 80 but he'd have to be working hard and diligently to make those hard-fought gains, and if he's not playing college baseball in the first place...he won't. We'll see. In short, his plus attributes to play college baseball are receiving, hitting, and speed, plus-plus blocking and picking, but pops and positional velocity (the king), is average at D2-D3 level, and below average D1. The latter plus size = take D1 off the table. Embraced that 6 months ago. The key is finding a good academic, financial, baseball, geographic, and social fit. Pretty much in that order. Might not fall into place.

What would be the normal size of a D1 catcher? I am 6 ft and 190 pounds. Good luck to your son in the future as I am going through the recruiting process right now.

Wesleythecacther posted:
Batty67 posted:

Not bothered in the slightest PGSTAFF. I think your posts and comments are a huge boon to HSBW.

I 'm just being pragmatic/realistic about my son. I agree with 2forU (but we know each other outside of HSBW and since our kids were in LL), velocity is mostly genetics. Or at least the upper limit and how close a player can "access it easily". The rest is work, or very hard work to be precise.

Positionally my son might, in theory, be able to attain close to 80 but he'd have to be working hard and diligently to make those hard-fought gains, and if he's not playing college baseball in the first place...he won't. We'll see. In short, his plus attributes to play college baseball are receiving, hitting, and speed, plus-plus blocking and picking, but pops and positional velocity (the king), is average at D2-D3 level, and below average D1. The latter plus size = take D1 off the table. Embraced that 6 months ago. The key is finding a good academic, financial, baseball, geographic, and social fit. Pretty much in that order. Might not fall into place.

What would be the normal size of a D1 catcher? I am 6 ft and 190 pounds. Good luck to your son in the future as I am going through the recruiting process right now.

I looked at Top 25 rosters about a year ago and the average was 6' 1" and 205, if I remember correctly.  Keep working to add strength to that frame and you'll be just fine.   

CatsPop posted:
Wesleythecacther posted:
Batty67 posted:

Not bothered in the slightest PGSTAFF. I think your posts and comments are a huge boon to HSBW.

I 'm just being pragmatic/realistic about my son. I agree with 2forU (but we know each other outside of HSBW and since our kids were in LL), velocity is mostly genetics. Or at least the upper limit and how close a player can "access it easily". The rest is work, or very hard work to be precise.

Positionally my son might, in theory, be able to attain close to 80 but he'd have to be working hard and diligently to make those hard-fought gains, and if he's not playing college baseball in the first place...he won't. We'll see. In short, his plus attributes to play college baseball are receiving, hitting, and speed, plus-plus blocking and picking, but pops and positional velocity (the king), is average at D2-D3 level, and below average D1. The latter plus size = take D1 off the table. Embraced that 6 months ago. The key is finding a good academic, financial, baseball, geographic, and social fit. Pretty much in that order. Might not fall into place.

What would be the normal size of a D1 catcher? I am 6 ft and 190 pounds. Good luck to your son in the future as I am going through the recruiting process right now.

I looked at Top 25 rosters about a year ago and the average was 6" 1" and 205, if I remember correctly.  Keep working to add strength to that frame and you'll be just fine.   

Thank you! I will, I am now lifting 3 days a week for the next 6 months and I will be starting personal training sometime soon. I weighed 200 and then I stared to lift and I did a lot of cardio in a week (10 to 20 minutes every day) and I lost 10 pounds. Now I weigh around 191.

Wesleythecacther posted:
CatsPop posted:
Wesleythecacther posted:
Batty67 posted:

Not bothered in the slightest PGSTAFF. I think your posts and comments are a huge boon to HSBW.

I 'm just being pragmatic/realistic about my son. I agree with 2forU (but we know each other outside of HSBW and since our kids were in LL), velocity is mostly genetics. Or at least the upper limit and how close a player can "access it easily". The rest is work, or very hard work to be precise.

Positionally my son might, in theory, be able to attain close to 80 but he'd have to be working hard and diligently to make those hard-fought gains, and if he's not playing college baseball in the first place...he won't. We'll see. In short, his plus attributes to play college baseball are receiving, hitting, and speed, plus-plus blocking and picking, but pops and positional velocity (the king), is average at D2-D3 level, and below average D1. The latter plus size = take D1 off the table. Embraced that 6 months ago. The key is finding a good academic, financial, baseball, geographic, and social fit. Pretty much in that order. Might not fall into place.

What would be the normal size of a D1 catcher? I am 6 ft and 190 pounds. Good luck to your son in the future as I am going through the recruiting process right now.

I looked at Top 25 rosters about a year ago and the average was 6" 1" and 205, if I remember correctly.  Keep working to add strength to that frame and you'll be just fine.   

Thank you! I will, I am now lifting 3 days a week for the next 6 months and I will be starting personal training sometime soon. I weighed 200 and then I stared to lift and I did a lot of cardio in a week (10 to 20 minutes every day) and I lost 10 pounds. Now I weigh around 191.

The muscle mass you are putting on will weigh more than the little bit of fat lost.  Keep at it!

CatsPop posted:
Wesleythecacther posted:
CatsPop posted:
Wesleythecacther posted:
Batty67 posted:

Not bothered in the slightest PGSTAFF. I think your posts and comments are a huge boon to HSBW.

I 'm just being pragmatic/realistic about my son. I agree with 2forU (but we know each other outside of HSBW and since our kids were in LL), velocity is mostly genetics. Or at least the upper limit and how close a player can "access it easily". The rest is work, or very hard work to be precise.

Positionally my son might, in theory, be able to attain close to 80 but he'd have to be working hard and diligently to make those hard-fought gains, and if he's not playing college baseball in the first place...he won't. We'll see. In short, his plus attributes to play college baseball are receiving, hitting, and speed, plus-plus blocking and picking, but pops and positional velocity (the king), is average at D2-D3 level, and below average D1. The latter plus size = take D1 off the table. Embraced that 6 months ago. The key is finding a good academic, financial, baseball, geographic, and social fit. Pretty much in that order. Might not fall into place.

What would be the normal size of a D1 catcher? I am 6 ft and 190 pounds. Good luck to your son in the future as I am going through the recruiting process right now.

I looked at Top 25 rosters about a year ago and the average was 6" 1" and 205, if I remember correctly.  Keep working to add strength to that frame and you'll be just fine.   

Thank you! I will, I am now lifting 3 days a week for the next 6 months and I will be starting personal training sometime soon. I weighed 200 and then I stared to lift and I did a lot of cardio in a week (10 to 20 minutes every day) and I lost 10 pounds. Now I weigh around 191.

The muscle mass you are putting on will weigh more than the little bit of fat lost.  Keep at it!

I will! Will keep you guys up to date. Got another 6 months! Can't wait to see the improvements and muscle gain in the following months. Should I still be doing cardio every day?

The piece of advice would be to be careful with the weightlifting. My son injured his shoulder prior to his junior year of HS and missed the whole season. Biggest issue is that it was his throwing shoulder, we suspect he hurt it during off season HS weight session. He was getting a bit of interest before that mostly due to his Pop times and he could swing it a little. 

Wesley, 

As the father of a customer of Kyle's who totally buys into what Kyle is teaching, I believe you can learn (and work) to throw harder. I also believe uninformed effort can be counter-productive, no matter how diligent or intense.

My son didn't get much coaching early because I thought I was raising a wrestler, not a baseball player. If I had to do it over again, I'd have invested in better coaching sooner.

Best wishes,

standballdad posted:

The piece of advice would be to be careful with the weightlifting. My son injured his shoulder prior to his junior year of HS and missed the whole season. Biggest issue is that it was his throwing shoulder, we suspect he hurt it during off season HS weight session. He was getting a bit of interest before that mostly due to his Pop times and he could swing it a little. 

I am using a lifting program I got from a CC that I went and visited. Some one from my high school went there and played baseball and he followed their lifting routine and he got very big.

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