Venting...When is it a must swing...tough start to a season!

Batting in the #10 spot is confusing me.  

You and me both...but I guess this coach has not really seen him hit.  Just some hard contact in the previous game and some work bringing in runners in scoring position.  

"good life lessons"

Take a breath.  He's playing. You're not.  He got on base.  Just watch and encourage.

[me, now slinking away thinking about own advice ]

CoachB25 posted:

Batting in the #10 spot is confusing me.  

They probably have an EH (Extra Hitter).

My take is that I would never tell my kid he "MUST" swing at a 3-2 Pitch.  Expanding his strike zone could be a recipe for disaster.  If it is a ball, walk.  If he would have swung at the ball out of the strike zone, he could have struck out, grounded out weakly, popped up, etc. IMHO, son did the right thing.

SultanofSwat posted:

"good life lessons"

Take a breath.  He's playing. You're not.  He got on base.  Just watch and encourage.

[me, now slinking away thinking about own advice ]

My breathing is good.  He is frustrated.  He was asking me what he could be doing differently and the point was there is no good answer other than he needed to try and drive the 3-1 pitch or risk not playing more.  He hits extra every day and works hard, but some things are out of your control.  

The life lesson comment was just saying a bad baseball experience is a good lesson on life and how you never have to stop proving yourself, no free rides. 

I can understand the frustration, but advising him to go against what the coach told him isn't the way to get more playing time.

The coach didn't pull him because he got a walk. He pulled him because it's JV, he is batting in the 10 spot, and there are probably other players the coach wants to get some playing time.

The fact that he has performed well in the past, be it freshman ball, travel ball, little league, or t-ball isn't relevant to his coach now. The only things that matter are what he can do for that coach today.

Uh, a quality at bat with 2 guys on and one out.....it's not a must swing (and especially since it turns out it WASN'T A STRIKE).......it's a must" try not make an out"....and he didn't.  He did his job as a batter.   It's crazy, but your thoughts are almost exactly what I would have written when my son was a sophomore and in that position...but trust me, at some point you start to realize that it's not about making the "big play" it's just about making A play, which your son did.  If the coach pulled him because he didn't swing and got walked to load the bases....then your coach is an idiot.   Trust me, if/when your son gets to college...getting walked in that position can be a game changer....the difference between 2 on and 2 outs and bases loaded and 1 out is HUGE!  Might as well get him started realizing that now...even if your coach doesn't

rynoattack posted:

My take is that I would never tell my kid he "MUST" swing at a 3-2 Pitch.  Expanding his strike zone could be a recipe for disaster.  If it is a ball, walk.  If he would have swung at the ball out of the strike zone, he could have struck out, grounded out weakly, popped up, etc. IMHO, son did the right thing.

 

The pitch in question was the 3-1 pitch which was a called strike and was hittable, but not perfect.  The 3-2 was in the dirt and could not be swung at.

My point was he needed to hit that pitch or risk getting pulled...which is what happened.  When fighting to play who cares about moral victories.  The point is to play...

Buckeye 2015 posted:

Uh, a quality at bat with 2 guys on and one out.....it's not a must swing (and especially since it turns out it WASN'T A STRIKE).......it's a must" try not make an out"....and he didn't.  He did his job as a batter.   It's crazy, but your thoughts are almost exactly what I would have written when my son was a sophomore and in that position...but trust me, at some point you start to realize that it's not about making the "big play" it's just about making A play, which your son did.  If the coach pulled him because he didn't swing and got walked to load the bases....then your coach is an idiot.   Trust me, if/when your son gets to college...getting walked in that position can be a game changer....the difference between 2 on and 2 outs and bases loaded and 1 out is HUGE!  Might as well get him started realizing that now...even if your coach doesn't

I completely agree with you, he did the "right" thing and got a bad result for him personally.  Not a bad result for the team.  

Unfortunately the personal reality for him is likely that if he drove that pitch and the runs in he would have likely gotten the next 2 at bats and 2 more chances to prove himself to his new coach.  

Is doing the right thing and getting a bad result better or worse than taking a chance?  If the chance fails you land in the same spot as the success of taking the walk.  Crazy...

What was the 1st strike? if he's 3-0 and gets the take, then OK. His opportunity was that pitch. 3-1, ball you can't handle, not what you're looking for, you don't swing. Too many bad things can happen. 2 strikes you battle, 1 strike not so much. I think you are reading too much into him not getting another AB. Team BA being what it is, I would think that team OBP is low too and your son got on base, bases loaded 1 out, that puts a ton of pressure on the pitcher and defense.

tanndonn posted:

What was the 1st strike? if he's 3-0 and gets the take, then OK. His opportunity was that pitch. 3-1, ball you can't handle, not what you're looking for, you don't swing. Too many bad things can happen. 2 strikes you battle, 1 strike not so much. I think you are reading too much into him not getting another AB. Team BA being what it is, I would think that team OBP is low too and your son got on base, bases loaded 1 out, that puts a ton of pressure on the pitcher and defense.

The first strike was a called take.  My point is the "bad thing" did happen for him personally.   He got pulled and is part of a pattern.  He has lost his last AB in each game and then in this game he lost his last 2 AB. 

Let's turn this around.  If it was you...how would you solve the problem.  The problem is you want to play more, want to prove yourself.  What do you personally do?  They don't really get to hit in practice because it is too cold. can't prove yourself there.  

Doing what we know is the right thing to do, take the 3-1 you don't like got him no closer to solving the problem he wants to solve...

We preach plate discipline, looking for your pitch, sitting on a pitch, looking for a location that you can be productive. When it's not there, it's just not there. Let the AB progress, wait for the pitcher to make a mistake and don't miss. I would hope that in that situation, your son was looking to do damage, not sacrifice. I'm sitting on something lower in the zone and hopefully middle/middle away that I can drive to the right side(RH hitter), score at least 1, move the other to 3rd, get on 1st maybe 2nd depending on a throw to the plate, if only a single, steal 2nd, 2/3 1 out, turning the order over, playing for a big inning.

His playing time is not determined by that BB. If his tendencies are a pattern and you want him to be more aggressive, then he needs to be more aggressive early in counts, not late. That would be a problematic tendency. Most people aren't paying attention to how AB's progress, they see the end result. The takes and foul balls on strike 1 and strike 2 are the hidden problems. Freshman and JV hitters are lucky to see 1 good pitch/AB, don't miss those opportunities. I think your son had a good AB from your description and good on him.

No! Don't Call Bunt! posted:

tanndonn posted:

What was the 1st strike? if he's 3-0 and gets the take, then OK. His opportunity was that pitch. 3-1, ball you can't handle, not what you're looking for, you don't swing. Too many bad things can happen. 2 strikes you battle, 1 strike not so much. I think you are reading too much into him not getting another AB. Team BA being what it is, I would think that team OBP is low too and your son got on base, bases loaded 1 out, that puts a ton of pressure on the pitcher and defense.

The first strike was a called take.  My point is the "bad thing" did happen for him personally.   He got pulled and is part of a pattern.  He has lost his last AB in each game and then in this game he lost his last 2 AB. 

Let's turn this around.  If it was you...how would you solve the problem.  The problem is you want to play more, want to prove yourself.  What do you personally do?  They don't really get to hit in practice because it is too cold. can't prove yourself there.  

Doing what we know is the right thing to do, take the 3-1 you don't like got him no closer to solving the problem he wants to solve...

 

I get the impression (and would support this line of thinking) that the responses are based on the specific at-bat, and not on what actions might lead to more playing time.  These two issues, while they certainly compliment one another, are not tied together each and every time, and certainly not on a pitch by pitch basis.  I have no idea on how your kid handles high strikes, but my two kids would probably have pulled out the old ax swing and hit some weak grounder.  Might have driven in a run, but would not have looked very polished.  If some kid can hit the high strike and drive it, then perhaps they should (normally this should at least result in a sacrifice fly).

To say differently, if your kid can hit the high strike and look good doing it, then perhaps he should have swung.  Conversely, if he hits it like my kids, then he did the right thing and did not make himself look weak hitting some roll over dribbler.  It sort of all comes back to whether he should try to hit that particular pitch every time it's thrown.

...how would you solve the problem?

"Hey coach, I was wondering... In the game when I took that high pitch, would you rather I tried to drive it - or did I handle it right by just trying to get on base?"

That will give your son the information he needs, and let the coach know that your son is paying attention to game situations.

2017LHPscrewball posted:

No! Don't Call Bunt! posted:

tanndonn posted:

What was the 1st strike? if he's 3-0 and gets the take, then OK. His opportunity was that pitch. 3-1, ball you can't handle, not what you're looking for, you don't swing. Too many bad things can happen. 2 strikes you battle, 1 strike not so much. I think you are reading too much into him not getting another AB. Team BA being what it is, I would think that team OBP is low too and your son got on base, bases loaded 1 out, that puts a ton of pressure on the pitcher and defense.

The first strike was a called take.  My point is the "bad thing" did happen for him personally.   He got pulled and is part of a pattern.  He has lost his last AB in each game and then in this game he lost his last 2 AB. 

Let's turn this around.  If it was you...how would you solve the problem.  The problem is you want to play more, want to prove yourself.  What do you personally do?  They don't really get to hit in practice because it is too cold. can't prove yourself there.  

Doing what we know is the right thing to do, take the 3-1 you don't like got him no closer to solving the problem he wants to solve...

 

I get the impression (and would support this line of thinking) that the responses are based on the specific at-bat, and not on what actions might lead to more playing time.  These two issues, while they certainly compliment one another, are not tied together each and every time, and certainly not on a pitch by pitch basis.  I have no idea on how your kid handles high strikes, but my two kids would probably have pulled out the old ax swing and hit some weak grounder.  Might have driven in a run, but would not have looked very polished.  If some kid can hit the high strike and drive it, then perhaps they should (normally this should at least result in a sacrifice fly).

To say differently, if your kid can hit the high strike and look good doing it, then perhaps he should have swung.  Conversely, if he hits it like my kids, then he did the right thing and did not make himself look weak hitting some roll over dribbler.  It sort of all comes back to whether he should try to hit that particular pitch every time it's thrown.

Yeah, I am with you. My son when he misses is more long fly balls.  Not a lot of ground balls.  

I know my kid and his inclination would have been to swing.  But, he is a people pleaser and once the coach yells gotta be your pitch, his tendency was to lay off.  If coach said nothing I think he swings and tries to drive it and can generally put it deep and at least get the sac fly. 

Rob T posted:

...how would you solve the problem?

"Hey coach, I was wondering... In the game when I took that high pitch, would you rather I tried to drive it - or did I handle it right by just trying to get on base?"

That will give your son the information he needs, and let the coach know that your son is paying attention to game situations.

That's great advice, thanks!  That is a much better approach than the typical,  "how do I get more at bats" that coaches hate.  I will pass that advice along.  

Plus passively reminds the coach he pulled a player after getting a good result.  

Wow, that's a lot of stock being put into one AB of a JV game only five games into the season.  First, nothing you said points to him being pulled definitively due to him not swinging at the 3-1 pitch.  Did the coach specifically tell him that?  Second, HS playing time is earned over time, day in and day out... as much at practice as in games.  New coach or not, he is with these boys every day.  Who the better players are will definitely become clear.

We won a tight league game last night.  One of my best senior players, who is on a streak with the bat, started an early inning with a huge double.  Later, with runners on 1st and 2nd, he took it upon himself to try a push bunt, which he never does.  Popped out to P, almost killing our inning.  Complete brain fart.  Had I removed him later, it would have been for any number of reasons but not because he was not still one of our best players who proves himself day in and day out.

IMO, your son's taking a 3-1 pitch that he saw as slightly up was FAR from 100% unacceptable.  In fact, it was probably correct.  Sure, the JV coach may,  later in that game, may look at what bench players he wants to get in for a few innings and say ok, this guy has two hits so I'm not taking him out, etc. but true playing time is not won or lost by one early JV AB.  That is misplaced focus.  Work hard every day and leave no doubt, including the thousands of times that he will swing at pitches he shouldn't and not swing at pitches he should.  It's baseball.

Lastly, looking at the level of detail and background you provided, I am with Sultan.  I know you said your breathing is fine, but if you are going to really enjoy the rest of the journey, you seriously need to relax and not hang on every pitch.

JMO.

rynoattack posted:

CoachB25 posted:

Batting in the #10 spot is confusing me.  

They probably have an EH (Extra Hitter).

I've never seen the EH in high school and didn't know it was allowed.   Also, in the OP, it says that his son, "never saw the field again."  Perhaps I'm reading that wrong but that suggested to me that he was playing the field.  The EH can not play the field.  

DUDE, CHILL!!!!!  Why do you care so much?  Do you think you have ANY control over his JV season AT ALL?  Or is it more likely you will get onto your kid so much, with your UNACCEPTABLE, that he will shoot you the bird and say screw this baseball thing?  

cabbagedad posted:

Wow, that's a lot of stock being put into one AB of a JV game only five games into the season.  First, nothing you said points to him being pulled definitively due to him not swinging at the 3-1 pitch.  Did the coach specifically tell him that?  Second, HS playing time is earned over time, day in and day out... as much at practice as in games.  New coach or not, he is with these boys every day.  Who the better players are will definitely become clear.

We won a tight league game last night.  One of my best senior players, who is on a streak with the bat, started an early inning with a huge double.  Later, with runners on 1st and 2nd, he took it upon himself to try a push bunt, which he never does.  Popped out to P, almost killing our inning.  Complete brain fart.  Had I removed him later, it would have been for any number of reasons but not because he was not still one of our best players who proves himself day in and day out.

IMO, your son's taking a 3-1 pitch that he saw as slightly up was FAR from 100% unacceptable.  In fact, it was probably correct.  Sure, the JV coach may,  later in that game, may look at what bench players he wants to get in for a few innings and say ok, this guy has two hits so I'm not taking him out, etc. but true playing time is not won or lost by one early JV AB.  That is misplaced focus.  Work hard every day and leave no doubt, including the thousands of times that he will swing at pitches he shouldn't and not swing at pitches he should.  It's baseball.

Lastly, looking at the level of detail and background you provided, I am with Sultan.  I know you said your breathing is fine, but if you are going to really enjoy the rest of the journey, you seriously need to relax and not hang on every pitch.

JMO.

 

I provided the detail, because if you don't, people just ask.  it was easier to just do it upfront.  My level of enjoyment corresponds with my sons. If he is happy I am too.  I am fine with him hitting .150 if he is.  I am fine with him quitting if he is.  It matters to him, so it matters to me.

I agree in part with you. Of course nothing should be judged by a single at bat or pitch.  And, who the best players are will become clear over time.  The coach did not say he got pulled because of that pitch and I don't believe he did.  

But, he has been following a pattern. Dropping down in the order and reducing at bats prior to this at bat.  Then this was the worst case of all the games.  Just a single at bat.  

I 100% believe that if he drove the ball for a double in that spot, he does not get pulled.  Because that has been what we have seen so far across all players.  If you don't take advantage of potential opportunities when presented there is no guarantee you will get another opportunity.  The coach if asked I think would say, my son did the right thing in taking the walk.  BUT, his actions say differently.  They say...drive the ball for a hit or I give away your at bats.  

I completely agree with you, he did the "right" thing and got a bad result for him personally.  Not a bad result for the team.  

Unfortunately the personal reality for him is likely that if he drove that pitch and the runs in he would have likely gotten the next 2 at bats and 2 more chances to prove himself to his new coach.  

Is doing the right thing and getting a bad result better or worse than taking a chance?  If the chance fails you land in the same spot as the success of taking the walk.  Crazy...

Is anyone else bothered by this, that it is more important to be more concerned by what's best for you personally over and above what's best for the team?  I apologize if I misunderstood what the OP meant to say.

I've always told my son that it's a team sports and he should always do what's best for the team.  He may not be noticed at once, but sooner or later, if he keeps doing what is right for the team and perform when needed, everyone around him will appreciate what he brings to the team.  And if it didn't happen or turn out that way (i.e. the coach is just closed minded or didn't give him enough chance), at least he is learning a more important life lesson of how to be a man and always do what is the right thing even if he doesn't benefit as much from it.

CoachB25 posted:

rynoattack posted:

CoachB25 posted:

Batting in the #10 spot is confusing me.  

They probably have an EH (Extra Hitter).

I've never seen the EH in high school and didn't know it was allowed.   Also, in the OP, it says that his son, "never saw the field again."  Perhaps I'm reading that wrong but that suggested to me that he was playing the field.  The EH can not play the field.  

He was the starting 3rd baseman and batted in the 10th spot.  A different kid was the EH earlier in the lineup not playing the field.  When he got lifted to not hit, someone took his spot at third for remainder of the game.  

CaCO3Girl posted:

DUDE, CHILL!!!!!  Why do you care so much?  Do you think you have ANY control over his JV season AT ALL?  Or is it more likely you will get onto your kid so much, with your UNACCEPTABLE, that he will shoot you the bird and say screw this baseball thing?  

You seem very angry.  

No! Don't Call Bunt! posted:

CaCO3Girl posted:

DUDE, CHILL!!!!!  Why do you care so much?  Do you think you have ANY control over his JV season AT ALL?  Or is it more likely you will get onto your kid so much, with your UNACCEPTABLE, that he will shoot you the bird and say screw this baseball thing?  

You seem very angry.  

WOW, that's all you got out of that?  Just WOW!

It does seem like a heckuva lot of overreaction about one at bat.  Parents aren't the coach, it isn't the parents place to say what is unacceptable or not on the Baseball field, and 99% of kids can't stand having Mom or Dad disect minutae of their game like that.

Last summer in 14U my Kid didn't run out a pop fly.  He came up to me in between games and said "I know, I know, I should have run that out" and I told him "that's between you & your coach...now, what do you want for lunch?"  He got it.

My job as Dad is to help provide opportunities and then sit back and let my Kid have his own athletic career.  I'm a batting practice pitcher/groundball hitter/transportation provider/ financial provider, not his coach.

as CACO said, you can drive your kid away from the game trying to coach him at home.  Not much good is gonna come from that

CaCO3Girl posted:

No! Don't Call Bunt! posted:

CaCO3Girl posted:

DUDE, CHILL!!!!!  Why do you care so much?  Do you think you have ANY control over his JV season AT ALL?  Or is it more likely you will get onto your kid so much, with your UNACCEPTABLE, that he will shoot you the bird and say screw this baseball thing?  

You seem very angry.  

WOW, that's all you got out of that?  Just WOW!

Mostly I got that you are most likely transferring issues you have / had with your own son to me (e.g getting flicked off).  Attacking me for some reason. I didn't find and don't find the walk unacceptable, the coach did based on his actions.  

I don't "get onto" my son.  We get along.  He came to me and asked what I thought of how to deal with situation moving forward.  How get more playing time.  We together drew the conclusion that the walk led to the situation not improving.  That if he swung and was out he would have likely ended up in the same situation as the walk.  Getting benched.

That the only scenario that had a chance of getting more at bats was taking the chance and hitting the 3-1 pitch.  

I ask again, what advice would you have given?  What actions to take to not get pulled, since that is HIS goal...

I feel stress just reading this...  I know nothing about relationship between Bunt and his son, but seems like a lot of pressure and stress over 1 at bat in a JV game.  As we all know, coaches sometimes make decisions that we don't agree with or understand.  Its early in the year and a JV game.  I like the approach that Rob T put out there.  You really cant say why he was pulled or what would have happened had he hit a double...  Only the coach knows and to try and figure out what was in coach's mind will just drive you crazy.  Maybe he wanted a better hitter to support back end of line up, maybe he wanted to see how your son handled being dropped in the order, maybe he isnt a good coach - who knows... Support your son and tell him your proud of him for working a walk and getting on base and to keep working hard.  

3and2Fastball posted:

It does seem like a heckuva lot of overreaction about one at bat.  Parents aren't the coach, it isn't the parents place to say what is unacceptable or not on the Baseball field, and 99% of kids can't stand having Mom or Dad disect minutae of their game like that.

Last summer in 14U my Kid didn't run out a pop fly.  He came up to me in between games and said "I know, I know, I should have run that out" and I told him "that's between you & your coach...now, what do you want for lunch?"  He got it.

My job as Dad is to help provide opportunities and then sit back and let my Kid have his own athletic career.  I'm a batting practice pitcher/groundball hitter/transportation provider/ financial provider, not his coach.

as CACO said, you can drive your kid away from the game trying to coach him at home.  Not much good is gonna come from that

I agree with all of this.   

I believe you are overcomplicating the event. Your son is at bat. The count is 3-1. His job is to be selective & get his pitch and hammer it. If it is a borderline pitch, or not where his go zone is, the smart play is to take & fill up the count. You are asking him to be in consideration of all of the background information you relate while at bat & factor that into the equation & swing at a take pitch because he has moved down in the order & may get pulled & career over & bla bla bla. This is impossible.

I mean absolutely no offense by this my friend, but be realistic. Your son is a Sophomore on JV hitting in the 10 hole. He may very well never play beyond HS. It's his game now. It's fine to have a conversation about where the 3-1 was & why he took it but if you lay your info given here on him you are doing harm, not good.. He will either figure things out and progress as a player or not. Your influence over events is heading well into the rear view mirror. Ease off on trying to steer his path. If he becomes a truly exceptional HS player, & he has time to do so, it will have absolutely no relation to the 3-1 pitch. Wish you both well. Chill out & enjoy it. 

FriarFred posted:

I feel stress just reading this...  I know nothing about relationship between Bunt and his son, but seems like a lot of pressure and stress over 1 at bat in a JV game.  As we all know, coaches sometimes make decisions that we don't agree with or understand.  Its early in the year and a JV game.  I like the approach that Rob T put out there.  You really cant say why he was pulled or what would have happened had he hit a double...  Only the coach knows and to try and figure out what was in coach's mind will just drive you crazy.  Maybe he wanted a better hitter to support back end of line up, maybe he wanted to see how your son handled being dropped in the order, maybe he isnt a good coach - who knows... Support your son and tell him your proud of him for working a walk and getting on base and to keep working hard.  

Sorry this is coming across as stress over an at bat.  It is and was not like that in my house.  Honestly it was like a 2 minute conversation before we switched to talking about an essay due the next day.  It was never discussed again.  

I don't believe though for a second that if he hit a double in that spot that he gets pulled before his next at bat.  I don't think you or really anyone on here believes that.  

No! Don't Call Bunt! posted:

CaCO3Girl posted:

No! Don't Call Bunt! posted:

CaCO3Girl posted:

DUDE, CHILL!!!!!  Why do you care so much?  Do you think you have ANY control over his JV season AT ALL?  Or is it more likely you will get onto your kid so much, with your UNACCEPTABLE, that he will shoot you the bird and say screw this baseball thing?  

You seem very angry.  

WOW, that's all you got out of that?  Just WOW!

Mostly I got that you are most likely transferring issues you have / had with your own son to me (e.g getting flicked off).  Attacking me for some reason. I didn't find and don't find the walk unacceptable, the coach did based on his actions.  

I don't "get onto" my son.  We get along.  He came to me and asked what I thought of how to deal with situation moving forward.  How get more playing time.  We together drew the conclusion that the walk led to the situation not improving.  That if he swung and was out he would have likely ended up in the same situation as the walk.  Getting benched.

That the only scenario that had a chance of getting more at bats was taking the chance and hitting the 3-1 pitch.  

I ask again, what advice would you have given?  What actions to take to not get pulled, since that is HIS goal...

You said:   "Should he have swung at the 3-1????  Seems like who cares, but my son and I had a long conversation last night that he should of…100%!  The walk was unacceptable.  "

^^^^^How exactly do you think that sounded?

"He came to me and asked what I thought of how to deal with situation moving forward.  How get more playing time.  "

You don't coach the team, therefore you have ZERO knowledge on the subject and likely fed him the wrong information, which won't make his life any easier with his coach.

I haven't talked about baseball with my son like that since about 11u, he's in 10th grade currently.  This is his team and his dream, I drive the car and I write the checks, that's MY job.  I don't critique.  If he doesn't like what happened during that at bat, or after, then he should talk to the coach about WHY he was pulled.  Supposition is usually pointless, this is between your son and his coach and you are absolutely not involved. 

Steve A. posted:

I believe you are overcomplicating the event. Your son is at bat. The count is 3-1. His job is to be selective & get his pitch and hammer it. If it is a borderline pitch, or not where his go zone is, the smart play is to take & fill up the count. You are asking him to be in consideration of all of the background information you relate while at bat & factor that into the equation & swing at a take pitch because he has moved down in the order & may get pulled & career over & bla bla bla. This is impossible.

I mean absolutely no offense by this my friend, but be realistic. Your son is a Sophomore on JV hitting in the 10 hole. He may very well never play beyond HS. It's his game now. It's fine to have a conversation about where the 3-1 was & why he took it but if you lay your info given here on him you are doing harm, not good.. He will either figure things out and progress as a player or not. Your influence over events is heading well into the rear view mirror. Ease off on trying to steer his path. If he becomes a truly exceptional HS player, & he has time to do so, it will have absolutely no relation to the 3-1 pitch. Wish you both well. Chill out & enjoy it. 

Let me ask you a question, let's remove the background from this.  Player comes to you and says I am 0-7 and coach is pulling my at bats, but I don't want him to.  

What do you tell your son to do?  Take the walk and hope the coach gives him more time?  

It is high school Baseball, kids get pulled out of games for all sorts of reasons.  Often at the JV or Freshman level substitutions are planned out in advance, regardless of the game situation or score.  i.e. "After Johnny gets 3 at bats I'm gonna put Tommy in", that kind of thing can be decided days in advance of a game.  

When I first read this earlier this morning, my first thought was:  If you had a long conversation about this, you are way too involved.  Let your kid breathe or he will start to love the game less.  Seen it happen a lot.

No! Don't Call Bunt! posted:

cabbagedad posted:

Wow, that's a lot of stock being put into one AB of a JV game only five games into the season.  First, nothing you said points to him being pulled definitively due to him not swinging at the 3-1 pitch.  Did the coach specifically tell him that?  Second, HS playing time is earned over time, day in and day out... as much at practice as in games.  New coach or not, he is with these boys every day.  Who the better players are will definitely become clear.

We won a tight league game last night.  One of my best senior players, who is on a streak with the bat, started an early inning with a huge double.  Later, with runners on 1st and 2nd, he took it upon himself to try a push bunt, which he never does.  Popped out to P, almost killing our inning.  Complete brain fart.  Had I removed him later, it would have been for any number of reasons but not because he was not still one of our best players who proves himself day in and day out.

IMO, your son's taking a 3-1 pitch that he saw as slightly up was FAR from 100% unacceptable.  In fact, it was probably correct.  Sure, the JV coach may,  later in that game, may look at what bench players he wants to get in for a few innings and say ok, this guy has two hits so I'm not taking him out, etc. but true playing time is not won or lost by one early JV AB.  That is misplaced focus.  Work hard every day and leave no doubt, including the thousands of times that he will swing at pitches he shouldn't and not swing at pitches he should.  It's baseball.

Lastly, looking at the level of detail and background you provided, I am with Sultan.  I know you said your breathing is fine, but if you are going to really enjoy the rest of the journey, you seriously need to relax and not hang on every pitch.

JMO.

 

I provided the detail, because if you don't, people just ask.  it was easier to just do it upfront.  My level of enjoyment corresponds with my sons. If he is happy I am too.  I am fine with him hitting .150 if he is.  I am fine with him quitting if he is.  It matters to him, so it matters to me.

I agree in part with you. Of course nothing should be judged by a single at bat or pitch.  And, who the best players are will become clear over time.  The coach did not say he got pulled because of that pitch and I don't believe he did.  

But, he has been following a pattern. Dropping down in the order and reducing at bats prior to this at bat.  Then this was the worst case of all the games.  Just a single at bat.  

I 100% believe that if he drove the ball for a double in that spot, he does not get pulled.  Because that has been what we have seen so far across all players.  If you don't take advantage of potential opportunities when presented there is no guarantee you will get another opportunity.  The coach if asked I think would say, my son did the right thing in taking the walk.  BUT, his actions say differently.  They say...drive the ball for a hit or I give away your at bats.  

 

I'll just take one more stab...  

It's totally fine, in fact fun, to bring up these specific scenarios and dissect them, to vent (as your title indicates), to analyze, to play arm chair QB, etc.  I'm just saying that I and several others who have been down this road are picking up some dialog that indicates you are heading down a path that may not be the healthiest for you and your son when it comes to your baseball experience in the coming years.  Of course, you know your situation best and know how to parent your own kids best.  But there are clear flags that we are seeing and it may help you to be a little more open to hearing some of what we are saying.

Best to ya.

No! Don't Call Bunt! posted:

I 100% believe that if he drove the ball for a double in that spot, he does not get pulled.  Because that has been what we have seen so far across all players.  If you don't take advantage of potential opportunities when presented there is no guarantee you will get another opportunity.  The coach if asked I think would say, my son did the right thing in taking the walk.  BUT, his actions say differently.  They say...drive the ball for a hit or I give away your at bats.  

 

You seem convinced that he would have stepped up and done big things on that 1 pitch (Even though you mention 0-7 and hitting in the .100's.  Have you thought of it the other way?  What if he swings at the strike he can't handle and makes a bad out.  Especially after the coach just said to look for his pitch.  Could result in the free fall continuing and him becoming a bench player.

At the end of the day you need to do what is right in the situation.  Seemed like he had a great AB that helped his team.  That has to be the right answer.

cabbagedad posted:

No! Don't Call Bunt! posted:

cabbagedad posted:

Wow, that's a lot of stock being put into one AB of a JV game only five games into the season.  First, nothing you said points to him being pulled definitively due to him not swinging at the 3-1 pitch.  Did the coach specifically tell him that?  Second, HS playing time is earned over time, day in and day out... as much at practice as in games.  New coach or not, he is with these boys every day.  Who the better players are will definitely become clear.

We won a tight league game last night.  One of my best senior players, who is on a streak with the bat, started an early inning with a huge double.  Later, with runners on 1st and 2nd, he took it upon himself to try a push bunt, which he never does.  Popped out to P, almost killing our inning.  Complete brain fart.  Had I removed him later, it would have been for any number of reasons but not because he was not still one of our best players who proves himself day in and day out.

IMO, your son's taking a 3-1 pitch that he saw as slightly up was FAR from 100% unacceptable.  In fact, it was probably correct.  Sure, the JV coach may,  later in that game, may look at what bench players he wants to get in for a few innings and say ok, this guy has two hits so I'm not taking him out, etc. but true playing time is not won or lost by one early JV AB.  That is misplaced focus.  Work hard every day and leave no doubt, including the thousands of times that he will swing at pitches he shouldn't and not swing at pitches he should.  It's baseball.

Lastly, looking at the level of detail and background you provided, I am with Sultan.  I know you said your breathing is fine, but if you are going to really enjoy the rest of the journey, you seriously need to relax and not hang on every pitch.

JMO.

 

I provided the detail, because if you don't, people just ask.  it was easier to just do it upfront.  My level of enjoyment corresponds with my sons. If he is happy I am too.  I am fine with him hitting .150 if he is.  I am fine with him quitting if he is.  It matters to him, so it matters to me.

I agree in part with you. Of course nothing should be judged by a single at bat or pitch.  And, who the best players are will become clear over time.  The coach did not say he got pulled because of that pitch and I don't believe he did.  

But, he has been following a pattern. Dropping down in the order and reducing at bats prior to this at bat.  Then this was the worst case of all the games.  Just a single at bat.  

I 100% believe that if he drove the ball for a double in that spot, he does not get pulled.  Because that has been what we have seen so far across all players.  If you don't take advantage of potential opportunities when presented there is no guarantee you will get another opportunity.  The coach if asked I think would say, my son did the right thing in taking the walk.  BUT, his actions say differently.  They say...drive the ball for a hit or I give away your at bats.  

 

I'll just take one more stab...  

It's totally fine, in fact fun, to bring up these specific scenarios and dissect them, to vent (as your title indicates), to analyze, to play arm chair QB, etc.  I'm just saying that I and several others who have been down this road are picking up some dialog that indicates you are heading down a path that may not be the healthiest for you and your son when it comes to your baseball experience in the coming years.  Of course, you know your situation best and know how to parent your own kids best.  But there are clear flags that we are seeing and it may help you to be a little more open to hearing some of what we are saying.

Best to ya.

Thanks, much appreciated.  Yes, good to vent and fun to diagnose.  

A player has to have an approach.  Having an approach that includes swinging at borderline pitches on a hitter's count to earn more playing time may not achieve the desired result.

edit... ahhh, MN Baseball beat me to it.