Ok ladies I need to hear some thoughts on this tricky situation. My son was paired up with 2 other freshman roommates assigned by the coach. They were friends before and as it turns out they are really into the drinking scene - like every night now. That is their business. At the parent meeting the coach went on about curfue, room checks etc. Made the parents feel really good. So far there has been 1 check for curfue and one group got busted for drinking. They had to run an entire practice.

Now, my son made the decision years ago that drinking was something he wasn't in to. But he's been put with 2 guys who are - and when they are, they get really loud, obnoxious and are just really inconsiderate. My son has basically become a hermit in his room whenever he's 'home' because it's become an every night thing. He doesn't want to be around it when they are getting wasted and has a different set of priorities for his college life.

Switching apartments now isn't an option. I don't feel that I can do or say anything about the situation. I know that it should be up to my son to deal with it. So what does he do? I don't think he can talk to them about it. For alot of kids the partying is all part of the college scene. He also doesn't want to be 'guilty by association' and have to run for a practice. Does he go to the coach? - do we as his parents tell the coach? - or does he just deal with it for the rest of the year? He's only 2 months into his first year of college and it makes me feel bad that he has to live like this.

I'm looking for all advice and opinions (and some prayers) about this. Thanks!!!
Original Post
Mom - You've definately got my prayers.

The best advice I have for you is that you might want to pose this question in the general forum as well. I think there might be some dads that could have some good advice as well as some moms. It's a situation that many parents and players have dealt with I'm sure.
Hope you all dont mind a dad chiming in...

Going on what you have said this is a really big issue with no easy solution. Speaking from my college experience the excessive drinking can bring about worse issues one of which is these guys will not be making the grades for the classes they are taking - my 1st semester I had something like a 1.2 GPA.

My advice to your son is to spend more time away from the apartment....library, campus clubs, etc. Distance himself from the other guys.

Most likely the guys will give him a hard time but he will be better off staying away from the "cool" stuff. Make an objective - all A's or something and focus on that.

As he makes more friends at school he can be more open with what is going on and hopefully they will allow him to hang out with them.

If all else fails I would approach the coaching staff! It took me 3 years to get my GPA back up to something reasonable. Don't let these guys steal your son's opportunity for an education and positive college experience.

My Prayers are with you and your family!
Hmmmm,...trying to think waaaaaay back to the old college dorm/apartment days. I feel for your son and I commend his mature behavior!
I just cant help thinking that surely he is not the first kid who has been mismatched with his room mates.

There has got to be some good feedback from the HSBBW out there.
I too, think this would be a good post for the general forums area. I personally would be interested to see what the dads and other coaches opinions are about this.

There has to be some sort of backup plan in these types of circumstances.
Honestly I'd try to resolve this as quick as possible before it gets worse.
Does your son know of anyone who would be willing to switch with him? If he does, perhaps they could both go into the coach and tell him that they have already worked it out, just need him to give them the a-ok and sign on the dotted line.
If that isnt a solution, even though it may not be the most popular approach, I'd have my son go into the coach and just tell him straight up. Coach,.....I need a quieter more studious apartment, and how do I make this happen?

Part of me really wants to say,
" Kick butt and take names later ",....
but not sure how well that will go over! ha!

I have a feeling no matter how many future practices
the " partiers " have to run,..they aren't going to change their partying ways.
Unfortunately it takes a while, some longer than others, to get that whole party scenario out of their system.

Ya know,... the more I think about it, the more I'm liking my " Kick butt and take names to the coach " approach! Its hard core, but these guys are freshmen,..obliviously underage,...the sooner they learn the rules,.the better!

Just my opinion,...hope it helps! I'll be watching to see what others have to say.
Last edited by shortstopmom
Don't let these guys steal your son's opportunity for an education and positive college experience.

Yes!!!!!!!!!!!!! Nicely said!!! I couldnt agree more!!!!!
You're in a delicate position. Although he's away at college now, I'm sure you still feel very connected to your son. I envision similiar issues for my son who will be going to college next year and does not drink either. Assuming you were recruited by the college coach, maybe you have a rapport with him already. Remember, they are supposed to be teaching or guiding the players too. I'd consider talking with the coach about your son's general experience so far. Tell him that your son is adjusting to the roommates but they keep "different hours"..maybe he already knows about the situation. if he knows you're worried about it, he might do something.
Initially, I think he needs to handle it himself. My daughter and her best friend from High School were roommates during her Freshman year. 10 x12 dorm room and this girl turned out to be the worst possible roommate. She was not drinking - but there were so many problems.

If the guys drink so much that they are academically ineligible, the problem will solve itself. When mid semester grades come out they may be low enough to shake them into sobriety. I agree with the idea of finding a new circle of friends and even a study group. Personally, if it were me, I would quietly let the coach know that I don't drink, etc. and that I don't want to be lumped in and judged with those who do. I would do that before these guys get themselves in a deep pile of poo. Meanwhile, pray over your boy every day.
Have your son go to the team captains or to older players he can trust.
Often team mates work out these problems themselves and let the older players be the ones to decide if the coach needs to know or not.
Coaches usually have long first meetings with the team, usually to instill the fear of g-d for unacceptable behavior and consequences. Eek

If they keep it up, they won't be around long anyway.
My son had the same problem his freshman year - his roommate starting drinking at 9 am and continued all day. My son found some good friends down the hall and spent a lot of time with them, he always worked in the library every evening and spent as much time as possible out of the room. Obviously the roommate flunked out and this year he is rooming with the friends he made. A really nice group now. It doesn't make the first year easy but he did find a way around it and is a better person for it. Good luck!
I definitely agree that your son needs to be the one to handle the situation at least initially. But you as parents can help by talking through with him who he should talk to and what he might say.

I'm 50/50 about whether it might work to just distance himself from these guys for now while he waits to see if they either self-destruct or wise up. My initial thought was that he needed to protect himself from "guilt by association" by having a meeting with a coach about this. But I understand if he is reluctant to "rat out" his roommates.

The suggestion to go to an older team captain (or two) with the problem initially makes sense to me. But I wouldn't rule out your son needing to go to a coach to say "I'm committed to following the rules and keeping my grades up, and it's really tough to do that with the living situation I have been assigned to" and then let the coaches ask the questions from that point.

Good luck, and let us know how it turns out for him!

This is a very difficult situation, especially because you need to consider the team dynamic and what the reprocussions may be if your son decides to go to the coaches. If it were me, I would definetly NOT be calling the coaches myself right now. I believe one of the important aspects of a college education is what you learn OUTSIDE of the classroom....and one of those lessons is dealing with uncomfortable and unpleasant situations. If it were my son, and he came to me for advice, I would first tell him to try to distance himself from his room mates as much as he can. Basically, try to be away from those guys as much as he can...study halls, library, classes, socializing with other members of the team, extra work in the batting cages, etc. If he can do that, I think his room mate's behavior will ultimately resolve the situation on its own (ie, academic ineligibility). If he feels he needs to talk to someone about the situation, I think I would first advise him to go to an upperclassman team mate with the situation. Is this drinking and partying a "team" problem? Or a "room mate" problem? If it is a "room mate" problem, perhaps some upperclass leaders can lean on those guys with some pressure to conform to team rules. I would think new freshman would succomb pretty easily if some of the respected upperclass players laid into them. Alot of times, many of these problems can take care of themselves without getting the coach involved. However, if all else fails.....I would ultimately have your son talk to the coach about the situation. JMO. Good luck, let us know what you decide and how it goes!
I agree with luvbb. Going to the coaches would show that he is not capable to dealing with difficult situations on his own. If it is a room mates situation rather than a team problem he should talk to the captain or upper classman. If it is a team problem then he should just distance himself from the social side as much as he can. I think this is all just part of learning to deal with the college thing his first year. Always very difficult. He sounds like a good kid and I am sure he will get through it just fine.
Above advice is very good, I definetly WOULD NOT as a parent go to the coach. That's not done in college.
And as luvbb suggests, there are team dynamics you just don't want your player to disrupt by going directly to the coach, first. These are issues that all college students learn to deal with, baseball or no baseball.
Coaches assign captains for reasons, some to help handle off field issues.
Another suggestion may be to speak to an RA (resident assistant), for advice if he is living in a dorm.
We went through the same thing with both of our sons. Both were not drinkers, but were assigned party animal roommates their freshman year. I think they dealt with it initially by staying away from their apts as much as possible...study hall, library, etc.

Both finally reached a point where they confronted their roommates and worked out solutions that got them through the year. In looking back, those experiences helped our guys define what was important to them and gave them the confidence to stand up for it. It didn't happen right away, but it did happen.

I'd let your son figure out what's best in his situation. He's the one who will have to deal with the consequences. Support and encourage his good choices, but let him handle the problems between teammates.

PS. Our sons still stay in touch with their freshman roomies. I personally believe God put them together for a reason and they all became better men through the experience.
Last edited by TxMom
Soooo my "kick butt and take names to the coach later " wasn't a real winner here, huh? Well,... to be honest I pretty much figured on that. What I am suprised about is how many people are giving advice for Hoovmom15's son to actually " look the other way ", or to " distance himself ",... from his OWN space of living in hopes that the problem over time, will resolve itself.

HUH ???????? Confused
Perhaps its because we are from a military family, with a military mentality, but I just flatly don't get that. Maybe I'm interpreting things wrong, but it sounds like people are almost " afraid " of taking an issue up with a coach. Why I wonder?
Lets remember folks, coachess are human beings ,..not Gods. We hand our sons over to them. While I agree they aren't supposed to be babysitters,...our sons are in
their care, especially if these athletes are REQUIRED to live in an athletic dorm/apartment.

If our boys get hurt,..who's usually the first one at the hospital? A coach, if he's a good one.
If there's a family emergency, who notifies the player? The coach, if he's a good one.
Who wants the very best for his players so that the players can concentrate on giving the team their best?
The coach, if he's a good one.

I believe off the field antics can directly affect on-field preformance.

It sounds like people are asking Hoovmom15's son to tip-toe-around issues for sake of not making " waves " or for the sake of not " ratting out " a fellow player.
I doubt very much that the roomates/teammates who are partying and making Hoovemom's sons life miserable, have given half a second of a thought as to the negative effect they are having on him. Thats not being a team mate, thats being stupidly selfish.
So tell me again, why should Hoovemom's son be self-sacraficing loyal to the boys breaking the rules, to the extreme point of keeping away from his " home " and staying in the library or other friends apartments/dorms?????

Her son has earned his way there. I dont understand how others, ( who by the way, chances are, if they are freshman, they are under age and breaking the law by drinking ) get to continue with their antics, at the sake of a good kid's sanity.

If I was the coach, I'd want to know. I would need to know.

Underage drinking and over indulgent drinking in colleges is waaaay out of control in this country. Too many people IMO are too ready to " look the other way " and hope the issue goes away. Underage drinking has been sadly accepted as
" just a college way of life ".

I dont believe in sticking my head in the sand and keeping my fingers crossed it all goes away just for the sake of not rocking the generally-accepted social boat.
In the meantime, when laws are being broken, lives can be ruined.
For that matter, lives can not only be ruined, but God forbid, could be ended.
Dramatic, but true. It happens.

Laws are made to protect.

Like I suggested before, I would hope that Hoovemom15's son might work a switch out himself and get his own situation undercontrol as soon as possible.
In the meantime, whether its Hoovemom's son, the upper classmen, or a parent, the drinking needs to stop and the coach needs to know.

Gotta love the HSBBW,...all opinions allowed to be stated ,...in a free country,....where we can agree, to disagree.
Not trying to offend anyone,.... I just care about these kids, I sincerely care about our young adults.

There are only a few young men who get the golden ticket, that golden dream of playing college ball becomes a reality, and then to blow it all for a beer?????
Its truely disheartening.
How many boys would jump in a nano second to take their place.
Only about a bazillion.

Shortstop mom is off her soapbox! Smile
Last edited by shortstopmom
From TxMom:

Both finally reached a point where they confronted their roommates and worked out solutions that got them through the year.

This is actually a very good solution............

And, your points are right on, ShortStopMomma.

But, maybe sometimes things can be worked out before getting the coach involved with less repercussions..........
Last edited by FormerObserver
Maybe I'm interpreting things wrong, but it sounds like people are almost " afraid " of taking an issue up with a coach.


I understand where you are coming from in your thoughts on the subject. IMO, having a son who is now in his 4th year of college ball....not going to the coach right away is NOT due to an issue of being "afraid" of the coach. It is more an issue of "chain of command".....which I think you have experience with in the military. If this boy went directly to the coach, there would probably be reprocussions from his room mates (not that big of a deal reall, IMO), but more importantly....the reprocussions coming from his team mates would be more imporant here (you know...."better not have 'Johnny' involved in any extra-curricular team function, because if he doesn't like something, he will probably go to the coach about it"....just an example). I do not think he would be looked too kindly upon if he went right to the head honcho right away without FIRST trying to deal with the situation on his own, and secondly trying to deal with it thru his upperclass leaders. I know that there have been a number of instances where upperclass players have laid down the law to freshmen players when they think the freshmen have acted inappropriately which resulted in the program looking badly. And, I think freshmen (being the new guys on the team that they are) pretty much succomb to upperclass pressure when they know their lives can be made a living h*e*l*l if they don't.

Forgive my military analogies (because I do not know my ranks....so I'm going from my memory of watching Gomer Pyle USMC on tv as a kid here! Big Grin). But what would happen if Private First Class (PFC) Gomer had a problem and he bypassed "Sarge" and went directly up to Cpl Boyle with a problem he was having? I'd bet that once good ole "Sarge" found out Gomer went over his head and thereby made him look badly, poor ole Gomer would be out cleaning the latrine floors with his toothbrush! Wink Kind of the same thing here with the guys....try to deal with the issue on your own first (yes, unfortunately that might involve sacrificing the comfort of being in your own apartment or dorm for awhile to remove yourself from the situation, especially if you do not feel comfortable talking to your room mates about the situation); go to upperclass players who are leaders on the team so they can do their job as an upperclass leader; IMO....LAST resort....go to one of the coaches.

Again...I apologize if that is a bad analogy! Wink
Last edited by luvbb
By the way...just thought I would add a personal anecdote here. My daughter is a transfer Freshman at PSU this year too. She's also having a lot of problems with her room mate. For example...came home last Friday night to find out her room mate (who was out partying and couldn't be reached) left a passed out drunk male student (who my daughter really didn't know very well at all), past out in her bed while she went out and partied. Just a note on the "message board" on her dorm room saying "Hey....I left a friend of mine in my bed who was too drunk to walk home." So, my daughter had a strange male student in her room that night (yes, we DID talk about how she SHOULD have handled the situation that particular night! It was a dangerous situation for both my daughter AND the passed out drunk who could easily have been suffering from alcohol poisoning). The end result...the next day she had to let out her inner "b*tch" and lay down the law to her room mate about what was acceptable and not acceptable. Since then, so far so good. She doesn't see much of her room mate anymore...but my daughter DID get custody of the dorm room! Big Grin So, we are dealing with a similar issue ourselves here...just no "team dynamic" that she needs to concern herself with!
Last edited by luvbb
I don't think he can talk to them about it.

Sorry....just one more thing....the reason I suggested removing himself as much as possible from the situation is because the original poster made the above comment in her post. If her son doesn't feel he can talk the issue out with his roommates...then IMO, he has to remove himself first from that bad situation in order to survive the room mate's and not become "guilty by association."
You're entitled to your opinion shortstopmom, but in the real world of college baseball, running straight to the coach with a list of names will make probably make the player's situation worse.

Do you have a son that's played college or pro ball?
Last edited by TxMom
You break the law,..you get turned in.
Gutts, leadership, respect, go hand in hand in my book.

Do you have a son that's played college or pro ball?

And as far as giving advice or opinions,..this is what this board is all about. Its for the taking or the ignoring. Its about choice.
Not sure if having a son play college or professional ball is the ONLY criteria mandating a valued opinion here,...but I'm sure it helps and is most likey valued very high to alot of people.
There are many people on the HSBBW with lots of experience, advice, and opinions. Perhaps some of us get these from personal experiences. Perhaps we have sons/daughters who have crossed these bridges before. Maybe we have coached, or perhaps we are just good ol' Americans with the love of the sport who have life-lessons to pass on to to others, hoping that something in our story or opinion might help someone else.

Do I have sons who have played college or pro ball? Nope...( not yet! ha!)
Do I have an older son who just last year went through the college recruiting process and then, suddenly turned it all down and walked away to join the military? Uh huh.
Do I have personal experience with a sport at the college and pro level. Yes ma'am, strangely enough, I personally do, stemming waaay back from years ago, but I do.
Do I think anyone should listen to my opinions?
Only if they feel it helps them and they choose to.
Any and all are free to ignore, ( and quite frankly I'm sure many do! ha! ) I'm just thinking out loud and throwing it out there into cyber space.

Wouldn't it be awesome though if some little part helped someone with something in their life? Or perhaps put a smile on their face or made them laugh for half a second? Maybe it made them angry, so angry to the point where they re-thought their own thoughts and then came to their own good solution?

LUVBB,..I think all of your above posts were great! I personally got a kick out of your military analogies! They illustrated your point quite clearly in my head! And I applaud your daughter. Sounds like she is doing an awesome job and has her head on straight!!!! That deserves big kudos. I'm taking notes to pass on to my teenage daughter for the future!

Life lessons being learned daily,...me too,..every day!

P.S. Custody of the dorm really is a good thing, isn't it! Big Grin
Last edited by shortstopmom
In a baseball "family," leadership means handling situations within the "family" first...not turning guys in.

It might take awhile for this young freshman to deal with his roommates directly, but that's the only way he will earn respect...and respect is BIG on a baseball team.
Last edited by TxMom
I would hope that Hoovemom15's son might work a switch out himself and get his own situation undercontrol as soon as possible.
In the meantime, whether its Hoovemom's son, the upper classmen, or a parent, the drinking needs to stop and the coach needs to know.

Guess I could have just said the above and not filled up so much posting space. This is the core of the point I was trying to get across. I still stand by it.
Last edited by shortstopmom
I'm sure the coach knows that some of his players are drinking. Sounds like he's already laid down the law and dished out some punishment. If these young men continue to break the rules, they will get caught and suffer consequences both on and off the field.

The question remains, what should their innocent roommate do in the mean time? Staying clear of the situation until he builds the confidence to demand that his roommates take it elsewhere might help. It worked for our sons.

Funny thing is that our guys still have to deal with it every now and then...even in pro ball. Of course, it's much easier now that they're older. The first time is always the hardest.
Last edited by TxMom
Folks, dont forget these guys are young - thier biggest worry 6 months ago was what flower to bring the girl for Prom.......they are growing but still kids in many ways.

SSmom - you mentioned the drinking should not be ignored - you are right - but we cant expect a kid to do more then most college presidents ignore year after year.

Ratting out a teammate is a big time issue....no one in MLB knows anyone who is on the "stuff".

From a big picture view it is true that wrong is wrong and should be reported - but dont put that responsibility on a guy who just left home for the 1st time one month ago.

Sorry again for crashing the ladies lounge.
Its ok to crash in here, as long as you are kind! ( ha!) No meanies allowed. This is the ladies comfort zone.
I actually thought that this topic might make a good general forums post!
I think it would be interesting and beneficial to get both the woman's point of view and the men's since it seems like this is a pretty big topic of concern and is getting alot of views in a very quick time period. I'll ask Hoovmom if she minds if we post it in the General Forums area.

Just one question though catcher 09'
we cant expect a kid to do more then most college presidents ignore year after year.

Why not?
Cant kids set valuable standards on their own?
Last edited by shortstopmom
Wait,.stop..dont answer my last question. Well, please at least dont answer it here.

I was heading off to bed when I had a bout of guilt hit me. I think I have stirred up the pot with this topic and have been perhaps a little too hard core with my responses. Dont get me wrong, I stand by opinions, I just dont feel that this is the appropriate forum to do so in. This is the space where us woman come together and help each other. Debates are for another space. Hoovmom,...I know you are deeply concerned about your son and my intentions were to help, not turn the ladies forum into a hot spot with tit-for-tat disections of each others posts. My apologies.
I hope we can get back on track and tell our stories and suggestions to Hoovmom. She needs us.
I will remain silent and my spouting off on the soapbox has truely been silenced, I promise.

I'm adding soft fluffy pillows to this spot,..with hot tea and biscuits!....(again,..sorry ) & perhaps a new roll of duct tape for my mouth.
Huggzzzzzzzz Frown
Last edited by shortstopmom

I think this forum is where the original poster felt comfortable in asking this question, and I have absolutely no problem at all with us debating it. I feel it has been very interesting. And what is BEST about debating this topic in THIS forum, in my opinion, is the fact that it has been done civilly and politely. Not sure that would hold up in the General Forum Wink.

I think that there are two strains of thought here (both of which we hope for the same outcome.....no dangers for our kids). First, what we wish would happen in a "perfect world"....no underaged drinking, and if there is....they get busted by the person in charge pronto. Secondly, factoring in the nuances of being on a team and how that impacts the actions you take to remedy this situation. This second scenario is dictating the world our boys are living in on campus and the dynamics they need to deal with....and it is all a part of the learning and education they receive along with what they learn in the classroom.
No one is calling you out here because of your parental views about under age drinking and living in uncomfortable situations. There is alot more that goes on at college than our children realize, team or no team. This is most likely where for the first time in our childrens lives they have to deal with many situations on their own. Same goes for all who leave home for the first time. How you learn to deal with it, helps to mold who you are and your values even later on in the workplace, who looks up to you and who doesn't later on in life. No one cares for the rat among the mice. These are things as parents we also learn as our children leave the nest.

The best part of being on a team is that you have older and wiser members to help you to avoid going directly to the head honcho.

There was a situation where one of the team captains thought there was to much partying going on for a group of freshman (it happens everywhere you go). He never bothered to gather the guys together for a sit down and went directly to the coach. Coach not a happy guy. Lots of the guys on the team (not just teh freshman)felt that the captain had not used his position wisely, trying to gain brownie points with the coach as a rat rather than as a mediator, mentor and friend. This unfortunetly caused a lot of hard feelings, lost confidance in the captain and most likely changed team dynamics for that year. Lots of lessons learned from that story, both for the freshman and the team captain.

As a parent I definetly agree with you, as a mom of children living on their own now , my advice has to conform to their way of thinking and learning to deal with life.

You have no reason to apologize.
Last edited by TPM
quote -
"the next day she had to let out her inner "b*tch" and lay down the law"

LOL Luvbb! Glad to hear K. has made her transition into womanhood!! Wink
Last edited by lafmom
LOL Luvbb! Glad to hear K. has made her transition into womanhood!!

Lafmom...it wasn't too deep of a dig to let than inner b*tch out....she not only looks like me......but..... Big Grin Let's just say, it wasn't a "stretch" Wink

As far as "transitioning into womanhood"....I don't think I would phrase it quite that way in to her dad! Wink
As far as "transitioning into womanhood"....I don't think I would phrase it quite that way in to her dad!

Probably not!!! Big Grin
Let me start by saying that I was away for the weekend - helping my mom pack to move and did not have access to a computer - until now. I am overwhelmed by the response I have gotten! Thank you all!!!

Since we only really found out last week that this has been going on I really don't know what all he has done to try and fix the situation. It would seem that the first group that got 'busted' was part of the group that had moved into his apartment for 'party time' along with his roommates. I just know that my son is either at classes, study hall, practice or home in his room. They usually don't get home till after 8 and he's usually gone by 7 or 8 in the morning. So, his time at home is really limited anyway.

As it turns out the night/day before I wrote the original question, he went to the coaches and explained what was going on. They went ahead and did a room check and the guys were caught and warned. I guess for one guy it's his second time and next time he'll be off the team. As I said earlier I don't know what my son had done prior but he - on his own - felt the need to go to the coaches. Whether this was the right move or not (in light of the 'ratting them out' comments) I don't know and only time will tell if he will be ostracized by the team or not. It sounds like there is a lot of partying on the team so I don't know if there was an older guy to go to or not that wouldn't have brushed him off. I just don't know all the details and haven't really had a chance to talk to my son and find out.

Thank you to all for your input - I would have gone ahead and posted this in the general items forum - but wasn't sure how. Thanks again and I will let you know how this all goes down from here - for someone elses future reference.
Hoovmom.....thanks for letting us know what happened. I hope everything works out for your son! Smile
Hoovmom - Glad to hear that your son has shown the maturity to make a decision on how he should handle his situation. Best of luck to him and do let us know how things turn out.
Hoovermom,....I admire your son.

I was and still am, pretty passionate about this subject.

Hope his choices work out good for him.

If I was his coach,..I'd see strong
non-wishy-washy leadership potential in him!!!

Please keep us posted and know we are thinking of him and you!!! I sincerely wish him the best of luck.
Last edited by shortstopmom
Can someone please pass the tissues??? You guys are the greatest!!! and some more!!! Thanks for all your well wishes and prayers and I will definately update you as things transpire.
Last edited by Hoovmom15

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