2019&21 Dad posted:Steve A. have you done enough research to realize that the underweight object actually poses more of an injury risk than the overweight object?
Is it just me or is there a segment of posters here who are unable to absorb the English language before offering a reply.
Please read my last sentence above. " I have not looked at it deep enough to have an opinion." Does this confuse you? Is it unclear in any way?
Steve A. posted:If you threw a football with the same delivery, arm action and intensity as a pitcher your arm would last about 2 starts before you blew it out. The point is: It (the football) is a different object, with a different, less stressful, less max effort, less load delivery. Additionally, it is a different shape & yes, it weighs more.
So, you're saying you can throw the heavy object - just not the way a baseball is traditionally pitched?
Perhaps by throwing the heavy object, the body learns how to perform the throwing motion in a safer manner, and becomes conditioned to do so.
- of course the pitchers could just keep doing the same thing the same way they have always done it.
By the way, the Earth is flat. I've seen the pictures.
Rob T posted:
So, you're saying you can throw the heavy object - just not the way a baseball is traditionally pitched?
By the way, the Earth is flat. I've seen the pictures.
Yes, that's exactly what I am saying! Javelin, shot put, football, temper tantrum etc. etc.
BTW: I want to congratulate myself for a new first: I have now officially been criticized for having "no opinion." Now that I think on it, this may not be a first. "No Oinion Criticism" may have come up in a discussion about curtain colors with Mrs. Steve A.....
Steve A. posted:2019&21 Dad posted:Steve A. have you done enough research to realize that the underweight object actually poses more of an injury risk than the overweight object?
Is it just me or is there a segment of posters here who are unable to absorb the English language before offering a reply.
Please read my last sentence above. " I have not looked at it deep enough to have an opinion." Does this confuse you? Is it unclear in any way?
Absorb this from my post then...
"I agree there is much still to be learned about the subject, but to dismiss it out of hand as inherently dangerous is counterproductive to that learning and growth." My point is more to your overall dismissal of the practice as "junk science" without really having done the research, which you admit you haven't done.
Steve A. posted:Rob T posted:
So, you're saying you can throw the heavy object - just not the way a baseball is traditionally pitched?
By the way, the Earth is flat. I've seen the pictures.
Yes, that's exactly what I am saying! Javelin, shot put, football, temper tantrum etc. etc.
BTW: I want to congratulate myself for a new first: I have now officially been criticized for having "no opinion." Now that I think on it, this may not be a first. "No Oinion Criticism" may have come up in a discussion about curtain colors with Mrs. Steve A.....
The point is you HAVE expressed an opinion without enough knowledge or facts to back it up. That is the problem that limits exploration, learning, and progress. I'm not an expert either, but I have an open mind.
2019&21 Dad posted:Steve A. posted:Rob T posted:
So, you're saying you can throw the heavy object - just not the way a baseball is traditionally pitched?
By the way, the Earth is flat. I've seen the pictures.
Yes, that's exactly what I am saying! Javelin, shot put, football, temper tantrum etc. etc.
BTW: I want to congratulate myself for a new first: I have now officially been criticized for having "no opinion." Now that I think on it, this may not be a first. "No Oinion Criticism" may have come up in a discussion about curtain colors with Mrs. Steve A.....
The point is you HAVE expressed an opinion without enough knowledge or facts to back it up. That is the problem that limits exploration, learning, and progress. I'm not an expert either, but I have an open mind.
You have no idea of the level of research & study I have done on the topic (heavy baseballs, not light!). I don't think any would appreciate my attempt to write a novel on it here. I have laid out sound, well thought out arguments against the use of heavy baseballs. I have also admitted their possible benefit balanced vs the obvious potential dangers. If you took the time to actually read what I have written, you would see for yourself.
I am personally against their use. This does not mean I have it all figured out or am a super guru like some here proclaim. But I do have common sense & first hand experience with several severe injuries I feel strongly are associated with their improper use. The fact of the matter is that "The vast majority of MLB teams have said no." This is a FACT & should give anyone considering their use, particularly with youth players, pause.
My advice is to stay away but if you decide to use them, proceed with extreme caution. I suppose if this places me in the "Flat Earth" group then so be it.
Steve A. posted:2019&21 Dad posted:Steve A. posted:Rob T posted:
So, you're saying you can throw the heavy object - just not the way a baseball is traditionally pitched?
By the way, the Earth is flat. I've seen the pictures.
Yes, that's exactly what I am saying! Javelin, shot put, football, temper tantrum etc. etc.
BTW: I want to congratulate myself for a new first: I have now officially been criticized for having "no opinion." Now that I think on it, this may not be a first. "No Oinion Criticism" may have come up in a discussion about curtain colors with Mrs. Steve A.....
The point is you HAVE expressed an opinion without enough knowledge or facts to back it up. That is the problem that limits exploration, learning, and progress. I'm not an expert either, but I have an open mind.
You have no idea of the level of research & study I have done on the topic (heavy baseballs, not light!). I don't think any would appreciate my attempt to write a novel on it here. I have laid out sound, well thought out arguments against the use of heavy baseballs. I have also admitted their possible benefit balanced vs the obvious potential dangers. If you took the time to actually read what I have written, you would see for yourself.
I am personally against their use. This does not mean I have it all figured out or am a super guru like some here proclaim. But I do have common sense & first hand experience with several severe injuries I feel strongly are associated with their improper use. The fact of the matter is that "The vast majority of MLB teams have said no." This is a FACT & should give anyone considering their use, particularly with youth players, pause.
My advice is to stay away but if you decide to use them, proceed with extreme caution. I suppose if this places me in the "Flat Earth" group then so be it.
I have read enough of what you have written. Good day.
2019&21 Dad
I have read enough of what you have written. Good day.
Thanks for playing. Consolation prize at exit.
Steve A. posted:2019&21 Dad
I have read enough of what you have written. Good day.
Thanks for playing. Consolation prize at exit.
There ya go - true colors.
2019&21 Dad posted:Steve A. posted:2019&21 Dad
I have read enough of what you have written. Good day.
Thanks for playing. Consolation prize at exit.
There ya go - true colors.
I thought you left?
Jeez, I leave for 5 minutes and you guys get all snippy.
I think what I said here is being overlooked:
Perhaps by throwing the heavy object, the body learns how to perform the throwing motion in a safer manner, and becomes conditioned to do so.
Rather than using weighted balls to do no more than "strengthen", they should be used as a tool to train the body to use different mechanics. Going all the way back to Marshall, weighted balls have been used not just to make the arm stronger - but to reinforce mechanical patterns.
Rather than just looking at football or javelin as being different than baseball and therefore having no relevance - perhaps we should be trying to learn what it is about those motions that allows for a heavier object to be thrown with far less incidence of injury.
Wow! I guess I shouldn't have mentioned the "F" word! Football! Sorry!
I agree that many pitching coaches are Advertising with velocity gains of teenage Players who would have gained velocity throwing a coconut. for a lowly trained or Young Person almost any Training will provide gains and kyle will be the first to admit that.
once you reach a certain Level genetics start to Play a huge role.
however even at the highest Level there can be gains. kyle Trains many pro pitchers and a lot of them have gained even if it is only 2-3 mph. also even at the mlb Level until a couple years not a lot of science was used, although that is rapidly changing, many things just were accepted as true.
but I agree there are many Money grabbing programs out there, you often read something like gain 12 mph in 6 weeks or so and of course that is BS.
BTW what is interesting that with the modern Training we have the top velocities in MLB haven't really increased. chapman is a bit of an outlier often hitting over 103 but other than him the top velos are around 100 just like they were in the Prior decades. Nolan ryan threw just as hard as syndergaard or Randy Johnson.
what did Change is the average velocity. there are much less pitchers throwing 88 nowadays and average Velo is really up. the Training does help but there seems to be a border that can't be shifted.
Fun movie if you haven't seen it. Seems to support that top end hasn't changed but average velocity probably has
Go with a proven program and you'll be fine. If you think something does not feel right when performing the activity, stop, think, and adjust (call the program and ask questions).
Light, normal, and heavy is proven to work either in throwing or hitting.
Goblue33 posted:
Fun movie if you haven't seen it. Seems to support that top end hasn't changed but average velocity probably has
I am told by a very reliable source (Former D1 20 year Coach) that what has changed is the gun used to measure velo. "Back in the day," 80's-90's, you had the Jugs & the Ray. The difference between the 2 was that typically, the Jugs would read the velo at a closer proximity to release while the Ray was roughly velo at the plate. The swing was typically 3-4 mph with the Jugs having the higher reading. Now it seems to be the Stalker which I understand tags velo at release & has a higher reading than the Jugs.
This Coach told me he has kept all of the guns they used going back to the 80's & the readings today with the Stalker are definitely "inflated" compared to the prior tools used to get readings.
Hey what was that round black thing MLB flamethrower Aroldis Chapman was throwing in the bullpen in game 6 of NLCS tonight?? I thought MLB didn't use weighted balls. Crazy huh?
