Moc1:
Great post.
Moc,
Not sure if anyone said coaches don't have their own set of rules (that usually coincide with their school rules) regarding drinking, drugs, etc. And I agree, coaches are not there to babysit just as your son's professors are not there to babysit either. Certain behavior as a student athlete, a representative of the schools atheletic department, is EXPECTED or you wouldn't be there. But kids are kids and things happen. Our boys are very lucky in the sense that they DO have coaches that can speak to them about expectations, and set parameters, most college students do not.
Just not sure that most coaches would cut the strings if caught drinking or using tobacco during the season.
JMO.
JMO
Not sure if anyone said coaches don't have their own set of rules (that usually coincide with their school rules) regarding drinking, drugs, etc. And I agree, coaches are not there to babysit just as your son's professors are not there to babysit either. Certain behavior as a student athlete, a representative of the schools atheletic department, is EXPECTED or you wouldn't be there. But kids are kids and things happen. Our boys are very lucky in the sense that they DO have coaches that can speak to them about expectations, and set parameters, most college students do not.
Just not sure that most coaches would cut the strings if caught drinking or using tobacco during the season.
JMO.
JMO
TPM-NOT sure where you and Bee came up with this notion of "babysitting" by college coaches. Certainly not from me. Never said it and never implied it. Did you call it babysitting when you were raising your son through high school? Did you have no rules and regulations during those years? I have yet to bring up my kids in this thread but since you have decided to-"your son's professors are not there to babysit either"--please tell us how many of YOUR son's professors sat in your living room and offered your son a scholarship? offered to get him to the next level? offered to help him improve
his math skills? offered to get him some place to study during the summer(Cape Cod League). Took him to Omaha-all expenses paid, just so he could experience the thrill of the Calculus World Series. Apples and oranges. My kids' professors couldn't care less how they perform in the classroom but the coaches certainly have a vested interest.
Their livleyhood depends on it. Professors get paid regardless of their "won/loss record"-they do not recruit students.
Look, you and Bee have done a wonderful job raising your sons and so have a lot of other
websters but to believe every player has had the same upbringing and is on the same wavelength as yours is just not the case. Lots of coaches understand this and therefore implement rules for all to follow and hopefully disipline fairly and evenly. Maybe some
coaches do not feel the need and as I stated before-fine. I disagree, and it's a matter
of opinion.
BTW-wouldn't "supervise" be a better word than "babysit". Just my opinion.
his math skills? offered to get him some place to study during the summer(Cape Cod League). Took him to Omaha-all expenses paid, just so he could experience the thrill of the Calculus World Series. Apples and oranges. My kids' professors couldn't care less how they perform in the classroom but the coaches certainly have a vested interest.
Their livleyhood depends on it. Professors get paid regardless of their "won/loss record"-they do not recruit students.Look, you and Bee have done a wonderful job raising your sons and so have a lot of other
websters but to believe every player has had the same upbringing and is on the same wavelength as yours is just not the case. Lots of coaches understand this and therefore implement rules for all to follow and hopefully disipline fairly and evenly. Maybe some
coaches do not feel the need and as I stated before-fine. I disagree, and it's a matter
of opinion.
BTW-wouldn't "supervise" be a better word than "babysit". Just my opinion.
I think that basically we all agree upon the same thing. Rules do need to be in place. We teach our kids to do the right thing, make the right choices. Kids are kids, they mess up sometimes, but smart college coaches and (as with smart parents) know that and set rules accordingly. I am not sure my son would be in the place where he is if it wasn't for stern caring coaches who have dealt with hundrds of 17-23 year old males who treat their players with respect as well as age appropriate and demand that in return.
I only object to Coach2709's approach, (which is how we got to this point in case you missed it), he believes that players caught drinking or with tobacco during season should be punished harshly, go back and read his posts.
I don't care where one goes to school, that is not what college coaches, in general do (again this is how and why we got to this point in discussion).
I only object to Coach2709's approach, (which is how we got to this point in case you missed it), he believes that players caught drinking or with tobacco during season should be punished harshly, go back and read his posts.
I don't care where one goes to school, that is not what college coaches, in general do (again this is how and why we got to this point in discussion).
Haven't been near a computer the last couple of days but just got caught up on the latest.
First let me say in previous posts that I was wrong in some of my information and owe Bee a very small apology for calling him an idiot because I did post where I was possibly being employed. Granted it was like two weeks (not sure of the time so if it's wrong I apologize) and in another forum. So I am glad Bee that you do happen to remember pretty much everything I post or have the time to research everything said in here.
TPM - I can appreciate your opposition on my stance and I will let you know (and Moc1) that when/if I am in a position to run my own program I will check with other coaches to see what they do for this stuff. You have got me to be more open minded.
Moc1 I know you weren't out to "rescue" me but I believe you did a great job of presenting some of my argument better than I did. I thought you did a very good job of bringing up how Bee changes everything to suit his argument. There were several things he tried to "quote" that I said that was completely off base. I am glad you were able to call him out on that. Prime example is when TPM said she objected to my stance on alcohol and tobacco. I NEVER mentioned tobacco in any shape form or fashion (unless I mentioned it in passing 5 years ago in the hitting forum when I might have said a dip can in your back pocket will help you get better balance - Bee I am sure you can help by remembering or looking that up) but he brought it up later and that is where you got that TPM.
Anyway - MOST of the posters here have only dealt with a small number of schools so the exposure to how other teams do things is very limited. It's one of those things that you are probably not going to convince one side to the other side's thinking. To each their own.
First let me say in previous posts that I was wrong in some of my information and owe Bee a very small apology for calling him an idiot because I did post where I was possibly being employed. Granted it was like two weeks (not sure of the time so if it's wrong I apologize) and in another forum. So I am glad Bee that you do happen to remember pretty much everything I post or have the time to research everything said in here.
TPM - I can appreciate your opposition on my stance and I will let you know (and Moc1) that when/if I am in a position to run my own program I will check with other coaches to see what they do for this stuff. You have got me to be more open minded.
Moc1 I know you weren't out to "rescue" me but I believe you did a great job of presenting some of my argument better than I did. I thought you did a very good job of bringing up how Bee changes everything to suit his argument. There were several things he tried to "quote" that I said that was completely off base. I am glad you were able to call him out on that. Prime example is when TPM said she objected to my stance on alcohol and tobacco. I NEVER mentioned tobacco in any shape form or fashion (unless I mentioned it in passing 5 years ago in the hitting forum when I might have said a dip can in your back pocket will help you get better balance - Bee I am sure you can help by remembering or looking that up) but he brought it up later and that is where you got that TPM.
Anyway - MOST of the posters here have only dealt with a small number of schools so the exposure to how other teams do things is very limited. It's one of those things that you are probably not going to convince one side to the other side's thinking. To each their own.
Coach2709,
I may be missing something but you made some statements regarding what went down at the school you might be employed at followed by your harsh views of players drinking during season. I was especially concerned with your view of players over 21.
As I told Moc1, this is what brought us to post our views. Your prior views seemed to forget that players are kids and kids mess up. Your stance was, my way or the highway. We were trying to make a point that it isn't always like that, schools have rules for the general population and most college coaches abide by those rules with some of their own and before you make up your mind HOW it should be you needed to be a bit more open minded. I may be mssing something, did you change anything along the way?
I NEVER stated that drinking during the season was ok or should be allowed. I just stated that before you make rules that kids can't keep, you understand truely what a coaches role is and how most handle situations when they arise. They usually don't kick the kids off of the team.
Maybe that is why Moc got confused, you did change some things didn't you?
I am not sure how all schools handle things, but I do know one thing, we are parents of players, former players, current players, big schools, little schools, public and private schools. We have learned alot from them.
You might learn more from parents on this site more than you can imagine.
I may be missing something but you made some statements regarding what went down at the school you might be employed at followed by your harsh views of players drinking during season. I was especially concerned with your view of players over 21.
As I told Moc1, this is what brought us to post our views. Your prior views seemed to forget that players are kids and kids mess up. Your stance was, my way or the highway. We were trying to make a point that it isn't always like that, schools have rules for the general population and most college coaches abide by those rules with some of their own and before you make up your mind HOW it should be you needed to be a bit more open minded. I may be mssing something, did you change anything along the way?I NEVER stated that drinking during the season was ok or should be allowed. I just stated that before you make rules that kids can't keep, you understand truely what a coaches role is and how most handle situations when they arise. They usually don't kick the kids off of the team.
Maybe that is why Moc got confused, you did change some things didn't you?
I am not sure how all schools handle things, but I do know one thing, we are parents of players, former players, current players, big schools, little schools, public and private schools. We have learned alot from them.
You might learn more from parents on this site more than you can imagine.
lol, as you pointed out I added "silly" & fixed typos ... added nifong as it came across the news crawl - no conspiracy therequote:by moc1: BEE, I find it amusing that you've gone back and changed virtually every one of your posts
gee, maybe you saw what ya wanted to see
my stance has been -
"a college coach has no business meddling in the off-campus legal activities of his players" - and I clearly said our coaches implimented university rules & policies
you've once again mis-quoted me and changed the discussion, which for the lst 3 pages has been coach managing off-campus legal activitiesquote:by moc: To me it's rather naive on your part to believe that once a player leaves home he is "ready" to take on the world and needs no limits imposed on him by a college coach
it would seem to implied by endorsing a coach's 24-7 off-campus lifestyle management of his 21+ yr old players.quote:by moc: NOT sure where you and Bee came up with this notion of "babysitting" by college coaches. Certainly not from me. Never said it and never implied it
a classic red herring?? (def: a distractor that draws attention away from the real issue)quote:by moc: please tell us how many of YOUR son's professors sat in your living room and offered your son a scholarship? offered to get him to the next level? offered to help him improve
anyway, they did it by proxy, ie: the head of the department did it in her office
added 07:13 GMT
bummer ... students who are essentially their customers, are being cheatedquote:by moc: My kids' professors couldn't care less how they perform in the classroom
tobacco was likely mentioned because it's site use is banned by ncaa
I believe FSU's Martin's policy is to confiscate it and stow it safely in his cheek
happy father's day to all
ps- I reserve the right to correct
I have a feeling there's enough information on this thread for most of the readers to get something out of this and decide for themselves now what kind of program they would hope for their sons to be a part of. One size does not fit all-and there are ALL sizes out there. Don't believe everything you read.
I have been told that it's the captain or whomever the coaching staff appoints that day (day of the official visit) to take out this recruit and "make sure he's taken care of" wink, wink, nod, nod. So don't blame the captain or other players whose job it is to "get it done", that is, get that darn recruit to like us and give him a good time while here. They usually feel out the player first to see what his "makeup" is and then they'll decide whether or not to introduce alcohol. If alcohol is introduced, there is a "hush-hush" that surrounds the activities. It's an unwritten rule but let's face it this goes on everywhere especially in D1 hard-core baseball institutions.
New to the thread, but have to comment.
I know that my son had to sign a "Prospective Student Athlete declaration" which was an A-M bulletted declaration encompasing a wide range of declarations that "I did not do this, my family was not give this, I was not entertained outside a 30 mile range of the campus.....etc."
There were 3 other lines pertinent to this thread
"I have not participated in.....
*Consumption of alcohol and/or illegal drugs
*Adult entertainment (including entertainment clubs and hiring of escort/exotic dancers
*Entered drinking establishments if you or the prospect are under the age of 21.
Each prospect was required to sign and date this.
We as parents of a D-1 player in California, expect that when we tour a campus, meet coaches and team memebers that they are in compliance with the NCAA D-l recruiting rules and regulations. These coaches are to be the next guiding influence for our son over the next 3-4 years. I am interested in the role they will play, and yes they play a signifigant role. We actually chose the school we did, not because of the size/publicity of the program, but whom we were sending our son to be educated in the classroom and on the field. Too many people are hung up on the status...Find the place that your son will succeed and be developed not only as a player, but as a person. Our son was academically able to go just about anywhere - grades and test scores - ultimately he chose a school that was not as high profile, but where he felt everything fit. This is all such a personal decision, my advice, do not get caught up in the hype - take the time to find the best place for your player academically and athletically. It does no good for a player to a big program and sit, ball players need to play. With the new transfer rules in place this becomes even more important - find the best fit...just my two cents.
I know that my son had to sign a "Prospective Student Athlete declaration" which was an A-M bulletted declaration encompasing a wide range of declarations that "I did not do this, my family was not give this, I was not entertained outside a 30 mile range of the campus.....etc."
There were 3 other lines pertinent to this thread
"I have not participated in.....
*Consumption of alcohol and/or illegal drugs
*Adult entertainment (including entertainment clubs and hiring of escort/exotic dancers
*Entered drinking establishments if you or the prospect are under the age of 21.
Each prospect was required to sign and date this.
We as parents of a D-1 player in California, expect that when we tour a campus, meet coaches and team memebers that they are in compliance with the NCAA D-l recruiting rules and regulations. These coaches are to be the next guiding influence for our son over the next 3-4 years. I am interested in the role they will play, and yes they play a signifigant role. We actually chose the school we did, not because of the size/publicity of the program, but whom we were sending our son to be educated in the classroom and on the field. Too many people are hung up on the status...Find the place that your son will succeed and be developed not only as a player, but as a person. Our son was academically able to go just about anywhere - grades and test scores - ultimately he chose a school that was not as high profile, but where he felt everything fit. This is all such a personal decision, my advice, do not get caught up in the hype - take the time to find the best place for your player academically and athletically. It does no good for a player to a big program and sit, ball players need to play. With the new transfer rules in place this becomes even more important - find the best fit...just my two cents.
iheartbb ...
First off ... welcome aboard.
Secondly ... I like what you stated, how you stated it, and the sincerity behind it. I agree 100% ... (now doesn't that just make your day?) It feels like your son did much the same as ours and it was a wonderful experience in every way. Thanks for sharing.
First off ... welcome aboard.
Secondly ... I like what you stated, how you stated it, and the sincerity behind it. I agree 100% ... (now doesn't that just make your day?) It feels like your son did much the same as ours and it was a wonderful experience in every way. Thanks for sharing.
My son had a similar situation on a visit. He turned down the offer of a party. Turned out to be a good one because it was a "test" by the coaching staff. Just something to think about.
= Edited by moderator. John, since this is a Golden Thread, we'd like to stick with the helpful and informative posts. Thanks =
quote:Turned out to be a good one because it was a "test" by the coaching staff. Just something to think about.
If the coacung staff was using his own players to "test" the recruit, then that coach should be fired for incompetance. Suppose a player was just trying to fit in and break the ice to get familiar with potential new teammates and wasn't an irresponsible drinker or a crazy party animal to start with. Sure the easy and safe way is to say no and all but to try and lure a recruit into a trap is lame, and only a spineless sneaky coach would pull this kind of nonsense.
wow...good stuff as we begin our road into recuriting...the character of a person, especially a young man on the path to play college baseball or anything else for that matter, doesn't imply the person made a decision to go along...agree with Zombywoof 100%!!!
Luring a recruit into a trap means you had serious doubts about that recruit to begin with, good coaches don't do that, good coaches don't even ask those questions, what they want to know is if the team felt if he did or didn't fit in. Now I am not saying that a recruit passing out from going overboard will look good in anyone's eyes, it is more about how you can handle yourself with the temptations of college, and coaches know that can be a challenge in itself.
If passing up alcohol was the deal breaker, I doubt mine would have gone where he did.
If passing up alcohol was the deal breaker, I doubt mine would have gone where he did.
I wouldn't say it's that uncommon. Players want to show them a good time and what the college life is like, so obviously drinking will be involved a lot of the time. From my experience there is no pressure put on the recruits to drink but they will be around it and more than welcome to drink if they wanted
It's not always a case of drinking to show the recruit a good time -- it could very well have been what the older players would have done anyway as part of their routine.
I'm not sure about other high schools but I know a large protion of the kids at our school have gone out to parties and they weren't drinking juice boxes. No it's not right for it to be happening on visits but do you want the school to be lying to you? or would you rather have them show you how it's going to be?
I went on 3 official visits and drank on all 3 of them. I thought it would help me fit in with the guys and didn't think it was a big deal but there were recruits who came once I was at school that didn't drink and it was not a big deal.
I just wrote a book on my college baseball experience called "Going with the Pitch: Adjusting to Baseball, School and Life as a Division I College Athlete" that discusses recruiting trips. It was never said by a coach, but it was just assumed that we were going to show our recruit a "good time". We considered it a successful night if the recruit showed up to his meeting the next morning with the coaches still drunk! (One guy actually signed the next morning after his visit, so I assume we showed him a good time).
Again, there were guys who didn't want to drink, but for those who did we had an incentive to show them a good time... aka we wanted the best players to come to our program.
[B]You can read all about my story in the book if you are interested. Please visit www.GoingwiththePitch.com
I just wrote a book on my college baseball experience called "Going with the Pitch: Adjusting to Baseball, School and Life as a Division I College Athlete" that discusses recruiting trips. It was never said by a coach, but it was just assumed that we were going to show our recruit a "good time". We considered it a successful night if the recruit showed up to his meeting the next morning with the coaches still drunk! (One guy actually signed the next morning after his visit, so I assume we showed him a good time).
Again, there were guys who didn't want to drink, but for those who did we had an incentive to show them a good time... aka we wanted the best players to come to our program.
[B]You can read all about my story in the book if you are interested. Please visit www.GoingwiththePitch.com
quote:Originally posted by GoingwiththePitch:
I went on 3 official visits and drank on all 3 of them. I thought it would help me fit in with the guys and didn't think it was a big deal but there were recruits who came once I was at school that didn't drink and it was not a big deal.
I just wrote a book on my college baseball experience called "Going with the Pitch: Adjusting to Baseball, School and Life as a Division I College Athlete" that discusses recruiting trips. It was never said by a coach, but it was just assumed that we were going to show our recruit a "good time". We considered it a successful night if the recruit showed up to his meeting the next morning with the coaches still drunk! (One guy actually signed the next morning after his visit, so I assume we showed him a good time).
Again, there were guys who didn't want to drink, but for those who did we had an incentive to show them a good time... aka we wanted the best players to come to our program.
[B]You can read all about my story in the book if you are interested. Please visit www.GoingwiththePitch.com
After reading this post I am at a complete loss of words.
Taking a young 17 or 18yr old kid out drinking (or staying in) is probably the biggest BONEHEAD and inmature things I have ever heard when it comes to the realm of recruiting visits. And to hear a coach condoned it? That's laughable.
What a joke this program, coach, and upper classmen must have been.
Maybe I'm not at a loss of words afterall.
Goingwiththepitch,
The above sounds pretty much what could happen on an official visit.
Congrats and good luck with the book.
The above sounds pretty much what could happen on an official visit.
Congrats and good luck with the book.
going with the pitchyou are totally off base
I am going to go with someone whose been there and lived it.
No doubt coaches tell their players, they really want this guy, make sure he has a good time, and most of all, let us know if he fits in. They don't tell the players to get the recruit drunk.
Times have changed, many players have already committed before the official visit, but don't think for one moment that NO drinking takes place on official visits, or when your player heads off to college. These are all temptations for every college student, baseball players are no different, it's just a matter of growing up and maturing.
This is something no one really talks about, but reality is, my son had a real great time when he went to school and that included much of what we all did when we went off to school for the first time.
Your sons do (did) to, they just don't tell you about it.
No doubt coaches tell their players, they really want this guy, make sure he has a good time, and most of all, let us know if he fits in. They don't tell the players to get the recruit drunk.
Times have changed, many players have already committed before the official visit, but don't think for one moment that NO drinking takes place on official visits, or when your player heads off to college. These are all temptations for every college student, baseball players are no different, it's just a matter of growing up and maturing.
This is something no one really talks about, but reality is, my son had a real great time when he went to school and that included much of what we all did when we went off to school for the first time.
Your sons do (did) to, they just don't tell you about it.
let it be known that I know this young mans coach----nuff said
I am in NO way saying that stuff like this doesn't happen on recruiting visits.
But for a young man/ex-player comes onto a public forum like this and practically boasts about it like he did is just wrong on all levels.
It appears that one of those "levels" is exactly what I was also thinking and TR has apparently exposed it.
Not to mention if any parents research this kid and find out what program/coach he played for in college.
Who's to say if some official from this particular University also finds out about this type of childish and irresponsible behavior?
Again, there were guys who didn't want to drink, but for those who did we had an incentive to show them a good time... aka we wanted the best players to come to our program.
This statement absolutely baffles me. Did they really want the best players to come or more partyer's who were already irresponsible at a young age? Had an incentive? Really?
But for a young man/ex-player comes onto a public forum like this and practically boasts about it like he did is just wrong on all levels.
It appears that one of those "levels" is exactly what I was also thinking and TR has apparently exposed it.
Not to mention if any parents research this kid and find out what program/coach he played for in college.
Who's to say if some official from this particular University also finds out about this type of childish and irresponsible behavior?
Again, there were guys who didn't want to drink, but for those who did we had an incentive to show them a good time... aka we wanted the best players to come to our program.
This statement absolutely baffles me. Did they really want the best players to come or more partyer's who were already irresponsible at a young age? Had an incentive? Really?
YGD,
I am not disagreeing with you, but reality is that is what takes place often on OVs, he's giving you an honest up front birds eyed view of what goes on, and IMO, parents need to know this happens. Has nothing to do with the coach being "bad".
The bottom line is that the coach and the players want the best guy to come, and they are going to make sure that they show him a really great time, whatever that may be.
Players that are assigned to be with recruits on weekends, report back to the coach on how they feel, because for many coaches, this is a big part of the chemistry process. They tell the coach only what the coach needs to know, the coach doesn't need TMI.
If anyone thinks this doesn't exist, you should read into what goes on for football recruiting.
To each his own, we all see things differently.
BTW, his book tells you were he went to school, he's not hiding anything.
I am not disagreeing with you, but reality is that is what takes place often on OVs, he's giving you an honest up front birds eyed view of what goes on, and IMO, parents need to know this happens. Has nothing to do with the coach being "bad".
The bottom line is that the coach and the players want the best guy to come, and they are going to make sure that they show him a really great time, whatever that may be.
Players that are assigned to be with recruits on weekends, report back to the coach on how they feel, because for many coaches, this is a big part of the chemistry process. They tell the coach only what the coach needs to know, the coach doesn't need TMI.
If anyone thinks this doesn't exist, you should read into what goes on for football recruiting.
To each his own, we all see things differently.
BTW, his book tells you were he went to school, he's not hiding anything.
Most of us realize this stuff goes on. It is at the very least, information the OV recruit can use to make a decision if this is a place he wants to spend 4 years.
In my son's case, he was taken to a party 5-10 minutes after the head coach told his (host) players in his office not to take the recruits to any parties and there will be be no drinking whatsoever. So, of course they go to an off campus party. The town cops come, and make many arrests. My son left the party a couple minutes before the cops came because as a 17 year old he had the common sense to leave on his own.
My son had zero respect for the (host) players because they put him in harms way, and he realized this college was not the place for him. Lesson learned.
In my son's case, he was taken to a party 5-10 minutes after the head coach told his (host) players in his office not to take the recruits to any parties and there will be be no drinking whatsoever. So, of course they go to an off campus party. The town cops come, and make many arrests. My son left the party a couple minutes before the cops came because as a 17 year old he had the common sense to leave on his own.
My son had zero respect for the (host) players because they put him in harms way, and he realized this college was not the place for him. Lesson learned.
quote:Originally posted by fenwaysouth:
It is at the very least, information the OV recruit can use to make a decision if this is a place he wants to spend 4 years.
Exactly.
My son went on an OV and he was purposely exposed to the saturday night social scene, he decided that it was a place that one could find yourself in lots of trouble and chose to attend elsewhere. I found out later that with a student body of 42K, it's sometimes easy to forget about why you are there.
I am not surprised by this at all. During my recruiting process I went on a few official visits and was exposed to alcohol on all of them. The fact is that many collegiate student athletes party, and some party a lot. Most host players avail the prospective athlete the opportunity to enjoy whatever aspect of college life they would like.
As an underaged college student, obtaining alcohol and finding a place to drink it is very, very easy. It takes a lot of maturity to make the appropriate decision as to whether or not you should partake in activities such as these.
I am not saying that it is right or that I condone it, but it does happen. Socializing involving alcohol and other things is a major aspect of college life and a lot of kids taking official visits are interested in trying these things.
I am now 21 years old and can legally consume alcohol. Because I live off campus I don't host recruits because my coach prefers them to stay on campus. I will never encourage a recruit to come out and drink with my teammates and me on the weekend of their visit. However, if a situation were to arise that we were in the same location and he was drinking, you'd be hard pressed to find a college baseball player that would stop him. It's just the way things work.
As an underaged college student, obtaining alcohol and finding a place to drink it is very, very easy. It takes a lot of maturity to make the appropriate decision as to whether or not you should partake in activities such as these.
I am not saying that it is right or that I condone it, but it does happen. Socializing involving alcohol and other things is a major aspect of college life and a lot of kids taking official visits are interested in trying these things.
I am now 21 years old and can legally consume alcohol. Because I live off campus I don't host recruits because my coach prefers them to stay on campus. I will never encourage a recruit to come out and drink with my teammates and me on the weekend of their visit. However, if a situation were to arise that we were in the same location and he was drinking, you'd be hard pressed to find a college baseball player that would stop him. It's just the way things work.
jh--my point is that the poster implies that the coach APPROVES OF IT
A coach is not going to say "make sure he has alcohol available." But I don't think coaches are stupid. I'm sure they are aware that if the player is staying for an overnight, there will be some form of socializing going on. And regardless of how strict the program's rules are, as I said, consuming alcohol is extremely easy at college.
My college coach has expressed that he doesn't like having overnights unless the player lives more than 4 hours away. If a player and his family are capable of making a day trip out of a recruiting trip then that's what he would prefer. If a player that he is recruiting requests an overnight and lives fairly close to the school then he tends to think that the player is more interested in experiencing the social aspect of the school than just focusing on the athletic and academic portions that can be seen in a day.
My college coach has expressed that he doesn't like having overnights unless the player lives more than 4 hours away. If a player and his family are capable of making a day trip out of a recruiting trip then that's what he would prefer. If a player that he is recruiting requests an overnight and lives fairly close to the school then he tends to think that the player is more interested in experiencing the social aspect of the school than just focusing on the athletic and academic portions that can be seen in a day.
Give the young posters a break. I was a basketball recruit going on visits to upstate NY schools 28 years ago and experienced the EXACT same thing. Meet the coach, tour the campus, get hooked up with a player, and party that night. It was an introduction to college life. My parents never went away to school, so I had to make these discoveries on my own. Good or bad, that was the way it was - and seems to still be. If my 2014 son is good enough to get recruited, he will have the benefit of my knowlege having been there and done that. However, even the best kids may not be capable of perfect decisions when they are 17.
Anyone who drinks underage on a visit is an idiot !
quote:Anyone who drinks underage on a visit is an idiot !
There
are a lot of idiots out there then.
Yes there are !
All we can do is make sure ours isn't one of them !
All we can do is make sure ours isn't one of them !
And the only way to do that is to go with them and make them stay in your hotel room.
Not really. I know my son who was legal drinking age here and knew he was not into drinking and peer pressure !
A coach is legally responsible for recruits on a visit . If they get in trouble, he is in bigger trouble !
A coach is legally responsible for recruits on a visit . If they get in trouble, he is in bigger trouble !
One thing I've learned as a parent is not to say, or think, "my kid would never do that."
quote:Originally posted by BobbleheadDoll:
Not really. I know my son who was legal drinking age here and knew he was not into drinking and peer pressure !
A coach is legally responsible for recruits on a visit . If they get in trouble, he is in bigger trouble !
When visiting a Div 1 school (plus assuming other NCAA divisions) before the OV, the player has to sign a statment regarding rules, one of which being that no alcohol will be consumed (on campus) and then signed by the parent. I don't remember the exact letter, anyone?
It then takes the coach off the hook.
I am with HVbaseballDAD, give the kids a break.
BHD, you are so very lucky that your son is obviously so perfect.
I don't get the purpose of coming here and calling players out. No one is agreeing it is right, rather that this does happen.
However, I also agree with Antzdad, never say never.
I have 4 adult kids and none have ever drank before it was legal. TPM you can sign all the papers you like but if the coach is aware of the illegal consumption of alcohol or should have been aware , the paper means nothing !
Being perfect is not a prerequisite to obeying the law !
Being perfect is not a prerequisite to obeying the law !
Hello,
First off I apoligize if I made it seem like drinking is not a big deal or should not have a serious conversation regarding it. I was simply trying to make a point that it was very very common that alcohol was around durig weekend offical visits. PLEASE NOTE HOWEVER THAT MY COACH NEVER SAID IT WAS OK FOR ALCOHOL TO BE AROUND. HE SIMPLY DID NOT KNOW WHAT WAS GOING ON, or at least he didn't want to know.
The thing is I played with so many guys, including summer leagues, that when I made this comment I didn't think it was a big deal. We ALL had the same story of our visits because well thats what happens on 90% of weekend OV's. As I said in my previous post however, there were many kids who didn't want to drink and so they didn't, it was no big deal.
One reason I did write the book though is I felt like people have/had this idea of college baseball in UtopiaLand and I found that to not always be the case. I know for a fact it was not just my school for example when players came to games hung over (Not that it was very smart to do or occured very often) or that players had to deal with the politics of a coach leaving the program.
I think if people read the book, they can at the very least begin to understand what I consider a very real account of a normal life for a student-athlete. With so much reaction from this book already I can't help but think that some sections of it where I talk about the "dark side" of college baseball is real, yet has become frowned upon for bringing up.
More information for the book is available at www.GoingwiththePitch.com
Again, I do apoligize if I made it seem like this issue of alcohol is not a serious one. I understand it is. I also understand however, the prevlance of it in college baseball.
Thank you for your time
First off I apoligize if I made it seem like drinking is not a big deal or should not have a serious conversation regarding it. I was simply trying to make a point that it was very very common that alcohol was around durig weekend offical visits. PLEASE NOTE HOWEVER THAT MY COACH NEVER SAID IT WAS OK FOR ALCOHOL TO BE AROUND. HE SIMPLY DID NOT KNOW WHAT WAS GOING ON, or at least he didn't want to know.
The thing is I played with so many guys, including summer leagues, that when I made this comment I didn't think it was a big deal. We ALL had the same story of our visits because well thats what happens on 90% of weekend OV's. As I said in my previous post however, there were many kids who didn't want to drink and so they didn't, it was no big deal.
One reason I did write the book though is I felt like people have/had this idea of college baseball in UtopiaLand and I found that to not always be the case. I know for a fact it was not just my school for example when players came to games hung over (Not that it was very smart to do or occured very often) or that players had to deal with the politics of a coach leaving the program.
I think if people read the book, they can at the very least begin to understand what I consider a very real account of a normal life for a student-athlete. With so much reaction from this book already I can't help but think that some sections of it where I talk about the "dark side" of college baseball is real, yet has become frowned upon for bringing up.
More information for the book is available at www.GoingwiththePitch.com
Again, I do apoligize if I made it seem like this issue of alcohol is not a serious one. I understand it is. I also understand however, the prevlance of it in college baseball.
Thank you for your time
I finished your book. Thanks for sharing your story.
Goingwiththepitch,
No need to apologize, I think that most of us understood where you are coming from.
There is a dark side to college life, as well as baseball or any sports. Most people don't want to bring it up, it's like why should I worry my son would never do that.
There are a few people here who just need to come in and add really nothing that means much to most topics. If your son never did it or considered it, why bother with response.
And I am sure that you will admit that most parents have NO CLUE what goes on when their sons/daughters are miles and miles from home.
No need to apologize, I think that most of us understood where you are coming from.
There is a dark side to college life, as well as baseball or any sports. Most people don't want to bring it up, it's like why should I worry my son would never do that.
There are a few people here who just need to come in and add really nothing that means much to most topics. If your son never did it or considered it, why bother with response.
And I am sure that you will admit that most parents have NO CLUE what goes on when their sons/daughters are miles and miles from home.
I know that my son would not drink underage and his wife didn't either !
I am very realistic and have lived the college life at undergrad and post grad. Post grad in London UK.
I don't see drinking as a bad thing at all. Breaking the law is especially when a coach is paying money to have you there. Why would anyone jeopardize his chance to play college ball by drinking ? To me that is idiotic. All 4 of my kids drink now and they are all legal age. They don't drink and drive. They know how fast your life and someone elses can change in a blink of an eye !
In my son's job he knows socializing is important. That includes moderate drinking. When we had our kids my wife and I stopped drinking. We spent much of our lives dancing at bars. Me I lived in Pubs while at Law school. Pub lunches and great times. Alcohol is not a deamon to most but I know several that it was.
My son's school as most have a zero tolerance to underage drinking. He obeyed those rules and the law !
I am very realistic and have lived the college life at undergrad and post grad. Post grad in London UK.
I don't see drinking as a bad thing at all. Breaking the law is especially when a coach is paying money to have you there. Why would anyone jeopardize his chance to play college ball by drinking ? To me that is idiotic. All 4 of my kids drink now and they are all legal age. They don't drink and drive. They know how fast your life and someone elses can change in a blink of an eye !
In my son's job he knows socializing is important. That includes moderate drinking. When we had our kids my wife and I stopped drinking. We spent much of our lives dancing at bars. Me I lived in Pubs while at Law school. Pub lunches and great times. Alcohol is not a deamon to most but I know several that it was.
My son's school as most have a zero tolerance to underage drinking. He obeyed those rules and the law !
TPM
So true, so true. Their is a dark side to college and I do agree most parents do not have a clue. Not a clue.
Our daughter came home one day to me and confessed all the stuff she had done in college and do apologize. I was floored. I had no idea.
I appreciated her honesty and loved on her like any mom would do.
So true, so true. Their is a dark side to college and I do agree most parents do not have a clue. Not a clue.
Our daughter came home one day to me and confessed all the stuff she had done in college and do apologize. I was floored. I had no idea.
I appreciated her honesty and loved on her like any mom would do.
Dark Side ?
I was rushed by every frat in my college ! I saw things that would make your Dark Side look like sunshine ! Your daughter would be wise not to do or confess what I saw !
If you are naive maybe it is because you havn.t seen what I have !
I was rushed by every frat in my college ! I saw things that would make your Dark Side look like sunshine ! Your daughter would be wise not to do or confess what I saw !
If you are naive maybe it is because you havn.t seen what I have !
BHD- What does your wife's dancing background and your son's work-related social networking have anything to do with alcohol consumption on official visits? Who asked you to chime in and compare baseball_fever's daughter's college experience to your own, patronizing her post? Please keep the discussion about the topic at hand, not gloating about your personal life accomplishments like you have done so many times in the past on these boards.
Well, somebody's kids are doing these things. I'm glad none is ours (hsbbweb).
Actually JH if you look at my original comment it is my opinion that underage drinkers are idiots .
TPM as usual attacks me as being naive with her snide comments so that is why I explained my experience .
Yes I drank when it was legal so I would say I am from naive ! Not that you care !
I find it ludicrous that anyone would suggest that someone else is naive !
TPM as usual attacks me as being naive with her snide comments so that is why I explained my experience .
Yes I drank when it was legal so I would say I am from naive ! Not that you care !
I find it ludicrous that anyone would suggest that someone else is naive !
quote:Originally posted by BobbleheadDoll:
Actually JH if you look at my original comment it is my opinion that underage drinkers are idiots .
TPM as usual attacks me as being naive with her snide comments so that is why I explained my experience .
Yes I drank when it was legal so I would say I am far from naive ! Not that you care !
I find it ludicrous that anyone would suggest that someone else is naive !
BHD- The fact that your kids didn't drink when they were underaged has nothing to do with the topic at hand, the fact that drinking does occur...very often...on official visits. The fact that you come onto the boards and preach that your kids didn't drink and therefore every single other kid that does is an idiot and every single other parent is naive is downright rude, obnoxious and wrong. Your life experience isn't a rule of thumb for the general public, it is merely the experience of a few people. Do you honestly expect people to actually respect a person like you? "This is how my family does it and everyone else is stupid and not as good as us." Maybe that's not what you were trying to say, but that's definitely how it sounded.
I turned 21 last month. I first tried alcohol when I was 15. I've been drunk quite often in my life, probably way too much considering the circumstances of the situation. Do I think that it was right of me to consume alcohol despite the fact that I was not of age? No, it was immature. But I don't regret it. My parents are well aware of everything I've done. They know I drank in high school, they know I drink now. They know that I tried smoking pot for the first time when I was 17, and they know that I don't smoke anything at all now because I learned that it hinders my athletic abilities . They know the first time I had s-e-x, and the fact that I had a fake ID. Just because these things have occurred does not make me a bad person, or them bad parents.
Quit calling others naive. The fact that you can't accept other people's voices and opinions is, by definition, naive.
I turned 21 last month. I first tried alcohol when I was 15. I've been drunk quite often in my life, probably way too much considering the circumstances of the situation. Do I think that it was right of me to consume alcohol despite the fact that I was not of age? No, it was immature. But I don't regret it. My parents are well aware of everything I've done. They know I drank in high school, they know I drink now. They know that I tried smoking pot for the first time when I was 17, and they know that I don't smoke anything at all now because I learned that it hinders my athletic abilities . They know the first time I had s-e-x, and the fact that I had a fake ID. Just because these things have occurred does not make me a bad person, or them bad parents.
Quit calling others naive. The fact that you can't accept other people's voices and opinions is, by definition, naive.
BobbleheadDoll, You keep mentioning 'underaged'. Underage in Canada is what- 17? Most parents on this board cannot imagine having a brandy with their 18 year-old hs seniors, after dinner. It's different, here. Kids leave home at 18 and are 'underage' for most of their college experience, whatever that may be.
First I am naive and now I'm a drunk who devastates lives? What's wrong with pumping gas for a living?
Get your facts straight before publicly attacking people.
Get your facts straight before publicly attacking people.
quote:Underage in Canada is what- 17?
Legal is 19 here ! My son was legal here but not in the USA ! Zero tolerance for alcohol in drivers under 21. At one time the NY State was 18 and we were at 21. I live 10 minutes from the border so it was common for teens here to go over the river to drink even under age !
We would never serve alcohol to our kids before they were legal and in fact it is against the law to do it even at home.
quote:I find it ludicrous that anyone would suggest that someone else is naive !
JH maybe you could show my quote that called you naive !That would be in direct contradiction of my quote above !
Whatever Bobblehead, I'm done. It serves no purpose in my life arguing with you. You obviously don't have the intellectual capacity, or the respectfulness, to warrant having a lengthy conversation with. I won't stoop down to the level, nor give any time of my day, to someone who directly calls me a "drunk". You are nothing more than an obnoxious moron.
You accuse me of calling you naive but know it is not true.
You accuse me of telling my personal experience and then you proceed to tell me yours.
So tell me how you really feel !
You accuse me of telling my personal experience and then you proceed to tell me yours.
So tell me how you really feel !
Def of an idiot !
"An idiot is a mentally deficient person, or someone who acts in a self-defeating or significantly counterproductive way."
"An idiot is a mentally deficient person, or someone who acts in a self-defeating or significantly counterproductive way."
quote:Originally posted by BobbleheadDoll:
Yes kids like you are idiots in my opinion but then I have have seen the young doctor who was crippled for life by an uninsured drunk teenager who pumped gas for a living !
Yes I worked in my fathers law firm and saw the devastation caused by drunks like you.
I don't know what you're drinking today BHD, but this comment to JH who gives so much here to the HSBBW, IMO warrants a suspension.
Oh no ! Suspension !
JH,
While I am gradually moving into the sunset on the HSBBW, I want to once again acknowledge you for inspiring me.
While this thread was unfolding, I was sitting in a school auditorium filled with 14 and 15 year olds, some teachers and administrators, and one presenter, who happened to be my daughter.
During the session, the items which unfolded as part of the discussion and daily life for those 14/15 year olds left me stunned, truly stunned.
Alcohol, drugs, "cutting," "sexting," bullying, downloading pornography to cell phones, suicide and suicidal thoughts, body image issues including eating disorders in young women and access to supplements/steroids for your men to get "bigger/stronger" are all part of what technology and society provides to them.
When asked how many discuss these issues with their parents, less than 20 out of over 200 said they did, or could.
When asked how many "knew" they can hide these issues from their parents and present an image of "perfect, " almost everyone of the over 200 confirmed they can and do "conceal" from, if not deceive their parents, about their exposure to these issues, possible involvement in them, and especially in discussions about the impact the issues have on them and their lives.
While this is not directly on topic for this thread, what you posted, and what I listened to with open mouthed amazement today is so needed for parents and for anyone who reads this site and has a son/daughter in or moving to HS.
Whether it is in HS, college or a college visit, they are inundated with stimulus and risk and peer pressure and danger.
Most are ill equipped to understand the short and especially long term dangers and implications.
From where I sit, thank you, JH. Your post is very close to the real world for what can happen, or too often does happen for students from from ages 14-19, and even younger.
Our son's and daughters don't need to be perfect and we cannot expect them to be so. Since I surely am not perfect, I for one won't sit in judgment on any other son or daughter, or my own.
I fully support and acknowledge your courage in speaking truthfully and in providing personal insight into real world experiences.
Alcohol, drugs, "secks",Cutting, sexting, drinking on official visits and the like, are not just happening to "everyone else's kids.
While I am gradually moving into the sunset on the HSBBW, I want to once again acknowledge you for inspiring me.
While this thread was unfolding, I was sitting in a school auditorium filled with 14 and 15 year olds, some teachers and administrators, and one presenter, who happened to be my daughter.
During the session, the items which unfolded as part of the discussion and daily life for those 14/15 year olds left me stunned, truly stunned.
Alcohol, drugs, "cutting," "sexting," bullying, downloading pornography to cell phones, suicide and suicidal thoughts, body image issues including eating disorders in young women and access to supplements/steroids for your men to get "bigger/stronger" are all part of what technology and society provides to them.
When asked how many discuss these issues with their parents, less than 20 out of over 200 said they did, or could.
When asked how many "knew" they can hide these issues from their parents and present an image of "perfect, " almost everyone of the over 200 confirmed they can and do "conceal" from, if not deceive their parents, about their exposure to these issues, possible involvement in them, and especially in discussions about the impact the issues have on them and their lives.
While this is not directly on topic for this thread, what you posted, and what I listened to with open mouthed amazement today is so needed for parents and for anyone who reads this site and has a son/daughter in or moving to HS.
Whether it is in HS, college or a college visit, they are inundated with stimulus and risk and peer pressure and danger.
Most are ill equipped to understand the short and especially long term dangers and implications.
From where I sit, thank you, JH. Your post is very close to the real world for what can happen, or too often does happen for students from from ages 14-19, and even younger.
Our son's and daughters don't need to be perfect and we cannot expect them to be so. Since I surely am not perfect, I for one won't sit in judgment on any other son or daughter, or my own.
I fully support and acknowledge your courage in speaking truthfully and in providing personal insight into real world experiences.
Alcohol, drugs, "secks",Cutting, sexting, drinking on official visits and the like, are not just happening to "everyone else's kids.
Thanks for posting that. And thanks JH for being real and bringing reality to this site on this topic.
I am surprised anyone is shocked by this. I saw lots of this in England. You enter a public washroom and there are kids shooting heroine . They follow you down the street to make sure you don't bring the Bobbies back !
I imported out of Mexico for years and the drug wars have made it too dangerous to do it anymore ! I was approached several times by the Cartel to bring drugs north ! They attached drugs to the under carriage of vehicles while unattended so I had dogs put through every time I crossed the border which was at least twice a day !
I had a relative strung out on drugs and finally jumped to his death.
I could go on for a week with disaster stories. To me it starts at home and our kids were not allowed to go to parties in HS . We got no arguement from any of them.
They related how rampant drugs and alcohol abuse was in school even in primary schools.
I imported out of Mexico for years and the drug wars have made it too dangerous to do it anymore ! I was approached several times by the Cartel to bring drugs north ! They attached drugs to the under carriage of vehicles while unattended so I had dogs put through every time I crossed the border which was at least twice a day !
I had a relative strung out on drugs and finally jumped to his death.
I could go on for a week with disaster stories. To me it starts at home and our kids were not allowed to go to parties in HS . We got no arguement from any of them.
They related how rampant drugs and alcohol abuse was in school even in primary schools.
BHD,
We get it.
You have seen everything.
Your children are those in the group who are perfect and have perfect lives in every way.
We get it!
It is everyone else with son's and daughters who you feel free to castigate as drunks and idiots, just like JH.
We get it.
You have seen everything.
Your children are those in the group who are perfect and have perfect lives in every way.
We get it!
It is everyone else with son's and daughters who you feel free to castigate as drunks and idiots, just like JH.
I expected your response so thanks for not disappointing !
quote:Originally posted by grandslamfan:
I thought this only happened in the football world, but I was wrong...
How did your son handle it?
This was the original post, if one goes back to read the entire 14 pages, one will see that much that goes on is not shocking. Begun in 2005, things haven't changed much.
No doubt that underage drinking or any drinking to excess is bad, no matter what age you are.
Look the bottom line is that I care that people understand that sons/daughters going to have to face decisions and you should prepare them for it, don't turn the other way or if you feel there is an issue you can't talk to your kids about it. It may very well be that he/she does something that is against the law, whether due to experimentation or pressure, but that doesn't make them idiots.
BHD, your son went to a small school that has a dry campus, that is really not the norm, many of the websters sons here get recruited to very big schools with very big sports programs. There is a lot of temptation out there. Some kids may not be as disciplined as yours.
The other thing is this, BHD, do you really think that anyone cares about what you did upteen years ago, your son's socialization, you and your wife dancing at bars. How great all 4 of your kids were while growing up? This is what frequently happens when you show up, not sure if you get that or not. You've taken a good topic and turned the past few pages into garbage.
JMO.
quote:BHD, you are so very lucky that your son is obviously so perfect.
I don't get the purpose of coming here and calling players out. No one is agreeing it is right, rather that this does happen.
Seems you had a part in the pages of garbage !
You went on to say I was naive.
I think this thread has run it's course.
Can someone put a knife in it and close it?
Can someone put a knife in it and close it?
quote:Originally posted by YoungGunDad:
Can someone put a knife in it and close it?
Why? It's a golden thread, if closed it will never surface again, lots of good stuff in it.
BHD, where specifically did I say you were naive? Please post what I sad specifically.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by TPM:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by YoungGunDad:
lots of good stuff in it.
[QUOTE]
With just about as much GARBAGE now.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by YoungGunDad:
lots of good stuff in it.
[QUOTE]
With just about as much GARBAGE now.
quote:Originally posted by YoungGunDad:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by TPM:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by YoungGunDad:
lots of good stuff in it.
[QUOTE]
With just about as much GARBAGE now.
Hopefully we can move forward. I had to close down the last topic that BHD got involved in with his nonsense, but I thought that it would be a shmae to close this down after 6 years. If anyone else wants to go for it.
I think the problem is we all just fall into it and get carried away with his nonsense.
I do commend the young guys for coming forward with stuff,we all probably did but too old to admit or remember.
There are a lot of idiots out there. I count myself in that group. I did a lot of things that idiots do. But I survived, at least so far. I had awesome parents. They taught me many things that I decided were not so awesome. And later realized they were right.
I have always said its better to learn from someone else's mistakes than your own. But for some reason many idiots do not learn that lesson until its too late.
We live and we learn. And we pass our wisdom on to our children and those we love and know. And we hope they learn from our mistakes and our wisdom given to them. And we pray.
If your kids have never been an idiot and you have never been an idiot I applaud you. If you have don't worry. You have plenty of company wether people admit it or not.
I have always said its better to learn from someone else's mistakes than your own. But for some reason many idiots do not learn that lesson until its too late.
We live and we learn. And we pass our wisdom on to our children and those we love and know. And we hope they learn from our mistakes and our wisdom given to them. And we pray.
If your kids have never been an idiot and you have never been an idiot I applaud you. If you have don't worry. You have plenty of company wether people admit it or not.
quote:From where I sit, thank you, JH. Your post is very close to the real world for what can happen, or too often does happen for students from from ages 14-19, and even younger.
Our son's and daughters don't need to be perfect and we cannot expect them to be so. Since I surely am not perfect, I for one won't sit in judgment on any other son or daughter, or my own.
I fully support and acknowledge your courage in speaking truthfully and in providing personal insight into real world experiences.
Alcohol, drugs, "secks",Cutting, sexting, drinking on official visits and the like, are not just
happening to "everyone else's kids.
Great post.
I don't think that Bobblehead's posts are beneficial to this discussion or that he is making any attempt to show the respect and civility that are requested in our Board Manners. I have suspended his posting privileges.
If any moderator wishes to do some cleanup of this thread, please do so, and let me know, otherwise I'll read through and do some editing.
Thanks much,
Julie
If any moderator wishes to do some cleanup of this thread, please do so, and let me know, otherwise I'll read through and do some editing.
Thanks much,
Julie
Coach May, JH - all great comments. Thanks for sharing as always.
One piece of advice I will give as this thread hopefully moves forward...
If you or your son does choose to partake in these activities (not condoning it either way, but choices are made often), one needs to be aware of the ramifications. If you get caught drinking alcohol on an official visit, I'd bet you'd be hard pressed to find a college coach who would let that offer to join his club stand. If I were a coach and some high school kid decided he'd take the time that I am paying for him to see the school and go spend it partying with a bunch of girls, I would highly question his character and his future ability to help my team.
Another big ramification. Do not...EVER...post pictures of you participating in illegal activities on the Internet. Everyone and their mother now has a Facebook, Twitter, etc. The athletic administration at my school tells us that they can find it and get us in trouble. I don't know if that's true or not, but why take the chance? If you are drinking underaged, what's the point of putting pictures up for everyone to see it? It's not "cool". I've untagged every picture of me on my Facebook that has any alcohol in it whatsoever, from a keg down to a little red cup. Current coaches/administrators see it, future employers might see it. I understand the fact that you want to share your experiences and the good times that you've had with your friends. But the consequences of these actions far outweigh the benefit.
From a parent's perspective, I can't really comment on drinking on official visits because I haven't been there yet, experiencing a child of mine going on an official (maybe one day). If I am around when a recruit is visiting my school and have a chance to meet him and his family, I hope that I present myself in a mature and respectable enough fashion that they trust that I would set a good example of how the program is run and how things go at the school. And if I am hosting a player, I will do what's right by the player. I will make sure he has fun, doesn't get in trouble, and assist him in fully experiencing the life that we lead as a team for the brief amount of time he joins us.
If you or your son does choose to partake in these activities (not condoning it either way, but choices are made often), one needs to be aware of the ramifications. If you get caught drinking alcohol on an official visit, I'd bet you'd be hard pressed to find a college coach who would let that offer to join his club stand. If I were a coach and some high school kid decided he'd take the time that I am paying for him to see the school and go spend it partying with a bunch of girls, I would highly question his character and his future ability to help my team.
Another big ramification. Do not...EVER...post pictures of you participating in illegal activities on the Internet. Everyone and their mother now has a Facebook, Twitter, etc. The athletic administration at my school tells us that they can find it and get us in trouble. I don't know if that's true or not, but why take the chance? If you are drinking underaged, what's the point of putting pictures up for everyone to see it? It's not "cool". I've untagged every picture of me on my Facebook that has any alcohol in it whatsoever, from a keg down to a little red cup. Current coaches/administrators see it, future employers might see it. I understand the fact that you want to share your experiences and the good times that you've had with your friends. But the consequences of these actions far outweigh the benefit.
From a parent's perspective, I can't really comment on drinking on official visits because I haven't been there yet, experiencing a child of mine going on an official (maybe one day). If I am around when a recruit is visiting my school and have a chance to meet him and his family, I hope that I present myself in a mature and respectable enough fashion that they trust that I would set a good example of how the program is run and how things go at the school. And if I am hosting a player, I will do what's right by the player. I will make sure he has fun, doesn't get in trouble, and assist him in fully experiencing the life that we lead as a team for the brief amount of time he joins us.
jh
coch rizzi here
let me add to your facebook etc post--
there are colleges who check these pages for all incoming students===be advised that there are ways to gain acess even if not listed as afriend
josh--touch base with me when you get a chance--we have a number of cllege select players coming your way in the fall
coch rizzi here
let me add to your facebook etc post--
there are colleges who check these pages for all incoming students===be advised that there are ways to gain acess even if not listed as afriend
josh--touch base with me when you get a chance--we have a number of cllege select players coming your way in the fall
quote:Originally posted by infielddad:
JH,
While I am gradually moving into the sunset on the HSBBW, I want to once again acknowledge you for inspiring me.
While this thread was unfolding, I was sitting in a school auditorium filled with 14 and 15 year olds, some teachers and administrators, and one presenter, who happened to be my daughter.
During the session, the items which unfolded as part of the discussion and daily life for those 14/15 year olds left me stunned, truly stunned.
Alcohol, drugs, "cutting," "sexting," bullying, downloading pornography to cell phones, suicide and suicidal thoughts, body image issues including eating disorders in young women and access to supplements/steroids for your men to get "bigger/stronger" are all part of what technology and society provides to them.
When asked how many discuss these issues with their parents, less than 20 out of over 200 said they did, or could.
When asked how many "knew" they can hide these issues from their parents and present an image of "perfect, " almost everyone of the over 200 confirmed they can and do "conceal" from, if not deceive their parents, about their exposure to these issues, possible involvement in them, and especially in discussions about the impact the issues have on them and their lives.
While this is not directly on topic for this thread, what you posted, and what I listened to with open mouthed amazement today is so needed for parents and for anyone who reads this site and has a son/daughter in or moving to HS.
Whether it is in HS, college or a college visit, they are inundated with stimulus and risk and peer pressure and danger.
Most are ill equipped to understand the short and especially long term dangers and implications.
From where I sit, thank you, JH. Your post is very close to the real world for what can happen, or too often does happen for students from from ages 14-19, and even younger.
Our son's and daughters don't need to be perfect and we cannot expect them to be so. Since I surely am not perfect, I for one won't sit in judgment on any other son or daughter, or my own.
I fully support and acknowledge your courage in speaking truthfully and in providing personal insight into real world experiences.
Alcohol, drugs, "secks",Cutting, sexting, drinking on official visits and the like, are not just happening to "everyone else's kids.
Thanks infielddad and JH for inspiring me. I have about 40 minutes with my 13 year old tonight on our way to a hitting lesson. Time to talk to Jr. about a few things.
Hope everyone has a good weekend and good luck to all that are playing.
1st overnight visit for 2013. Players assigned to Host Team Players. Attended School's Sporting Events, Supper, Brunch... But, 2013 "passed" on the extracurricular Welcoming Committee's night of attending various School Parties. His "Host" didn't, but 2013 did pass on the invitations, even though the other "Recruits" accepted & participated in the offers. 2013 chose to stay behind with another College student & his girlfriend, and played Video games instead.
It might have been the wiser choice for the Texas "Recruit" to have chosen for himself, rather than his choice having led him to ending up locked in a Dorm Room with a Team Player's girlfriend, after having one too many, and then having the Dorm Room door kicked open & escorting his naked self outside, with the door locked behind him. Ending up streaking back to his assigned Dorm for the night.
Funny, but none of the Coaching Staff seemed to notice the next day, that their strongly "recruited" Texas prospect, resembled a "Racoon"!
While every Player has to make their own decisions and live by the consequences of those choices... We weren't terribly surprised by 2013's own personal choices for himself. As, these are the same choices he makes for himself now, in his High School life. It isn't always the easiest choice to make, nor the more popular one. But, it is the one that he can live with. As, he is determined not to let anything stand in the way of his focus and longterm goals for himself.
When he has come to us, rarely, but has, with finding the right balance...during his journeys path to where he wants to get to... We just remind him that this timeline is a mere blip of time, that will soon pass. And while other Player's choices may eventually end or shorten their playing careers... just maybe, his will have helped to have extended his, as well as his future. And that the friendships in High School & College can prove to be short lived. And that it is wise to remember that one is often thought of, in respect to the company they keep.
Mind you, this is a pretty tough kid, and not a Saint, by any stretch. Just one that has obviously listened to his Coaches, older Brothers... and is trying to apply their words of wisdom, with the direction of his life.
We realize that the Jury is still out on this one, and that those temptations are just truly beginning for him. But, we as Parents, are privately proud of the choices that he seems to be making for himself, and hope that he continues to.
Let's just say...this past weekend was kind of an eye-opener for us, back in "Mayberry"!
It might have been the wiser choice for the Texas "Recruit" to have chosen for himself, rather than his choice having led him to ending up locked in a Dorm Room with a Team Player's girlfriend, after having one too many, and then having the Dorm Room door kicked open & escorting his naked self outside, with the door locked behind him. Ending up streaking back to his assigned Dorm for the night.
Funny, but none of the Coaching Staff seemed to notice the next day, that their strongly "recruited" Texas prospect, resembled a "Racoon"!
While every Player has to make their own decisions and live by the consequences of those choices... We weren't terribly surprised by 2013's own personal choices for himself. As, these are the same choices he makes for himself now, in his High School life. It isn't always the easiest choice to make, nor the more popular one. But, it is the one that he can live with. As, he is determined not to let anything stand in the way of his focus and longterm goals for himself.
When he has come to us, rarely, but has, with finding the right balance...during his journeys path to where he wants to get to... We just remind him that this timeline is a mere blip of time, that will soon pass. And while other Player's choices may eventually end or shorten their playing careers... just maybe, his will have helped to have extended his, as well as his future. And that the friendships in High School & College can prove to be short lived. And that it is wise to remember that one is often thought of, in respect to the company they keep.
Mind you, this is a pretty tough kid, and not a Saint, by any stretch. Just one that has obviously listened to his Coaches, older Brothers... and is trying to apply their words of wisdom, with the direction of his life.
We realize that the Jury is still out on this one, and that those temptations are just truly beginning for him. But, we as Parents, are privately proud of the choices that he seems to be making for himself, and hope that he continues to.
Let's just say...this past weekend was kind of an eye-opener for us, back in "Mayberry"!
I apologize if my previous post came off as sounding smug or superior. We had just returned home from the visit. I was still, a little floored.
It was an eye opener for me. I have read thru this entire thread, after its link was sent to me to read. I have found many good points as a parent just beginning this process. Some have made reference to it being a way of seeing whether a player meshes with future teammates. Others even questioned it being a test. As I mentioned in the previous post, our 16 - 2013 chose for himself to decline the invitation to party. Rules at his H.S., that even if not drinking at a party, if drinking is ongoing & you do not leave immediately...suspension from the Team, will be your consequences. That thought likely had an influence as well. But, regardless, he obviously meshed well enough with the Team, without partying / or passed some secret test by declining to party. Because the school is very interested in him playing for them.
Journey is just beginning, but we are learning!
It was an eye opener for me. I have read thru this entire thread, after its link was sent to me to read. I have found many good points as a parent just beginning this process. Some have made reference to it being a way of seeing whether a player meshes with future teammates. Others even questioned it being a test. As I mentioned in the previous post, our 16 - 2013 chose for himself to decline the invitation to party. Rules at his H.S., that even if not drinking at a party, if drinking is ongoing & you do not leave immediately...suspension from the Team, will be your consequences. That thought likely had an influence as well. But, regardless, he obviously meshed well enough with the Team, without partying / or passed some secret test by declining to party. Because the school is very interested in him playing for them.
Journey is just beginning, but we are learning!
I taught my two older sons to drink only good beer (Guiness Stout) so that if anyone at college offered that lite beer swill they would refuse because of the taste. 
quote:Originally posted by tradosaurus:
I taught my two older sons to drink only good beer (Guiness Stout) so that if anyone at college offered that lite beer swill they would refuse because of the taste.
Well, seeing that my husband was born & raised in the UK, he might just agree with you on that one!
I thought I would bump this topic since it is relevant right now.
Although my son has not gone on his official visit yet, every one of his friends that have made theirs, have been offered alcohol at parties. Some participated, some didn't. There haven’t been any negative consequences with teammates or coaches with making either decision.
I just hope my son makes his own decision and does not allow others to make it for him! I have always told my boys that I expect them to make many bad choices as they grow up, there is nothing as a parent that I can do to prevent all of them. Just make sure they are your decisions and be prepared to take responsibility for the choices you make!
Although my son has not gone on his official visit yet, every one of his friends that have made theirs, have been offered alcohol at parties. Some participated, some didn't. There haven’t been any negative consequences with teammates or coaches with making either decision.
I just hope my son makes his own decision and does not allow others to make it for him! I have always told my boys that I expect them to make many bad choices as they grow up, there is nothing as a parent that I can do to prevent all of them. Just make sure they are your decisions and be prepared to take responsibility for the choices you make!
this is the beginning of severing the chord-----thye boy 2will do what he feels is right for him----trust him
Certainly there is a lot of drinking in college, but not everyone drinks. Some who drink don't drink much - to them a beer is a beverage. Some drink a lot. Try to get drunk. Some make bad decisions while drinking and regret those decisions. I know I did.
I was raised by drinkers, "taught" to drink. It was a fact of life at home, and I adopted that life style for many years. When I gave it up I was surprised how many people don't drink, or drink very little. Honestly I thought everybody drank like I did.
Interested in breaking the cycle of alcohol abuse in our family, I became involved in a local group which works to prevent substance abuse, including underage drinking. I've learned a lot. I've learned how alcohol takes a toll on teenage brains. How the odds of developing alcohol issues latter in life are much greater the earlier a person starts drinking.
I also learned that the most influential factor in whether and how much a young person drinks is the drinking (or non drinking) of their parents. It isn't a perfect correlation, but it is a strong one. The odds of drinking issues are greatly increased if a young person has seen a parent drunk.
I'm not telling anyone how to live their lives or raise their kids. I just wish someone had told me when I was young that it was ok to NOT drink. Certainly my parents never told me that not drinking was an option. It was expected.
I've raised my son with the belief that he does not need alcohol to be happy. When he goes to college he will make his own choices. Maybe he will decide to drink. At least he knows that a person can have fun, make friends, and be successful without drinking.
My son also saw his dad's life (I'm the mom) be destroyed by alcohol. But that's another story, not mine to tell.
And, just so I make a comment on the topic of drinking on a visit, my son says that the seniors he stayed with on his overnight visit had beer in their suite, but put it away when he spent the night. No one offered him anything alcoholic to drink.
I was raised by drinkers, "taught" to drink. It was a fact of life at home, and I adopted that life style for many years. When I gave it up I was surprised how many people don't drink, or drink very little. Honestly I thought everybody drank like I did.
Interested in breaking the cycle of alcohol abuse in our family, I became involved in a local group which works to prevent substance abuse, including underage drinking. I've learned a lot. I've learned how alcohol takes a toll on teenage brains. How the odds of developing alcohol issues latter in life are much greater the earlier a person starts drinking.
I also learned that the most influential factor in whether and how much a young person drinks is the drinking (or non drinking) of their parents. It isn't a perfect correlation, but it is a strong one. The odds of drinking issues are greatly increased if a young person has seen a parent drunk.
I'm not telling anyone how to live their lives or raise their kids. I just wish someone had told me when I was young that it was ok to NOT drink. Certainly my parents never told me that not drinking was an option. It was expected.
I've raised my son with the belief that he does not need alcohol to be happy. When he goes to college he will make his own choices. Maybe he will decide to drink. At least he knows that a person can have fun, make friends, and be successful without drinking.
My son also saw his dad's life (I'm the mom) be destroyed by alcohol. But that's another story, not mine to tell.
And, just so I make a comment on the topic of drinking on a visit, my son says that the seniors he stayed with on his overnight visit had beer in their suite, but put it away when he spent the night. No one offered him anything alcoholic to drink.
A coach came to my home and when offered a drink,drank alcohol. Turned me off as a recruit. Went on a trip to a school that was recruiting me and they put me with young team members to party etc. The next day we were to fitness test so I wanted no part of it. Spoke to the coach and the put me up with a few seniors in their apt the next night. This was football though. My 2 cents.
Report the offenders to the NCAA and demand action. Providing alcohol to minors is against the law.
quote:Originally posted by jaggerz:
Report the offenders to the NCAA and demand action. Providing alcohol to minors is against the law.
Do that and there won't be many players left playing. Plus, the NCAA would not be the sanctioning body. It would be the university and local law enforcement.
quote:Originally posted by jemaz:quote:Originally posted by jaggerz:
Report the offenders to the NCAA and demand action. Providing alcohol to minors is against the law.
Do that and there won't be many players left playing. Plus, the NCAA would not be the sanctioning body. It would be the university and local law enforcement.
Local law could but would not care. Ask Penn State if the NCAA can make life rough for law breakers. The Sandusky affair was much more serious but the NCAA took action as well as law enforcement. Will there be fewer players left if this behavior is reported? Good. It bis time for adults to act like adults and quit babying these prima donnas.
These threads sometimes surprise me with some of the responses. By the time your son goes to college I would hope this has been talked about.Honestly most of the time its the kids whose parents are very strict and black and white that go off the deep end with drinking.
The teams will have parties at most schools your sons will attend.Alcohol will be there as many team members are 21.It is up to your son to be smart enough and strong enough to make good decisions.
Responsible drinking should be taught to kids these days so that When they face it they can make good choices.
I know some parents are adamantly aginst their sons drinking before they are 21,all I am saying is most do.These Freshmen that pledge to fraternities??? They drink.
Its not prima donnas only that drink.
I think parents need to be careful not to be so over the top,as many times those kids lie and drink behind their parents back.Trsut me on that.
Have an open dialogue and as Thrit says Trust your sons.If you have done a good job of talking and listening(meaning not just your opinons shoved down their throats) let kids be open and honest.
Youll learn a lot that way.And your son then has someone to talk to when and if something uncomfortable comes up.
Thats just my opinion.
The teams will have parties at most schools your sons will attend.Alcohol will be there as many team members are 21.It is up to your son to be smart enough and strong enough to make good decisions.
Responsible drinking should be taught to kids these days so that When they face it they can make good choices.
I know some parents are adamantly aginst their sons drinking before they are 21,all I am saying is most do.These Freshmen that pledge to fraternities??? They drink.
Its not prima donnas only that drink.
I think parents need to be careful not to be so over the top,as many times those kids lie and drink behind their parents back.Trsut me on that.
Have an open dialogue and as Thrit says Trust your sons.If you have done a good job of talking and listening(meaning not just your opinons shoved down their throats) let kids be open and honest.
Youll learn a lot that way.And your son then has someone to talk to when and if something uncomfortable comes up.
Thats just my opinion.
quote:Originally posted by fanofgame:
These threads sometimes surprise me with some of the responses. By the time your son goes to college I would hope this has been talked about.Honestly most of the time its the kids whose parents are very strict and black and white that go off the deep end with drinking.
The teams will have parties at most schools your sons will attend.Alcohol will be there as many team members are 21.It is up to your son to be smart enough and strong enough to make good decisions.
Responsible drinking should be taught to kids these days so that When they face it they can make good choices.
I know some parents are adamantly aginst their sons drinking before they are 21,all I am saying is most do.These Freshmen that pledge to fraternities??? They drink.
Its not prima donnas only that drink.
I think parents need to be careful not to be so over the top,as many times those kids lie and drink behind their parents back.Trsut me on that.
Have an open dialogue and as Thrit says Trust your sons.If you have done a good job of talking and listening(meaning not just your opinons shoved down their throats) let kids be open and honest.
Youll learn a lot that way.And your son then has someone to talk to when and if something uncomfortable comes up.
Thats just my opinion.
Lots of wisdom along with the voice of experience in this post.
Well there sure is a lot of winking at giving alcohol to minors on a recruiting trip.Such "wisdom" is mind boggling. Do you feel the same about a little cocaine and pot thrown in there. I am sure you could see this as " boys will be boys".
quote:Originally posted by jaggerz:
Well there sure is a lot of winking at giving alcohol to minors on a recruiting trip.Such "wisdom" is mind boggling. Do you feel the same about a little cocaine and pot thrown in there. I am sure you could see this as " boys will be boys".
What I think is that hard-line thinking tends not to produce results that are positive for anyone and that communication and understanding and experience accounts for more good than anything else.
quote:Originally posted by jemaz:quote:Originally posted by jaggerz:
Well there sure is a lot of winking at giving alcohol to minors on a recruiting trip.Such "wisdom" is mind boggling. Do you feel the same about a little cocaine and pot thrown in there. I am sure you could see this as " boys will be boys".
What I think is that hard-line thinking tends not to produce results that are positive for anyone and that communication and understanding and experience accounts for more good than anything else.
You must mean that "hard line thinking" called personal responsibility and obeying laws.
quote:Originally posted by jaggerz:quote:Originally posted by jemaz:quote:Originally posted by jaggerz:
Well there sure is a lot of winking at giving alcohol to minors on a recruiting trip.Such "wisdom" is mind boggling. Do you feel the same about a little cocaine and pot thrown in there. I am sure you could see this as " boys will be boys".
What I think is that hard-line thinking tends not to produce results that are positive for anyone and that communication and understanding and experience accounts for more good than anything else.
You must mean that "hard line thinking" called personal responsibility and obeying laws.
If only it were that simple.
No hardline thinking is not the same as personal responsibility and obeying laws.
I dont know what happened with your sons recruting trip.I am not winking at alcohol being offered to minors.What I am saying is it happens that many underage kids drink.I am not saying I agree with it or dont.
I am saying that your own son needs personal responsibility as well.And if he goes to a four year school at 18,he will most likely be exposed to drinking.Doesnt mean he has to drink.There are players that dont drink and the team doesnt care.
I think if that is a problem for your son,maybe look for a dry campus or strong Christian school that he will be surrounded by players with a conviction to not drink.
You are making it sound like these older players are forcing them to drink.I know my son as a senior really didnt hang out with frosh.The older guys kinda hung together.My son was friends with the younger guys but for one thing most frosh are in dorms without cars,and the older boys are off campus and many have their cars.
Look I told my son this.I dont want you to drink,it is against the law.But if you do,if you are stuck somewhere with no way home,call me.Take a cab,I will pay for it.Look I want my son alive and healthy.I dont want him to binge drink and be stupid.I am saying that if you can be open enough to have communication,maybe you or your son may avoid a tragedy for him or another boy.
At 22 my son and his friends are very responsible.Rules still apply.Call me,take a cab,have a designated driver.
The worse scenarios are the kids who lie to their parents and are the biggest and most stupid drinkers on the team.
Yes we want them to obey the laws,for God sakes were not stupid,careless parents.
BUT sometimes kids make mistakes,it is a unfortunante part of growing up.Just show grace when it happens so they will come to you.Maybe then tey dont get in a car,and drive,and hurt themselves or others.
Hardline is this is my way,there are no exceptions.Yes it is breaking the law to drink underage,BUT it happens.More than most of you want to believe.
If you take that as myself or Jemaz are condoning underage drinking and being suppotive of breaking the law then I guess we just agree to disagree.
I dont know what happened with your sons recruting trip.I am not winking at alcohol being offered to minors.What I am saying is it happens that many underage kids drink.I am not saying I agree with it or dont.
I am saying that your own son needs personal responsibility as well.And if he goes to a four year school at 18,he will most likely be exposed to drinking.Doesnt mean he has to drink.There are players that dont drink and the team doesnt care.
I think if that is a problem for your son,maybe look for a dry campus or strong Christian school that he will be surrounded by players with a conviction to not drink.
You are making it sound like these older players are forcing them to drink.I know my son as a senior really didnt hang out with frosh.The older guys kinda hung together.My son was friends with the younger guys but for one thing most frosh are in dorms without cars,and the older boys are off campus and many have their cars.
Look I told my son this.I dont want you to drink,it is against the law.But if you do,if you are stuck somewhere with no way home,call me.Take a cab,I will pay for it.Look I want my son alive and healthy.I dont want him to binge drink and be stupid.I am saying that if you can be open enough to have communication,maybe you or your son may avoid a tragedy for him or another boy.
At 22 my son and his friends are very responsible.Rules still apply.Call me,take a cab,have a designated driver.
The worse scenarios are the kids who lie to their parents and are the biggest and most stupid drinkers on the team.
Yes we want them to obey the laws,for God sakes were not stupid,careless parents.
BUT sometimes kids make mistakes,it is a unfortunante part of growing up.Just show grace when it happens so they will come to you.Maybe then tey dont get in a car,and drive,and hurt themselves or others.
Hardline is this is my way,there are no exceptions.Yes it is breaking the law to drink underage,BUT it happens.More than most of you want to believe.
If you take that as myself or Jemaz are condoning underage drinking and being suppotive of breaking the law then I guess we just agree to disagree.
quote:If only it were that simple.
If only!!!
quote:Originally posted by fanofgame:quote:If only it were that simple.
If only!!!
It may not be simple but it could be done ,at least to a better degree. However the administrators do not pursue the correct path because they do not want to turn away students.It is about money. What a shock! Someone suggested that I had a bad experience with my son. I did not. He turned pro out of high school. I am familiar with these issues because I lived on the edge of a college campus for 15 years and am well aware of what goes on.
if you as a parent are cofident in what you taught your player as he grew up there should be no problems
I didnt suggest you had a bad experience.I said I didnt know what type of experience you had.
I just think drinking is an aspect of most college campuses.
If your son is a recruit let the staff know ahead of time that he is to go no where that there may be a possibility of alcohol serves.Coaches can put players in situations for the weekend with specific players and let it be known that they will not be taken to any parties,frats, etc.Thats the best way to avoid it.
I just think drinking is an aspect of most college campuses.
If your son is a recruit let the staff know ahead of time that he is to go no where that there may be a possibility of alcohol serves.Coaches can put players in situations for the weekend with specific players and let it be known that they will not be taken to any parties,frats, etc.Thats the best way to avoid it.
quote:Originally posted by fanofgame:
I didnt suggest you had a bad experience.I said I didnt know what type of experience you had.
I just think drinking is an aspect of most college campuses.
If your son is a recruit let the staff know ahead of time that he is to go no where that there may be a possibility of alcohol serves.Coaches can put players in situations for the weekend with specific players and let it be known that they will not be taken to any parties,frats, etc.Thats the best way to avoid it.
It is a relative, not my son. I have close contact and much influence with him. Your suggestion makes sense. Thanks!
Sure .
Best of luck to your son.
Best of luck to your son.
quote:Originally posted by fanofgame:
Sure .
Best of luck to your son.
I said it is a relative and it is. However anyone that makes excuses for law breakers would not recognize the truth.I will not tell how he is related because he is beginning the hideous recruiting process and I do not want to have anyone jeopardize that.
My son was heavily recruited back in the day when you did not have to spend thousands to "sell yourself".
quote:Originally posted by TRhit:
if you as a parent are cofident in what you taught your player as he grew up there should be no problems
You really do live in a dream world, don't you?
Touche
This is one of life's little tests. There will be many. As parents, you've probably talked to your son before the OV as well as instilled values and judgement over the prior 16-17 years. You hope they choose wisely.
I shared my story on page 12 of this thread. My son has zero respect (to this day) for the program that put him in a very difficult situation. OV recruits were arrested, as well as baseball team members for underage drinking. In addition to the criminal charges, I'm sure the coach made sure there were some stadium stairs run during that month. Let's just say the head coach was not happy with his team leaders, and there were many apologies to the recruits and their families.
I shared my story on page 12 of this thread. My son has zero respect (to this day) for the program that put him in a very difficult situation. OV recruits were arrested, as well as baseball team members for underage drinking. In addition to the criminal charges, I'm sure the coach made sure there were some stadium stairs run during that month. Let's just say the head coach was not happy with his team leaders, and there were many apologies to the recruits and their families.
fan 21
you have an interesting thought process
you have an interesting thought process
quote:I said it is a relative and it is. However anyone that makes excuses for law breakers would not recognize the truth
I am really confused.
I know it is a relative.I said sure in response to the Thanks you posted.
I said good luck because you said your son was drafted out of HS and the season is soon to start.
Are you inferring that I am an advocate for breaking the law????
If you are that is insulting,if you arent then I am misreading your posts.
Honestly I have been on these boards since my son was 14, he is now 22.Lately I am beginning to wonder if it is even worh while to try and post a perspective different that anyone elses.
You used to be able to come on here and have really good debate,conversations.I am not finding that to be true.
Maybe that is why so many great posters of the past no longer post.
Isn't the purpose of an OV to see if you will fit in at the college?
I went on 3 visits... all were on friday nights. Why would I want to be kept in a dorm room if that isn't what kids do on campus? I would rather see what it is actually like at the school. The fact is that in one short year, you will be attending one of these schools. You will be hanging out with guys on the team on friday/saturday nights.
Not sure why you would even visit a college if they are just going to hide what life is like there.
I went on 3 visits... all were on friday nights. Why would I want to be kept in a dorm room if that isn't what kids do on campus? I would rather see what it is actually like at the school. The fact is that in one short year, you will be attending one of these schools. You will be hanging out with guys on the team on friday/saturday nights.
Not sure why you would even visit a college if they are just going to hide what life is like there.
2013LHP,
IMHO there is a vast difference between "hanging out with the guys on the team on friday/saturday nights" and bringing high school recruits to an "off-campus full blown kegger" after the head coach specifically instructed you not to 5 minutes ago. The difference is discretion and judgement.
I get your point, and when I was in school (and underage) we were discrete. "Discrete" is one of those judgement things that you learn while you are in college or possibly as a young adult. I don't want my kids living in a bubble, and I certainly would want them to experience an OV as it should be. But, I would expect a little more discretion than what we experienced in one particular case that nearly involved the police. My son went on several OVs. Alcohol was involved in almost all of them, and discretion was used in almost all of them except one. He crossed that "one" off the list real quick.
IMHO there is a vast difference between "hanging out with the guys on the team on friday/saturday nights" and bringing high school recruits to an "off-campus full blown kegger" after the head coach specifically instructed you not to 5 minutes ago. The difference is discretion and judgement.
I get your point, and when I was in school (and underage) we were discrete. "Discrete" is one of those judgement things that you learn while you are in college or possibly as a young adult. I don't want my kids living in a bubble, and I certainly would want them to experience an OV as it should be. But, I would expect a little more discretion than what we experienced in one particular case that nearly involved the police. My son went on several OVs. Alcohol was involved in almost all of them, and discretion was used in almost all of them except one. He crossed that "one" off the list real quick.
quote:Originally posted by fenwaysouth:
2013LHP,
IMHO there is a vast difference between "hanging out with the guys on the team on friday/saturday nights" and bringing high school recruits to an "off-campus full blown kegger" after the head coach specifically instructed you not to 5 minutes ago. The difference is discretion and judgement.
I get your point, and when I was in school (and underage) we were discrete. "Discrete" is one of those judgement things that you learn while you are in college or possibly as a young adult. I don't want my kids living in a bubble, and I certainly would want them to experience an OV as it should be. But, I would expect a little more discretion than what we experienced in one particular case that nearly involved the police. My son went on several OVs. Alcohol was involved in almost all of them, and discretion was used in almost all of them except one. He crossed that "one" off the list real quick.
Good post fenway. As a father of a 17 year old just starting the recruiting process, and an 18 year old at a good state college, I think that "discretion" is key. Go out and see what the team is like. Most likely some acohol will be involved, and they recruit may or may not participate. Are we really so naive as parents that we think out high-school kids are not faced with this possibility on a regular basis, (as well as other less legal options)? Most kids drink in college, so what. If the kids sip on a beer or two its not the end of the world, but putting yourself in a position to get hurt or get arrested is another problem altogether.
Some parents and kids are more strict on this issue, and that is ok. However, if your looking for the kid to play ball for a team that does not have drinkers, good luck. Your options are probably BYU and Oral Roberts. The rest have 18-22 year olds that are no longer under their parents thumbs and are free to experiment. Your only hope is that you raised them with the proper DISCRETION, (and the few times they forget--which will most likely occur--pray that nothing bad happens).
quote:Originally posted by fanofgame:quote:I said it is a relative and it is. However anyone that makes excuses for law breakers would not recognize the truth
I am really confused.
I know it is a relative.I said sure in response to the Thanks you posted.
I said good luck because you said your son was drafted out of HS and the season is soon to start.
Are you inferring that I am an advocate for breaking the law????
If you are that is insulting,if you arent then I am misreading your posts.
Honestly I have been on these boards since my son was 14, he is now 22.Lately I am beginning to wonder if it is even worh while to try and post a perspective different that anyone elses.
You used to be able to come on here and have really good debate,conversations.I am not finding that to be true.
Maybe that is why so many great posters of the past no longer post.
Sorry fan, but when you said "sure' to me, I thought that you were mocking the fact that it is a relative that I am concerned about . My son, who was drafted, has been out of pro ball for quite a while.I do not want to be specific about how this relative is related because I am afraid that someone might identify him and make things difficult.
Thanks. I don't mock people that isn't my style. I totally understand your concerns and protecting your relative.My son graduated in May and he got through it no
Problems.hope the best for your relative. Have a good 2013.
Problems.hope the best for your relative. Have a good 2013.
quote:Originally posted by fanofgame:
Thanks. I don't mock people that isn't my style. I totally understand your concerns and protecting your relative.My son graduated in May and he got through it no
Problems.hope the best for your relative. Have a good 2013.
Thanks, fanofgame, this clears up the situation.
One disadvantage about communicating this way is that you cannot always discern tone and sincerity.
My apologies again for jumping to conclusions.Hope you have a great 2013 and beyond!
I am done with the recruiting process now and Have experienced a lot with it. I had a powerhouse D3 coach (National Title a few years back) sit there and tell me on my first visit that he would have me come back closer to the spring. Sitting there at the table with my dad, he said I will be going to a party with the players and meeting a ton of people. He went on to tell me how there might be alcohol around, but that's college.
I have my reasons not to drink and will not discuss them. I have no problem, as an 18 year old young man, saying no to alcohol. The funny thing was, on the car ride home, me and my dad talked about it. He knows he raised me right and trusted me, but I was the one to decide that any college who wants to persuade me with a party hasn't done their job throughout the recruiting process and probably isn't the place for me.
Just my 2 cents
I have my reasons not to drink and will not discuss them. I have no problem, as an 18 year old young man, saying no to alcohol. The funny thing was, on the car ride home, me and my dad talked about it. He knows he raised me right and trusted me, but I was the one to decide that any college who wants to persuade me with a party hasn't done their job throughout the recruiting process and probably isn't the place for me.
Just my 2 cents
The number one drug problem in the U.S. is alcohol. It is no wonder when you read posters saying" kids will drink in college,so what".The biggest problem is not when a kid illegally drinks a beer. Many think that binge drinking is cool. Getting smashed is the goal.The road to alcoholism begins and the college administrators turn their backs because they do not want to lose students. These are the clowns that have been entrusted with the welfare of the students. They are failing the parents and kids involved. Of course, they cannot police every activity but the facts show that they do not even try. But hey, this is HIGHER education and they want that tuition money!
Some of us Jaggerz do not think drinking in moderation is a problem, even for college students. I respect your right to not drink and parent the way you wish, but your characterization of everyone that drinks in college as binge drinkers on their way to alcoholism is ridiculous. Thank God we live in America so we both have the right to live the way we like.
quote:Originally posted by jaggerz:
The number one drug problem in the U.S. is alcohol. It is no wonder when you read posters saying" kids will drink in college,so what".The biggest problem is not when a kid illegally drinks a beer. Many think that binge drinking is cool. Getting smashed is the goal.The road to alcoholism begins and the college administrators turn their backs because they do not want to lose students. These are the clowns that have been entrusted with the welfare of the students. They are failing the parents and kids involved. Of course, they cannot police every activity but the facts show that they do not even try. But hey, this is HIGHER education and they want that tuition money!
You are probably right, alcohol destroys more lives most likely than any other substance.
No one disagrees, but to say that we do not care about it and most of us think it's not a problem on college campuses, you are wrong.
This is a great topic, it began in 2005. Since that time my son also has been through the college scene and drafted, and without a doubt problems exist both scenes. And since that time, recruits are still being subjected to something that they most likely should not be, but I don't think that is going to change.
This topic is about teaching your children personal responsibility, you do your best to raise them to understand that whatever they do in their lives, good or bad, will most likely have positive or negative results. You cannot control what they do once they leave you and at 17,18 have to learn to trust they will make the right decisions.
if u trust your parenting it is case closed
[QUOTE]Originally posted by TRhit:
if u trust your parenting it is case closed[/QUOTE
Tell that to anyone that lost a loved one due to drunk driving. Good luck!
I am not suggesting that all people who drink go out and drive but the national stats say that this is a
problem that has significant consequences.
Our educational institutions are failing miserably by turning their backs as if the problem of underage drinking is not a serious problem.
I once talked to a security guard at a college about these parties and his orders were to "watch a certain area closely because that is where the inebriated students crossed".
if u trust your parenting it is case closed[/QUOTE
Tell that to anyone that lost a loved one due to drunk driving. Good luck!
I am not suggesting that all people who drink go out and drive but the national stats say that this is a
problem that has significant consequences.
Our educational institutions are failing miserably by turning their backs as if the problem of underage drinking is not a serious problem.
I once talked to a security guard at a college about these parties and his orders were to "watch a certain area closely because that is where the inebriated students crossed".
quote:Originally posted by TRhit:
you have an interesting thought process
Yup, product of my environment. lol
.
ARENT WE ALL
Our educational institutions are failing miserably by turning their backs as if the problem of underage drinking is not a serious problem.
[/QUOTE]
It's called "college" Jaggerz. These "kids" are over 18 and can fight in our wars, vote, and be tried as adults. The University's job is to educate, not to babysit. Again, I'm sure there are some schools that chaperone their students, but not many.
[/QUOTE]
It's called "college" Jaggerz. These "kids" are over 18 and can fight in our wars, vote, and be tried as adults. The University's job is to educate, not to babysit. Again, I'm sure there are some schools that chaperone their students, but not many.
quote:Originally posted by jaggerz:
Tell that to anyone that lost a loved one due to drunk driving. Good luck!
I am not suggesting that all people who drink go out and drive but the national stats say that this is a
problem that has significant consequences.
Our educational institutions are failing miserably by turning their backs as if the problem of underage drinking is not a serious problem.
I once talked to a security guard at a college about these parties and his orders were to "watch a certain area closely because that is where the inebriated students crossed".
This entire topic is about drinking on official visits and along the way has taken some twists and turns.
We all know someone who has lost a loved one to a drunk driver and I am sure we all know someone whose life was altered because he/she got caught DUI.
This, IMO has nothing to do with what goes on at a college campus or football weekend.
Not that I don't disagree, one thing I can't figure out is that while there are rules on campuses and punishments for underage drinking, all of that stuff goes out the window on football saturdays.
As posted above by fanofgame, if you do not want your college age players to not be exposed to what goes on, then you need to send them to a dry campus.
FWIW, I know a few young people my sons age who never went off to college and have problems with alcohol.
I am in agreement with Aleebaba, parents shouldn't expect anyone to babysit college students, if you do, you didn't do your job while they were in your care.
A big part in recruiting is helping your son to decide on the individuals (coaching staff) who will be helping them to be better human beings on and off the field. They will discuss every fall, their expectations in that regard and that includes alcohol as well as any other items that may interfere with the purpose in which they are there. Even then, they can't control what each individual does, and the choices they make.
Helpful Tools
In the News
A Snapshot of Annual High-Risk College Drinking Consequences
The consequences of excessive and underage drinking affect virtually all college campuses, college communities, and college students, whether they choose to drink or not.
Death: 1,825 college students between the ages of 18 and 24 die from alcohol-related unintentional injuries, including motor vehicle crashes (Hingson et al., 2009).
Injury: 599,000 students between the ages of 18 and 24 are unintentionally injured under the influence of alcohol (Hingson et al., 2009).
Assault: 696,000 students between the ages of 18 and 24 are assaulted by another student who has been drinking (Hingson et al., 2009).
Sexual Abuse: 97,000 students between the ages of 18 and 24 are victims of alcohol-related sexual assault or date rape (Hingson et al., 2009).
Unsafe ***: 400,000 students between the ages of 18 and 24 had unprotected *** and more than 100,000 students between the ages of 18 and 24 report having been too intoxicated to know if they consented to having *** (Hingson et al., 2002).
Academic Problems: About 25 percent of college students report academic consequences of their drinking including missing class, falling behind, doing poorly on exams or papers, and receiving lower grades overall (Engs et al., 1996; Presley et al., 1996a, 1996b; Wechsler et al., 2002).
NOTE; As it says in the beginning of this article, this problem affects drinkers AND non drinkers.
In the News
A Snapshot of Annual High-Risk College Drinking Consequences
The consequences of excessive and underage drinking affect virtually all college campuses, college communities, and college students, whether they choose to drink or not.
Death: 1,825 college students between the ages of 18 and 24 die from alcohol-related unintentional injuries, including motor vehicle crashes (Hingson et al., 2009).
Injury: 599,000 students between the ages of 18 and 24 are unintentionally injured under the influence of alcohol (Hingson et al., 2009).
Assault: 696,000 students between the ages of 18 and 24 are assaulted by another student who has been drinking (Hingson et al., 2009).
Sexual Abuse: 97,000 students between the ages of 18 and 24 are victims of alcohol-related sexual assault or date rape (Hingson et al., 2009).
Unsafe ***: 400,000 students between the ages of 18 and 24 had unprotected *** and more than 100,000 students between the ages of 18 and 24 report having been too intoxicated to know if they consented to having *** (Hingson et al., 2002).
Academic Problems: About 25 percent of college students report academic consequences of their drinking including missing class, falling behind, doing poorly on exams or papers, and receiving lower grades overall (Engs et al., 1996; Presley et al., 1996a, 1996b; Wechsler et al., 2002).
NOTE; As it says in the beginning of this article, this problem affects drinkers AND non drinkers.
jaggerz are u on a crusade?
quote:Originally posted by TRhit:
jaggerz are u on a crusade?
No crusade here but the institutions of higher learning should be more diligent with their students. I realize they cannot follow them around nor should they. However, they should NOT bury their heads in the sand and pretend that there is no problem.I worked for many years with young people and know that they need boundaries and guide lines.They even want adults to care but most would not admit it. A lot of this poor decision making began at home when parents were too busy with their own lives to pay attention.
When a parent sends their young person off to college they should expect that the college will do their best to make it safe for all.Obviously, no place will be perfect, but I contend that the colleges can do much better. The students have a big role in this process as well.
So what do you propose jaggerz? Kick kids out? Reintroduce an Amendment to the Constitution to ban alcohol? Freedom is messy and it allows people to screw up their lives, with alcohol and other problems, but you can't regulate everything or you get disrespect for the laws. Again, these students are adults, and I am willing to bet that these kids in college are doing way better than those that are not.
quote:Originally posted by Aleebaba:
So what do you propose jaggerz? Kick kids out? Reintroduce an Amendment to the Constitution to ban alcohol? Freedom is messy and it allows people to screw up their lives, with alcohol and other problems, but you can't regulate everything or you get disrespect for the laws. Again, these students are adults, and I am willing to bet that these kids in college are doing way better than those that are not.
Well which are they, kids or adults?
You said " Again, these students are adults, and I am willing to bet that these kids in college are doing way better than those that are not."
My point is easy to understand. Pay attention: the colleges are failing at the job of keeping students safe. PERIOD!!
jaggerz - I think you've made your point, and this thread has run it course. Please feel free to send your kids, grandkids, etc to a college that pays particular attention to the issues that are near and dear to you.
I feel I have the right to send my kids (young adults) to a college to make their own judgement about situations and life. My kids have earned their right to make their own choices in college, as they've demonstrated maturity, sound judgement & good decisions at home and in high school. Do I worry sometimes, sure. But, they have yet to disappoint me or my wife. Until they demonstrate otherwise, they have their freedom to make life choices.
I feel I have the right to send my kids (young adults) to a college to make their own judgement about situations and life. My kids have earned their right to make their own choices in college, as they've demonstrated maturity, sound judgement & good decisions at home and in high school. Do I worry sometimes, sure. But, they have yet to disappoint me or my wife. Until they demonstrate otherwise, they have their freedom to make life choices.
my son played at a majordivision one college----coach put all freshman in a non alcohol dorm for the first 6 months
Interesting thread.
Some thoughts...
The idea of a "dry campus" or "non alcohol" dorm is an absolute joke.
If you are buying that concept please call me because I have an incredible real estate investment opportunity for you. But only for a limited time!
Those distinctions are only to appease mom, dad & donor that the institution is not actively pouring drinks down students throats.
Funny how 9th & 10th graders are "mature" enough to make college commitments but then not mature enough to make their own decisions on what they put in their bodies.
Would I recommend a prospect getting blitzed on a visit? Absolutely not.
Do kids get offered drinks? Absolutely.
Are daddy and mommy's little angel actually drinking when they are away? Absolutely.
My suggestion, sit little Johnny down before he leaves for his visits and have a serious talk with him.
Binge drinking is a serious issue in this country. Especially on college campuses. I hope all of your kids are safe and responsible.
Rich
www.PlayInSchool.com
www.twitter.com/PlayInSchool
Some thoughts...
The idea of a "dry campus" or "non alcohol" dorm is an absolute joke.
If you are buying that concept please call me because I have an incredible real estate investment opportunity for you. But only for a limited time!
Those distinctions are only to appease mom, dad & donor that the institution is not actively pouring drinks down students throats.
Funny how 9th & 10th graders are "mature" enough to make college commitments but then not mature enough to make their own decisions on what they put in their bodies.
Would I recommend a prospect getting blitzed on a visit? Absolutely not.
Do kids get offered drinks? Absolutely.
Are daddy and mommy's little angel actually drinking when they are away? Absolutely.
My suggestion, sit little Johnny down before he leaves for his visits and have a serious talk with him.
Binge drinking is a serious issue in this country. Especially on college campuses. I hope all of your kids are safe and responsible.
Rich
www.PlayInSchool.com
www.twitter.com/PlayInSchool
Way to go Rich!
must be a relatiuonship here