Elephant in the room

Every D1 program has had to submit a detailed plan to their state. All programs in Florida were approved. I saw the opening plan for FAU. 25 pages and very detailed. All staff as well as each student must go through the testing process. Masks mandatory in class and on campus.

I would imagine parents will be receiving opening plans soon. As someone here said and I agree, parents have to be assured that the school is taking every precaution.

As far as sports, each coach has to submit a plan to their AD and to their conference.  I would imagine they are pretty detailed.

@smokeminside posted:

In the wake of the news that several schools have cancelled their fall sports programs I'm now beginning to wonder if sports/on-campus classes will be cancelled in the spring as well. sports in the spring.  Fauci is hopeful that there is a vaccine by the end of the year but it could take another six months after that.

If so, then what?  Campuses closed down for the whole year? A second class (2021) graduates remotely? It's entirely possible that members of the Class of 2021 will not see their classmates on campus again until their class reunions.

Is it too early to start drinking?  

Well, my guy is 21, so, no.

Way off topic.  As I've shared elsewhere he's doing his internship remotely and there is a six hour time difference between where the main office is and where we live.  On Fridays the interns celebrate a virtual happy hour at  6-ish East Coast time and they've teased him about drinking so early in his day.  Since he's been up since 2am, he figures it's okay.

@JCG posted:

Is it too early to start drinking?  

It is not! 

@adbono posted:

It is not! 

 Because it's 5 o'clock somewhere!

We are still moving forward to having face to face in two weeks. 

Son's school in the North East (CT) is coming on campus 8/24, quarantining for 2 weeks and doing remote learning while taking covid tests. They leave for Thanksgiving and don't return. They taking their last 2 weeks of finals online. I've heard the same plan from several schools.

@nycdad posted:

Son's school in the North East (CT) is coming on campus 8/24, quarantining for 2 weeks and doing remote learning while taking covid tests. They leave for Thanksgiving and don't return. They taking their last 2 weeks of finals online. I've heard the same plan from several schools.

That appears to be the plan at most schools.

The issue with the students is that the school can take every precaution and it won't matter much.  The students are going to party, hook up and there will be large outbreaks.  We are already seeing it with football teams and that is with no students on campus.  The Arizona president said they have time and that things can change but as of today they wouldn't bring students on campus.  

Does Southern New Hampshire University have online baseball too? There probably wasn’t a college more prepared for shifting to remote learning. They have 3,000 on campus and 80,000 online students. Maybe the baseball team could play Strat-O-Matic online.

@JCG posted:

Is it too early to start drinking?  

Started tonight.

So what's frightening is this — when bars in Iowa opened my daughter's friends decided to go out drinking. She is living at home and very adament about her social distancing and declined. Her roommate at school told her later that a group of about 10 went out. A week later about seven had tested positive. Come to find out the girl who organized the outing had tested positive and knew it when she got the group together.

How do you fix stupid????? And just rude?

@Iowamom23 posted:

Started tonight.

Badda bing, badda boom!

@Iowamom23 posted:

So what's frightening is this — when bars in Iowa opened my daughter's friends decided to go out drinking. She is living at home and very adament about her social distancing and declined. Her roommate at school told her later that a group of about 10 went out. A week later about seven had tested positive. Come to find out the girl who organized the outing had tested positive and knew it when she got the group together.

How do you fix stupid????? And just rude?

That's brutal.

@Iowamom23 posted:

So what's frightening is this — when bars in Iowa opened my daughter's friends decided to go out drinking. She is living at home and very adament about her social distancing and declined. Her roommate at school told her later that a group of about 10 went out. A week later about seven had tested positive. Come to find out the girl who organized the outing had tested positive and knew it when she got the group together.

How do you fix stupid????? And just rude?

Good for your daughter.  

You can't fix stupid!!!!!!!

@RJM posted:

Does Southern New Hampshire University have online baseball too? There probably wasn’t a college more prepared for shifting to remote learning. They have 3,000 on campus and 80,000 online students. Maybe the baseball team could play Strat-O-Matic online.

Sure they're prepared, but ponder this - there's a difference in cost - how do you account for that as a school/business? Traditional students/parents obviously would then only want to pay the remote learning costs. Of course they also want the access to the prof of the traditional student. The remote learning is different in that regard - it's a numbers game. If you're remote and know some number of students are added to the class you're attending have extra access but without paying more, that's a problem.

What seems to be missing is an understanding by those of us living in fear is that  "the cat is out of the bag".  Covid-19 is here and we will all eventually get it.  All leaders on this (Trump, Fauci, Pelosi, etc.) are full of bull when they they promote vaccines and testing as anything other than face saving measures for themselves.  None of them have real answers and none of them will for a long time.  

Young people should be responsible, but not to the detriment of normal life.  Their chance to meet friends, get an education, earn a living, build their future, and raise a family should not be compromised anymore.  The death rate for people under the age of 30 is about 1/10,000.  The death rate for people without pre-existing conditions in this age is effectively 0, and 80% or more don't even get symptoms.   It is true we don't know long term effects, but let me stress the most important part of that....WE DON'T KNOW.

If you are someone at risk due to age, illness, etc or interact closely with someone who is, protect yourself and your loved ones.  There will be no vaccine for a very long time, the chance of getting one before herd immunity is reached is ridiculously remote.   So myself, I will not call out the young for being young, nor will I call them stupid for being young.  They have already made too great a sacrifice for those at the other end of life and those that choose to live in fear.

What do the young and (almost) invincible owe to others?  Seems to me there is some ideal point (somewhere...) between living one's life as if your choices have no consequences for others and staying in your parents' basement for up to 2 years+.  Students on campus will interact with staff and faculty who are older.  Students will leave campus at times (if nothing else, to go home to parents who are presumably at least middle-aged).  These actions will affect others.  I don't know what the right balance is...

I do believe very strongly that the lengthy plans schools are issuing are mostly wishful thinking.  (Actually, I'd use a word less polite than "wishful thinking," but let's go with that term.)  I teach at a state U and am very familiar with my school's plans and those of a few other schools.  Most faculty I know at whatever institution--people who deal with college kids regularly--think that once students get to campus, they will do essentially whatever they want.  But the recent experience of FL, TX, and other states suggests this is also going to be true if those same kids stay home.  

I also think that colleges will almost inevitably see some kids (and maybe employees) hospitalized, a few schools will see some deaths.  Parents (and possibly students) probably won't react well to that, and a lot of finger-pointing and second-guessing will ensue. Some universities will have to seriously consider sending students home again.  (Should they?  I have almost given up having an opinion...)

@Pedaldad posted:

What seems to be missing is an understanding by those of us living in fear is that  "the cat is out of the bag".  Covid-19 is here and we will all eventually get it.  All leaders on this (Trump, Fauci, Pelosi, etc.) are full of bull when they they promote vaccines and testing as anything other than face saving measures for themselves.  None of them have real answers and none of them will for a long time.  

Young people should be responsible, but not to the detriment of normal life.  Their chance to meet friends, get an education, earn a living, build their future, and raise a family should not be compromised anymore.  The death rate for people under the age of 30 is about 1/10,000.  The death rate for people without pre-existing conditions in this age is effectively 0, and 80% or more don't even get symptoms.   It is true we don't know long term effects, but let me stress the most important part of that....WE DON'T KNOW.

If you are someone at risk due to age, illness, etc or interact closely with someone who is, protect yourself and your loved ones.  There will be no vaccine for a very long time, the chance of getting one before heard immunity is reached is ridiculously remote.   So myself, I will not call out the young for being young, nor will I call them stupid for being young.  They have already made too great a sacrifice for those at the other end of life and those that choose to live in fear.

 

Well, if we really want to "make America great again", why wouldn't we go back to doing the things Americans have always done in tough times and disasters.  When there are disasters like hurricanes, floods, wildfires, earthquakes, etc., we band together and offer help however we can.  Often, we disrupt our normal lives to lend a hand in person, even across the country.  We send financial aid, supplies, offer our genuine sympathies to those affected... whatever we can do.  When a true injustice occurs, we rally behind those affected, even if our personal lives are far removed from the injustices of those victims.  We sacrifice our own time, money, efforts on their behalf because humans care for humans, no matter how fallible we all are.  In times of war, our young take a step back from "meeting friends getting an education, earning a living..." and sacrifice for the sake of all others living in the country so that we can all preserve our liberties, build a better future, raise a family, etc.  Often, it is the ultimate sacrifice. 

This pandemic has shown clear potential to be more deadly than most wars we have participated in.  In the event of another major war, as much as I hate the idea of my kids having to step up and join the military, I sure as hell wouldn't suggest that we instead send the elderly, and those otherwise "at risk" with disease because they are more likely to die anyway.

We've covered this over and over... We do know that nearly 1/2 of US adults are "at risk".  We do know that the virus is heavily contagious and often asymptomatic.  It is a serious stretch to say that "we will eventually all get it".   That has never happened with any other pandemic.  Setting the young completely loose with little or no guidelines or restrictions will undoubtedly lead to exponentially more death.  When it comes to national emergencies, disasters, etc., I expect my young adult children to be responsible, compassionate humans and be willing to put their personal pursuits and "normal life" on hold for a time in effort to do their part in helping our community, our country, our world get through the present issue.

I'm not suggesting the country shut down economically again.  But we do need to come together and unite with reasonable proper precautions.  

I haven't posted in a while but after catching up on a few threads I can't resist. Things are looking quite bleak around the country:

* https://www.cdc.gov/coronaviru...covidview/index.html

And if you are wondering, ILI visits include anyone having influenza-like symptoms and yes, this includes those who ultimately may test positive for COVID-19. If you are sick and feel the need to visit a doctor you go. I guess not too many people feel the need to visit their doctor. While COVID-19 positive tests may be trending up, a lot of people testing positive must not feel the need to visit their doctor:

We are well below last year's baseline. I guess we should just shut down all schools and try again next year.

Absorber, so far as I can determine, public health professionals, governors and other decision makers don't consider those stats particularly relevant.  When even the governors of TX and FL feel the need to slow their states' reopening rolls, then the news ain't great.  

I started to get into data and trends, but I don't want to turn this into another one of those threads.  There are very, very few decision makers who share your views, as you know.  That doesn't prove you're wrong; but we all know this fall isn't going to proceed as though COVID-19 doesn't warrant significant policy changes at schools all over the country.   

Dunno why, but I suddenly began to miss the cherry tree we had at our old house in Northern California. We'd send the boys out back to go cherry-picking and enjoy the heck out them pretty much the whole month of June.

Guess the elephant came out and changed the focus of the conversation again

Now it’s just a room of my own. 

So now I am picturing Virginia Woolf, riding an elephant, inside a room.  Vivid image.

Chico Escuelo,

Post of the week!

For me, the elephant in the room is how absolutely pathetic our nation has responded to this threat.  Bill Gates has called the US response "embarrassing", and I agree with him.   Are we not the greatest nation on earth?  We're certainly not showing it. 

Here's the deal.   In general, older people are at risk of dying with this virus.   In general young people aren't wearing masks, spreading the virus and putting others at risk.   Something tells me nothing is going to change when they get to college in the Fall.  They are perpetuating the virus which is now putting their higher education experience at risk.   We're going around in circles, and it all comes back to younger folks not wearing masks in social settings or not taking the virus seriously.   If we want to stabilize our situation and slow this thing down in time to develop a vaccine, EVERYBODY has to wear masks, self-quarantine when needed, and social distance.   So, far young people (in general) have not shown the discipline to do this, and it is eventually coming back to bit them indirectly in the a$$ because their college experience is going to be less than it could be if this thing was under control.

JMO.    

I’d have to agree, TPM. 

Is the pachyderm writing a novel?

Or is it a letter to her favorite aunt, Mrs. Dalloway, who is lonely in Orlando, longing not only for her room at her former home in the lighthouse, hard on the banks of the River Ouse, where it meets the sea, but longing also for her three guinea pigs (Julia, Leslie, and Stella) and Hogarth, her cocker spaniel, (who, it must be said, loved nothing more than playing in the waves, flush with excitement), and, finally, also longing for the call of the utrumque valet arguer:  LUDERE PILA! IPSA VITA!!

But I digress. 

fenway, AMEN!

@fenwaysouth posted:

For me, the elephant in the room is how absolutely pathetic our nation has responded to this threat.  Bill Gates has called the US response "embarrassing", and I agree with him.   Are we not the greatest nation on earth?  We're certainly not showing it. 

Here's the deal.   In general, older people are at risk of dying with this virus.   In general young people aren't wearing masks, spreading the virus and putting others at risk.   Something tells me nothing is going to change when they get to college in the Fall.  They are perpetuating the virus which is now putting their higher education experience at risk.   We're going around in circles, and it all comes back to younger folks not wearing masks in social settings or not taking the virus seriously.   If we want to stabilize our situation and slow this thing down in time to develop a vaccine, EVERYBODY has to wear masks, self-quarantine when needed, and social distance.   So, far young people (in general) have not shown the discipline to do this, and it is eventually coming back to bit them indirectly in the a$$ because their college experience is going to be less than it could be if this thing was under control.

JMO.    

You are 100% correct on all points. College bound should get used to it, they will have to wear masks.

If the parent isn't wearing a mask, the kids won't wear the mask.  

Watching VP with Governor Abbot, he actually said, WEAR A MASK.

@smokeminside posted:

I’d have to agree, TPM. 

Is the pachyderm writing a novel?

Or is it a letter to her favorite aunt, Mrs. Dalloway, who is lonely in Orlando, longing not only for her room at her former home in the lighthouse, hard on the banks of the River Ouse, where it meets the sea, but longing also for her three guinea pigs (Julia, Leslie, and Stella) and Hogarth, her cocker spaniel, (who, it must be said, loved nothing more than playing in the waves, flush with excitement), and, finally, also longing for the call of the utrumque valet arguer:  LUDERE PILA! IPSA VITA!!

But I digress. 

Wait, wait -- Virginia Woolf, in a room of her own, with an elephant?    (But I admit, I like the classic version of Clue better than the modernist edition...)

"In America there is baseball instead of society," but this spring we had neither.  

@smokeminside posted:

I’d have to agree, TPM. 

Is the pachyderm writing a novel?

Or is it a letter to her favorite aunt, Mrs. Dalloway, who is lonely in Orlando, longing not only for her room at her former home in the lighthouse, hard on the banks of the River Ouse, where it meets the sea, but longing also for her three guinea pigs (Julia, Leslie, and Stella) and Hogarth, her cocker spaniel, (who, it must be said, loved nothing more than playing in the waves, flush with excitement), and, finally, also longing for the call of the utrumque valet arguer:  LUDERE PILA! IPSA VITA!!

But I digress. 

That's too deep for me on a Sunday afternoon!

We way too over-indexed on fear.  Fauci has been wrong almost every step of the way.  COVID is not going anywhere.  If you are at risk stay home, if not go back to your life.  We need herd immunity, lot's of data masks do or don't work.  Let these kids pursue their dreams very selfish for an older person to put unnecessary restrictions on them.  ALL schools / universities should be open in the Fall.  Stop watching the news.

@fenwaysouth posted:

For me, the elephant in the room is how absolutely pathetic our nation has responded to this threat.  Bill Gates has called the US response "embarrassing", and I agree with him.   Are we not the greatest nation on earth?  We're certainly not showing it. 

Here's the deal.   In general, older people are at risk of dying with this virus.   In general young people aren't wearing masks, spreading the virus and putting others at risk.   Something tells me nothing is going to change when they get to college in the Fall.  They are perpetuating the virus which is now putting their higher education experience at risk.   We're going around in circles, and it all comes back to younger folks not wearing masks in social settings or not taking the virus seriously.   If we want to stabilize our situation and slow this thing down in time to develop a vaccine, EVERYBODY has to wear masks, self-quarantine when needed, and social distance.   So, far young people (in general) have not shown the discipline to do this, and it is eventually coming back to bit them indirectly in the a$$ because their college experience is going to be less than it could be if this thing was under control.

JMO.    

This is a great post. I'd like to add, that while some here, in the greatest country in the world, have given up to the point they're saying "we're all going to get it", somehow in the large majority of industrialized nations the spread of the virus has been stopped or greatly slowed. So are Americans and our leaders just that selfish, ignorant, and stupid that WE can't stop a virus that 95% of the world has been able to stop? Is that how low we've sunk?

@RossGA posted:

We way too over-indexed on fear.  Fauci has been wrong almost every step of the way.  COVID is not going anywhere.  If you are at risk stay home, if not go back to your life.  We need herd immunity, lot's of data masks do or don't work.  Let these kids pursue their dreams very selfish for an older person to put unnecessary restrictions on them.  ALL schools / universities should be open in the Fall.  Stop watching the news.

RossGA, I will sign on when you show me the plan that keeps young people from encountering older folks (and those merely vulnerable, of whom their are many) in grocery and drug stores, doctor's and dentist's offices, in their homes, and other places.  Not to mention the college staff and faculty who will have to interact with them.  Young people (who are getting severely ill in some cases, too) live in the same society as the rest of us.

It's also noteworthy that medical personnel for college and professional sports teams are not taking the position that infections among those young, healthy populations aren't serious.  I ran across this tweet today from a sports columnist in Toledo:

https://mobile.twitter.com/DBr.../1276630756740272135  

Sorry to post two in a row, but I think it's worth giving the link to the Toledo Blade article and not just the author's tweet.  Here is a link from the article to an interview with an epidemiologist from Emory U.:

“There are a few things to worry about here. Even if these players don’t get sick at all, you’re still creating a vector, another way for the virus to spread, and it could spread to older coaches, older athletic staff, older family members. What if somebody goes home to visit grandma and they didn’t know they were sick because they were young and asymptomatic? You’re still creating this risk and it’s not just for the players. When you deal with an infectious disease, your personal choices are never just your personal choices.

“Also it’s important to understand that while most young people seem to recover fine, there is still a lot we don’t know about the virus. Even in asymptomatic cases, we’re starting to see lung damage and potential other long-term organ damage that didn’t make itself known immediately. There’s the possibility that these young men and women who are elite athletes in peak physical shape, even a small degradation of that could be career altering. This isn’t just, ‘Hey, nobody died. No blood, no foul.’ It’s a lot more complicated than that.”

https://www.toledoblade.com/sp.../stories/20200626081

Good article Chico thanks, and thanks for your first post.

Well, they closed down the bars in South Florida and Miami Dade and Broward, shut down the beaches for fourth of July. Our Governor is wearing a mask. I guess someone freaked out because the main goal here is to get everyone back to school.

I heard something today and I believe it. Young adults 18-34 are getting sick. But not going to get tested, they don't want to do the 14 day quarantine.

People say that they should be able to live their lives. Thats ok,  but live it responsibly,  don't do it at someone else's expense.

you all can bitch as much as you want but the ship has sailed. The world has to move forward, it is in the process of moving forward and nothing any of us say or feel it is going to stop it from moving forward. Pray you aren't dramatically effected by the 1% or most likely less who are not going to make it...simple truths.